Seething about this group of players

[Mongrel Dee 56]

Agree with most of this RL have said before that we need to approach the umpires board and ask their advice on what we are doing wrong ie not criticising just asking advice.

I thought it was the coaches job to teach them about the rules...obviously they are just a dumb list or this is a coaching problem.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I honestly cant believe some posters have the gall to predict we are one or two mid-fielders away from being competitive.

So many experts here believe it.

Well I actually dont think they do, but they dont want to see if we blink. So they keep our chins up. Thanks...

That next to the "oh the umpires just dont get us" routine is sad and predictable.

Ive heard this shite for so long. Give me a break. Youre not talking to the faithful any more, believe me.

We are closer to the bottom than the top in terms of playing personnel, if fact we may be right at the bottom.

We have a few players that are serviceable and a few that may be capable of stepping up to the next level but we've been down for so long we grasp at anything we can. Players like Terlich and Matt Jones are good ordinary players but are constantly in our better players. Clisby is another who is just a player and I'm beginning to doubt players like Howe and Dawes who are, probably never get anywhere near where we think they should be.

None of the players apart from Clark, Frawley (if he wants to) Viney, Garland or Nate Jones have any potential to reach a higher level and we clutch at straws hoping a player that gets 20 possessions two weeks in a row will develop in to A grade material.

Our list sucks and our recruiters have filled it with the greatest bunch of no hopers ever to be assembled at a senior football club.

Neil Craig knows this and I reckon he's told the club and it may be the reason he will get the job; he tells it as it is no sugar coating.

I'm very impressed with Craig.

[Mongrel Dee 56]

We are closer to the bottom than the top in terms of playing personnel, if fact we may be right at the bottom.

We have a few players that are serviceable and a few that may be capable of stepping up to the next level but we've been down for so long we grasp at anything we can. Players like Terlich and Matt Jones are good ordinary players but are constantly in our better players. Clisby is another who is just a player and I'm beginning to doubt players like Howe and Dawes who are, probably never get anywhere near where we think they should be.

None of the players apart from Clark, Frawley (if he wants to) Viney, Garland or Nate Jones have any potential to reach a higher level and we clutch at straws hoping a player that gets 20 possessions two weeks in a row will develop in to A grade material.

Our list sucks and our recruiters have filled it with the greatest bunch of no hopers ever to be assembled at a senior football clu"b.

Neil Craig knows this and I reckon he's told the club and it may be the reason he will get the job; he tells it as it is no sugar coating.

I'm very impressed with Craig.

Jeremy Howe like most others have given up and that's the part that makes me very angry. Again and again players at this club believe they can get away with this lousy approach to their craft...it is pathetic.

As for NC his credentials are ok but almost certain that membership will be slower on the take up if he gets the gig. The club has to give supporters more than a shred of hope, NC is not getting the likes of Jeremy Howe to play with class and vigour and that worries me.

[CHAMP 347]

First date didn't go so well?

Advertised as Cougar, was actually not even a GILF.

[Giles 179]

The tanking & mishandling of players along with poor development and pathetic drafting has led to a cancerous culture. It's going to take a miracle to turn this club around.

Um... where was the 'tanking' Matt? Massive investigation by AFL found MFC did not 'tank'. Did you not know that?

[Giles 179]

I don't want to be an apologist. In fact apologists on here have been the bane of my existence every time I log in.

Truth is, no matter what Craigy or Nate Jones say, this season has been shot pretty much from round 1. The players know there will be another mass turnover of the list regardless of whoever is in charge. They also know that their football future is on the line and captive to the whims of a new coach. Wonder why blokes don't do any heavy work around the stoppages? Most of that revolves around the fact that most of them want to boost their disposal counts so they remain on the list next year. Because everyone wants the ball, no one gets it in the end. On top of that (this isn't me abdicating responsibility for the players so much as it is an objective statement of fact) these blokes have been ground into the earth so often, I wonder if many of them think if they can still play and win or not. They second guess themselves. They got some spunk back after Neeld was sacked but yet again, they have sunk back into their own pit of despair.

People on here have been annoyed at the players and I guess we can go back to Viktor Frankl's maxim that you are not free to choose your life's circumstances yet you are free to choose how you react to those circumstances. Yet, the club has been run by monkeys for so long that it's hard to take the nature side in the nature vs. nurture debate. Dean Bailey may have been quietly smirking to himself today if he took the time to consider his position in footy (assistant coach at one of the biggest clubs in Australia) versus Cuddles' and CS' position (unemployable).

If the admin. is put in place next year and the players still dog it then it will be hard for me to accept. Cuddles, Cameron and their band of merry men are now gone. I appreciate the damage their reign of error was never going to be cleaned up in the space of 12 weeks (some seem to think their foolishness could be cleaned up overnight and some were still confusing their foolishness with expertise right up till preseason this year) but there will be a long hard preseason ahead. That should be ample time for the players to begin redeeming themselves and well and truly burying the legacy of the past.

The next coach will need to restore some belief in these blokes. First they were told they were never good enough to amount to anything. Then they were told they weren't consistent enough. Then they were told they had to learn the basics of training again. There is some polish on the list (plenty of shockers too but some polish). Many of these blokes as well were told by Sir Mark that they were lazy and unprofessional. They need to be told 'You've got the talent. Your spot is yours to lose. Put in 100% and I can guarantee X position is yours.' The coach can't be a pushover but first things are first. While he doesn't need to stroke their ego, he does need to get some confidence back in these blokes.

Well said.

Especially like, "reign of terror". Haven't heard that since Superintendent Chalmers described Armin Tamzarian's principalship at Springfield Elementary.

[Jarka 767]

I hate watching us play now, I'm always expecting that we'll eventually fall back into the 'Neeld' inspired insipid patheticness. But I think that I'm so negative right now that I only see the crapness and are blind to any positives going out on the ground.

I've decided to force myself to judge them after a pre-season under a halfway decent coach, afterall the only thing we have left is hope. And Jesse Hogan.

[Guest]

Well said.

Especially like, "reign of terror". Haven't heard that since Superintendent Chalmers described Armin Tamzarian's principalship at Springfield Elementary.

I also believe Mark Neeld left the MFC on a motorcycle, yelling at Jack Watts Colin Sylvia and Chip Frawley 'UP YOURS CHILDREN!

Unfortunately Giles, I must continue the rich Demonland tradition of pedantry and point out I said 'reign of error'. Do I get double point for that incredibly clever play on words?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Guest

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Its time to go ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From the current so called players group please keep young Viney otherwise I don't care who is culled, sacked, traded etc.

I feel very little for this current playing group other then contempt, which for a member of the Club is not good.

[dazzledavey36 48,737]

Well only one more game and then its our festive season! :D

[Hannibal 5,814]

There seems to be two extremes on this site, i.e. we're only two or three mids away from being a finals team" to "we're stuffed and there's only 4 or 5 players on the list that are worth having or that will reach their potential". In my opinion neither is true.

While I won't get into "top 6" versus "bottom 6" to determine how good a team is, I firmly believe it's your senior core that determines your playing fortunes. There are plenty of young players at Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood that would look crap if they were running around for Melbourne. Posters would be saying, "Why did we pick up this dud ?". Our plight can be sheeted home to our dearth of quality senior players. It's the reason our midfield is ordinary and why we second guess ourselves all over the field.

It's the reason I don't believe our list is as bad as some, or that we're in the terrible plight some think we are. Robbief mentions that our only decent players are Jones, Frawley, Garland, Viney and Clark. Other than Viney, who is a rarity, those players have got games 100 games under their belt - Clark 97. It's why they've reached a level of competency. Other than Rodan and Davey, who are at the end, the only other players with over 100 games yesterday were Dunn and Sylvia. It's little wonder we are where we are. But it also doesn't mean we don't have talent on our list that is capable of being nurtured.

At Eade's first training session at the Dogs he asked players to stand on a particular side of him if they believed they belonged at AFL level. I don't believe anyone did. They didn't believe they belonged. Our players don't believe they belong and there's nothing more important than belief. At the end of his first season Eade asked the same question and this time nearly the entire playing list went to the side that said they belonged. They played finals in his second year and went on to play in 3 prelims. Btw, I reference this not to endorse Eade, just to show how teams can evolve under the right stewardship.

Earl Nightingale died in the 80's. He mentored from the 1950's. But he and others have got it right. "You become your thoughts". Your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Our players presently have no belief, but I reckon there's talent there to blossom. Whether you think much of Jack Fitzpatrick, or not, he's a classic example of someone who started to believe he belonged and showed what he's capable of.

Unlike some others, I don't want to go down the Chapman, Dal Santo, etc, path. I'm not averse to landing a quality young mid, but I don't want an old one. There's going to be more pain, but I want to develop through the draft and within. If we can get a David Swallow or Taylor Adams all the better. We do need more quality and senior players don't grow on trees, but with the right recruiting, developing, coaching and personal development programs this club can and will be turn our fortunes around. And it can definitely happen quicker than people think.

[Guest]

There seems to be two extremes on this site, i.e. we're only two or three mids away from being a finals team" to "we're stuffed and there's only 4 or 5 players on the list that are worth having or that will reach their potential". In my opinion neither is true.

While I won't get into "top 6" versus "bottom 6" to determine how good a team is, I firmly believe it's your senior core that determines your playing fortunes. There are plenty of young players at Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood that would look crap if they were running around for Melbourne. Posters would be saying, "Why did we pick up this dud ?". Our plight can be sheeted home to our dearth of quality senior players. It's the reason our midfield is ordinary and why we second guess ourselves all over the field.

It's the reason I don't believe our list is as bad as some, or that we're in the terrible plight some think we are. Robbief mentions that our only decent players are Jones, Frawley, Garland, Viney and Clark. Other than Viney, who is a rarity, those players have got games 100 games under their belt - Clark 97. It's why they've reached a level of competency. Other than Rodan and Davey, who are at the end, the only other players with over 100 games yesterday were Dunn and Sylvia. It's little wonder we are where we are. But it also doesn't mean we don't have talent on our list that is capable of being nurtured.

At Eade's first training session at the Dogs he asked players to stand on a particular side of him if they believed they belonged at AFL level. I don't believe anyone did. They didn't believe they belonged. Our players don't believe they belong and there's nothing more important than belief. At the end of his first season Eade asked the same question and this time nearly the entire playing list went to the side that said they belonged. They played finals in his second year and went on to play in 3 prelims. Btw, I reference this not to endorse Eade, just to show how teams can evolve under the right stewardship.

Earl Nightingale died in the 80's. He mentored from the 1950's. But he and others have got it right. "You become your thoughts". Your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Our players presently have no belief, but I reckon there's talent there to blossom. Whether you think much of Jack Fitzpatrick, or not, he's a classic example of someone who started to believe he belonged and showed what he's capable of.

Unlike some others, I don't want to go down the Chapman, Dal Santo, etc, path. I'm not averse to landing a quality young mid, but I don't want an old one. There's going to be more pain, but I want to develop through the draft and within. If we can get a David Swallow or Taylor Adams all the better. We do need more quality and senior players don't grow on trees, but with the right recruiting, developing, coaching and personal development programs this club can and will be turn our fortunes around. And it can definitely happen quicker than people think.

Pretty much BH. Our blokes have been told how terrible they are for so long, I think they believe it. People on here rant on about how they need to be caned like naughty school children in order to promote 'good culture'. Truth is while the new coach shouldn't be running some form of sensitive new age therapy for the players, he does need to reinsert belief. No one wants a situation where the players are cancelling their time trials but we don't want another situation where the senior coach is demanding a 19 year old rookie to stand up in front of his veteran team mates so that he can blast them. Like most things in life, the middle ground is where we need to be.

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

I believe PJ and the new coach will understand the need for focusing 100% on player, team and whole club development, don't be surprised if a few boys who you thought maybe weren't up to it start to show a little bit.

Trengove

Grimes

Sylvia

Howe

Watts

Tapscott

Mcdonald

Evans

Viney

Toumpas

Pick 2

pick 21

Gawn

Spencer

Fitzpatrick

all of these boys have the potential to at the very least be solid B+ footballers for the Melbourne footy club, the right coach might make a bigger difference than people think, if they can get this group believing again, confident again and help them enjoy playing footy again.

[DeeZee 6,732]

We just have to be very aggressive at the trade table.

We havevto trade good players and picks for three or four of the best mids we can find.

[What 18,810]

The losing culture instilled by Schwab and Connolly has killed us.

[baysidedave 246]

I feel like leadership is missing as much as the midfield, Trengove and Grimes are solid players but Grimes is a handy half back, and Trengove is a link up player and good tackler who has the potential to be more if his body comes good.

they aren't guys you'd follow into battle, for mine Garland, Clark, Frawley and Nathan jones are, a serious look at the leadership group and captaincy would be a pretty decent idea imo

the midfield group is full of potential but seriously needs support from some experienced heads, we need to look at blokes like Dal Santo, Sewell, Chapman, Corey and those sorts of blokes on 1-2 year deals to sure up the midfield short term, teach the kids and provide support.

Chapman(injured all the time) and Corey, no way, too old........Sewell and Del Santo maybe but would rather younger blokes

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,172]

The good sides are still led by a core group of quality 25+year old players and supported by a bevy of improving 21+ year old players. Our issue has been that Junior aside we have had a dearth of leadership for the past 6 years and now only have a small group of quality mid 20 year olds in Jones, Frawley, Garland, Clark and Dawes who are worthy of leading. Our improving 21+ year olds have either left ie: Scully, have not shown the level of expected improvement i.e: Trengove, Grimes, Watts etc... have been complete misses ie: Cook, Gysberts or due to poor choice, circumstance or lack of development appear to not be of the quality required ie: Tapscott, Strauss, Blease etc....

I am confident that the players in that mid 20s group whilst not being the most talented have the right work ethic and values to push the others below them and set the right tone going forward. I am confident that the players that we have drafted last year in Viney, Hogan, Toumpas, Kent, Terlich and Jones have the right level of committment, hardness and competitive animal to want to get the best out of themselves. Both these bode well for our longer term success if we build on this again at the draft this year. However how rapid our improvement comes from is heavily reliant on our actions over the preseason and what a new coach can do to improve the middle tier who have not come on.

Edited August 25, 2013 by big_red_fire_engine

[dpositive 1,547]

I thought it was the coaches job to teach them about the rules...obviously they are just a dumb list or this is a coaching problem.

You are right maybe its the coaches who need to be trained this could be a good approach to the umpires

I only say this as we are obviously doing something wrong

Alerting the umpires to this may make them reappraise the way they handle Melbourne matches Ie they may watch the opposition tactics more closely to see if they are also infringing

[dpositive 1,547]

I reckon all our players could be well served to read the Age article on Rance .

It probably wouldmt do the coaches any harm either

As coaching exercise It would be interesting to get a response from each player individually and to consolidate this into a feedback exercise including coaches thoughts

So many aspects of this article could begin a process of self examination and improvement

Oh well

[titan_uranus 22,351]

B-H's hit the nail on the head, so most would do well to read his post above.

I see potential in many of our players. What we need now is for those players to pull their fingers out and put the hard work in to make themselves good to great AFL players, and we need a coaching team that will do the same. We haven't had either of those over the last 5-10 years.

[Grimseyisgod 378]

We are closer to the bottom than the top in terms of playing personnel, if fact we may be right at the bottom.

We have a few players that are serviceable and a few that may be capable of stepping up to the next level but we've been down for so long we grasp at anything we can. Players like Terlich and Matt Jones are good ordinary players but are constantly in our better players. Clisby is another who is just a player and I'm beginning to doubt players like Howe and Dawes who are, probably never get anywhere near where we think they should be.

None of the players apart from Clark, Frawley (if he wants to) Viney, Garland or Nate Jones have any potential to reach a higher level and we clutch at straws hoping a player that gets 20 possessions two weeks in a row will develop in to A grade material.

Our list sucks and our recruiters have filled it with the greatest bunch of no hopers ever to be assembled at a senior football club.

Neil Craig knows this and I reckon he's told the club and it may be the reason he will get the job; he tells it as it is no sugar coating.

I'm very impressed with Craig.

i am holding back some serious anger when writing this.

Toumpas, Trengove, Grimes, Watts, Tom Mcdonald, Michael Evans, Max Gawn and maybe you might want to acknowledge Colin Sylvia (who will go top 3 in our Bluey)

maybe you want to actually acknowledge that these guys are the ones who have the potential to also take huge leaps forward and some of them turn into A- graders.

What you wrote wasnt pessimism, it was just full of crap

[Guest]

i am holding back some serious anger when writing this.

Toumpas, Trengove, Grimes, Watts, Tom Mcdonald, Michael Evans, Max Gawn and maybe you might want to acknowledge Colin Sylvia (who will go top 3 in our Bluey)

maybe you want to actually acknowledge that these guys are the ones who have the potential to also take huge leaps forward and some of them turn into A- graders.

What you wrote wasnt pessimism, it was just full of crap

They might GisG. However, you might also want to realize that we Melbourne supporters look at things with rose colored glasses. I believe RobbieF's point survives his exaggeration. We have been conditioned to accept mediocrity for so long that when a bloke gets 20 possies or more in a game that they might be something. I think Jordie Gysberts got 26 and 27 possies in his first two games. Now he can't get a game at North.

I sometimes look at our list and think we need to cut certain players (for the record, I'm talking about blokes who have been hanging around the place and not living up to their potential, not 250 game servants of the club). Sad thing is, I don't think I'm quite as vicious as others outside the MFC bubble would be.

I think the bloke who inspired your username is a case in point. He is coming back from injury but Grimes at the moment can find the pill but butchers it when he gets it. Probably a kid of great character but would he be an A grader at any other club? Doubtful. I think some of us overlook this when we talk of him.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Guest

[diesel 420]

What is this stupid cougar life ad? Get rid of it. The people who run this must be scum.

That's targeted advertising. Google bots have selected that ad for you based on your browsing history

[Slartibartfast 15,761]

This group of players are totally devoid of playing football that is competitive. Craig now admits the task of the next coach is almost impossible with the current list. This makes me very angry at those including g the players who brought this about.

There should be a hall of shame for those who have messed this club up.

It will take an almighty decision by Bartlett and PJ to get some seriously good people and a few players into this club in order for any supporters to cling onto any hope.

As for the playing list, they might as well go out on the slurp for all the use they are on game day.

Disgusted beyond belief in 2013.

You'd do better to direct your anger at those who produced the mess we are now in.

Bailey had a young group of players playing with confidence and enjoyment despite the beltings they received along the way. They could match it with teams around them and could get on a roll and destroy oppositions with great footy every now and again. Two years on and we'd kill for that position.

McLardy, Schwab, Connolly and Lyon are the one's you should be angry at. Inept management and governance, atrocious coaching selection process, newbie recruiting bloke who'd never done the job before and was put in charge at a critical time of the clubs development and the selection of a coach who had been rejected before the final cut at numerous coaching jobs before us. We didn't even do a psych test on him. Don't have to be Einstein to predict the current outcome.

Don't blame the players. They have been ill treated, abused, mismanaged and disrespected by their senior coach for two years, asked to play a terrible brand of footy and have lost confidence and self respect because of the blindingly inept process they have been put through.

I feel for the players. I won't blame Watts if he leaves because he's had enough of the place. Lets face it, we've done not one thing to earn his respect or his loyalty and if you're silly enough to think the relationship doesn't work both ways you'll never get it.

Thankfully things are changing but the previous administration and FD have taken this club to unimaginable lows and it's a leap of faith of the players to want to stay on.

Direct your anger where it's deserved and it's not the players.

[dee-luded 2,958]

when one of your top 3 highest paid players is Colin Sylvia you have serious problems, and we do

No I think you'll find that those players when kids were effected by our culture of that time...

if col went to the hawks he would have turned out different.

if he was at the bombers in 2003 he would have turned out a different footballer.

We have NOT successfully developed our kids since maybe around the mid 90's or late 90's.

Col has hung in there under all sorts of derision. at least he has been loyal even if he has not got the most out of himself.

Its US that has to change, if we expect the club to change.

Edited August 25, 2013 by dee-luded