The Pick 23 trade - TICK!

[Toorak 108]

Impossible to say at this stage if the draft was good. Time will tell.

This year will be make or break for Watts, lets hope he proves the doubters wrong.

The main thing I hope to see this year is an injury free Hogan.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Impossible to say at this stage if the draft was good. Time will tell.

I think this point's been pretty well established. But since I can't imagine how it could have gone better, I'll say it's (provisionally) absolutely fantastic.

[Moonshadow 17,564]

You're not wrong, but if we had kept pick 23, there's some chance we would have taken ANB there anyway. If not, then at the very least he definitely would have been in the mix with a few others you'd think. So in that sense, the trade is already looking smart without a game being played.

But you're right in that time will tell how good these kids become. If they all end up delisted in 2 years then we won't be gloating too much. I don't expect that to be the case and think Frost will play lots of games this year.

I really liked the look of Hugh Goddard for us at 23, but of course he went at 21, so trading 23 worked out well retrospectively IMO.

[Tyson4Brownlow 154]

I don't disagree with the point of the opening post, but St Kilda ended up with two potential KPPs with McCartin and Goddard.

McCartin was taken at Pick 1, quite different from the discussion about the value the Saints got with pick 21 compared to the Dees at 23...

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

It doesn't matter who we picked in the draft.

It's how we develop the kids to be good AFL players.

Something we haven't been able to do for years.

If our development is spot on, we will see that the draft was brilliant.

If not then it will be the same old story.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

I don't disagree with the point of the opening post, but St Kilda ended up with two potential KPPs with McCartin and Goddard.

Pointless comparison as both players went before 23. The only way to really compare is to look at who was still there are 23 and who was picked around that pick.

GWS used pick 23 to get one of the biggest shocks of the draft, Patrick McKenna the Captain of the Aus U19's Cricket Team. Not a big background in footy. Good luck to them if their punt works but it wouldn't have been our pick.

Pick 24 was used by GWS to get Jack Steele. He was developed in their Academy and as far as I'm concerned at this stage certainly doesn't show any more than ANB. I'd be confident that most pundits would have picked ANB ahead of him.

Pick 25 North Daniel Nielson, who looks like a reasonable prospect as a 193cm defender but is going to take 3-4 yrs to develop whereas Frost already has that development and has shown he can perform at this level. I'd take Frost over Nielson any time.

Pick 26 Bulldogs Toby McLean a 179cm midfielder. We don't need any more short midfielders.

This is just the first few picks around the mark. It's no wonder several of the Phantom Drafts in the press had ANB ahead of these players. So starting with Frost who also looks better than any of them especially as a potential ready made replacement for Frawley and then getting ANB and Oscar looks like a no brainer, to the extent that every pick in the draft is a gamble, these picks look outstanding results.

There's really no point in saying we'll only know in a few years because that is irrelevant to the decisions that had to be made in the here and now in the trade period and the draft. Was the decision to make the trade the right decision at the time. Surely you'd have to say yes. Any of the single players we would have picked at 23 might be a fail but as others have said to get the three we got is spreading the risk so it's likely at least one or more will be great pick ups.

[CBDees 3,165]

Pointless comparison as both players went before 23. The only way to really compare is to look at who was still there are 23 and who was picked around that pick.

GWS used pick 23 to get one of the biggest shocks of the draft, Patrick McKenna the Captain of the Aus U19's Cricket Team. Not a big background in footy. Good luck to them if their punt works but it wouldn't have been our pick.

Pick 24 was used by GWS to get Jack Steele. He was developed in their Academy and as far as I'm concerned at this stage certainly doesn't show any more than ANB. I'd be confident that most pundits would have picked ANB ahead of him.

Pick 25 North Daniel Nielson, who looks like a reasonable prospect as a 193cm defender but is going to take 3-4 yrs to develop whereas Frost already has that development and has shown he can perform at this level. I'd take Frost over Nielson any time.

Pick 26 Bulldogs Toby McLean a 179cm midfielder. We don't need any more short midfielders.

This is just the first few picks around the mark. It's no wonder several of the Phantom Drafts in the press had ANB ahead of these players. So starting with Frost who also looks better than any of them especially as a potential ready made replacement for Frawley and then getting ANB and Oscar looks like a no brainer, to the extent that every pick in the draft is a gamble, these picks look outstanding results.

There's really no point in saying we'll only know in a few years because that is irrelevant to the decisions that had to be made in the here and now in the trade period and the draft. Was the decision to make the trade the right decision at the time. Surely you'd have to say yes. Any of the single players we would have picked at 23 might be a fail but as others have said to get the three we got is spreading the risk so it's likely at least one or more will be great pick ups.

Very well reasoned argument in support of JJH's postl. I think that at this time next year there will be very few Demonlanders with a genuine incentive to start a post criticising our recruiting department for their strategy in the 2014 trade/draft period (even with the benefit of hindsight)! Edited January 4, 2015 by CBDees

[Beats 190]

Pointless comparison as both players went before 23. The only way to really compare is to look at who was still there are 23 and who was picked around that pick.

GWS used pick 23 to get one of the biggest shocks of the draft, Patrick McKenna the Captain of the Aus U19's Cricket Team. Not a big background in footy. Good luck to them if their punt works but it wouldn't have been our pick.

Pick 24 was used by GWS to get Jack Steele. He was developed in their Academy and as far as I'm concerned at this stage certainly doesn't show any more than ANB. I'd be confident that most pundits would have picked ANB ahead of him.

Pick 25 North Daniel Nielson, who looks like a reasonable prospect as a 193cm defender but is going to take 3-4 yrs to develop whereas Frost already has that development and has shown he can perform at this level. I'd take Frost over Nielson any time.

Pick 26 Bulldogs Toby McLean a 179cm midfielder. We don't need any more short midfielders.

This is just the first few picks around the mark. It's no wonder several of the Phantom Drafts in the press had ANB ahead of these players. So starting with Frost who also looks better than any of them especially as a potential ready made replacement for Frawley and then getting ANB and Oscar looks like a no brainer, to the extent that every pick in the draft is a gamble, these picks look outstanding results.

There's really no point in saying we'll only know in a few years because that is irrelevant to the decisions that had to be made in the here and now in the trade period and the draft. Was the decision to make the trade the right decision at the time. Surely you'd have to say yes. Any of the single players we would have picked at 23 might be a fail but as others have said to get the three we got is spreading the risk so it's likely at least one or more will be great pick ups.

McKenna may not have a huge background in AFL, however he clearly has the talent - look up his 2014 stats from the Bendigo league - there's every chance we rated him at pick 23. Jack Steele was an academy pick, North Melbourne bid pick 15 on him and GWS used their next pick (pick 23) to get him.

You should look at all players taken between pick 23 and 52, as any player taken between those picks may have been next on our list. This draft was regarded as particularly even between picks 20-50.

You're basing your ratings off phantom drafts in the press? Seriously? If you're making judgments on draftees you have never seen please use credible sources. Although the Herald Sun has been getting better at Phantom's they're still terrble. Emma Quayle is one of the only journalists in main stream media who does their draft homework (she had ANB at 20). Look for Chris25, KnightMare and Paige Cardonna among others on BigFooty for quality/ in depth phantom drafts.

---

You're looking at it from a draft point of view, rather than a trade point of view.

We were going to get Frost through the PSD for free, there were whispers St Kilda may trade for him/ pick him before us in the PSD, we baulked and traded pick 23 for him. My question is why we couldn't get him to declare that he was coming to us and no-one else, guaranteeing that we could get him for free.

If pick 23 is worth Frost, 40 & 53, then surely if Frost went for free through the PSD we could have traded 23 for more than 40+53?

For the record - We may have taken the same players, even if we got Frost through the PSD and traded 23 for better picks than 40+53. I'm not suggesting that this was a bad trade, rather I'm suggesting that we could have done better.

[rpfc 28,057]

You're looking at it from a draft point of view, rather than a trade point of view.

We were going to get Frost through the PSD for free, there were whispers St Kilda may trade for him/ pick him before us in the PSD, we baulked and traded pick 23 for him. My question is why we couldn't get him to declare that he was coming to us and no-one else, guaranteeing that we could get him for free.

If pick 23 is worth Frost, 40 & 53, then surely if Frost went for free through the PSD we could have traded 23 for more than 40+53?

For the record - We may have taken the same players, even if we got Frost through the PSD and traded 23 for better picks than 40+53. I'm not suggesting that this was a bad trade, rather I'm suggesting that we could have done better.

How does that guarantee we would get him? Do you think he is not going to play for St Kilda? Do you really think they care what a promising 21 CHB says about a club he has nothing but a prospective contract with?

Ask yourself what you would want Melbourne to do if some good kid said 'don't pick me' in the PSD - did your answer involve not listening to the little half-wit?

So your hypothetical is nothing but that, but what else would you have wanted from ND23? ND40 and ND53 meant less to GWS as THEY WERE NOT GOING TO USE THEM IN THE DRAFT - so the value from that trade may be full value from ND23. You just don't know.

And we won't know the value of the trade until history judges it for us.

[jacey 333]

---

You're looking at it from a draft point of view, rather than a trade point of view.

It has to be linked as it involves draft picks.

I was one who was questioned the trade as Frost could've cost nothing and Pick 23 is valuable pick.

I was keen on nakia cokatoo as he was suppose to be around that mark or maybe goddard, laverde.

As it turns out, they were all gone by 23.

We'll never know who we would've picked up but Frost, NB, OMac is a decent return on paper.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

McKenna may not have a huge background in AFL, however he clearly has the talent - look up his 2014 stats from the Bendigo league - there's every chance we rated him at pick 23. Jack Steele was an academy pick, North Melbourne bid pick 15 on him and GWS used their next pick (pick 23) to get him.

You should look at all players taken between pick 23 and 52, as any player taken between those picks may have been next on our list. This draft was regarded as particularly even between picks 20-50.

You're basing your ratings off phantom drafts in the press? Seriously? If you're making judgments on draftees you have never seen please use credible sources. Although the Herald Sun has been getting better at Phantom's they're still terrble. Emma Quayle is one of the only journalists in main stream media who does their draft homework (she had ANB at 20). Look for Chris25, KnightMare and Paige Cardonna among others on BigFooty for quality/ in depth phantom drafts.

---

You're looking at it from a draft point of view, rather than a trade point of view.

We were going to get Frost through the PSD for free, there were whispers St Kilda may trade for him/ pick him before us in the PSD, we baulked and traded pick 23 for him. My question is why we couldn't get him to declare that he was coming to us and no-one else, guaranteeing that we could get him for free.

If pick 23 is worth Frost, 40 & 53, then surely if Frost went for free through the PSD we could have traded 23 for more than 40+53?

For the record - We may have taken the same players, even if we got Frost through the PSD and traded 23 for better picks than 40+53. I'm not suggesting that this was a bad trade, rather I'm suggesting that we could have done better.

It's interesting you should raise the issue of the Press's Phantom Drafts versus KnightMare and Paige Cardonna. I was thinking this very thing a while ago as I didn't know why so many people on here rate KM & PC so highly and refer to their comments about prospective picks and predictions. So after the draft I had a look at their Phantom Drafts versus Emma Quayle and Callum Twoomey. Emma Quayle picked 9 out of the top 10 in the correct order and 19 out of the top 20 but not all of 11-20 in the correct order. I had a look at KM and PC and they were way way off the mark in the top twenty or so picks. Not to say I won't still read the info they post as it's interesting to get any info but I won't be relying on their predictions over EQ. It's not really a bash of them as she is paid to work on this stuff full time and makes a lot of her predictions on info she gets from her recruiting contacts inside the teams. They obviously give her more than they give anyone else. So I know who I'll be relying on in the future.

I agree you should look at all picks from 23 to 52, so go for it. I don't have the time. I just picked the first few as a comparison of what actually happened.

The fact, not a theoretical, is the Saints got Membrey as a delisted free agent so they had pick 1 in the PSD live and would almost certainly have used it to get Frost. How stupid would our recruiters look now if they'd gambled on that and lost like with Hannath. A 21 yr old with a handfull of games can't say he won't go to the no 18 team because he wants to go to the no. 17 team and have the no. 18 team not take him. Just wouldn't happen. And yes, I am looking at it from the draft point of view because in the whole trade period there wasn't a better trade that went through that we could have got if we'd traded pick 23 to someone else and we would have lost Frost for sure if we didn't use the pick. Could we have used a later pick? We didnt' have one. It was a great result. Move on. KPP's with a few years of development under their belt, who are physically ready to go and have proved they can play at the level are worth gold as far as I'm concerned. Way more than a gamble on an untried 18yr old at pick 23. Frost might end up being mediocre, we don't know yet but some of his highlights are outstanding. Pick 23 without the other two might prove to be a steal. It might not but that's not the point.

[Its Time for Another 4,088]

It has to be linked as it involves draft picks.

I was one who was questioned the trade as Frost could've cost nothing and Pick 23 is valuable pick.

I was keen on nakia cokatoo as he was suppose to be around that mark or maybe goddard, laverde.

As it turns out, they were all gone by 23.

We'll never know who we would've picked up but Frost, NB, OMac is a decent return on paper.

I'm happy to put my hand up and say I was spewing when I first heard about this trade . I was also expecting us to get him in the PSD and use pick 23 in the draft but obviously the team's mail was a lot better than mine and the result now looks outstanding no matter how they turn out in the future. It sounds like it is quite possible we would have taken ANB at pick 23 anyway.

[Beats 190]

How does that guarantee we would get him? Do you think he is not going to play for St Kilda? Do you really think they care what a promising 21 CHB says about a club he has nothing but a prospective contract with? Ask yourself what you would want Melbourne to do if some good kid said 'don't pick me' in the PSD - did your answer involve not listening to the little half-wit?

So your hypothetical is nothing but that, but what else would you have wanted from ND23? ND40 and ND53 meant less to GWS as THEY WERE NOT GOING TO USE THEM IN THE DRAFT - so the value from that trade may be full value from ND23. You just don't know.

And we won't know the value of the trade until history judges it for us.

Other than Nick Stevens, how many players have declared they want to go to a club and have not actually gone there? The overwhelming weight of empirical evidence indicates that if a player (contracted or not) says I want to go to club X, they then get to club X.

The issue we had at the time was that we thought he was only going to come to us, St Kilda then got involved on the last day and the only chip we had on the table was pick 23. The admin stuffed it up, in the belief that we were the only ones in the running.

As you say, GWS possibly discounted picks they weren't going to use, we may not have been able to get anything better with pick 23, but up until we traded for him we were getting him for free in the PSD.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade or that the player we got are poo. I'm simply saying there is the possibility that we could have got a better return and that admin/ list management screwed up in the process that led to this trade.

It's interesting you should raise the issue of the Press's Phantom Drafts versus KnightMare and Paige Cardonna. I was thinking this very thing a while ago as I didn't know why so many people on here rate KM & PC so highly and refer to their comments about prospective picks and predictions. So after the draft I had a look at their Phantom Drafts versus Emma Quayle and Callum Twoomey. Emma Quayle picked 9 out of the top 10 in the correct order and 19 out of the top 20 but not all of 11-20 in the correct order. I had a look at KM and PC and they were way way off the mark in the top twenty or so picks. Not to say I won't still read the info they post as it's interesting to get any info but I won't be relying on their predictions over EQ. It's not really a bash of them as she is paid to work on this stuff full time and makes a lot of her predictions on info she gets from her recruiting contacts inside the teams. They obviously give her more than they give anyone else. So I know who I'll be relying on in the future.

I agree you should look at all picks from 23 to 52, so go for it. I don't have the time. I just picked the first few as a comparison of what actually happened.

The fact, not a theoretical, is the Saints got Membrey as a delisted free agent so they had pick 1 in the PSD live and would almost certainly have used it to get Frost. How stupid would our recruiters look now if they'd gambled on that and lost like with Hannath. A 21 yr old with a handfull of games can't say he won't go to the no 18 team because he wants to go to the no. 17 team and have the no. 18 team not take him. Just wouldn't happen. And yes, I am looking at it from the draft point of view because in the whole trade period there wasn't a better trade that went through that we could have got if we'd traded pick 23 to someone else and we would have lost Frost for sure if we didn't use the pick. Could we have used a later pick? We didnt' have one. It was a great result. Move on. KPP's with a few years of development under their belt, who are physically ready to go and have proved they can play at the level are worth gold as far as I'm concerned. Way more than a gamble on an untried 18yr old at pick 23. Frost might end up being mediocre, we don't know yet but some of his highlights are outstanding. Pick 23 without the other two might prove to be a steal. It might not but that's not the point.

RE: the phantom drafts

EQ and Callum Twomey's drafts were released the week (the day?) before the national draft, after having spoken to club recruiters to gain an idea of which players will be taken where, they are informed guesses at who each club will pick. I suppose it comes down to what definition you apply to phantom draft, whether it should be a subjective ranking of who will be the better player or whether it should be trying to guess who a club will pick.

Either way, judging a phantom draft days after it has happened is a poor way of judging its accuracy, you should look at the phantom drafts from 5+ years ago and judge the draft/ players based on exposed form.

Knightmare releases his power rankings a year or so ahead of the draft, and constantly updates it with thoughts and opinions. He has a publicly available body of work that is far greater and much more transparent than either EQ's or Twomey's and on the whole his work stacks up.

RE: the trade

A 21 yr old with a handful of games can do exactly that. See Jared Polec nominating Port Adelaide as his team of choice.

I guess my knock isn't on the trade, but why we couldn't secure Frost until a) the last day of trade week and b) with a lesser chip (refer to a) or c) outside of a trade.

[rjay 24,648]

It's interesting you should raise the issue of the Press's Phantom Drafts versus KnightMare and Paige Cardonna. I was thinking this very thing a while ago as I didn't know why so many people on here rate KM & PC so highly and refer to their comments about prospective picks and predictions. So after the draft I had a look at their Phantom Drafts versus Emma Quayle and Callum Twoomey. Emma Quayle picked 9 out of the top 10 in the correct order and 19 out of the top 20 but not all of 11-20 in the correct order. I had a look at KM and PC and they were way way off the mark in the top twenty or so picks. Not to say I won't still read the info they post as it's interesting to get any info but I won't be relying on their predictions over EQ. It's not really a bash of them as she is paid to work on this stuff full time and makes a lot of her predictions on info she gets from her recruiting contacts inside the teams. They obviously give her more than they give anyone else. So I know who I'll be relying on in the future.

I really don't care about what order players are drafted in, it's no measure of the ability of the likes of KM & PC. For EQ, being a journo it's about her sources and she is reporting so really they are in different fields.

The likes of KM & PC are giving what they think the order should be and not what it will be.

The interesting thing would be to do a comparison of drafts past to see if KM & PC are ahead of the club recruiters. Where did KM have Fyfe or Dangerfield for example.

[daisycutter 29,353]

It's interesting you should raise the issue of the Press's Phantom Drafts versus KnightMare and Paige Cardonna. I was thinking this very thing a while ago as I didn't know why so many people on here rate KM & PC so highly and refer to their comments about prospective picks and predictions. So after the draft I had a look at their Phantom Drafts versus Emma Quayle and Callum Twoomey. Emma Quayle picked 9 out of the top 10 in the correct order and 19 out of the top 20 but not all of 11-20 in the correct order. I had a look at KM and PC and they were way way off the mark in the top twenty or so picks. Not to say I won't still read the info they post as it's interesting to get any info but I won't be relying on their predictions over EQ. It's not really a bash of them as she is paid to work on this stuff full time and makes a lot of her predictions on info she gets from her recruiting contacts inside the teams. They obviously give her more than they give anyone else. So I know who I'll be relying on in the future.

I agree you should look at all picks from 23 to 52, so go for it. I don't have the time. I just picked the first few as a comparison of what actually happened.

good stuff, it, and interesting

did you look at emma's predictions as at just before the draft or much earlier? timing is all important.

if just before, then yes, she's more just the beneficiary of club leaking vis-a-vis her own astute judgement

looking at 23 to 52 becomes more problematic as the clubs shift more to needs-based rather than best-based so the actual picked results are not a good measure of player ratings

[Little Goffy 14,087]

On a side note, it seems like Melbourne have built up a pattern of not just doing well for themselves, but also offering genuine win-win deals that other clubs are quite pleased with.

- The Tyson/Kelly scenario would have been a welcome one for GWS, no doubt on that.

- The deal for Frost was sweetened with GWS' picks they were never going to use anyway, but which were a handy asset for us.

- Carlton only used one of the picks we gave them for Garlett, but considering they were looking to offloading him, possibly just delist him, they'd be happy to have moved a pick a round up the order.

- The Clark-Varcoe-Lumumbu circular trade probably made everyone happy. All three players, all three clubs, would have felt that was the best plausible result.

- Adelaide might have been sad to lose Bernie Vince, but we gave the bona fide best offer without any dodgy 'only this club please' announcements. Let's just say they'd probably rather deal with us again than a few other clubs at the moment.

- Fremantle got a pick for a player who was going to be moved on one way or another, with 54 for Michie. And it's not our fault they wanted Sylvia.

So, in these last two trade periods, we've made a lot of astute trades without ever putting anyone in a position to hate us or mock us.

[rpfc 28,057]

Other than Nick Stevens, how many players have declared they want to go to a club and have not actually gone there? The overwhelming weight of empirical evidence indicates that if a player (contracted or not) says I want to go to club X, they then get to club X.

The issue we had at the time was that we thought he was only going to come to us, St Kilda then got involved on the last day and the only chip we had on the table was pick 23. The admin stuffed it up, in the belief that we were the only ones in the running.

As you say, GWS possibly discounted picks they weren't going to use, we may not have been able to get anything better with pick 23, but up until we traded for him we were getting him for free in the PSD.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade or that the player we got are poo. I'm simply saying there is the possibility that we could have got a better return and that admin/ list management screwed up in the process that led to this trade.

History will decide that, the rest is hypothetical hyperbole.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

So, in these last two trade periods, we've made a lot of astute trades without ever putting anyone in a position to hate us or mock us.

pretty big INS

Viv Michie

Dom Tyson

Bernie Vince

Daniel Cross

Aidan Riley

Christian Salem

Jay Kennedy-Harris

James Harmes

Max King

Alex Georgiou

Sam Frost

Jeff Garlett

Heritier Lumumba

Ben Newton

Angus Brayshaw

Alex Neal-Bullen

Oscar McDonald

Christian Petracca

Billy Stretch

Aaron Vandenberg

Mitchell White

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,658]

On a side note, it seems like Melbourne have built up a pattern of not just doing well for themselves, but also offering genuine win-win deals that other clubs are quite pleased with.

- The Tyson/Kelly scenario would have been a welcome one for GWS, no doubt on that.

- The deal for Frost was sweetened with GWS' picks they were never going to use anyway, but which were a handy asset for us.

- Carlton only used one of the picks we gave them for Garlett, but considering they were looking to offloading him, possibly just delist him, they'd be happy to have moved a pick a round up the order.

- The Clark-Varcoe-Lumumbu circular trade probably made everyone happy. All three players, all three clubs, would have felt that was the best plausible result.

- Adelaide might have been sad to lose Bernie Vince, but we gave the bona fide best offer without any dodgy 'only this club please' announcements. Let's just say they'd probably rather deal with us again than a few other clubs at the moment.

- Fremantle got a pick for a player who was going to be moved on one way or another, with 54 for Michie. And it's not our fault they wanted Sylvia.

So, in these last two trade periods, we've made a lot of astute trades without ever putting anyone in a position to hate us or mock us.

Your last sentence needs "...other than Demonland posters."

[Beats 190]

History will decide that, the rest is hypothetical hyperbole.

I love how dismissive you are. Let me summarise:

Me: why couldn't we get him to declare that he would come to us and only us?

RPFC: it doesn't work that way.

Me: It does work that way. Other than Nick Stevens can you name a player who has said I want to go to club X and not got there?

RPFC: Hypothetical Hyperbole.

You must be a hit at parties:

Me: I got a new puppy!

RPFC: don't love it, it will die.

[Crompton's the man 659]

Me: I got a new puppy!

RPFC: don't love it, it will die.

More likely it's going to run away and find a new house to live in first

[rpfc 28,057]

I love how dismissive you are. Let me summarise:

Me: why couldn't we get him to declare that he would come to us and only us?

RPFC: it doesn't work that way.

Me: It does work that way. Other than Nick Stevens can you name a player who has said I want to go to club X and not got there?

RPFC: Hypothetical Hyperbole.

Here are my real answers:

Me: why couldn't we get him to declare that he would come to us and only us?

How does that guarantee we would get him? Do you think he is not going to play for St Kilda? Do you really think they care what a promising 21 CHB says about a club he has nothing but a prospective contract with?

Ask yourself what you would want Melbourne to do if some good kid said 'don't pick me' in the PSD - did your answer involve not listening to the little half-wit?

As for history - Nick Stevens did go to a club that didn't let him decide where he played so trying to erase that from history is a bit rich... Jack Hannath was training with us and picked by Fremantle, he didn't have the gall to limit his future by playing games with other clubs and demanding he only go to one club. Jade Rawlings will tell you clubs hold the cards when it comes to these decisions.

[rjay 24,648]

The issue we had at the time was that we thought he was only going to come to us, St Kilda then got involved on the last day and the only chip we had on the table was pick 23. The admin stuffed it up, in the belief that we were the only ones in the running.

The only issue I had with trade week was how St Kilda ended up with pick 21 for Stanley. I think we undersold Clark...but then again the club may know a little more than we do.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

The only issue I had with trade week was how St Kilda ended up with pick 21 for Stanley. I think we undersold Clark...but then again the club may know a little more than we do.

yes we undersold him but we had no choice, we couldn't keep him and not many wanted to chance him, we had to take what we could get really

that's why the man is a dirty pig

[Beats 190]

Here are my real answers:

Me: why couldn't we get him to declare that he would come to us and only us?

As for history - Nick Stevens did go to a club that didn't let him decide where he played so trying to erase that from history is a bit rich... Jack Hannath was training with us and picked by Fremantle, he didn't have the gall to limit his future by playing games with other clubs and demanding he only go to one club. Jade Rawlings will tell you clubs hold the cards when it comes to these decisions.

Thankyou for a proper response.

Not dismissing the Nick Stevens scenario, but it is the exception, rather than the rule.

Jack Hannath is a different scenario all together. We were going to take him as a rookie, Freo took him in the PSD. We had no PSD spots so could not match the better offer/ contract/ opportunity given to him by Freo at the time.

Jade Rawlings might say that clubs hold all the cards, but why would you pay stupid money to someone who is going to turn up and do the job really half arsed? Also, this - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-15/chads-giant-refusal - Apparently clubs do listen to the little half-wits when they say those sort of things.

Just to highlight examples of players saying they will only play for a certain team from recent history:

Beams (contracted) says he wants to go to Brisbane, he goes to Brisbane.

Lumumba (contracted) says he wants to go to Melbourne, he ends up at Melbourne.

Jonathan O’rourke (uncontracted) says he wants to go to Hawthorn, he ends up at Hawthorn.

Mitch Clark (*contracted*) says he wants to go to Geelong, he ends up at Geelong.

Paddy Ryder (contracted) says he wants to go to Port, he ends up at Port.

Etc. etc.

Granted, they were all trades, but the majority of these sort of cases are ‘unders’ for the club giving the player up.

Free agency effectively rules out an uncontracted player going to a club other than their club of choice and contracted players generally get traded to the club of their choice. Prior to the last few years you have players like Luke Ball (ND pick 30) and Kurt Tippett (PSD pick 8) being overlooked by quite a number of teams to get to where they want to go.

Having written the above I'm now thinking we were relying on another trade going through (Trengove) that would have given us a late 2nd rounder to trade for Frost+40/53. (As you pointed out, they weren't using 40 or 53 so as long as they got something earlier than 40 they would have done the trade).