MELBOURNE TEAM FOR ROUND 1, 2014

[richyrich 44]

B: Grimes Frawley Garland

HB: Terlich McDonald Howe

C: Blease Viney Michie

HF: Watts Clark Trengove

F: Dawes Hogan Kent

R: Gawn Tyson Cross

I.C: N.Jones, J.Fitzpatrick, Vince

Sub: Tompass

Emm: Kent, M.Jones, Evans

What I like about all the posts here so far is they illustrate what a strong spine this team has. There is a potential that I have no idea about football and what looks on paper as a strong team but I honestly get excited by the likes of Frawley, Grimes, Garland, Tompass, Viney, Tyson, Clark, Trengove, Hogan, Dawes, Gawn have to offer. I think there is a real potential for a very competitive team here. It lacks enough classy players for a deep finals birth but there is a top 8 team here in the medium term future and that's exciting enough after eight years!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Like the Howe to half back idea. He's a long penetrating kick and has the physical tools to match up on lots of different players. Also like the midfield focus. Don't like Dunn in the team when you've moved Howe to half back, seems unnecessary and think we need to get Tyson to the midfield mix as well. So I'd replace Dunn and put the replacement to half back and move Tyson to the bench. They have weaknesses for sure and aren't Malceski or Nick Smith but surely you can fit one of Terlich, Clisby or Strauss (or other options) from half back or lock down small defender.

Howe has to learn more responsibility, rather that just flying for everything. his endurance & run needs to be utilised more & his kicking to position is good, & should be honed to our benefit.

He has the tools to exploit his opponents running forward & could kick rebound goals from distance. He would also add agility from the kickouts & another good marking target, or recieve & run option from kickouts.

Re dunn, I had a list of players, but went with mostly experienced players, inc dunn in the 22, so the younger ones realise they have to push their way past the bigger stronger types to earn their spots.

At half back, I've tried to get as much run & footskills as possible for rebound... Moving Grimes to the 'pocket' if you will, to mind the small forward closely 'one on one' shutdown, & a cool head in the last line.

And I've tried to get as much physical maturity into the inside mid' crushes. Trenners to HFF to play defensive half-forward & in rotations.

Hogan to start as a leadup flanker, to add to our kickout targets, & provide some crash & bash thru the midzone war. Too soon to be thrown to the KPP wolves. let him play some flank footy before venturing down back for some cameo's on the 6'3'' types.

Maybe late in the year give him a taste of defence KPP play?

# we need to get off to the best start possible next year to facilitate letting the 'feeling' of the past few years go by the wayside. we have to start banging bodies & competing hard.

Edited October 23, 2013 by dee-luded

[Maggot 1977 263]

Back. Frawley, Garland,McDonald,Grimes, Terlich and Watts. There maybe other plans for Watts but I like his disposal and athleticism in defence.

Middle. Spencer, Viney, Jones, Vince, Tyson and Cross.

Forward. Clark, Dawes,Hogan, Howe, Evans and Trengove.

We have plenty of potential firepower forward and thus could leave Watts down back. There is some doubt, however, as to whether say Evans and Trengove can do the crumbing forward business when the ball hits the ground. And it will hit the groung a lot as our big forwards will not be outmarked very often.

Bench. Fitzy, Toumpas, Michie and pick 9.

If you include our new players and everyone is fit (unlikely but we can hope) then selecting a side actually poses many dilemas.(eg Matt Jones and Blease not in my side) Not a situation we have been familiar with in recent years

Spencer is our 3 best ruck option behind Jamar, Gawn

[John Dee 445]

Spencer is our 3 best ruck option behind Jamar, Gawn

Gawn >> Spencer >> Jamar

[Green Machine 63]

You may just see him rejuvinated GM! He has the skill set

I will believe it when I see it and I am quite confident that I won't. I would love to be proven wrong however.

[deanox 9,924]

May as well have a crack

MELBOURNE

B: Frawley Garland <I>Terlich</I>

HB: Grimes McDonald <I>Dunn</I>

C: <I>Toumpas</I> Jones Watts

HF: Dawes Hogan Trengrove*

F: <I>Kent</I> Clark Howe

R: <I>Gawn</I> Viney <b>Vince</b>

I/C: Fitzpatrick? <i>M Jones</I> <b>Tyson</b> <b>Cross</b>

Others (Fringe or worth persevering with next year at least): <b>Michie</b>, Blease?*, Clisby, McKenzie, Byrnes, Tapscott, Bail, Spencer, Jamar?*, <b>Pick 9</b>,

Others (not considered unless great preseason, on the list only due to youth and/or lucky not to get cut): Evans, Nicholson, Barry, Taggart, Strauss, Jetta

Out: Sylvia

? = can they be a consistent AFL player?

Bold = New players

Italic = MFC players who weren't listed

* = MFC players I've moved to another position.

Terlich and Dunn are my uncertainties. If Terlich can learn to defend he will be great but history with Roos is interesting. Dunn deserves his spot until he is usurped and I don't see anyone in the reserves last who takes his spot.

Edited October 24, 2013 by deanox

[deanox 9,924]

Just looking at mine above and wrote it looks better when the midfield depth on the bench is Cross, Tyson and Jones not Nicholson, Evans and Bail.

Also note, would not be surprised if Kent or Dunn miss out to allow genuine midfielders like Michie or pick 9 into the team, even if they don't play midfield.

One thing I see on my team is a restriction on options to rotate in except for the three on the bench and maybe Grimes. This is probably a fiction of having lots of tall forwards and of having "tall" medium/small defenders (Garland and Dunn) not "short" medium defenders who also rotate midfield when needed.

[deeko 952]

Howe has to learn more responsibility, rather that just flying for everything. his endurance & run needs to be utilised more & his kicking to position is good, & should be honed to our benefit.

He has the tools to exploit his opponents running forward & could kick rebound goals from distance. He would also add agility from the kickouts & another good marking target, or recieve & run option from kickouts.

I like the other points in your post 'Dee-luded' but don't agree with your commentary around Howe.

I think Howey suffered a lot from the "can't be stuffed's" last season as did many and he clearly went backwards from the year before.

His defensive efforts in his first year were quite good and I remember a couple games watching him continually run and harass. It seemed that the "can't be stuffed's" were super contagious and he copped a dose.

To say that he needs to learn more responsibility and stop flying for everything however is a little silly. It's his strongest asset and why we picked him up. Not for the hangers but because he is an exceptional contested mark.

I think every coach in the league would be encouraging him to just go for everything, including kick outs. There is no reason he can't do this when playing on the HFF anyway.

[old55 23,591]

Team to try to win R1:

B: Clisby McDonald Garland

HB: Terlich Frawley Grimes

C: Vince N.Jones Watts

HF: Hogan Clark Howe

F: Kent Dawes Fitzpatrick

R: Jamar Cross Viney

I: Trengove Tyson Michie

S: M.Jones

E: Gawn Toumpas Pick 9

There's many things I'm unhappy about in that line-up:

• Kicking skills in the back-line - need Watts to get back there as 7th defender, and also add a bit of height as needed
• Midfield is still 18th best altho we have closed the gap on 17th and the rest
• Forward line is top heavy - longer term Mitch should be 2nd ruck but not in R1 so Fitzy has to play to ruck, which really leaves us short one runner
• Jamar - who knows if he can still play at all, but for a winning R1 2014 line-up I'm unconvinced about the Gawn-Fitz combo

I can't find a place for Dunn in the backline even though he played there most of 2013 and maybe that's being unfair on him. I don't think Toumpas is up to the pace yet but I hope he and pick 9 are very quickly. I've cut Michie some credit and included him unproven on the basis that we traded for him for a reason. Cannot have both Cross and McKenzie.

That leaves 16 listed players unselected and they come with a variety of pedigrees and experience - 1st round draft picks, later picks, a whole bunch of RD picks and a couple of trades. Only 3 neophytes and one veteran - 12 players who should be in their best years:

• Byrnes, McKenzie, Dunn, Blease, Strauss, Pedersen, Magner, Nicholson, Evans, Barry, Tapscott, Jetta, Spencer, Taggert, Bail, Stark

It would be no surprise if half of them are gone at the end of 2014 but equally it would be a big disappointment if Roos and co can't find at least 4 quality role players from that group to add to the above set.

No doubt plenty of this will look laughable this time next year.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Fifty-5

[drdrake 3,178]

I always like to look at my best 22 and then our next 22, this gives an idea of the depth we have or in most cases don't have

Best 22

Clisby Frawley Garland

Grimes McDonald Terlich

Trengove N Jones Vince

Watts Dawes Howe

Hogan Clark Kent

Jamar Viney Tyson

Michie, Toumpas, Cross, M Jones

Next 22

Strauss Pederson Dunn

Jetta Nicholson

Blease McKenzie Barry

Tapscott Fitzpatrick Bail

Gawn Byrnes

Spencer Evans Taggart

Stark

Besides adding a midfielder with Pick 9, I think we will be looking for key talls with our last 2 picks from the draft.

[deejammin' 2,370]

my revised Post trade period, Pre Draft best 22

B - Colin Garland - James Frawley - Daniel Cross

HB - Jimmy Toumpas - Tom McDonald - Jack Grimes

C - Jack Watts - Jack Viney - Jack Trengove

HF - Jeremy Howe - Chris Dawes - Bernie Vince

F - Jesse Hogan - Mitch Clark - Dean Kent

R - Max Gawn - Nathan Jones - Dom Tyson

I/C - Michael Evans - Jordie McKenzie - Jack Fitzpatrick - Matt Jones

Emerg - Viv Michie - Dean Terlich - Dom Barry

Thats a quality lineup, Daniel Cross listed as back pocket though? Also you don't think we'd be a bit too tall with Fitzy + 3 tall forwards? I'd love to see this work but clearly those would be the two biggest concerns.

[InVINCEable 358]

Round 1 winners

Back: Colin Garland, James Frawley, Dean Terlich

Half-back: Jimmy Toumpas, Tom McDonald, Jack Grimes

Centre: *Nathan Freeman, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince

Half-forwards: Jeremy Howe, Jesse Hogan, Jack Watts

Forward: Jack Fitzpatrick, Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes

Followers: Mark Jamar, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson

I/C: Viv Michie, Daniel Cross, Jack Viney

Sub: Dean Kent

Emergencies: Rory Taggert, Max Gawn, Matt Jones.

[InVINCEable 358]

I really want Max Gawn to have a spot on the final team but i just can't take anyone off

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Round 1 winners

Back: Colin Garland, James Frawley, Dean Terlich

Half-back: Jimmy Toumpas, Tom McDonald, Jack Grimes

Centre: *Nathan Freeman, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince

Half-forwards: Jeremy Howe, Jesse Hogan, Jack Watts

Forward: Jack Fitzpatrick, Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes

Followers: Mark Jamar, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson

I/C: Viv Michie, Daniel Cross, Jack Viney

Sub: Dean Kent

Emergencies: Rory Taggert, Max Gawn, Matt Jones.

That may well be the tallest forwardline to ever play AFL. And I'm not necessarily suggesting that means it's a bust. Clark, Watts and Hogan all have great below the knees games for talls and Fitzpatrick is certainly quick and athletic. I'd like to see that forward 6 take the field purely in the spirit of experimentation and entertainment.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Goodvibes

[InVINCEable 358]

That may well be the tallest forwardline to ever play AFL. And I'm not necessarily suggesting that means it's a bust. Clark, Watts and Hogan all have great below the knees games for talls and Fitzpatrick is certainly quick and athletic. I'd like to see that forward 6 take the field just to see what would happen.

I think we need a small forward, but we won't use one, and i don't think you could take a forward out of their, all great players.

[InVINCEable 358]

That may well be the tallest forwardline to ever play AFL. And I'm not necessarily suggesting that means it's a bust. Clark, Watts and Hogan all have great below the knees games for talls and Fitzpatrick is certainly quick and athletic. I'd like to see that forward 6 take the field purely in the spirit of experimentation and entertainment.

All over 190 cm :3

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Fitzy will play backup ruck and swing forward of course.

Cant play with just 1 ruck. There is no chance Mitch Clark ever goes near the ruck again with that foot of his. He is well and truly going to be a stay at home full forward for the rest of his career (which is a great thing).

Disagree on Clark. There are no stay at home key forwards any more. Cloke even playing deep forward puts up over 10km a game. Mitch would be the same. And ruck contests aren't nearly as physical as they used to be. Boundary throw ins are pretty soft with this new 1m rule and in the middle they often don't jump anyway. In a lot of situations the way Mitch throws himself at the ball in the air he'd be safer roaming around the ground playing on a lumbering opponent than big pack contests as the key forward. Remember he injured himself going for a mark inside 50.

If Clark is back to full fitness then he plays in the role that helps the team. If he's not then he's pretty stuffed anyway.

I also can't understand the Jamar over Gawn selectors. Maybe it's a Paul Roos thing? Because besides one game on a wet night against the strongest ruck in the league Gawn faltered but he did very well in quite a few other games. He marks the ball, he follows it up at ground level and around the ground and his ruck work is improving as well. His size means the only way he'll ever get consistently beat up in a game is if he hits the wall as he did against the dogs. Plus he's both getting games under his belt and young enough that improvement can be expected.

Jamar on the other hand went weeks without any meaningful possessions. Has limited ruck work and can't seem to catch a cold yet alone take one of the strong grabs he used to back in his glory season!

I'd have Spencer just edging out Jamar as well based on some glimpses of talent he showed in 2013.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Thats a quality lineup, Daniel Cross listed as back pocket though? Also you don't think we'd be a bit too tall with Fitzy + 3 tall forwards? I'd love to see this work but clearly those would be the two biggest concerns.

I like this especially you have fully used our new Recruits. My only changes would be Lennon (pick 9) for Kent and put him on the bench for Evans who replaces Kent in the pocket, and swap Mckenzie for Cross

[Dees2014 2,377]

Round 1 winners

Back: Colin Garland, James Frawley, Dean Terlich

Half-back: Jimmy Toumpas, Tom McDonald, Jack Grimes

Centre: *Nathan Freeman, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince

Half-forwards: Jeremy Howe, Jesse Hogan, Jack Watts

Forward: Jack Fitzpatrick, Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes

Followers: Mark Jamar, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson

I/C: Viv Michie, Daniel Cross, Jack Viney

Sub: Dean Kent

Emergencies: Rory Taggert, Max Gawn, Matt Jones.

I hope it is a dry day given the height of our FF line. I'd be inclined to swap Watts with Freeman, and put him in the pocket for Fitzpatrick, who goes to HFF. Edited October 28, 2013 by Dees2014

[Dees2014 2,377]

I really want Max Gawn to have a spot on the final team but i just can't take anyone off

I'd have Gawn ahead of Jamar any day - he is our future. Needs hard competitive football which Roos will bring to the team.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Dees2014

[InVINCEable 358]

I'd have Gawn ahead of Jamar any day - he is our future. Needs hard competitive football which Roos will bring to the team.

I just don't think if we want to be more competitive we should put Gawn in the team, he and Fitzpatrick are both our future (not Spencer, terrible player), but i only wanted to chose one of them, and i think Fitzy is better.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I just don't think if we want to be more competitive we should put Gawn in the team, he and Fitzpatrick are both our future (not Spencer, terrible player), but i only wanted to chose one of them, and i think Fitzy is better.

I agree Fitzy is a better overall player, but he is more a forward/ruck. I think there are very substantial advantages in having a "man-mountain" (which Max certainly is) as first ruck, particularly when we come up against the likes of WCE or Freo.

Max will be a very important player for us in future I believe. Let's get game time into him now.

[InVINCEable 358]

I agree Fitzy is a better overall player, but he is more a forward/ruck. I think there are very substantial advantages in having a "man-mountain" (which Max certainly is) as first ruck, particularly when we come up against the likes of WCE or Freo.

Max will be a very important player for us in future I believe. Let's get game time into him now.

Yeah i guess, but obviously Roos sees that Jamar is going to be used alot if he didn't want to trade him.

[CBDees 3,167]

Round 1 > Another variation

Back: Colin Garland, James Frawley, Dean Terlich

Half-back: Jimmy Toumpas, Tom McDonald, Jack Grimes

Centre: *Nathan Freeman, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince

Half-forwards: Jeremy Howe, Chris Dawes, Jack Watts

Forward: ,Dean Kent Mitch Clark, Jesse Hogan

Followers: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson

I/C: , Daniel Cross, Jack Viney, Jack Fitzpatrick

Sub:Clisby

Emergencies: McKenzie, Rory Taggert, Matt Jones.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Yeah i guess, but obviously Roos sees that Jamar is going to be used alot if he didn't want to trade him.

Was it he didn't want to trade him, or he couldn't get value for him. I rather suspect it is the latter, in which case he is demonstrating yet again he knows what he is doing, and won't be taken for a ride like we have been in the past.