Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

The plot thickens - AFL sent specimen samples of Essendon players overseas in 2012, months before club self-reported

Jesus. That has got to be the end of Vlad's reputation. No wonder he bailed early.

That is huge news if substanciated...

[Redleg 40,926]

Jesus. That has got to be the end of Vlad's reputation. No wonder he bailed early.

That is huge news if substanciated...

Calm down, AD was specific, that the ACC didn't name a club it was investigating to him. They have confirmed that. End of story.

About AD knowing about a suspect program at the Bombers before he rang them, everyone in football knew something was going on, but not exactly what. Balme confirmed that today on SEN.

As long as AD didn't say the words " you are being investigated by the ACC" then he has done nothing wrong in that respect.

This is starting to resemble the situation where 10 people signed witness statements, saying they saw someone murder someone and then the Defendant tries to get their evidence excluded from the trial, because they didn't initial every page, even though they signed the statement in front of a witness and are prepared to swear up to it in Court.

[beelzebub 23,377]

Calm down, AD was specific, that the ACC didn't name a club it was investigating to him. They have confirmed that. End of story.

About AD knowing about a suspect program at the Bombers before he rang them, everyone in football knew something was going on, but not exactly what. Balme confirmed that today on SEN.

As long as AD didn't say the words " you are being investigated by the ACC" then he has done nothing wrong in that respect.

This is starting to resemble the situation where 10 people signed witness statements, saying they saw someone murder someone and then the Defendant tries to get their evidence excluded from the trial, because they didn't initial every page, even though they signed the statement in front of a witness and are prepared to swear up to it in Court.

Remind me again how many clubs he rang with this concern ?

[Redleg 40,926]

As For Little saying how dare Harcourt mention the word Cancer in a medical conference, I say how dare you not mention it to the players and their parents.

Harcourt was discussing the evils of drugs with other medical people and clearly sharing info at a medical conference. That's what the medical profession does to try and improve their treatment of sick people. No individual was named.

The AFL is at least trying to care for the player's health by monitoring them. That is far better than waking up one day with an incurable disease, caused by a drug you were told to take, when perhaps an early detection may have prevented that scenario and even been preventable.

You should be ashamed Little, you too Doc Reid and every other individual responsible, who is now trying to cover their own skin.

This should be about the players and their health. The club and its personnel responsible for this and those now trying to cover it all up can go to hell.

[Redleg 40,926]

Remind me again how many clubs he rang with this concern ?

What? He rang the club concerned, the only one he needed to ring.

[ManDee 7,149]

Jesus. That has got to be the end of Vlad's reputation. No wonder he bailed early.

That is huge news if substanciated...

AD said he could not have known because he had not been told by ACC. The ACC did not investigate because they knew that they had not told AD.

AD most likely presumed it was Essendon and that is not a problem.

All this rubbish coming from the EFC is subterfuge. For goodness sake, if AD warned EFC he was trying to do them a favour, and in return Hird & co. want to repay that favour with what could amount to a jail term for AD.

This typifies the twisted, delusional belief held at EFC. They behave as if they are the victims in this matter. They are the perpetrators.

[beelzebub 23,377]

What? He rang the club concerned, the only one he needed to ring.

thats right. He didnt need to utter "you are being investigated by the ACC" He told them by calling them

[ManDee 7,149]

thats right. He didnt need to utter "you are being investigated by the ACC" He told them by calling them

BB are you suggesting that AD was in the wrong?

[beelzebub 23,377]

BB are you suggesting that AD was in the wrong?

of course he was

[ManDee 7,149]

of course he was

I disagree.

I think he was trying to do the right thing by helping EFC. I do not think he would be stupid enough to break the law, so he would have operated in a manner that was legal but let EFC know that they should clean up their act.

e.g. Listen, there is a club that has been up to no good. If I were that club I would clean up my act. The s4it is about to hit the fan, so if it is you guys do the right thing.

Hard to type s4it these days,

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Bomber thompson: players were briefed on the supplements and there is no risk of cancer..

But I thought you had no idea or records of what you took?

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

The stepping up of the PR war has been quite extraordinary and naturally the Murdoch empire whose Chief Executive, one Robert Thomson directs News Corp from New York and is a devoted Bomber fan, has been to the fore of that campaign.

Earlier this week News Limited publications sensationally revealed AFL chief medical officer Peter Harcourt's speech at a FIFA anti-doping sports conference in Zurich last November where he spoke of the AFL's suspicions of Essendon's illegal use of peptides and how blood samples were sent by ASADA to Cologne for testing. The Hird camp maintains that Harcourt's revelations are proof of some illegal joint investigation between ASADA and the AFL.

Last night on AFL360 the two hosts were involved in a discussion about the fact that the samples were negative i.e they showed nothing irregular in the players' blood. Whateley was convinced that this virtually exonerates the players and maintained indignance on their behalf. Robinson grinned along in agreement.

They miss the entire point of why world sport needs a stringent anti doping code with strict liability and an across the board standard of proof that will differ from the sovereign laws that apply to various countries around the world.

We need these laws because of sports scientists who operate ahead of the game with their technology and science to achieve a competitive advantage for their clients.

Let's take the case of a mythical athlete who I will call Lance A. In late 2011 and early 2012 he undertakes a supplements programme supervised by sports scientist D. He is injected with an untested drug called UBeaut which aids muscular development and also ingests a masking agent called Zorro which makes it difficult for current testing technology to detect the presence in Lance A's system of UBeaut and any other chemicals he's been taking along the way. Zorro is also a prohibited substance.

Then in July, 2012 USADA take Lance A's blood sample. You can be pretty certain that in August, 2012 the test results will come back negative because they don't even have a test for UBeaut. As technology improves - perhaps in five year's time, a laboratory might be able to detect the presence of UBeaut and/or Zorro in the blood sample if someone cares to look at that time but for now, Lance A is happily going about breaking world records in the 50k walk and living the high life off the back of million dollar endorsements from some chocolate bar company while his rival Fred B, a clean athlete struggles and has to sell some of his trophies just to make ends meet.

How Did Lance Armstrong Avoid a Positive Doping Test?

That is why the WADA Code doesn't just apply to impose sanctions on athletes who provide positive samples to their blood tests. There are a number of other ways to prove that an athlete has committed an anti doping violation and I have discussed these previously in this thread.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot more time and a great deal more detective work via the indirect methods to prove one's case against an offending athlete, especially when you're dealing with a sporting organisation which claims to have "lost" all records relating to its supplements programme except for one convenient vial of the "good UBeaut" which was found in the bootstudder's locker.

It's my understanding that ASADA has the power to operate in conjunction with other authorities when investigating suspected offenders but of course, that matter is now in the hands of Middleton J in the Federal Court and thankfully, not with Foxtel, the Herald Sun, the Australian or even the Age.

Screw what's going on down at Essendon. I'm so much more interested in the story of LanceA on UBeaut and Zorro and how a 50K walker can get a multi Million dollar endorsement from a chocolate bar company. Poor Fred B...

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Bomber thompson: players were briefed on the supplements and there is no risk of cancer..

But I thought you had no idea or records of what you took?

[ManDee 7,149]

Screw what's going on down at Essendon. I'm so much more interested in the story of LanceA on UBeaut and Zorro and how a 50K walker can get a multi Million dollar endorsement from a chocolate bar company. Poor Fred B...

I was told that Fred B has underworld contacts. He may even be a honey thief!

[binman 42,974]

Wj am I right in thinking this video has surfaced because hird introduced it as evidence in the current hearings to prepare for the case in August?

I thought i had seen something somewhere saying the above and just scanned a hard copy of the Age and realised it was in the Rohan Connolly article WJ posted earlier in this thread (not a bad article btw). The relevant quote is:

'Suspended Essendon coach James Hird’s lawyers on Wednesday used Harcourt’s speech, which managed to escape public attention for eight months and may otherwise never have emerged, to support their claim that a joint Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority-AFL investigation was illegal.'

The video is from November last year. How long has Hird and Essendon known about it. One presumes it didn't just fall in their laps now. Why haven't they jumped up and down about it before now if it is such a big deal? Perhaps they considered it an ace up their sleeves for use in just such an emergency. But the fact they have likely known its contents for some time makes Little's furious indignation seem a little hollow.

As Connolly notes 'shining a glaring light on the most ill-advised sports science program imaginable again does the Bombers no favours in a moral sense' and reflects how desperate they - and Hird in particular - are to embarrass and attack the AFL.

Link to article here

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

AD said he could not have known because he had not been told by ACC. The ACC did not investigate because they knew that they had not told AD.

AD most likely presumed it was Essendon and that is not a problem.

All this rubbish coming from the EFC is subterfuge. For goodness sake, if AD warned EFC he was trying to do them a favour, and in return Hird & co. want to repay that favour with what could amount to a jail term for AD.

This typifies the twisted, delusional belief held at EFC. They behave as if they are the victims in this matter. They are the perpetrators.

Yes i hear what you say. But if Vlad knew about this before it broke he should have stayed home rather than drinking champagne at the Olympic Junket.

I believe he knew a lot more than what is being reported but that has always been my view.

[ManDee 7,149]

Yes i hear what you say. But if Vlad knew about this before it broke he should have stayed home rather than drinking champagne at the Olympic Junket.

I believe he knew a lot more than what is being reported but that has always been my view.

I don't disagree, I think he had a very good idea of what was going on. But could he prove it? I say no, and therefore he did not know, he suspected.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

I don't disagree, I think he had a very good idea of what was going on. But could he prove it? I say no, and therefore he did not know, he suspected.

he didn't have to prove it. That was always going to happen via ASADA. Vlad would have been getting premium source info....

But to travel to the Northern Hemisphere whilst this was hotting up is a disgrace

[ManDee 7,149]

he didn't have to prove it. That was always going to happen via ASADA. Vlad would have been getting premium source info....

But to travel to the Northern Hemisphere whilst this was hotting up is a disgrace

I know he didn't have to prove it. I don't think travelling to the Northern Hemisphere is/was a disgrace. Poorly timed yes.

My response has been to "the end of Vlad's reputation" line you used earlier #6008 which I thought was wrong.

But I am happy to disagree.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Yes bummer was used as a noun, because it is a noun. Bummers is a plural noun.

You're sensitivity to this is coming from you. The term bummer or bummers most common usage has no homosexual meaning. To imply that its use in this case has homosexual meaning is patently wrong.

I ask you, if you were to describe the EFC would you say they were best described by,

a- Often highly destructive in nature, bummers became notorious among Southerners for looting and vandalism, and they did much to shatter the illusion that the Confederate Army was successfully defending its territory on all fronts. - Wikipedia

b- Old fashioned UK slang term for a homosexual man. -Urban Dictionary

It is nonsensical to describe the EFC by the latter.

I think bummers was used correctly.

All asked was "Is this necessary?". If you want sensitive why don't you look at your first reply to those three words.

You've gone to define bummers to mean a bad situation and now a nickname to part of the Union army in the American Civil war.

If you look at the further definitions in that original link I posted you'd see anal and homosexual references outnumbered your personal meanings. Even look at BB's reply.

His pun wasn't a reference to Major General William Tecumseh Sherman's Union army, nor wasn't he wasn't saying "the bad situationers".

I don't care how many obscure definitions you can Wikipedia, or you trying to justify sense using a hyperbole whilst also misconstruing what he was doing/meaning.

It was a cheap pun using a derogatory term.

Even if he didn't know that was another meaning of it, once he did saw someone was offended by it, he could have edited it.

If you think that's how the word bummers is used correctly then I implore you to walk up to someone and call them that.

Even better, please do it on a Saturday night, on Kings Street, preferably to a group of guys or bouncers.

Until then, you know where I stand.

Edited July 4, 2014 by PJ_12345

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Is it wrong that a big part of me just wants to see Bomberland burn?

everyone there has a different story that all contradict each other, they are led by the most manipulative and untrustworthy footy person that I can remember in James Hird

and every single person will argue tooth and nail that they are innocent regardless of what happens, even if they receive Bans it will be because ASADA is out to get them not that they have done something wrong

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

I know he didn't have to prove it. I don't think travelling to the Northern Hemisphere is/was a disgrace. Poorly timed yes.

My response has been to "the end of Vlad's reputation" line you used earlier #6008 which I thought was wrong.

But I am happy to disagree.

So am i. For a man on $2 Mill plus bonuses i think he should have been at the office in 2012 rather than at Cocktail functions.

[beelzebub 23,377]

My take on the Vlad 'intervention" is that had not AD called Evans on that particular occasion with that particular news then its more than likely the first Windy Hill would have been wise to events looming was when they got the knock on the door.

As it is they got a heads up "psssst...the feds are after someone and its going to happen real soon " and it allowed them to orchestrate their behavior and take 'preventative' actions that they might not have been able to otherwise.

I think AD's actions ( though to him possibly justified ) are reprehensible as it perverted the course of justice.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

So am i. For a man on $2 Mill plus bonuses i think he should have been at the office in 2012 rather than at Cocktail functions.

Mate, it was absolutely insane that he was allowed to leave Melbourne at the time, some leader, runs off when things get hard.

[rjay 24,928]

Calm down, AD was specific, that the ACC didn't name a club it was investigating to him. They have confirmed that. End of story.

About AD knowing about a suspect program at the Bombers before he rang them, everyone in football knew something was going on, but not exactly what. Balme confirmed that today on SEN.

As long as AD didn't say the words " you are being investigated by the ACC" then he has done nothing wrong in that respect.

This is starting to resemble the situation where 10 people signed witness statements, saying they saw someone murder someone and then the Defendant tries to get their evidence excluded from the trial, because they didn't initial every page, even though they signed the statement in front of a witness and are prepared to swear up to it in Court.

That's the way I read it too 'Redleg'.

The video is from November last year. How long has Hird and Essendon known about it. One presumes it didn't just fall in their laps now. Why haven't they jumped up and down about it before now if it is such a big deal? Perhaps they considered it an ace up their sleeves for use in just such an emergency. But the fact they have likely known its contents for some time makes Little's furious indignation seem a little hollow.

Link to article here

I seem to recollect something about this conference and Harcourt's speech being reported before but nothing much was made of it.

Now it seems to be the biggest news in town.

Maybe I'm dreaming...