1. On p 115 of this thread post 2866 references an article written by him arguing James Hird will coach on regardless of the Tribunal's decision. This was the first sign that he had changed his extremely strong position that Hird had to go. For 2 years he had written articles arguing vehemently for Hird to resign or be sacked.

2. On his segment on KB's SEN program he has continued with the Hird is safe narrative. He may be stating the inevitable but the Patrick Smith that had argued strenuously for what is right and good had backed off. Last year's Patrick Smith would have said something like 'EFC and AFL may want Hird to coach on but that just ain't on folks'! No way Jose!! And, this is why!

3. Bearing in mind that Smith was an Essendon supporter until about 5 years ago when he was so disgusted with the cloak and dagger way EFC sacked Knights and appointed Hird, he refused to have anything to do with them thereafter. EFC club officials (CEO, I think) have been talking with him and he has said he is open to invitations to the club.

So, in my book he has gone over to the other side. I try not to have personal opinions of journos so assess their articles on a case by case basis. Throughout the whole EFC thing he and Caro have stood out (Gerard Whately gave in at the half-way mark) IMO as the only journos who have maintained the rage against the morality of what happened.

I have lost much respect for Patrick and Gerard on their altered positions. Why have their positions altered? I don't know. Political expediency/protecting their jobs comes to mind. Caro now appears to be the only hope of getting some rational discussion of the Tribunal outcome. But she has been very quiet so I'm not holding out hope of balanced journalism. BTW I believe EFC have also met with Caro to 'discuss her position'.

I fear now that journos either write/say positive stuff or say/write nothing at all to not rock the EFC/HIrd boat. I hope my assessment is wrong because not only is freedom of the press important so is an independent press. I fear the latter is all but gone on the EFC doping saga. That may well turn out to be the 'darkest day in sport'.

He, I don't believe, is arguing for that. IN fact the opposite. He is arguing what is likely to be true. If they haven't got rid of him now then it seems unlikely they will capitulate now.

He, I don't believe, is arguing for that. IN fact the opposite. He is arguing what is likely to be true. If they haven't got rid of him now then it seems unlikely they will capitulate now.

My point was that he didn't refute that EFC position. Quote from my post: He may be stating the inevitable but the Patrick Smith that had argued strenuously for what is right and good had backed off. Last year's Patrick Smith would have said something like 'EFC and AFL may want Hird to coach on but that just ain't on folks'! No way Jose!! And, this is why!

By choosing to not continue with his Hird must go narrative, vehemently or otherwise, Smith seems to have considerably softened his public position and in my book it does not bode well for a balanced media discussion of the Tribunal outcome.

Yeah my impression was he was being facetious too.

Heard a little rumour that the afl wanted to give asada money to help them out with resources but couldnt as obviously would be seen as a conflict.

Still has to be 2 year bans. Anything less is unacceptable.

Patrick Smith is a realist. He hasn't jumped

Hird will coach on regardless of the decision.

He shouldn't, but i bet he does.

Patrick Smith is a realist. He hasn't jumped

Hird will coach on regardless of the decision.

He shouldn't, but i bet he does.

Yes Little paved the way for that when he put out the position that even if the players are found guilty, Turd can stay on "if the fans want him too".

Patrick Smith is a realist. He hasn't jumped

Hird will coach on regardless of the decision.

He shouldn't, but i bet he does.

don't be so sure

If only club has say >>> yes

If only AFL has input >>> yes

If WADA get a shot>>>> life ban

We wait

Patrick Smith is a realist. He hasn't jumped

Hird will coach on regardless of the decision.

He shouldn't, but i bet he does.

I simply can't see a circumstance where players cop significant penalties and Hird is allowed to coach on. Would make an even greater mockery of an already ridiculous situation, club and competition.

I simply can't see a circumstance where players cop significant penalties and Hird is allowed to coach on. Would make an even greater mockery of an already ridiculous situation, club and competition.

True but there's also the law of contracts which might force the Bombers to make the difficult decision between retaining him or making a crippling pay out (a situation they have no doubt already considered). Therefore, there's a strong chance that even if the players are sanctioned, Hird will stay - especially if the penalty turns out to be the farcical 3 to 6 weeks some are suggesting. If the bulk of the players do the genuine time for a doping breach of this nature, both Essendon and Hird are going to look even more stupid over this than they do already.

Then of course, there's always the possibility of infraction notices being served against Hird and other Bomber officials which could solve the problem.

So what have we got now 9 days to go.

It will be the longest 9 days in the clubs existence.

I'd like to think that all this publicity is just going on because once the guilty verdict is passed, what are they going to write about.

They will have to go about writing about football games.

Novel idea me thinks.

I simply can't see a circumstance where players cop significant penalties and Hird is allowed to coach on. Would make an even greater mockery of an already ridiculous situation, club and competition.

As they say in wrestling, "get ready to rumble".

True but there's also the law of contracts which might force the Bombers to make the difficult decision between retaining him or making a crippling pay out (a situation they have no doubt already considered). Therefore, there's a strong chance that even if the players are sanctioned, Hird will stay -especially if the penalty turns out to be the farcical 3 to 6 weeks some are suggesting. .....

If he had a shred of conscience he'd resign if the players are found guilty, regardless of the penalty. Oh, wait....

True but there's also theI law of contracts which might force the Bombers to make the difficult decision between retaining him or making a crippling pay out (a situation they have no doubt already considered). ..

.

I know I have mentioned it twice already, but a reliable source (AFL employee - significant position) told me last December that Hird's payout figure is $6 mil.

I know I have mentioned it twice already, but a reliable source (AFL employee - significant position) told me last December that Hird's payout figure is $6 mil.

Yeah but surely there is no pay out figure for being fired for absolute total failure of your duty of care for your employees. Subjecting your staff to an "experimental cocktail of substances" or whatever the quote from Ziggy was is grounds for instant dismissal in any form of employment and any court should back the dismissal if he chose to fight out the payout

Im sure Worksafe V are waiting to pay out on Golden Boy !!

Yeah but surely there is no pay out figure for being fired for absolute total failure of your duty of care for your employees. Subjecting your staff to an "experimental cocktail of substances" or whatever the quote from Ziggy was is grounds for instant dismissal in any form of employment and any court should back the dismissal if he chose to fight out the payout

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Hird's contract was renewed after the Switkowski Report was published. The latest contract would no doubt contain terms and conditions relating to each party's right to terminate but in the absence of any specific references to the 2011/2 doping saga, Hird would most likely maintain that the club was aware of his role in the regime at the time of contracting him. Unless there was some major non disclosure by Hird at the time, the club could be forced to compensate an amount very close to the full measure of loss and damage. Let's see what the Tribunal says and what ASADA does next.

don't be so sure

If only club has say >>> yes

If only AFL has input >>> yes

If WADA get a shot>>>> life ban

We wait

I wonder whether Indonesia is still on next years holidays?

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Hird's contract was renewed after the Switkowski Report was published. The latest contract would no doubt contain terms and conditions relating to each party's right to terminate but in the absence of any specific references to the 2011/2 doping saga, Hird would most likely maintain that the club was aware of his role in the regime at the time of contracting him. Unless there was some major non disclosure by Hird at the time, the club could be forced to compensate an amount very close to the full measure of loss and damage. Let's see what the Tribunal says and what ASADA does next.

I would like to see sponsors withdraw. They should be able to break their contracts if the decision of the tribunal says the players likely were given illegal drugs.

If the club won't do it themselves the sponsors should try to save their own skin.

Bombers supporters telling me today that they'll finish top four and that at most players will cop three weeks.

I simply can't see a circumstance where players cop significant penalties and Hird is allowed to coach on. Would make an even greater mockery of an already ridiculous situation, club and competition.

Hird went to court on behalf of the players...In his eyes he tried to do the best for his boys

He is still standing...It is an appalling situation i agree..But i think Hird is going to keep standing regardless of what the findings are of the 34 players

To the Essendon faithful he is now a martyr.

If it turns out differently i will be very suprised.

I think that is what Pat Smith was writing about last week.

He is a journalist who reports, yes he has his opinions that are usually stated very well, but his ultimate job is to report what is happening.

——"We Big Fish here in Little Pond
Conduct affairs with magic wands!"

——"Beyond the Pond, where none can see,
Tsunami's wrath bears down on thee."

Have you heard Paul Kelly's song Little Kings, seems appropriate

'in the land of the little kings justice don't mean a thing,

and everywhere the little kings are getting away with murder"

Boy I hope they don't get away with it,....

Please don't put the great man in the same thread as that deluded fellow Hird. PK is a national treasure.

Agreed cards 13, just thought the song appropriate