We've stacked it so that we are at this losing end of the way things are... no one did it to us but ourselves.

Over the past decades

• OUR development of players has been sub par,
• OUR nurturing and developing of an ongoing winning culture has been sub par,
• Our talent identification and drafting have been sub par,
• OUR management of the clubs membership has been sub par,
• etc...

Half the threads on this board bemoan this, yet we want the AFL to kick in another extra pick or two so we can continue not taking responsibility for these areas having been sub standard for years...

Mate I'm not just talking about on field look at things like the fixture, salary cap (COLA & 3rd party deals), academies, even things like stadium arrangements and the double standards applied to AFL decision making at all levels. The competition is so heavily manipulated now it is more like WWE "sports-entertainment" than a legitimate competitive sport.

Edited September 23, 201410 yr by Dr. Gonzo

Quote

- Melbourne has a high level of young talent including Jesse Hogan, Jimmy Toumpas, Jack Viney (father/son selection at 2012 draft), Jay Kennedy-Harris, Christian Salem and Dom Tyson.

Quote

- Melbourne was able to attract a number of experienced players during the 2013 Exchange period including Dom Tyson (2nd best and fairest), Bernie Vince (3rd best and fairest), Daniel Cross (5th best and fairest), Viv Michie (from Fremantle) and Aidan Riley (from Adelaide);

I think they might be double dipping here...Dom the young talent and Dom the experienced 38 game player.

Viv was a very experienced 1/2 a game player when he came to us and Riley had a broken leg.

I guess that figures, there's been a bit of double dipping by Mike "stadium deal" Fitzpatrick. Why not be consistent.

Good work Dill and sidekick DH Evans.

Cynicism is our greatest enemy. I'm a little worried about the collective psyche of Melbourne supporters at the moment - many of whom I respect greatly.

We've spent much time discussing why we're so poor. Supermac on his superb blog listed all of our most famous low moments over the past 8 years, Redleg and WJ and others have summed up the case in favour of a PP in a really eloquent but very dire manner. Jackson refers to us as an impediment on the competition. Roos has made regular reference to our scars. The Ox has only today, labelled us a 'basket case'.

If we continue to link our past failures to this notion of needing or deserving compensation and priority picks we're never going to shake the loser mentality. Many have argued that it is our responsibility to utilize whatever mechanisms the AFL puts in place. Up until today I agreed but just as I had concerns about the impact of our blatant tanking a few years ago (an extremely unpopular view at the time!) I'm worried about the chip on the shoulder we as supporters are developing. I'm not going to label it the 'victim mentality' that others have but it's getting very very close. Every time we blame others for our own failures and every time we make reference to the AFL as corrupt or unethical, we become one step closer to becoming cynical. I've spent my life dedicated to the ideals of skepticism. I encourage all I come in contact with in my day to day job to question and challenge but when cynicism overtakes skepticism, we begin to give up. When we think there is no hope, we stop trying. Melbourne supporters are talking about refusing to buy memberships, walking away from AFL and even hoping for the club to fold. That's what happens when you don't think you can make a difference. And that attitude is contagious. And the time to challenge the AFL is when we're on top not when we're scrapping and fighting to get out of the bottom 4. And hopefully that time will come. Hopefully, in a Port Adelaide style revival we'll work hard to climb the ladder and then with the new found respect a higher placed and profitable club will create, people will listen. We cynically make references to the AFL merely following whatever Eddie McGuire says. Well he has his say and people listen because he has put in the hard yards and turned his football club around. Earn respect and your opinions begin to count.

In short, we need to rid ourselves of our recent past and focus on how we can contribute to our future. Ridiculing past boards, presidents and CEOs is futile. Whinging about the AFL serves no purpose.

I read with interest today, Billy Connolly's approach to dealing with his own demons. "I learnt the past doesn't exist. Once you get that into your head you can stop carrying that burden, especially if you've come through something bad". I'm not sure if it's that simple but I like the concept. The past doesn't exist! 2015 - year zero!! Now there's a membership slogan.

Sure, we need to learn from our mistakes but not dwell on them and certainly not publicly. Do the Patrick Dangerfield's of this world want to come to clubs who describe themselves as an impediment to the competition? I respect the enormous amount of positive Jackson and Roos have done for this club over the past 12 - 18 months but they need to be very careful not to continue to reflect on the damage done in the past. It adds to the chip on our collective shoulders and will very soon sound like scapegoating.

So good luck fellow Demonlanders. May the skeptics forever rule the cynics!

Great post.

PJ isn't stupid, I reckon he knew all along there'd be no assistance, and that's why he made it clear publicly that we hadn't requested a PP.

This was all meant to be a message to players and supporters alike. The AFL aren't going to help us, they'll more than likely hinder us, we need to do this ourselves. We need to dig deep and do the hard yards. That means players putting in extra, getting better, that means fans turning up to support, that means a culture throughout the club of a burning desire to succeed.

This is why PJ wanted Roos, the culture master. He's sitting in the background pulling the strings and it's slowly coming together. This will bind the players and they will start to fight, like we haven't seen for 8 years. Fight the power.

Looking forward to big progress in 2015 and some serious momentum from there.

We didn't get a PP due to having players like Riley and Toumpas? Have the AFL seen them play? The AFL is a joke.

We better get band 1 compo for Frawley or I'm gonna go nuts. We can't get any priority picks but the top clubs can steal our players for bugger all? How is that fair?

We just need to pick the eyes out of the draft with the picks we currently have.

Hopefully no club bids on Stretch and he slips to a 3rd rounder, that would help.

Best case scenario is that we get pick 3 for Frawley and our early picks are 2,3 and a second rounder.

Worst case scenario is that we get a second rounder for Frawley and clubs bid early on Stretch.

Be interested to see what we get for Clark as well. Hopefully a second round pick.

Kevin Bartlett always says that the language of the AFL is lies and that sums up the official AFL response to our application. Sure, we beat a couple of the teams that snuck into the top eight but we failed to beat the wooden spooner or any of the other teams that finished in the bottom five and we lost the last nine games. We recognise the crock of lies behind all of this and if the AFL was honest it would remove the sham benefits that allow Sydney an easy ride as well. The Swans have champions like Franklin, Tippett, Kennedy and co, they beat just about everyone including fellow finalist Geelong by 20 goals. Why do they deserve to continue to benefit from the COLA and the scholarship scheme?

It's a sheer obscenity.

GWS CEO Dave Matthews was quoted in that article? He is opposed to us receiving draft assistance? And also believes that their draft tampering hasn't affect our rebuild...

Yes you are right Tatu. I just checked my hypocrosy-meter and it has gone completely off scale with GWS blinking in red. I will have to get it re calibrated and rescale it up after that effort.

What? we want compensation for Clark? No way, toughen up MFC, we need to pull ourselves up. Give him to C'wood with pick 2 for Harry.

As for Frawley, anything earlier than round 4 will just reinforce our dependency culture.

Let's demand Wednesday twilight games to really build our ability to withstand financial storms.

What? we want compensation for Clark? No way, toughen up MFC, we need to pull ourselves up. Give him to C'wood with pick 2 for Harry.

As for Frawley, anything earlier than round 4 will just reinforce our dependency culture.

Let's demand Wednesday twilight games to really build our ability to withstand financial storms.

Just hang on there Sue. It became blatantly obvious that you were taking the p1zz when you asked for Wednesday night games. That's really showing signs of selfishness and petulance on behalf of the Demons.

Let's go all out and demand a snow season blockbuster at Mount Hotham on a Tuesday morning.

What? we want compensation for Clark? No way, toughen up MFC, we need to pull ourselves up. Give him to C'wood with pick 2 for Harry.

As for Frawley, anything earlier than round 4 will just reinforce our dependency culture.

Let's demand Wednesday twilight games to really build our ability to withstand financial storms.

Who's suggesting we shouldn't receive an appropriate draft pick or player for Clark?

Cynicism is our greatest enemy. I'm a little worried about the collective psyche of Melbourne supporters at the moment - many of whom I respect greatly.

We've spent much time discussing why we're so poor. Supermac on his superb blog listed all of our most famous low moments over the past 8 years, Redleg and WJ and others have summed up the case in favour of a PP in a really eloquent but very dire manner. Jackson refers to us as an impediment on the competition. Roos has made regular reference to our scars. The Ox has only today, labelled us a 'basket case'.

If we continue to link our past failures to this notion of needing or deserving compensation and priority picks we're never going to shake the loser mentality. Many have argued that it is our responsibility to utilize whatever mechanisms the AFL puts in place. Up until today I agreed but just as I had concerns about the impact of our blatant tanking a few years ago (an extremely unpopular view at the time!) I'm worried about the chip on the shoulder we as supporters are developing. I'm not going to label it the 'victim mentality' that others have but it's getting very very close. Every time we blame others for our own failures and every time we make reference to the AFL as corrupt or unethical, we become one step closer to becoming cynical. I've spent my life dedicated to the ideals of skepticism. I encourage all I come in contact with in my day to day job to question and challenge but when cynicism overtakes skepticism, we begin to give up. When we think there is no hope, we stop trying. Melbourne supporters are talking about refusing to buy memberships, walking away from AFL and even hoping for the club to fold. That's what happens when you don't think you can make a difference. And that attitude is contagious. And the time to challenge the AFL is when we're on top not when we're scrapping and fighting to get out of the bottom 4. And hopefully that time will come. Hopefully, in a Port Adelaide style revival we'll work hard to climb the ladder and then with the new found respect a higher placed and profitable club will create, people will listen. We cynically make references to the AFL merely following whatever Eddie McGuire says. Well he has his say and people listen because he has put in the hard yards and turned his football club around. Earn respect and your opinions begin to count.

In short, we need to rid ourselves of our recent past and focus on how we can contribute to our future. Ridiculing past boards, presidents and CEOs is futile. Whinging about the AFL serves no purpose.

I read with interest today, Billy Connolly's approach to dealing with his own demons. "I learnt the past doesn't exist. Once you get that into your head you can stop carrying that burden, especially if you've come through something bad". I'm not sure if it's that simple but I like the concept. The past doesn't exist! 2015 - year zero!! Now there's a membership slogan.

Sure, we need to learn from our mistakes but not dwell on them and certainly not publicly. Do the Patrick Dangerfield's of this world want to come to clubs who describe themselves as an impediment to the competition? I respect the enormous amount of positive Jackson and Roos have done for this club over the past 12 - 18 months but they need to be very careful not to continue to reflect on the damage done in the past. It adds to the chip on our collective shoulders and will very soon sound like scapegoating.

So good luck fellow Demonlanders. May the skeptics forever rule the cynics!

Your post would be better directed at the players. The parts of your post I have bolded I disagree with vehemently. I ask you, as a supporter, why are these our failures? I wasn't involved in the decision making process that got the club here and didn't get the chance to be. I'm not the one who misses the handball to a teammate. I'm not the one missing a goal from the top of the square. I'm not the one who drafted for the club between 2007-now. Why are these our failures? They are the club's. We are just the poor fools who blindly give our money in the hope that the club will, in return, give us some joy/ hope/ excitement/ fulfillment/ happiness. Instead we have been given a complete and utter shitsandwhich for 8 years.

The second bolded line ties in to the first. As a supporter what can I do to make a difference? I can't run out on to the field and win them the game, I can't run the club in a feasible and functional manner and I can't draft players in who actually compete. I turn up to the games and give my support, I pay my membership, I naively defend my club when I am routinely ridiculed for supporting them. The only way I can make a difference is to stop giving them money.

"Oh, you go for Melbourne? Your team's so [censored], stop asking for handouts". Not much I can do about either of those unfortunately, but you're right, the problem with this club and it's 38 wins in the last 176 games is the supporters. Having paid to see my team win 21.59% of games they have played in over the last 8 years, being told every year there's going to be improvement, moving past being ridiculed by opposition supporter to being genuinely pitied, the constant use of the word 'hope', being on AFL handouts, copping tanking references despite it being 5 years old, . You don't think we're [censored] sick of it?

But no, you say it's victim mentality and cynicism that leads us to talk about why we're so poor, why don't you do something about it? Why not start conversations about all the good things we've done? Do the inverse of Supermac and write up a nice list of all the good...average...better than mediocre things which have happened over the last 8 years. You can start with "AFL paid out the coaches and administration in 2013, hopefully starting a new chapter for the club".

End rant.

You need to address the things related to being a Dees supporter you can control and those you can't. You can't control outside perceptions and you can't control the decisions made internally. You can control the way in which you choose to react. I simply have decided not to lament on the past because it's a waste of my energy. I'm not going to waste my emotionally energy worrying about the AFL and their decision making processes. I can't control that.

true but ellis did play in there premiership team. But they also got later picks right. Luke Breust at 47 in the rookie draft. sam mitchell at pick 36 and traded smartly to get gunston and hale. maybe they just had better development staff.

Very true. They won 2 flags because of the players that they got as PP's by tanking in the mid naughties.

You need to address the things related to being a Dees supporter you can control and those you can't. You can't control outside perceptions and you can't control the decisions made internally. You can control the way in which you choose to react. I simply have decided not to lament on the past because it's a waste of my energy. I'm not going to waste my emotionally energy worrying about the AFL and their decision making processes. I can't control that.

Billy might say he walks away from the past and so might you but in reality no one does or in fact can. It informs where and why you are at where you are now.

Of course it shouldn't be over analysed as everything will grind to a halt and nothing will move forward but it is still a very important resource believe it or not.

As for things you can and can't control, well if it wasn't for a lot of us supporters getting active we wouldn't have Jackson or Roos at the club now. A lot of us couldn't abide the previous administration and made enough noise that eventually the AFL took notice. So yep, I'm going to waste my energy to get change if that's what I believe needs to happen and I will continue to criticise the AFL when they are being less than honest.

It might take time but you do get a result in the end. There's a lot to be said about working on what you can control, I think that circle of influence is a lot greater than you think.

Yeah, how dare we ask for the rules to be enforced.

You want attitude?

Fight to equalise the league.

If we are 'on our own' then let's get everyone else 'on their own' - no academies, no COLA, and a fair fixture.

When the big clubs benefitted from the draft assistance rules, it was enforced.

Now that the don't benefit from it, they are fighting it, they have won, and now we wander out into the future with a list so scarred the AFL hasn't seen it before.

Roos has to get Dangerfield, Viney and Taylor have to hit every pick out of the park, and we need a Stretch or a Lovett to give us a leg up.

Because the league that we are a part of won't.

Until we are at the top, then we will be the darlings of the league! Ha-ha!

It's all about maintaining the status quo.

Billy might say he walks away from the past and so might you but in reality no one does or in fact can. It informs where and why you are at where you are now.

Of course it shouldn't be over analysed as everything will grind to a halt and nothing will move forward but it is still a very important resource believe it or not.

As for things you can and can't control, well if it wasn't for a lot of us supporters getting active we wouldn't have Jackson or Roos at the club now. A lot of us couldn't abide the previous administration and made enough noise that eventually the AFL took notice. So yep, I'm going to waste my energy to get change if that's what I believe needs to happen and I will continue to criticise the AFL when they are being less than honest.

It might take time but you do get a result in the end. There's a lot to be said about working on what you can control, I think that circle of influence is a lot greater than you think.

That's great. You can see a connection between making noise and the appointments of PJ and Roos. In other words you felt some sense of control over the situation. But how much of the noise made on Demonland is futile and how much impacts on the views and actions of the AFL?

Mate I'm not just talking about on field look at things like the fixture, salary cap (COLA & 3rd party deals), academies, even things like stadium arrangements and the double standards applied to AFL decision making at all levels. The competition is so heavily manipulated now it is more like WWE "sports-entertainment" than a legitimate competitive sport.

Hey Dr, in the past 50 years since our last premiership we (the MFC) have mismanaged many aspects of running a football club such that we are now at the effect of these outside influences that you mention.

The AFL didn't do this to us.

The other clubs didn't do this to us.

We did it to ourselves, us and no one else.

And its from us fully owning what we did, taking full responsibility for our predicament, that we can then take on the task of fixing it.

Edited September 24, 201410 yr by PaulRB

That's great. You can see a connection between making noise and the appointments of PJ and Roos. In other words you felt some sense of control over the situation. But how much of the noise made on Demonland is futile and how much impacts on the views and actions of the AFL?

Of course there was a connection, don't be condescending.

As for the noise on Demonland....It's a forum.

Of course there was a connection, don't be condescending.

As for the noise on Demonland....It's a forum.

I wasn't being condescending. I've seen what can happen when people make some noise on a footy forum. I think Gutnick's demise owed much to those campaigning strongly against him on the internet. I'm all for people bringing about change through the power of their convictions and their ability to move other people. My point centres more on the ability to remain constructive as opposed to becoming overly cynical, particularly about past administrations and the AFL. If we as a supporter group become overly cynical, we'll never bring about change again because by definition we'll think it's all in vain and that self-interest will ensure Melbourne never again has the opportunity to realistically challenge for a flag.

Interesting that the meeting this week prior to Draft week was held at WESTPAC CENTRE - complete control even over the venue. What a farce.

Interesting that the meeting this week prior to Draft week was held at WESTPAC CENTRE - complete control even over the venue. What a farce.

At least our boys didn't have to go far.

What do people really think we will get from Collingwood for Clark?

What do people really think we will get from Collingwood for Clark?

Probably HL if he is happy to play with us.

The Pies along with the Bombers are known as very difficult to deal with.

However, considering they want MC and want to get rid of HL, I would play hardball and seek something else be it player or pick.

Neale Daniher called on the club to become ruthless when he was Coach. I am still waiting to see it. Now would be a good time to start.

What do people really think we will get from Collingwood for Clark?

Inclined to think the mooted straight swap might actually be the go .

Also inclined to think it will happen day 1