2015 Contracts Thread

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

42 minutes ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

 

I really cbf arguing about Watts and making another thread on him but these two points i have highlighted are purely speculation, think about the players that were drafted and developed in that time and think about how many are still on the list. This is clear evidence of poor recruiting, but it is also massive evidence of poor player development that has hindered the club for the last however many years. It was the coaching team and the recruiting teams job to get the right people into the club and develop them in the best way possible and we have not started to do this until recently and the addition of Brendan McCartney will further this.

The club has a value on players, the fact that they didnt trade him was mainly due to the fact that we rate him higher than other clubs and are not willing to let him go seeing as he is a player who has played 60 games in the last 3 years. Players have deficiencies and his are highlighted by the experts on the forum more so than anyone, but still was picked for 20/22 games this year and had patches of reasonable form playing off half forward and moving through the wing. He does have to eliminate lapses of concentration from his game, because whilst people continually mention his lack of competiveness there has also been instances this year which highlight the things he can do that not many others can. The tap back on the goal line to gartlett highlighted his game awareness that not many would have. His disposal is still the best in our side and there are multiple instnaces where he is in the right spot and able to hold his ground in order to mark the footy. Yes he has clangers, but as mentioned, all players have clangers his are just highlighted more than most.

I am doing what i hate, so i will stop talking about Jack Watts, every bloody thread turns into a Watts thread and as soon as i saw that you were the recent comment i knew something would be about him but i was intrigued to read it.

T. McDonald, Tyson, Kent, Vince, Jetta, Spencer, Frost, Watts, Dawes and O. McDonald seem most important to resign and roughly in that order in my opinion.
Can see players looking to hold out til the end of the year but Tyson, Vince and Jetta will probably be made over the summer i think.

 

Well let's look at what isn't speculation, people argue he was poorly developed yet go on to make comment that he is an elite user of the footy and a great decision make under pressure. How can that be? 

People argue that Roos isn't so much a game day tactician as much as he is a team builder/builder of team culture/empowering of players. How many conversations do you you think Roos and the other coaches would have had with Watts and going when it's his turn. 

I think most are in agreeance that there's only two things missing from his game, attack in the footy and tackling. Have we now reached a point where it's no longer a coaching issue its up to him? 

I agree with most of the re-signings but not necessarily the order.

The lines about "experts" on these forums are wearing thin, we all have opinions.

 

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

2 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Well let's look at what isn't speculation, people argue he was poorly developed yet go on to make comment that he is an elite user of the footy and a great decision make under pressure. How can that be? 

People argue that Roos isn't so much a game day tactician as much as he is a team builder/builder of team culture/empowering of players. How many conversations do you you think Roos and the other coaches would have had with Watts and going when it's his turn. 

I think most are in agreeance that there's only two things missing from his game, attack in the footy and tackling. Have we now reached a point where it's no longer a coaching issue its up to him? 

I agree with most of the re-signings but not necessarily the order.

The lines about "experts" on these forums are wearing thin, we all have opinions.
(i agree, very petty of me, but most when discussing Watts dont actually discuss Watts, if that makes sense)

 

The skills that Jack Watts does have can't really be taught imo, most players eitehr have good skills or dont, sure they can get better but you can not teach a player to dispose of the football at an exceptional level. I think in an AFL system naturally a players skills will get better, but it is rare that someone whose disposal is not elite when drafted moves into this category. Players usually take safer options in order to ensure their disposal is much more likely to reach a target. Vision is much the same, coaching can teach a player where to look but cant ensure players will be there, whilst game plan can do its very best to do that its not something coached, again opinion. Some players naturally can see the play moving and where to put the football in order to best benefit the team.

did the list pretty quickly and kept finding players i wanted to re-sign

[The Backyard Charizard 1,178]

10 hours ago, H_T said:

Re: Freo ....I know they're still a genuine chance in 2016. But I get the gut feeling they may have missed their chance. Their question marks are mounting and by that I mean - Pavlich? Sandilands? Bennell? Lyon?

I should've probably clarified my earlier comment....

When I said there are only 2 teams IMHO that will win a flag before us

Hawthorn (Almost certain to win 1 of the next two)

Fremantle (Only if the unspeakable happens )

If the unspeakable does not happen... Which we all hope doesn't... and we can keep this core group together, we are a huge shot in a few years!

[whatwhat say what 19,148]

About the only thing I disagree with air conditioning's excellent post is this:

MID KPD THIRD MAN UP

MID KPD MID

MID MID MID

MID KPF MED FWD/MID

MID KPF SMALL FWD

RUCK MID MID

MID MID MID RUCK/FWD

 

i still think the first player named every week is your lock down small defender - someone who negates the dangerous small forward of the opposition.

 

Because of the nature of the position I think of it as the 'first player picked' every week.

 

In my time following the club our best have been Yeats, Steve Febey, Whelan and Jetta. Bartram could've been a ripper but his body let him down, plus we have previously had Hopgood and the godawful Kowal as well.

 

So one position Grimes could have is that role, but I personally don't think he's good enough defensively or offensively - I remember Rockliff tearing him to shreds in Neeld's first year.

 

I agree that he and Watts are skating on thin ice in terms of their careers - I certainly don't expect them to be at Melbourne in 2017 as they're both free agents at the end of next year...and the likelihood is I would let them walk too.

 

2016:

SMALL DEF (Jetta) KPD (Dunn) THIRD MAN UP (Garland)

MID (Salem) KPD (T. McDonald) MID (Melksham)

MID (Tyson) MID (N. Jones) MID (Bugg)

MID (Brayshaw) KPF (Dawes) MED FWD/MID (Kennedy)

MID (Kent) KPF (Hogan) SMALL FWD (Garlett)

RUCK (Gawn) MID (Vince) MID (Viney)

MID (Petracca) MID (Oliver) MID (vandenBerg) RUCK/FWD-DEF (Frost)

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

On 7 December 2015 at 9:59 AM, Mad_Melbourne said:

 

I really cbf arguing about Watts and making another thread on him but these two points i have highlighted are purely speculation, think about the players that were drafted and developed in that time and think about how many are still on the list. This is clear evidence of poor recruiting, but it is also massive evidence of poor player development that has hindered the club for the last however many years. It was the coaching team and the recruiting teams job to get the right people into the club and develop them in the best way possible and we have not started to do this until recently and the addition of Brendan McCartney will further this.

The club has a value on players, the fact that they didnt trade him was mainly due to the fact that we rate him higher than other clubs and are not willing to let him go seeing as he is a player who has played 60 games in the last 3 years. Players have deficiencies and his are highlighted by the experts on the forum more so than anyone, but still was picked for 20/22 games this year and had patches of reasonable form playing off half forward and moving through the wing. He does have to eliminate lapses of concentration from his game, because whilst people continually mention his lack of competiveness there has also been instances this year which highlight the things he can do that not many others can. The tap back on the goal line to gartlett highlighted his game awareness that not many would have. His disposal is still the best in our side and there are multiple instnaces where he is in the right spot and able to hold his ground in order to mark the footy. Yes he has clangers, but as mentioned, all players have clangers his are just highlighted more than most.

I am doing what i hate, so i will stop talking about Jack Watts, every bloody thread turns into a Watts thread and as soon as i saw that you were the recent comment i knew something would be about him but i was intrigued to read it.

T. McDonald, Tyson, Kent, Vince, Jetta, Spencer, Frost, Watts, Dawes and O. McDonald seem most important to resign and roughly in that order in my opinion.
Can see players looking to hold out til the end of the year but Tyson, Vince and Jetta will probably be made over the summer i think.

 

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

3 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

About the only thing I disagree with air conditioning's excellent post is this:

MID KPD THIRD MAN UP

MID KPD MID

MID MID MID

MID KPF MED FWD/MID

MID KPF SMALL FWD

RUCK MID MID

MID MID MID RUCK/FWD

 

i still think the first player named every week is your lock down small defender - someone who negates the dangerous small forward of the opposition.

 

Because of the nature of the position I think of it as the 'first player picked' every week.

 

In my time following the club our best have been Yeats, Steve Febey, Whelan and Jetta. Bartram could've been a ripper but his body let him down, plus we have previously had Hopgood and the godawful Kowal as well.

 

So one position Grimes could have is that role, but I personally don't think he's good enough defensively or offensively - I remember Rockliff tearing him to shreds in Neeld's first year.

 

I agree that he and Watts are skating on thin ice in terms of their careers - I certainly don't expect them to be at Melbourne in 2017 as they're both free agents at the end of next year...and the likelihood is I would let them walk too.

 

2016:

SMALL DEF (Jetta) KPD (Dunn) THIRD MAN UP (Garland)

MID (Salem) KPD (T. McDonald) MID (Melksham)

MID (Tyson) MID (N. Jones) MID (Bugg)

MID (Brayshaw) KPF (Dawes) MED FWD/MID (Kennedy)

MID (Kent) KPF (Hogan) SMALL FWD (Garlett)

RUCK (Gawn) MID (Vince) MID (Viney)

MID (Petracca) MID (Oliver) MID (vandenBerg) RUCK/FWD-DEF (Frost)

It's a fair point you make with regards to position of small defender. I look at what successful teams have done and that is draft mids and then play them in those defensive positions,  James Kelly, Joel Corey, Corey Enright being a great example. Do we know what position Jetta played as a junior?

[whatwhat say what 19,148]

mid.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

23 players out of contract this year, that's just about half the list. No particular order of re-signing, this is what I would do.

Vince 29 (2 years)

Tmac 22 (3-4 lock him away)

Tyson 21 (3 years)

Kent 21 (3 years)

Garlett 25 (2-3 years)

Frost 21 (2 years)

Jetta 25 (2 years)

Harmes 19 (2 years)

Oscar 19 (2 years)

White 19 (2 years)

Pedo 28 (1 year)

Spencer 25 (1 year)

 

Playing for their careers, trade/delisting awaits.

Watts 24 

Dawes 26 (injury concerns)

Grimes 25 

Trengove 24 (Injury concerns)

M Jones 27 

Terlich 25 

Newton 22

Michie 23

 

Rookies ??

King 19 

Smith 20

Hunt 19

 

[Willmoy1947 3,797]

13 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

23 players out of contract this year, that's just about half the list. No particular order of re-signing, this is what I would do.

Vince 29 (2 years)

Tmac 22 (3-4 lock him away)

Tyson 21 (3 years)

Kent 21 (3 years)

Garlett 25 (2-3 years)

Frost 21 (2 years)

Jetta 25 (2 years)

Harmes 19 (2 years)

Oscar 19 (2 years)

White 19 (2 years)

Pedo 28 (1 year)

Spencer 25 (1 year)

 

Playing for their careers, trade/delisting awaits.

Watts 24 

Dawes 26 (injury concerns)

Grimes 25 

Trengove 24 (Injury concerns)

M Jones 27 

Terlich 25 

Newton 22

Michie 23

 

Rookies ??

King 19 

Smith 20

Hunt 19

 

Bank Manager.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

1 minute ago, willmoy said:

Bank Manager.

I can only dream....

 

[jayceebee31 670]

On 8 December 2015 at 11:04 AM, Mad_Melbourne said:

The skills that Jack Watts does have can't really be taught imo, most players eitehr have good skills or dont, sure they can get better but you can not teach a player to dispose of the football at an exceptional level. I think in an AFL system naturally a players skills will get better, but it is rare that someone whose disposal is not elite when drafted moves into this category. Players usually take safer options in order to ensure their disposal is much more likely to reach a target. Vision is much the same, coaching can teach a player where to look but cant ensure players will be there, whilst game plan can do its very best to do that its not something coached, again opinion. Some players naturally can see the play moving and where to put the football in order to best benefit the team.

did the list pretty quickly and kept finding players i wanted to re-sign

MM- agre with your post....he has since come out and showed his skill,his attack on the football and tackling.Furthermotre in last weeks game read the play so well and drifted back to fill back to take a splendid saving mark....good on him, I thought he was a dud....he may get in my Norm Smith League team.

[nutbean 8,837]

On 12/7/2015 at 0:55 PM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

This coincides with Watts/Grimes/Dawes coming out of contract. My guess is those 3 currently suck 1.3 million out of the cap for little return. Watts will change clubs as I see him being dropped again throughout next season, Grimes to retire and Dawes to be given a 1 year contract worth about 100k and to be kept as depth player. The money can than go towards players that will take this club forward.

I quite enjoy when posters start talking about what a player should be paid. Are you aware of what players are paid ? Dawes to be given a one year contract for about $100K - a third round draft pick in his first year who plays 14 games earns that much.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

8 hours ago, nutbean said:

I quite enjoy when posters start talking about what a player should be paid. Are you aware of what players are paid ? Dawes to be given a one year contract for about $100K - a third round draft pick in his first year who plays 14 games earns that much.

There was a great article a few years back , I think it was on the AFL website that outlined a typical player payment pyramid for clubs, starting with the marquee player through to first year players and rookies. If I could find it I'd repost it for you.

We have 23 players out of contract at years end, Dawes being top of the list. If you can be bothered flicking back a page in the thread you'll see where I've said "I think we can agree that any figure thrown about with regards to a players contract is purely speculative ". I supported the trade for Dawes at the time. I like the way he goes about it but unfortunately his body has let him down. As we know he has recently re injured his calf and won't be available until at least round 4. He is getting paid good coin and because of injury he hasn't been able to deliver, and yes that sometines happens in professional sport. If he manages to get through this year he is not in a position to be changing clubs and we now hold all the cards if we are to offer him a new contract. Depending on the development of Hulett/The Weed this year, the condition of Dawes body and the overall management of the list I don't think it's unreasonable to offer him a heavily reduced 1 year contract. Maybe a playing/mentoring role at Casey might be on the cards. It's funny you say 14 games for a first year player because that's all he managed last year. He is no longer a priority, he's done well over the last 3 years and no doubt understands that. We need to lock away the likes of Tyson, Tmac and possibly be front loading a contract for Hogan should a deal be reached over the off season.

 

[nutbean 8,837]

19 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

There was a great article a few years back , I think it was on the AFL website that outlined a typical player payment pyramid for clubs, starting with the marquee player through to first year players and rookies. If I could find it I'd repost it for you.

We have 23 players out of contract at years end, Dawes being top of the list. If you can be bothered flicking back a page in the thread you'll see where I've said "I think we can agree that any figure thrown about with regards to a players contract is purely speculative ". I supported the trade for Dawes at the time. I like the way he goes about it but unfortunately his body has let him down. As we know he has recently re injured his calf and won't be available until at least round 4. He is getting paid good coin and because of injury he hasn't been able to deliver, and yes that sometines happens in professional sport. If he manages to get through this year he is not in a position to be changing clubs and we now hold all the cards if we are to offer him a new contract. Depending on the development of Hulett/The Weed this year, the condition of Dawes body and the overall management of the list I don't think it's unreasonable to offer him a heavily reduced 1 year contract. Maybe a playing/mentoring role at Casey might be on the cards. It's funny you say 14 games for a first year player because that's all he managed last year. He is no longer a priority, he's done well over the last 3 years and no doubt understands that. We need to lock away the likes of Tyson, Tmac and possibly be front loading a contract for Hogan should a deal be reached over the off season.

 

I agree with you everything you say  - but if he does get another year whilst it will be nowhere near what he is paid now, it won't be around $100K.

[Soidee 1,496]

I notice with interest that many players are signing new contracts regardless of pending AFLPA agreement! Also of interest that MFC players not doing the same, ie: TMAC and Watts.  Just an observation .

[olisik 4,060]

Barrett just reported Vince has been given a new contract on good coin to the end of 2017. Was due to expire this year however the dees are happy with what he has brought to the club.

Edited March 23, 2016 by olisik

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,270]

7 hours ago, Soidee said:

I notice with interest that many players are signing new contracts regardless of pending AFLPA agreement! Also of interest that MFC players not doing the same, ie: TMAC and Watts.  Just an observation .

Yeah I noticed that too.

Josh Mahoney has a heck of a job this year with Watts, Jetta, Tyson, McDonald, Garlett and Kent out of contract.

[olisik 4,060]

Concerned about Jetta the free agent. 

[Stinger 416]

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Yeah I noticed that too.

Josh Mahoney has a heck of a job this year with Watts, Jetta, Tyson, McDonald, Garlett and Kent out of contract.

I've got this foreign and exciting feeling. I'm confident all will sign... 

[dazzledavey36 48,921]

48 minutes ago, olisik said:

Concerned about Jetta the free agent. 

Would be very very surprised if Jetta left considering we gave him a 2nd chance. 

He has now settled with his young family and doing some youth indigenous work so he really now has a well balanced life then he ever has. He'll stay.

[Ted Lasso 16,874]

Kent: good mates with Hogan, loves the Dees and sees himself as a one club player, will sign

Tyson: pretty important re-signing, convinced Frost and Bugg to come to the club, i think he'll stay

Jetta: lock it in, demon for life

Watts: only leaves if we don't offer him a contract

TMAC: talking to club, looks like staying

Garlett: probably deserves more coin then i imagine he'd be getting, but who wouldn't want to crumb at Jesse Hogan's feet for the next 10 years?

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,270]

I'd be taking a bit of a punt/leap of faith and give Watts a 4 year $600k contract.

I rate his footy smarts, his skills, his reliable goal kicking, his versatility in playing different positions, his over- head marking and his passion for the club.

Looks like the penny has dropped for Watts as he's played 3 / 3 excellent pre season games and looks like he's ready to be a dominant 7 year AFL player.