LOL!!! Standing up for your buddy. How cute. Keep it up warriors.

I won't bother, your wit is and intellect is far too superior to challenge...

I think we just need to have universal agreement from every Melbourne supporter that we stuffed this up massively so we never have to talk about it again.

I think we just need to stop with the self-flagellation. I don't understand why Melbourne supporters want to inflict mental anguish on themselves by reviewing this over and over and over.

Including most here ... Poll - Wines or Toumpas

Toumpas was rated no.2 for most of the 2012 season and was always tipped to go in the top 5 ... Wines, on the other hand was tipped to not get picked up in the top 5. And guess what? That's what happened.

It's akin to passing on Petracca and picking someone else outside of the top 5 "popular" picks.

By the way, Robbie Gray went at pick 55 in the 2006 draft ... who do we blame there and where do we start?

That can't be right. From what I've read, every single person on here claimed Wines would be a star before he was drafted and that we should take him.

They are the same that are shocked when the draft doesn't work out that each player taken is slightly better than the next.

The argument must centre on the thinking at the time - none of this hindsight rubbish.

Poll - Wines or Toumpas

WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - JIMMY TOUMPAS

In all manner of fairness, those who believe we "should have" picked Wines have an obligation to read the 2 threads I've posted above.

When you do, get back to us with your thoughts. However, I don't expect any of the incessant "moaners" to read those threads because (A) They've made up your mind already and (B) They won't change their mind because that will mean they'd have to stop moaning.

The facts and the data was all in at the time and for our club to pick Wines over Toumpas would have gone against the conventional thinking at the time. Now, because the draft is flawed anyway, it's all rather academic isn't it?

Oh, and by the way, Robbie Gray (who was arguably best on ground last night) went at pick 55 in the 2006 draft. Again, if you want to remain consistent, you need to moan just as much about that "supposed" mistake. Maybe more so but this time, can you include every club - including his own club. Let's broaden the argument instead of narrowing things down to suit an agenda.

There's Goodes at 43, Black at 31, Chapman at 35, Stevie J at 24, Dangerfield at 10 ... it's a very very long list.

With regards to picking Toumpas, we made what was perceived to be the right decision at the time and that's all that matters. Nothing can be changed back and if a similar scenario were to happen again, I'd expect history to repeat itself.

Should we pass on Petracca?

Finally, anyone who doesn't think that the draft isn't at least slightly flawed is delusional. I firmly believe that the draft is a lot more than slightly flawed and the evidence is right there in front of us.

Oh yeah, awesome support to be whinging about how great Wines is and how we blew it big time. What a tremendous show of faith.

And what if we did blow it? Tell me exactly what is constructive about bringing it up again, and again, and again. It's verging on trolling now. And it's the same girls' blouses that are doing it.

A few too many last night, P-man?

CTFD mate.

Fair go Macca.

The guy had double hip surgery and in 2 years has fired not one shot. He is a lemon

You cannot say it was the right decision to make you feel better

I'm moving on.

No more watching in the rear mirror.

Hello premiership coach.

Good bye Mr Chippa

Good bye Mr Clark

Whatever happens to Dimitri Toumpas is in the hands of an astute coach.

Fair go Macca.

The guy had double hip surgery and in 2 years has fired not one shot. He is a lemon

You cannot say it was the right decision to make you feel better

Wyl, I'm not stating my case to make myself "feel better" ... I don't think that way.

This club has made a number of monumental blunders in the last 8 or so years and I've previously posted here about those monumental blunders. However, whenever I've critiqued the club, I've always tried to look at all the data available (at the time)

In this instance, I'm not so much focusing in on letting the club off the hook but more focusing in on how the draft in general is often a lottery. These kids are too young to evaluate with any sort of accuracy and the results back that up. There are "busts" left, right & centre and too many gun players are picked up late in the draft.

I get it, this club can frustrate even the most staunch supporter but in this instance, I'm firmly of the belief that the club made the right call on Toumpas (at the time)

Besides all that, Jimmy could still end up being quite a good player for us - or he may not. That's what the draft does. I accept the draft for what it is. I once dubbed it a "glorified lucky dip" as a way of coming to terms with it all. Am I wrong?

I'm moving on.

No more watching in the rear mirror.

Hello premiership coach.

Good bye Mr Chippa

Good bye Mr Clark

Whatever happens to Dimitri Toumpas is in the hands of an astute coach.

Yeah, just like all the guns Barry P recruited. Their fate relied heavily on the coaches during those times as well.

BTW, does anyone want a coffee?

I'm making one.

Commentators throwing up the question has there ever been a better finals performance by a 19 year old? 26 possessions, 3 goals, 7 clearances..... Shyte!!!

That snap goal he kicked from the pocket in the last was special. Love this kid but makes me feel I'll watching him at the same time.

How does akid that was best mates with Viney- played with each other and pushed each other, lived with him too NOT get taken by us when we had the chance? What happened? When will we start going the safe non speculative pick for once?!

To be fair Toumpas was universally regarded as a top 3 pick and some of us were pretty happy when he dropped to us at 4. At that time I wanted Wines but with Toumpas available it was a tough call.

BTW, does anyone want a coffee?

I'm making one.

Piccolo please.

If every club started threads on every player they should have taken the internet would be broken. This is the draft.

We can't look at our drafting and judge it on an isolated pick, we look at the result as a whole.

As a whole we have failed dismally.

Fair go Macca.

The guy had double hip surgery and in 2 years has fired not one shot. He is a lemon

That is ridiculous and disrespectful.

Piccolo please.

That'll be $8 please. (Perth prices)

this is starting to get really ugly, Roosy, Todd and Jack, take the cheque book, get on the plane and offer Pick 2 to get Ollie where he should have been in the first place.

I think Picket Fence, WYL and a couple of other posters might have posters of Ollie on their walls, serious man crushes going on, just remember to put socks on the door handles while you guys are in there so no one walks in

Looking outside wines v trump.

All these kids have the skills to be drafted. But what sets them apart is what is between their ears and their determination. Its that desire to beat the best makes them great footballers and that will overcome lots of short comings seen in their junior years. For example if Watts had Viney/wines/fife mind sets he would be a superstar. That is the job of our new coach to change their mindsets, to have that hunger for the ball and nothing else.

Remember ever club overlooked Fife, some more than once, he was a skinny kid but I think Freo realised in attitude there was something there. That is what is important in my mind when picking in the draft.

Roosy/viney has already shown that this year with some great pickups.

Surely this is the exact attitude Paul Roos spoke about recently as the main thing he's trying to eradicate from this club. Enough of living in the past and playing the 'woe is us'. We could have had Wines, we don't. Instead of slitting our wrists every time Wines has a good game (every week) how about putting it behind us and backing our own horse in Toumpas to come good next year?

The problem is this stuff up came at the end of a long line, especially Gysberts and Cook. We are certainly paying the price for incompetent recruiters, a personality disordered coachh and an inadequate fitness base.

No wonder Roos et al need more time.

Whines about Wines.

GIVE IT A REST. Beat yourselves up over something else for a change. Watts hasn't had a run for a while.....

Wines is not only shaping as a better pick than Jimmy, at this stage he is also a better player than Jack V (and Viney is a goodin!). However, Toumpas has plenty of upside that we haven't seen yet due to lack of pre-season and injury/illness. With an ounce of luck, Jimmy will prove to be a long-serving, decent player for MFC!

Everyone expected Jimmy to be taken before Wines so it was not a drafting error, it was just that Wines stepped up. Wines had hoped to be taken by the MFC but was not so he probably set out to prove us wrong which he has duly done. Who knows how good or bad he would have been playing in this years melbourne side. Time to move on and support Jimmy T who is a melbourne player while wines is not. So if you want to keep singing the praises of Wines, try the port fan pages im sure you will get lots of thumbs up there.

What can we do about it? Nothing. The OP should be banned on the grounds that this discussion has happened ad nauseum for two years and doesn't need to be started again. We get it and we hate it. Move the [censored] on.