Training - Monday 5th January, 2015

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,495]

How many need to fess up about Pedo that they got it wrong?

Anyone?

I'm not convinced.

He had a poor end to the year (mind you most of our players did)

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,221]

oh boy! that's like the third one today :D

Just when I thought you had nothing to offer.

It's a joke C&B calm down.

[Mad_Melbourne 873]

Things that annoy me when discussing pre seasons, people who say that missing significant time off a pre season does not hinder performance throughout the year. Anyone who has played football could understand that completing a full pre season allows for much better conditioning rather than missing 6 or so weeks of the pre season as from that point you are just trying to make up ground.With that said, it does not mean that you can not play good games as there are obviously players who are naturally better footballers, but completing a full pre season is the first step to being able to play 22 consistent games of football.

Chris Dawes is never going to be the solution to our forward problems, but rather a vital cog that will help provide the backbone of our forwardline. I think he had a par season for himself last year, and the problem was more midfield than anything else. When he was able to find one on one match ups he would win but due to the lack of depth in our forward line he was often found with two opponents. if the ball use is good into our forward line and he is able to use his workrate to move up and down the ground with a single opponent he will be able to deliver us a 40 goal season. (hopefully Hogan and Pedo/Gawn/fitz can play most of the year meaning he will get much less defensive attention)

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Things that annoy me when discussing pre seasons, people who say that missing significant time off a pre season does not hinder performance throughout the year. Anyone who has played football could understand that completing a full pre season allows for much better conditioning rather than missing 6 or so weeks of the pre season as from that point you are just trying to make up ground.With that said, it does not mean that you can not play good games as there are obviously players who are naturally better footballers, but completing a full pre season is the first step to being able to play 22 consistent games of football.

Chris Dawes is never going to be the solution to our forward problems, but rather a vital cog that will help provide the backbone of our forwardline. I think he had a par season for himself last year, and the problem was more midfield than anything else. When he was able to find one on one match ups he would win but due to the lack of depth in our forward line he was often found with two opponents. if the ball use is good into our forward line and he is able to use his workrate to move up and down the ground with a single opponent he will be able to deliver us a 40 goal season. (hopefully Hogan and Pedo/Gawn/fitz can play most of the year meaning he will get much less defensive attention)

Great post.

Agree.

[rpfc 28,079]

Things that annoy me when discussing pre seasons, people who say that missing significant time off a pre season does not hinder performance throughout the year. Anyone who has played football could understand that completing a full pre season allows for much better conditioning rather than missing 6 or so weeks of the pre season as from that point you are just trying to make up ground.With that said, it does not mean that you can not play good games as there are obviously players who are naturally better footballers, but completing a full pre season is the first step to being able to play 22 consistent games of football.

Chris Dawes is never going to be the solution to our forward problems, but rather a vital cog that will help provide the backbone of our forwardline. I think he had a par season for himself last year, and the problem was more midfield than anything else. When he was able to find one on one match ups he would win but due to the lack of depth in our forward line he was often found with two opponents. if the ball use is good into our forward line and he is able to use his workrate to move up and down the ground with a single opponent he will be able to deliver us a 40 goal season. (hopefully Hogan and Pedo/Gawn/fitz can play most of the year meaning he will get much less defensive attention)

Good post. Not much to add other than his issue of having 'brick hands' on occasion is a form question and the bigger concern would be if he never got in position to drop those marks.

He is as fit as he ever has been from seeing him at training and some renewed confidence will see him clunking marks in 2015.

[rjay 24,679]

Chris Dawes is never going to be the solution to our forward problems, but rather a vital cog that will help provide the backbone of our forwardline. I think he had a par season for himself last year, and the problem was more midfield than anything else. When he was able to find one on one match ups he would win but due to the lack of depth in our forward line he was often found with two opponents. if the ball use is good into our forward line and he is able to use his workrate to move up and down the ground with a single opponent he will be able to deliver us a 40 goal season. (hopefully Hogan and Pedo/Gawn/fitz can play most of the year meaning he will get much less defensive attention)

A big part of his problem was he led back a lot of the time and not up at the ball. He contributed to the poor delivery by not running to the right spots.

It sounds like he and Hogan are doing a lot of work on running patterns at training so hopefully this issue will be addressed.

[Mad_Melbourne 873]

A big part of his problem was he led back a lot of the time and not up at the ball. He contributed to the poor delivery by not running to the right spots.

It sounds like he and Hogan are doing a lot of work on running patterns at training so hopefully this issue will be addressed.

I think this is more a part of the solution than the problem, if you watch Hawthorn last year especially how they were able to score alot of goals was though the lead back towards the goal and the understanding that when they reached the 20-30m mark they would change direction and lead to the ball carrier allowing for much easier goals. Understanding between team mates and midfielders needs to be greater but so does disposal into the forward half

[rjay 24,679]

I think this is more a part of the solution than the problem, if you watch Hawthorn last year especially how they were able to score alot of goals was though the lead back towards the goal and the understanding that when they reached the 20-30m mark they would change direction and lead to the ball carrier allowing for much easier goals. Understanding between team mates and midfielders needs to be greater but so does disposal into the forward half

Dawes would consistently lead back and close out his space, he needs to be a lot better and provide good options. He needs to give the mids a good target.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

A big part of his problem was he led back a lot of the time and not up at the ball. He contributed to the poor delivery by not running to the right spots.

It sounds like he and Hogan are doing a lot of work on running patterns at training so hopefully this issue will be addressed.

It sounds like you're trying to find anything you can to put the blame back on Dawes.

Dawes inability to gain possession in games last year was a direct result of our delivery inside 50 and the fact that he got far more attention from opposition players. As others have said he was double teamed where possible.

And for posters thinking that he'll get to a stage where he is a deadset certainty to clunk anything that comes his way have got another thing coming. It's never been a strength of his, and he'll never have great hands. That's not to say he can't improve them over his career but jesus, do people not understand the value of him for not only our structure but the morale, direction and onfield leadership he brings?

It's the very reason we threw a lot of money at him when our club was a basketcase. Not because of his ability to clunk marks. I have no doubt he's contributed to the change we see in attitude on and off field. Not to mention the positive influence he has on every draftee that walks through the door at our club.

Edited January 5, 2015 by stevethemanjordan

[Mad_Melbourne 873]

Dawes would consistently lead back and close out his space, he needs to be a lot better and provide good options. He needs to give the mids a good target.

I get what your saying, but i think that our forward line seems like it is going to be able to work better immediately with the addition of another key post and an experienced and quick small forward.

Garlett will be able to take advantage of the space created by the 18 man team defence and the over the top option will work and this will also allow for the key forwards to push back and then lead at the ball carrier.

That said our scores will increase with more i50s and that is from the midfield which no doubt should improve this year

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

And that post was more belligerent than I have been advocating. Apologies.

you sir, are a gentleman

solid ettiquette aside, I cannot excuse a player for being 'out of form' either! I think 'out of form' , when applied to a whole season, is simply a synonym for 'carp'

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Well, reductios don't necessarily make an argument.

But more to another point altogether, I want to know what's going on with this GWS colour-themed avatar thumbnail you're now using. Does this mean you've forgiven Scully or are you just hoping that some gesture of friendship might help lure a defector or two away at the end of the year?

I have no idea what you're talking about, unless GWS stands for Gorgeous Woman Sexmachine

[FireOath 290]

I like Dawes and think he really offers something to the club. But lets face it, he doesn't need to mark all of them. We have a good crumber now!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Just when I thought you had nothing to offer.

It's a joke C&B calm down.

In your wildest dreams you cannot imagine the marvelous surprises that await you (when you get a niggle in January training) !

[ManDee 7,124]

How many need to fess up about Pedo that they got it wrong?

Anyone?

I did that during the season. I'm all fessed up. But I will repeat just for you. Sorry Pedo I was wrong.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Things that annoy me when discussing pre seasons, people who say that missing significant time off a pre season does not hinder performance throughout the year. Anyone who has played football could understand that completing a full pre season allows for much better conditioning rather than missing 6 or so weeks of the pre season as from that point you are just trying to make up ground.With that said, it does not mean that you can not play good games as there are obviously players who are naturally better footballers, but completing a full pre season is the first step to being able to play 22 consistent games of football.

I fit annoys you so, please explain it further instead of just throwing in the word 'conditioning'. OK, if you are talking about a pure midfielder missing a big stretch I can see how it affects their ability to run with their opponents in later stages of games. However, for non-midfielders, and players that cop niggles that only sideline them for a few weeks, and perhaps do not even prevent them from running, how can this argument be made?

[FireOath 290]

How is the big PDF file going?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

i think that our forward line seems like it is going to be able to work better immediately with the addition of another key post

do you think we are making an error in assigning Hogan the status of no.1 key forward before he's played a game? It is like we are calling him the new mitch clark. I am as guilty of this as everyone else BTW

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

do you think we are making an error in assigning Hogan the status of no.1 key forward before he's played a game? It is like we are calling him the new mitch clark. I am as guilty of this as everyone else BTW

Nobody but supporters will be 'assigning' that status.

He'll be played as a KPF alongside Dawes with Pedo and Gawn sharing stints also.

[daisycutter 29,436]

do you think we are making an error in assigning Hogan the status of no.1 key forward before he's played a game? It is like we are calling him the new mitch clark. I am as guilty of this as everyone else BTW

not really. we have to set up our whipping boys nice and early, set unrealistic expectations etc

all going nicely to plan. sit back and enjoy

if he succeeds we can all claim credit, if not we have a new high profile whipping boy and lots of never-ending threads

[What 18,810]

Completely off topic here but didn't want to make a new thread

Does anyone know if Roosy will be back on AFL 360 again this season? I have a feeling he wont be as they probbaly like to rotate coaches, but I hope he is

[rjay 24,679]

It sounds like you're trying to find anything you can to put the blame back on Dawes.

Dawes inability to gain possession in games last year was a direct result of our delivery inside 50 and the fact that he got far more attention from opposition players. As others have said he was double teamed where possible.

And for posters thinking that he'll get to a stage where he is a deadset certainty to clunk anything that comes his way have got another thing coming. It's never been a strength of his, and he'll never have great hands. That's not to say he can't improve them over his career but jesus, do people not understand the value of him for not only our structure but the morale, direction and onfield leadership he brings?

It's the very reason we threw a lot of money at him when our club was a basketcase. Not because of his ability to clunk marks. I have no doubt he's contributed to the change we see in attitude on and off field. Not to mention the positive influence he has on every draftee that walks through the door at our club.

No, I'm not blaming everything back on Dawes but I am having a critical look at his game.

I agree with you that he got a lot more attention and I agree that he will not take everything. No one does and it is not a strength of his anyway, I do expect him to improve in this area though and he can't afford to drop some of the sitters that he does.

I'm not convinced about his on field leadership but I would concede he is a good representative in media interviews. The trouble I see on field is that he will get stuck into teammates then make the exact same mistake. I'm particularly talking about him taking shots that he should give off to teammates in a better position.

He was brought to the club on good dollars to be a key forward, I don't wear this 2nd or 3rd forward stuff, he needs to perform and at the moment his on ground performance for whatever reason hasn't been up to scratch.

His inability to gain possession is sometimes because of poor delivery but often he contributes to the poor delivery by his own poor positioning.

[FireOath 290]

Completely off topic here but didn't want to make a new thread

Does anyone know if Roosy will be back on AFL 360 again this season? I have a feeling he wont be as they probbaly like to rotate coaches, but I hope he is

I can't answer this but always liked coming home on a Monday to see them break down the game and get his views on how the boys went.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Just as an experiment, I'd like to see Hogan at CHF with a licence to roam and Pedo at FF. Pedo can go on his long searching leads and Hogan can drop back to create the other option.

[Mad_Melbourne 873]

do you think we are making an error in assigning Hogan the status of no.1 key forward before he's played a game? It is like we are calling him the new mitch clark. I am as guilty of this as everyone else BTW

I said the addition of another key post, not the addition of no.1 key forward. Jesse Hogan will play as a key position forward, not as a flank or a small forward and Dawes will benefit from having another one in the forward 50 with him.

I fit annoys you so, please explain it further instead of just throwing in the word 'conditioning'. OK, if you are talking about a pure midfielder missing a big stretch I can see how it affects their ability to run with their opponents in later stages of games. However, for non-midfielders, and players that cop niggles that only sideline them for a few weeks, and perhaps do not even prevent them from running, how can this argument be made?

Im talking about footballers in general, they would not say that Nathan Jones has not had a full pre season because missing a week will not have a detrimental result on his pre season, but rather players who miss upwards of a month, whether it be in December or January will feel a negative impact throughout the year.

Nowdays forwards (like Dawes) need to play on defenders (like McDonald) and if they miss large amounts of pre season they are unable to work over their opponents. Whilst some players are naturally fitter than others the fact that a player misses a large chunk of pre season is clearly going to not be a benefit to their season, or why would they complete pre seasons?

In modern football players are much more dependent on fitness, rather than ability alone and it is less likely that in any position without a full pre season that players would be expected to complete a consistent 22 game season. (internal expectations rather than those of supporters such as you and I)