Punters Club fiasco

[old55 22,727]

*explanation*

cheers thanks!

[KingDingAling 3,737]

From my understanding it was the reaction to the treatment that has caused the horse most of its ill health rather than the bite (or needle) itself.

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I'd be surprised if there was any wrongdoing. I can understand the "timing" of said ill health isn't giving my view much substance!

It's the racing industry, I'd be more surprised if something dodgy didn't go on - than if it was all above board.

Apparently Jimmy wasn't showing much in training, that's what we do know.

So, what is the best way these guys can profit? It would point to the death of the horse, it's quite simple logic.

Money is the end goal and when the animal can no longer provide max profits, then the animal is dispensible - especially if he is worth more dead.

I do not for one second agree with this, but I believe that is what happened.

Except Jimmy survived.

Edited December 11, 2013 by KingDingAling

[John Crow Batty 8,763]

Reported in THE AGE that McLardy put in $168,000 around January this year. And maybe a few other unnamed Melbourne identiles did too. An Annus Horribillis for Don.

Edited December 12, 2013 by america de cali

[old dee 23,459]

Reported in THE AGE that McLardy put in $168,000 around January this year. And maybe a few other unnamed Melbourne identiles did too. An Annus Horribillis for Don.

I am struggling to find sympathy adc!

[rjay 24,567]

Loved Jason Richardson's spin on this on SEN today. It isn't a racing problem, it's a scam. Yes it is a scam Jason and one that is rooted deep within the racing industry, an industry that only survives for gambling.

No gambling no racing.

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

Yes i have never seen racing as a sport. It is all about winning money.

Nobody would bother with it unless betting is involved.

A sporting event or match can stand alone without betting. Betting exists but it is not the reason the sport started.

[The Chazz 4,077]

It's a bit more complicated.

Stallions that are placed on a stud see a number of free serves being given to the stud for sale by them which is their charge for keeping the horse. Lets say 20 service rights might be the norm. Then stallions don't get every mare in foal, 90% would be a very strong result. Then most stallions are syndicated and the owners of the shares get serves attached to their shares. So after stud service rights, shareholder service rights and negative results are deducted, you may find that only 20-40 serves have been sold and go in the kitty.

The usual selling price of a stallion is calculated on getting money back within 3 seasons. A stallion is at his best price initially in his first season, that is when the magic is there. Often his price drops in his second and depending on what his foals look like, can drop again in the 3rd and then it depends on racetrack performance of progeny.

I'm not sure that is an "industry standard" situation Redleg. There would be no way that bigger studs like Vinery would pay $20m for All Too Hard (appropriate name for a beast serving 150+ mares a year!), with the view of recouping money from the 20-40 serves you speak of. Someone like Darley, who wouldn't have a need for shareholders, I think you would find a large percentage of successful serves would be funding and maintaining their dominance in horse racing in Australia.

Further to that, you mention a sire's best price is his initial season. That's true for the first couple of seasons, but let's not forget that it can increase tenfold after that 3rd year should his horses start winning Group/Listed races, especially as 2 year olds. Redoute's Choice's first season as a sire saw him with a $30k service fee. Didn't take long for that to increase signficantly, with his service fee in 2013 being around $137k per successful service (which isn't his personal best either I might add - pre GFC he was around or over $200k!).

It's a big risk, but the reward can be well worth it. I personally am not in a position to be able to get involved to that level, but if money wasn't too much of an issue, it's something that I would absolutely consider. In the mean time, I continue to buy shares in fillies that Cam Pedersen could run past!

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yes i have never seen racing as a sport. It is all about winning money.

Nobody would bother with it unless betting is involved.

A sporting event or match can stand alone without betting. Betting exists but it is not the reason the sport started.

It's interesting WYL. Wasn't long ago that we were hoping that we wouldn't lose our gaming licence over the tanking saga as a lot feared it would sink our club.

[Slartibartfast 16,830]

Reported in THE AGE that McLardy put in $168,000 around January this year. And maybe a few other unnamed Melbourne identiles did too. An Annus Horribillis for Don.

Doubt that will change Don's quality of life.

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

It's interesting WYL. Wasn't long ago that we were hoping that we wouldn't lose our gaming licence over the tanking saga as a lot feared it would sink our club.

Yes but that is a seperate issue.

If the Demons are 5 points down at the 29 minute mark. I am thinking of only the match. The game, not the finances in my wallet.

Some people do. But if gambling is ever banned footy will survive. Racing would not.

[old dee 23,459]

I'm not sure that is an "industry standard" situation Redleg. There would be no way that bigger studs like Vinery would pay $20m for All Too Hard (appropriate name for a beast serving 150+ mares a year!), with the view of recouping money from the 20-40 serves you speak of. Someone like Darley, who wouldn't have a need for shareholders, I think you would find a large percentage of successful serves would be funding and maintaining their dominance in horse racing in Australia.

Further to that, you mention a sire's best price is his initial season. That's true for the first couple of seasons, but let's not forget that it can increase tenfold after that 3rd year should his horses start winning Group/Listed races, especially as 2 year olds. Redoute's Choice's first season as a sire saw him with a $30k service fee. Didn't take long for that to increase signficantly, with his service fee in 2013 being around $137k per successful service (which isn't his personal best either I might add - pre GFC he was around or over $200k!).

It's a big risk, but the reward can be well worth it. I personally am not in a position to be able to get involved to that level, but if money wasn't too much of an issue, it's something that I would absolutely consider. In the mean time, I continue to buy shares in fillies that Cam Pedersen could run past!

That slow eh!

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yes but that is a seperate issue.

If the Demons are 5 points down at the 29 minute mark. I am thinking of only the match. The game, not the finances in my wallet.

Some people do. But if gambling is ever banned footy will survive. Racing would not.

I see your point.

Problem is that these "other" sports are starting to rely (to some degree) on the income they receive from sports betting. Will they survive? Most likely, but start taking that multi million dollar income stream away and that money will need to be taken from somewhere else.

Horse racing has relied and survived on betting for centuries, and it's basically how the "sport" was developed. It's not new to them, and it's pretty much a part of the rules. It'd be like taking the goal posts off a footy field. Point is, there will always be people that have horse racing as their chosen "sport", and if betting is one of the "rules" you need to follow to particpate, they will do it.

Sorry WYL, this whole "take betting away and horse racing won't surive" isn't my favourite subject. I find it a boring one in all honesty - up there with "is horse racing sport"! (No offence!).

[The Chazz 4,077]

That slow eh!

If Cam, yourself and I ran against her Old Dee, I know who/what I'd be leaving out of the trifecta, and it isn't the ones with 2 legs (although you could be mistaken that she has had a couple cut off!!!).

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

billy there would be no Horse Racing without money being bet on the outcome.

As you say it is part of the rules & has been since day 1

[daisycutter 29,259]

3aw said the hun would be listing all the members of the punters club in tomorrow's little paper

[rjay 24,567]

I see your point.

Problem is that these "other" sports are starting to rely (to some degree) on the income they receive from sports betting. Will they survive? Most likely, but start taking that multi million dollar income stream away and that money will need to be taken from somewhere else.

Horse racing has relied and survived on betting for centuries, and it's basically how the "sport" was developed. It's not new to them, and it's pretty much a part of the rules. It'd be like taking the goal posts off a footy field. Point is, there will always be people that have horse racing as their chosen "sport", and if betting is one of the "rules" you need to follow to particpate, they will do it.

Sorry WYL, this whole "take betting away and horse racing won't surive" isn't my favourite subject. I find it a boring one in all honesty - up there with "is horse racing sport"! (No offence!).

Because it is true….and it isn't a sport.

…and gambling in AFL is going to be a much bigger problem than drugs although there is a link between the 2. Courting the gambling industry is the biggest mistake the game has made.

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

Because it is true.and it isn't a sport.

and gambling in AFL is going to be a much bigger problem than drugs although there is a link between the 2. Courting the gambling industry is the biggest mistake the game has made.

Like.

[binman 41,906]

Horse racing not a sport? You have to be kidding right. For gods sake it is the Sport of Kings. It is one of the great sports, involving incredible athleticism and courage. Try telling a jockey he is not a sportsmen.

And since when is the definition of sport been that it has to stand alone without betting?

Edited December 13, 2013 by binman

[GM11 740]

Reported in THE AGE that McLardy put in $168,000 around January this year. And maybe a few other unnamed Melbourne identiles did too. An Annus Horribillis for Don.

The way I read it there are 2 entities here - the racing syndicate & an off-shoot punting club.

The question is did the financial lines between the two become blurred?

I have sympathy for anyone who had money in the racing syndicate with the aim of buying Jimmy. Probably a worthwhile gamble on the face of it.

Anyone who puts money into a racing syndicate has to know there are no guarantees and be prepared to lose out.

But did these investors know about the punting club?

[old dee 23,459]

If Cam, yourself and I ran against her Old Dee, I know who/what I'd be leaving out of the trifecta, and it isn't the ones with 2 legs (although you could be mistaken that she has had a couple cut off!!!).

Perhaps she needs an asthma pump billy?

Considered that option

[old dee 23,459]

3aw said the hun would be listing all the members of the punters club in tomorrow's little paper

If all the details expired on the computer in the ute how do they know?

[Redleg 39,937]

I'm not sure that is an "industry standard" situation Redleg. There would be no way that bigger studs like Vinery would pay $20m for All Too Hard (appropriate name for a beast serving 150+ mares a year!), with the view of recouping money from the 20-40 serves you speak of. Someone like Darley, who wouldn't have a need for shareholders, I think you would find a large percentage of successful serves would be funding and maintaining their dominance in horse racing in Australia.

Further to that, you mention a sire's best price is his initial season. That's true for the first couple of seasons, but let's not forget that it can increase tenfold after that 3rd year should his horses start winning Group/Listed races, especially as 2 year olds. Redoute's Choice's first season as a sire saw him with a $30k service fee. Didn't take long for that to increase signficantly, with his service fee in 2013 being around $137k per successful service (which isn't his personal best either I might add - pre GFC he was around or over $200k!).

It's a big risk, but the reward can be well worth it. I personally am not in a position to be able to get involved to that level, but if money wasn't too much of an issue, it's something that I would absolutely consider. In the mean time, I continue to buy shares in fillies that Cam Pedersen could run past!

Agree with most of that.

Remember most stallions fail at stud for various reasons.

[pitmaster 3,426]

How big a dope is Don McLardy?

Really, some people have more money than is good for them. Makes you wonder how they made it in the first place.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Perhaps she needs an asthma pump billy?

Considered that option

I have considered some pump action, Old Dee, but not of the asthma variety!!!

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

Horse racing not a sport? You have to be kidding right. For gods sake it is the Sport of Kings. It is one of the great sports, involving incredible athleticism and courage. Try telling a jockey he is not a sportsmen.

And since when is the definition of sport been that it has to stand alone without betting?

Would you take an interest in Horse Racing if all betting was outlawed tomorrow?