Roos and role players

[nutbean 8,837]

In an article in today's Age mainly about Jack Watts, Roos talked also talked about role players and it resonated with me.

“I think there’s this myth in footy that every premiership player has to be a superstar.

"You have to have role players, you have to have guys who can do the job week in week out that perhaps people don’t recognise as great players externally but internally they’re extremely valuable players.”

I think many here jump on players that basically do what is asked of them - they have talent "ceilings" and will never be superstars but do as the coaching staff wants. Bail is one player that comes to mind - many here pot him but I think he is one that fits exactly into the Roos quote above.

The big disclaimer on Roos statement is the we just don't have any superstars and as much as the coaching staff like him, if you have a team completely made up of Bails you will go nowhere fast.

Edited August 12, 2014 by nutbean

[old dee 23,256]

In an article in today's Age mainly about Jack Watts, Roos talked also talked about role players and it resonated with me.

“I think there’s this myth in footy that every premiership player has to be a superstar.

"You have to have role players, you have to have guys who can do the job week in week out that perhaps people don’t recognise as great players externally but internally they’re extremely valuable players.”

I think many here jump on players that basically do what is asked of them - they have talent "ceilings" and will never be superstars but do as the coaching staff wants. Bail is one player that comes to mind - many here pot him but I think he is one that fits exactly into the Roos quote above.

The big disclaimer on Roos statement is the we just don't have any superstars and as much as the coaching staff like him, if you have a team completely made up of Bails you will go nowhere fast.

Sounds like the Dees 2014 year in a nut shell

( no pun intended Nutbean )

[rpfc 27,687]

A few on here get frustrated when I talk about 'role players' but Roos is proving me right this year with the specific roles he has given Pedersen and Jetta.

If you can stick to your task and be that little cog in the machine you can be very useful once all the other little cogs are doing theirs.

But you need a motor to get everything going and moving quick and our 'engine room' just doesn't have the capacity or quality that other teams have (just to bring that back to a common footy metaphor).

[Waltham33 422]

Roos won a lot of games with role players in Sydney.

[Satyriconhome 10,090]

You only have to look at the coaches Roos brought in to see where he is coming from, Mathews, McPherson and Miller, no superstars but good solid footy players who gave 100% consistently...teaching the same...and Allison meant to put him first but got distracted about somebody talking about work...only 2 weeks to go and then I am delisted....can sympathise with Nev

Edited August 13, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[poita 3,755]

The problem with this club is that we recruit the role players first and expect to be able to top up with superstars later.

Many of our delistings at year end will be flanker / utility types that were generally recruited with high draft picks, presumably with a specific role in mind (Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, etc plus the likes of Maric, Morton and Gysberts in previous years). We then end up paying overs for guys like Vince, Dawes and Clark to fill in the gaps.

The successful clubs, Hawthorn in particular, have taken genuine midfielders and key position players with high draft picks (Lewis, Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, etc), and then topped up with role players (Puopolo, Breust, Shiels, etc) from other sources.

Jones and Frawley have been our only two genuinely successful picks in the past decade, both in terms of the type of player selected and the actual player, and that was eight or more years ago. Salem and Toumpas are too early to judge, but I'm not sure that either will be a genuine AFL midfielder.

[Maggot 1977 263]

Any chance of a training report this week Saty ?

[ChaserJ 4,087]

I suppose the discussion with Bail is the value of his tackling (4.6 tackles per game this year) and pressure off the ball vs his uneven contribution with the ball. His disposal efficiency is below competition average at 68% from his 15 possessions p/g, and his clanger (or critical error) count is 2.2 a game. Against Brisbane it was as high as 7.

To put this in context, Tom McDonald’s clanger count is 2.3 p/g (disp efficiency is 72% from 14 ppg) and Jack Grimes who has been widely criticised averaging is 1.7 (d/e is interestingly at 78% from 19 ppg).

What isn’t shown from the data is how costly the clangers are and how often they led to opposition scores.

[stuie 7,374]

Yep role players... Plus Goodes, Kirk, Bolton, O'loughlin, O'Keefe etc... No one has doubted Roos' philosophy with role players so I find the "I told you so's" in this thread a bit hilarious, but what superstars do we have that make the role players actually role players? That's our list weakness and Roos said as much earlier in the year when talking about going after some gun mids at end of season.

Edited August 13, 2014 by stuie

[nutbean 8,837]

The problem with this club is that we recruit the role players first and expect to be able to top up with superstars later.

Disagree - we have recruited players that we expected (hoped ?) would turn out to be superstars and have turned out to be sometime role players ( with the occassional teasing cameo)

[nutbean 8,837]

No one has doubted Roos' philosophy with role players so I find the "I told you so's" in this thread a bit hilarious, but what superstars do we have that make the role players actually role players?

You're a bit antsy ? I think almost everyone on the thread has acknowledged the same thing - we need more than just role players.

[stuie 7,374]

You're a bit antsy ? I think almost everyone on the thread has acknowledged the same thing - we need more than just role players.

A few on here get frustrated when I talk about 'role players' but Roos is proving me right this year...

Probably just that post that made me antsy I guess nutty.

[DeeSpencer 23,666]

I don't buy this role players mumbo on how some on here have manipulated it. Doing your role means performing to a standard. Footy is not some magical game where effort alone and attempting to follow the coaches instruction produces results.

I understand role players when mentioned in conjunction with lock down defenders who play within themselves with ball in hand. Or someone like Bail who's in the team for his run and defensive efforts.

But when Roos brings it out when talking about Watts I can't help but think it's just a BS excuse he's using to protect Watts from criticism. Because the current criticism of Watts is fair but Roos knows he got more than enough that was unfair early in his career. There is no role in a team that sees players miss tackles and fall over from being out of position and not attack contests.

[Pennant St Dee 11,874]

Yep role players... Plus Goodes, Kirk, Bolton, O'loughlin, O'Keefe etc... No one has doubted Roos' philosophy with role players so I find the "I told you so's" in this thread a bit hilarious, but what superstars do we have that make the role players actually role players? That's our list weakness and Roos said as much earlier in the year when talking about going after some gun mids at end of season.

Kirk started out as a negating player with on face value not a lot of tools at his disposal, nobody knew away from the inner sanctum of Sydney the leadership qualities he had, Bolton was always a hard at it fanatical ball winner but hardly an out an out Superstar. And Ryan O'Keefe what was he 25/26 before he started to show a lot more than potential with an appetite for hard work.

Role players Kirk, Bolton & O'Keefe they all were playing second fiddle to the likes of Schwass, Kelly, Williams,Maxfield & Hall. As they moved on the others progressed from role players to key players and Richards, Malceski, Mcveigh, Jack, Mcglynn, Hanneberry were new role players who have no progressed to Key players with Rampe, Smith, Cunningham etc now role players who will more than likely continue to evolve . It's this continued cycle of continuation and passing on the culture that is the greatest legacy Roos left at Sydney.

I agree we need to snag a potential superstar from somewhere (we had Clark but we all know what happened) but for me if Roos can leave us with a legacy of culture like he left at Sydney we will be well on our way to a sustained period of finals contention and possibly more

[stuie 7,374]

Kirk started out as a negating player with on face value not a lot of tools at his disposal, nobody knew away from the inner sanctum of Sydney the leadership qualities he had, Bolton was always a hard at it fanatical ball winner but hardly an out an out Superstar. And Ryan O'Keefe what was he 25/26 before he started to show a lot more than potential with an appetite for hard work.

Role players Kirk, Bolton & O'Keefe they all were playing second fiddle to the likes of Schwass, Kelly, Williams,Maxfield & Hall. As they moved on the others progressed from role players to key players and Richards, Malceski, Mcveigh, Jack, Mcglynn, Hanneberry were new role players who have no progressed to Key players with Rampe, Smith, Cunningham etc now role players who will more than likely continue to evolve . It's this continued cycle of continuation and passing on the culture that is the greatest legacy Roos left at Sydney.

I agree we need to snag a potential superstar from somewhere (we had Clark but we all know what happened) but for me if Roos can leave us with a legacy of culture like he left at Sydney we will be well on our way to a sustained period of finals contention and possibly more

No argument there about the culture Roos is trying instill with us, or the development you've highlighted that Sydney had/has, but we need to recognize the true standard of our list. Familiarity with the names has us as Dees fans overrating our players. Role players is one thing, players with extremely poor skill, run, and belief is another completely.

Our biggest "superstar" would have been a role player for Sydney.

[buck_nekkid 5,633]

I was chatting with a mate who is a whorethorn tragic.

He remembers when Clarko came in. He remembers the frustration, and even booing, at the way the hawks played. Kicking side wards, kicking backwards, roles and accountability.

Now regarded as one of the most elegant and capable teams.

It starts with roles. It moves into who can and who wants it, the rest will follow.

I have enjoyed more footy as a dees supporter this year than for a while. ( that win over the Toigs was spectacular!)

Ps- I'm glad Roosy is not trying to make Watts an inside mid. As we get better, having him and stretcher as outside mids playing wide receiver/ quarterback roles with pinpoint skills could be brilliant...

[Little Richard 5,943]

Two thoughts that this subject brought up:

- I'm sure that quite a few of our players aren't even good enough to play the role required of them.

- Neeld had the same thoughts on role players but he handled it poorly in that players were playing roles that they weren't suited too, and their roles were extremely narrow, in that following the instructions he gave them the flair was taken out of their game. It seems to me that Roos has a real knack for finding the balance.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Django

[Fork 'em 6,628]

Ps- I'm glad Roosy is not trying to make Watts an inside mid.

Cause he'd get broken in half.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Fork 'em

[Deez 298]

I was chatting with a mate who is a whorethorn tragic.

He remembers when Clarko came in. He remembers the frustration, and even booing, at the way the hawks played. Kicking side wards, kicking backwards, roles and accountability.

Now regarded as one of the most elegant and capable teams.

It starts with roles. It moves into who can and who wants it, the rest will follow.

I have enjoyed more footy as a dees supporter this year than for a while. ( that win over the Toigs was spectacular!)

Ps- I'm glad Roosy is not trying to make Watts an inside mid. As we get better, having him and stretcher as outside mids playing wide receiver/ quarterback roles with pinpoint skills could be brilliant...

yep, watts's use of the ball and creativity is what he's about, he's obviously an outside player.

We don't see vince landing 8 tackles a game, not on a regular basis at least, and its not expected because he's fantastic at working at the back of the pack and setting up the play, as well as providing a cannon leg and quite an accurst kick.

[nutbean 8,837]

We don't see vince landing 8 tackles a game, not on a regular basis at least, and its not expected because he's fantastic at working at the back of the pack and setting up the play, as well as providing a cannon leg and quite an accurst kick.

5th most tackles at the club - behind Jones, Cross, Bail, Viney.

[rpfc 27,687]

Probably just that post that made me antsy I guess nutty.

Maybe if you read past my first line you might be less antsy?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

In an article in today's Age mainly about Jack Watts, Roos talked also talked about role players and it resonated with me.

“I think there’s this myth in footy that every premiership player has to be a superstar.

"You have to have role players, you have to have guys who can do the job week in week out that perhaps people don’t recognise as great players externally but internally they’re extremely valuable players.”

I think many here jump on players that basically do what is asked of them - they have talent "ceilings" and will never be superstars but do as the coaching staff wants. Bail is one player that comes to mind - many here pot him but I think he is one that fits exactly into the Roos quote above.

The big disclaimer on Roos statement is the we just don't have any superstars and as much as the coaching staff like him, if you have a team completely made up of Bails you will go nowhere fast.

So, we have a new team to take on the team of Nicholsons and Wattses as discussed here. Now we need another team or there'll be too many byes.

Edited August 13, 2014 by La Dee-vina Comedia