Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[rjay 24,045]

All I know is what we all know from recent public statements. Gill and McDevitt have flatly denied any deal is on the table.

Any discussion between Gill and Little is probably general in nature and about tactics available. Clearly the players need to agree to any deal.

Smoke and fire 'Redleg'...I would hope the players were the only ones consulted, the club have no place getting in the middle of this. Well not only in the middle but at the head of the cue.

My point is that the media seem to think this is all happening but surely these discussions should only be taking place with the players if they are happening at all.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Busy yesterday but I've just read this piece by Patrick Smith who I believe is best at distilling through the spin about the ASADA/Cronulla decision and its implications for Essendon. Our athletes and swimmers are correctly stunned at what's happened but one should never be surprised at what power and political influence can achieve. Nevertheless, we are looking at a lengthy period during which we are going to be on the nose in the eyes of the sporting world as a consequence of the Cronulla decision.

Everyone’s a dope when an ill-equipped authority meets two inadequately prepared codes

Thanks for the heads-up on this one Jack. Smith has been a small voice of sanity throughout the whole saga and this piece continues in that tradition.

I don’t have too many problems with the Cronulla players’ reductions (I would if this happens with the Essendon players given their club’s obstructive behaviour) because, as McDevitt is quoted as saying, they were probably duped. Yes, athletes have full responsibility etc but for an individual athlete the expected improvement of whatever drug s/he takes is to her/his individual performance and whatever prizes, awards, medals are available. The improvement to one or two or even a dozen team players won’t necessarily have the same direct relationship to premierships etc (a Brownlow or other personal award/benefit is a different issue, though, isn’t it Jobe?)

So maybe the same suspension/expulsion rules don’t have to apply when a team is involved. But it's what needs to be done about the other side of McDevitt’s conclusion that the players were duped that really matters: what should happen to those who did the duping? Dank is one problem dealt with, but Cronulla itself? Like Essendon, they copped a whack earlier (more significant than Essendon’s, if I remember). But now that we (or at least ASADA) have something like proof of systematic doping by a football club, everything seems to have gone nice and quiet about the provisions for banning/suspending etc such organisations.

This is where politics, money etc are starting to talk too loudly. I’m assuming that Little and his lot are arrogant enough to assume nothing else is going to be done about them and any action will be against the players only so that they (the dupers) can look like saviours to the duped the longer they hold off the imposition of any penalty with court cases, appeals and so on.

That might explain the strange silence/unwillingness to act on the part of any Essendon players or former players. This one I just don’t understand. It’s as if they actually still believe in the people who (surely they know this) comprehensively betrayed their trust in the first place.

[beelzebub 22,317]

thanks folks...walls finally breached

I wasnt aware Armstrong had been offered a deal. Seems theres a trend amongst the ultra-ego type that they just cant say they did anything wrong.. and then procede to cut of nose to spit their face.Exactly what EFC and Golden boy are doing. They need to look outward and see the likely result.

[sue 8,477]

So it seems that Essendon's plan is to delay till after the finals through the legal action, then get a ban over summer. It will be a summer sport watching how the team doesn't do its pre-season program in those circumstances. Disgusted.

[beelzebub 22,317]

So it seems that Essendon's plan is to delay till after the finals through the legal action, then get a ban over summer. It will be a summer sport watching how the team doesn't do its pre-season program in those circumstances. Disgusted.

Id really like to see the Sporting community get louder and more annoyed. Olympians etc have ever right to be dismayed and disgusted.

Need some maverick pollie to sugggest a private members bill to look into this kinda thing.. Not the deed per se, but the aftermath and colluded coziness that seems to be the way of the prima-codes.

[Axis of Bob 10,373]

Welcome back James Hird: Essendon are still a mess

[daisycutter 28,684]

after reading news corp's nauseous coverage of the triumphant return of the messiah

i am eagerly awaiting the announcement of a ticker tape parade and the handing over of the keys of the city

ffs

[robbiefrom13 877]

Id really like to see the Sporting community get louder and more annoyed. Olympians etc have ever right to be dismayed and disgusted.

Need some maverick pollie to sugggest a private members bill to look into this kinda thing.. Not the deed per se, but the aftermath and colluded coziness that seems to be the way of the prima-codes.

If Essendon end up accommodated by the AFL, our response should be a boycott of the AFL. Enough's enough.

The game is no longer a game, no longer sporting, but instead a power play by corporate thugs with legal teams. Not what I used to enjoy, or believe in.

"AFL, there's no elastic left in the public - you really have to restore supporters' faith in the integrity of the game. If you don't straighten this out, see you later we won't be back. How stupid do you think we are?"

Edited August 25, 2014 by robbiefrom13

[nutbean 8,837]

Essendon still trying to set the agenda. Theyll be knocked back into their Little box soon enough .

I keep seeing lots with this view on the likely outcome but I am not so sure.

There is a huge difference between what should happen and what we want to happen and what will actually happen.

I have to hand it to Essendon - they have turned what should really be an easy matter of done wrong and convict into a smelly confused muddlefest where they are determined that if they are going down they are going take as many down with them as possible.

[rjay 24,045]

thanks folks...walls finally breached

I wasnt aware Armstrong had been offered a deal. Seems theres a trend amongst the ultra-ego type that they just cant say they did anything wrong.. and then procede to cut of nose to spit their face.Exactly what EFC and Golden boy are doing. They need to look outward and see the likely result.

I'm starting to think Essendon will get away with little or no penalty. I think this is wrong but my faith, well I have none in the integrity of the AFL and the competition nor the politicians that run our country (both parties)...

[beelzebub 22,317]

I keep seeing lots with this view on the likely outcome but I am not so sure.

There is a huge difference between what should happen and what we want to happen and what will actually happen.

I have to hand it to Essendon - they have turned what should really be an easy matter of done wrong and convict into a smelly confused muddlefest where they are determined that if they are going down they are going take as many down with them as possible.

yes, but down they will go. Theyve decided upon the all or nothing route it seems. With the NRL muck out of the way ASADA can and will concentrate on Essendon. Benny Boy has , in a veiled way,signaled he's out to get them.

ASADA will re issure SCNs if required. There will now be NO leniency. EFC are stalling for time to minimise impact on affected players upon the list. This they are succeeding in to date, granted, but it wont go on for ever. 2015 might prove a tad hard for the Bombers

[sue 8,477]

That article in the Guardian sums it up well. I enjoyed this line:

"To paraphrase Steve Baker from The Footy Almanac, it was the work of a club that not only has its head up its own arse but thinks that the view is spectacular."

[beelzebub 22,317]

Welcome back James Hird: Essendon are still a mess

Very good article...thanks for the link

[jazza 1,323]

I get this awful feeling in me gutz.

The deal may be done.

Backdated to end of report{thats not the players fault}sometime around feb/march

12 months suspended ban{not the players fault}

Back by start of next season.

The players arent allowed at the club from end of season until feb 20th

Of course nobody will be able to track players doing preseason overseas{france?}

Next year the afl and onside media tell us how great efc has recovered from shocking bans.

Lets all applaud this wonderful club.

If this eventuates and supporters continually boo and throw plastic sirynges onto the ground,the media will tell us how horrible we are.

[biggestred 4,377]

ASADAs Ben McDevitt unaware of player sanction discussions between Gillon McLachlan and Paul Little

LOL

[beelzebub 22,317]

ASADAs Ben McDevitt unaware of player sanction discussions between Gillon McLachlan and Paul Little

LOL

Gill the Dill, what else can I say

[beelzebub 22,317]

The AFL still think, just like Essendon , that they are special, beyond accountability.

Wouldnt think Middleton would be impressed.

[daisycutter 28,684]

sounds more like hun spin - what a despicable lot when it comes to objective reporting

and yes gill is looking more the dill

listened to a recently ex afl commissioner on the radio today. just happened to be a top foxtel honcho

[Whispering_Jack 28,091]

More Patrick Smith:-

The AFL needs to stop making deals — and conversations

From all of this the AFL must have learnt something. McLachlan would have been a dill to strike out on his own to settle a proposal on penalty and timing for the Essendon players. The distaste the public had for the badgering manner the AFL went about resolving problems was palpable when more details of the Essendon penalties were discovered. It exploded as the AFL’s intrusive role in setting the pace of the ASADA inquiry became public in the Federal Court. The AFL needs to make no more deals. Even conversations can get everybody talking."

[felixdacat 459]

Just to change the focus from the HUN rubbish. Late night reading of the WADA Code uncovered this beauty.

10.6 Aggravating Circumstances Which May Increase the Period of Ineligibility

If the Anti-Doping Organization establishes in an individual case involving an anti-doping rule violation other than violations under Articles 2.7 (Trafficking or Attempted Trafficking) and 2.8 (Administration or Attempted Administration) that aggravating circumstances are present which justify the imposition of a period of Ineligibility greater than the standard sanction, then the period of Ineligibility otherwise applicable shall be increased up to a maximum of four (4) years unless the Athlete or other Person can prove to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel that he or she did not knowingly commit the anti-doping rule violation.

[Comment to Article 10.6: Examples of aggravating circumstances which may justify the imposition of a period of Ineligibility greater than the standard sanction are: the Athlete or other Person committed the anti-doping rule violation as part of a doping plan or scheme, either individually or involving a conspiracy or common enterprise to commit anti-doping rule violations; the Athlete or other Person Used or Possessed multiple Prohibited Substances or Prohibited Methods or Used or Possessed a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method on multiple occasions; a normal individual would be likely to enjoy the performance-enhancing effects of the anti-doping rule violation(s) beyond the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility; the Athlete or Person engaged in deceptive or obstructing conduct to avoid the detection or adjudication of an anti-doping rule violation.

I reckon Paul Little and Wonder Boy have Aggravating Circumstances written all over them.

I know it is not going to happen but one can dream can't one. Imagine the HUN headline if they increased the penalty.

Edited August 26, 2014 by PugtheMagician

[Whispering_Jack 28,091]

It looks like September is going to be an interesting time for the AFL and not only for what's going to be happening on the field.

My prediction is that if Middleton J's Federal Court decision goes against the Bombers, there will be a backroom deal of some sort done and, on the basis of what was offered to Cronulla players, it will involve a significant number of wet lettuces being handed out.

Bombers would have missed finals under ASADA deal

So the players were "duped" or, as Caro puts it ... "ASADA is understood to have told the Essendon players' legal team that it had compiled evidence they had taken the banned Thyamosin Beta 4 but that it accepted they had done so unknowingly."

September may well be the month in the game's history in which a club will be taking part thanks to legal manoevring rather than sporting prowess alone and what shame that would bring upon this sport?

Poor old Wade Lees, the former Casey Scorpions who served an almost 2 year suspension for ordering a banned weight loss supplement which he never received was also "duped" and so were hundreds of athletes worldwide who have received bans of up to two years for unknowingly taking banned substances given them by their coaches and/or crooked sports scientists.

But what is to be done with those who had a hand in the "duping" of the players, the ones who provided the waiver letters, the doctors, sports scientists, the coaches involved and the club itself?

And what of the hundreds of thousands of supporters who thought we had a clean sport run by people with integrity?

That day in February 2013 will certainly go down in my mind as the blackest day in Australian sport and especially, for its two major football codes.

[Deecisive 1,662]

I would love to see some of the presidents of other clubs, melbourne included come out and can both the AFL and Essendon over this, this is sending the wrong signal to sportsman and to kids, saying that if you can come up with a good or even not so good story we will look the other way.

[jnrmac 19,317]

It looks like September is going to be an interesting time for the AFL and not only for what's going to be happening on the field.

My prediction is that if Middleton J's Federal Court decision goes against the Bombers, there will be a backroom deal of some sort done and, on the basis of what was offered to Cronulla players, it will involve a significant number of wet lettuces being handed out.

Bombers would have missed finals under ASADA deal

So the players were "duped" or, as Caro puts it ... "ASADA is understood to have told the Essendon players' legal team that it had compiled evidence they had taken the banned Thyamosin Beta 4 but that it accepted they had done so unknowingly."

September may well be the month in the game's history in which a club will be taking part thanks to legal manoevring rather than sporting prowess alone and what shame that would bring upon this sport?

Poor old Wade Lees, the former Casey Scorpions who served an almost 2 year suspension for ordering a banned weight loss supplement which he never received was also "duped" and so were hundreds of athletes worldwide who have received bans of up to two years for unknowingly taking banned substances given them by their coaches and/or crooked sports scientists.

But what is to be done with those who had a hand in the "duping" of the players, the ones who provided the waiver letters, the doctors, sports scientists, the coaches involved and the club itself?

And what of the hundreds of thousands of supporters who thought we had a clean sport run by people with integrity?

That day in February 2013 will certainly go down in my mind as the blackest day in Australian sport and especially, for its two major football codes.

Sorry Jack I disagree. You can't have a system where Ess goes to court, loses and then says to the AFL Ok lets do a deal where we admit things and you give us a 3m ban over summer so we don't miss any games.

Flies in the face of any common sense and people would be justifiably outraged. Particularly other athletes from other codes.

[Ungarie boy 233]

If Essendon end up accommodated by the AFL, our response should be a boycott of the AFL. Enough's enough.

The game is no longer a game, no longer sporting, but instead a power play by corporate thugs with legal teams. Not what I used to enjoy, or believe in.

"AFL, there's no elastic left in the public - you really have to restore supporters' faith in the integrity of the game. If you don't straighten this out, see you later we won't be back. How stupid do you think we are?"

Not boycott the AFL, just games involving Essendon (both live and on TV). The AFL will quickly take notice of that. Spread the word, this message will only be effective if supporters of all other clubs come on board.

but as stated "Enough's, Enough"!

[beelzebub 22,317]

Sorry Jack I disagree. You can't have a system where Ess goes to court, loses and then says to the AFL Ok lets do a deal where we admit things and you give us a 3m ban over summer so we don't miss any games.

Flies in the face of any common sense and people would be justifiably outraged. Particularly other athletes from other codes.

I agree that cant be the outcome. I dont think its what McDevitt wants either . The AFL is desperate to sweep this under the carpet now.

Timing becomes an interesting thing . The AFL isnt too far off sorting out its next TV rights deal. It isnt going to want any uncertainty lingering regards how many teams , bans etc during this process. Gill the Dill will be especially aware of how that might dilute things. Might he be more motivated than some to expedite the Windy Hill saga? Happy endings style ( delib)

I think WADA/ASADA sees the AFL thing as much more crucial to its governance than the League stuff up. Cant see Ben allowing a whitewash to occur on his watch. Gill and Paul are far too cozy. If this just 'goes away" my interest in footy will drop 50% and its not fabulously high atm .

Hopefully ASADA have some balls