You know times are tough when people are arguing over who out of Godfrey and Nicholson are better kicks.

You know times are tough when people are arguing over who out of Godfrey and Nicholson are better kicks.

Actually, my initial point has been somewhat lost. I'm just sick of the incessant criticism of Bail's and Nicholson's (and Jordie Mckenzie's and Tom McDonald's) disposal skills. It wasn't meant to lead to a discussion on comparative skills.

Actually, my initial point has been somewhat lost. I'm just sick of the incessant criticism of Bail's and Nicholson's (and Jordie Mckenzie's and Tom McDonald's) disposal skills. It wasn't meant to lead to a discussion on comparative skills.

But they are professional football players who can't perform the most important skill with reliability. I agree there's not much point harping on about it but it's still a discussion point. And sure there are plenty of basketballers who can't shoot (most starting C's in the NBA) and even ice hockey players who make the team as enforces who probably can barely skate yet alone do much with the puck but still it's annoying. McDonald and McKenzie in particular would be even more highly rated if they could kick. And Bail and Nicholson would hold promise and potential not negativity about their futures.

Plenty of revisionism goes on here. Simon Godfrey's disposal was significantly worse than either Nicholson or Bail...and he was also much slower. I don't recall Luke Williams having particularly poor disposal but he probably didn't play enough games for a fair view to be formed one way or the other.

Nicholson and Bail may be list cloggers and they may never improve. But the point still stands - if the club doesn't have to waste time getting their fitness up to scratch, they can spend that time improving their skills.

That's not really true in reality though. All players do much the same running and skills work as far as I've seen. Super unfit players get put through extra running sure and poor skilled players probably do more remedial skills work but you can't take guys out of the drills that work on game plan and fitness for excessive skills training when they are already getting it.

The truth is that Bail and Nicholson are on our list because they have enough positive attributes to counter out their poor kicking. They aren't on our list because the club thinks they can just magically learn how to kick and then they are top line endurance players.

Look at it this way. Mitchell Johnson obviously did a huge amount of work on his accuracy to get rid of his greatest liability (in his horrendous wayward spells he was so good at). But he also had to overcome injury and build up fitness as well as keep working on his good attributes (short balls, express pace, shape back in to the right handers, ability to bowl sustained spells).

I'm just sick of the incessant criticism of Bail's and Nicholson's disposal skills.

Not as sick as I am watching them.

Well according to ch10 sport Alistair Nicholson ran well, funny I thought he left us a while ago and we saw Blease throw up. Ch7 mentioned Tommy and Daniel and Blease again but neither network mentioned Jesse Hogan which surprised me.

Because a 3km time trial measures improved fitness accurately enough for the purposes of the footy dept?

Surely you're correct that it could be measured better, but I doubt that level of accuracy is required.

Machsy was not be srius

I may be the only one who think this but with Nicho and Tommy Mac, I don't think their kicking will improve much. If you're over the age of 20 and still a poor kick generally there is only so much they can do. They may get better but these two are such a long way back I don't think they will ever become reliable. Tommy Mac it shouldn't affect too much as he can spoil and handball unless he has to kick it long whereas Nicho will seriously struggle as he relies on his speed and disposal to have impact on games.

The truth is that Bail and Nicholson are on our list because they have enough positive attributes to counter out their poor kicking. They aren't on our list because the club thinks they can just magically learn how to kick and then they are top line endurance players.

No, they're on our list because we can't physically sack 25 at once.

Or else they would have.

Glad to see Daniel Cross run well. Bit harsh of the herald sun to say the veteran recruit showed up many of his younger teammates and they have a picture of Watts. I'd say that is credit to Cross for keeping himself in good nick and we know he wasnt finished as a player last year.

How did Blease go? We know how fast he can sprint but what about long distances. Also good to see Tommy Mac still showing the way. He has a great tank

Yeah, what's Cross, 30/31... The media make out that athletes are near finished at that age.

Mike Jordan done his best work in his 30's and Carey was of the opinion that he peaked around 28-29, just one year off being over the hill (according to some in the media).

The football media should leave their uneducated bias out of it and just report what they see - which was Daniel Cross looking in fine fettle and ready for a big year.

Edited January 10, 201411 yr by KingDingAling

You know times are tough when people are arguing over who out of Godfrey and Nicholson are better kicks.

Both are/were 'oh crap this could go anywhere' type of players when they are/were about to kick.

But for some reason I was a Godders fan. Not so much for Nicho

Time trials mean a lot.

They tell us that Nicholson is very fit. This is part of the reason why he's still around - Roos wants to see our players gut-running, forward and back, both when we have the ball and when we don't. Nicholson can do that, which we know because he dominates time trials.

He might be fit, but he can't kick and isn't a natural footballer. For that matter neither are Mckenzie & Bail - whilst they are on our list, it just goes to show we are carrying a lot of deadwood that wouldn't be on other lists. Okay McDonald can't kick either, but he can spoil etc... In order to become a serious contender in the future we have to prune our deadwood, whilst they get a game we will not be able to carry them like a top 4 side maybe could. It really frustrates the hell out of me that these types of players (McDonald excluded) get cont.racts and do dilly squat - Bail is always concussed. Jordie can't kick to save himself. We've never had a player named Nicholson that was any good (Alistair should have stuck with hockey). Don't get me started on Pedo or Brynnes(sorry if mispelt).

Irony is that Daniel Cross is probably a worse kick than Godfrey. Always looks to dish off by hand after a mark etc. No confidence in his kicking at all. On par with Spencer in his first 1-2 years of league footy. Having said that, we had to do everything to get our midfield up from e-grade to c+/b-. When Cross has the ball in a stop play situation, look for 2 teammates to stream past with for the gimme; also look for a few players to spread to clear space (even behind the ball); because Cross won't back himself to find a needle in a haystack by foot. Roos will not let him go by foot to the corridor, as the turnover will be costly. But one good thing about the MFC forward line of 2014 with Clark/Dawes/Hogan/Howe, is that Cross might be one of a few players allowed a "bomb entry".

Irony is that Daniel Cross is probably a worse kick than Godfrey. Always looks to dish off by hand after a mark etc. No confidence in his kicking at all. On par with Spencer in his first 1-2 years of league footy. Having said that, we had to do everything to get our midfield up from e-grade to c+/b-. When Cross has the ball in a stop play situation, look for 2 teammates to stream past with for the gimme; also look for a few players to spread to clear space (even behind the ball); because Cross won't back himself to find a needle in a haystack by foot. Roos will not let him go by foot to the corridor, as the turnover will be costly. But one good thing about the MFC forward line of 2014 with Clark/Dawes/Hogan/Howe, is that Cross might be one of a few players allowed a "bomb entry".

The way some people are talking about Cross's kicking is absolutely ridiculous.

The man was an absolute champion of a team that was pushing for a Grand Final spot and will bring nothing but leadership and 110% effort to our rabble of a club. Kicking may not be his strong point, but he by no means is completely bereft of the skill.

To liken it to "Spencer in his first 1-2 years of league footy" is absolutely moronic and of the up most disrespect to a player (Cross) who is held in high regard and respect by virtually everyone in the game.

This guys Bulldogs blog is quite good,

http://www.bulldogtragician.com/

if you search for Daniel Cross inevitably the next adjectives will be about ''floating punt kicks''. So I guess we have to temper our expectations that

he's going to have a Travis Johnstone-esque laser boot on him.

No real surprises in the time trials although Trengove is usually part of the top trifecta with Nicho and Tommy Mc.

The best thing was watching last night's evening news and seeing Blease chunder in technicolour. Marvellous how such trivial sideshows can feature in a quiet (AFL) news period.

The media make out that athletes are near finished at that age ...

The football media should leave their uneducated bias out of it and just report what they see - which was Daniel Cross looking in fine fettle and ready for a big year.

Longer-distance events are full of athletes peaking in their 30s.

I'm not surprised Cross finished well up in the time trial. He's had years of training to accumulate the endurance required.

Longer-distance events are full of athletes peaking in their 30s.

I'm not surprised Cross finished well up in the time trial. He's had years of training to accumulate the endurance required.

Spot on 'mauriesy'. They don't reach their prime until their 30's.

Saw Nicho with JKH at about 5.30 on my way home at I think Stradbroke park in Kew East doing extra running, so can't be all bad having someone that fit on our list (regardless of his kicking) if he is taking the young guys out to work on their endurance. And who knows hopefully JKH was helping him with his kicking!!!

Crossy you gun

As much as I'm happy Cross is on the list and hope he has a successful year, it will be a poor result for the club if in 3-5 years time we all conclude that he was the best recruit of our trade period.

As much as I'm happy Cross is on the list and hope he has a successful year, it will be a poor result for the club if in 3-5 years time we all conclude that he was the best recruit of our trade period.

You cannot be serious? I am sure that JKH, Tyson, Salem, Mitchie, Harmes and Hunt will still be around and firing well after Cross and Vince have retired after doing us excellent service.

You cannot be serious? I am sure that JKH, Tyson, Salem, Mitchie, Harmes and Hunt will still be around and firing well after Cross and Vince have retired after doing us excellent service.

Well I am hoping he only means trade period and therefore Tyson, Michie, Vince and maybe Riley but yes it would be a fair case of MFCSS to think that none of those guys can give us better service than Cross.

Either way it's a bit irrelevant to this thread. But I am expecting Cross to be a bit of a love-hate guy over his 1-2 years with us as a players. His kicking will frustrate as will his lack of speed with the ball, but his work rate and courage will impress. I'm hoping a new club reinvigorates him, he was a bit hard to watch in some earlier games with the dogs this year

The way some people are talking about Cross's kicking is absolutely ridiculous.

The man was an absolute champion of a team that was pushing for a Grand Final spot and will bring nothing but leadership and 110% effort to our rabble of a club. Kicking may not be his strong point, but he by no means is completely bereft of the skill.

To liken it to "Spencer in his first 1-2 years of league footy" is absolutely moronic and of the up most disrespect to a player (Cross) who is held in high regard and respect by virtually everyone in the game.

It's also way off the mark. Cross' disposal isn't up to the standard of say, Jimmy Toumpas but it's reasonably effective and I think he will challenge Jordie McKenzie for his role as a stopper because he's just as good in that role and he's an infinitely better kick.

The thing with Nicho and Bail is that while they are not great kicks and tend to have lapses in judgement and decision making on the field, they both put in a massive effort at training. That is an area that the club has failed at in recent times, so they have really stood out on the track. I think it is to their credit that as we get more players who will match their effort they are still heading the pack in this area. It may not save them if they can't get their kicking sorted, but it has certainly bought them time on the list.

The thing with Nicho and Bail is that while they are not great kicks and tend to have lapses in judgement and decision making on the field, they both put in a massive effort at training. That is an area that the club has failed at in recent times, so they have really stood out on the track. I think it is to their credit that as we get more players who will match their effort they are still heading the pack in this area. It may not save them if they can't get their kicking sorted, but it has certainly bought them time on the list.

Probably therein lies a value on our list if they slipstream some of their teammates into greater effort, culminating in a fitter match-ready team by round 1.