Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[ManDee 7,343]

Paul Little, is complaining about the process and illegality of methods used in gathering information.

No mention made about the information being wrong, just that it was gathered illegally.

Essendon continue to blame everyone but themselves. A mention of EFC being punished for bringing the game into disrepute, as if that was the only punishment due to them. And that it was their punishment for Thymosin Beta4, it was not. The AFL punishment was broadly based around the program and its failings not the actual substances administered.

They are delusional.

I would suggest that the drawing out of this matter may give the AFL another opportunity for penalising them for again bringing the game into disrepute.

The spin about the AFL community supporting them is misguided. I think the AFL community feels for the players, not the club.

[beelzebub 23,390]

the dam will crack, there is no doubt in my mind... Just a matter of time.

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

There are supplements and programs to bulk you up that are not illegal.

If a small amount of research could have easily given the information then why are Essendon still claiming what was given to the players was not illegal ????

The Club certainly may have known what was going on - I am not so sure that the players were not duped.

Correct....And a 10 minute search online will tell you which ones to steer clear of....

[ManDee 7,343]

the dam will crack, there is no doubt in my mind... Just a matter of time.

I would like to see someone with integrity come out and tell the truth, that someone could be Jobe Watson. I think he is strong enough to tell the truth. I hope he does.

[Soidee 1,496]

Paul Little continues to blame everyone bar themselves. What an absolute tool and idiot. I know McDevitt and he is a formidable opponent. Little and the Essendon football club have never taken responsibility for what they did to their players.

I hope every player sues the collective backside off that club. Little is delusional and McDevitt is a seasoned evidence gatherer.

Bang bang bang !!!!

[beelzebub 23,390]

I would like to see someone with integrity come out and tell the truth, that someone could be Jobe Watson. I think he is strong enough to tell the truth. I hope he does.

As an accompaniment to this I would like to see Tim Watson break ranks with his old lot and put his son well and truly first. A decent father would.

(typo)

[Soidee 1,496]

Paul Little continues to blame everyone bar themselves. What an absolute tool and idiot. I know McDevitt and he is a formidable opponent. Little and the Essendon football club have never taken responsibility for what they did to their players.

I hope every player sues the collective backside off that club. Little is delusional and McDevitt is a seasoned evidence gatherer.

Bang bang bang !!!! Little will be embarrassed by his irresponsible and blame deflecting attitude.

[nutbean 8,838]

You may be blessing the average AFL footballer with more attributes than they possess, deanox. And don't forget that trust and teamwork are the catch cry of all clubs, and I have no doubt they were predisposed to trust much more than to question.

The spin about the AFL community supporting them is misguided. I think the AFL community feels for the players, not the club.

Without knowing what the players were told - how much they knew - I do feel for the players. I find it too convenient that the club stood up in front of the players and said you are going to take a new drug called "yadda yadda" and all the players had to do is punch it into a smartphone and get the all clear or dont take - and 95% of them didnt do this.

I think the players were told that this drug is approved and I think that will come out when the players sue the life out of the club for abusing their duty of care.

[ManDee 7,343]

Any switched on QC's out there looking to drum up a class action?

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

Absolutely disgusting by Essendon, if they have no case to answer they should just respond to the show cause notices, this is as good as confirmation they did it to me.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Any switched on QC's out there looking to drum up a class action?

Im waiting for that to happen...really

[chook fowler 19,734]

The arrogance of the bombers is breathtaking. Their approach is just plain dumb, forcing ASADAs backs to the wall. Doomed to fail and prolong their pain. Suits me.

[ManDee 7,343]

"We will not be bullied." Paul Little

Funny how often you hear a bully complaining about bullying when someone challenges them.

Taking ASADA to the Federal Court and blaming everyone but themselves sounds like the behavior of a trapped bully to me.

[beelzebub 23,390]

The arrogance of the bombers is breathtaking. Their approach is just plain dumb, forcing ASADAs backs to the wall. Doomed to fail and prolong their pain. Suits me.

the thing is ASADA hasnt got its back to a wall, its on the front foot. Essendon is like a possum running out of walls to hide in!!

[chook fowler 19,734]

the thing is ASADA hasnt got its back to a wall, its on the front foot. Essendon is like a possum running out of walls to hide in!!

Good point

[deanox 10,052]

I have a few questions to you as you seem to be well in advance of what is known

Fair questions, and I am only answering based on what I have read over the past 18 months. I'll do my best at providing sources:

you know the players weren't tricked ? - you know that the players were told that they taking something illegal - because if the club said this is all above board - no problem - then yes - they were tricked

I think I define tricked as slightly different to you. If a player is told by a doc "I am giving you a vitamin shot" but is actually injected with another substance, then that is tricked. The player had no way of knowing. In this case I believe they were told exactly what they were getting; they signed consent forms naming the substances [1]. Therefore they weren't tricked; they were negligent in not satisfying themselves through the known channels (i.e. the WADA app, an internet search, a phone call etc.) that the substances were legal. While I don't dispute the club is ultimately at fault, the responsibility rests with the players. Similar to an engineer who signs someone elses drawings without checking the calculations himself. The calcs might have been done by a senior collegue, but the person who issues the drawings will be responsible if the structure is inadequate and someone is hurt. The senior collegue is at fault but the engineer who signed is responsible.

Either way, if the players knew what was being injected (and they signed a consent form which listed illegal substances), then they have hardly been "tricked" have they. They are responsible for making sure all substances they ingest are legal. And as such they were negligent in not checking to confirm the substance was legal.

- you know that the players were told exactly what they were taking ? there seems to be some confusion as the club is still suggesting that they took nothing illegal

I believe this is disinformation spread on purpose. I don't believe they have lost any records. They were on the internal intranet which I know (from an insider) is backed up regularly to an external source. To lose these records means systematic deletion. Dank has publically stated that they took TB4 and AOD9064, and that he still has records[2].

Since then he retracted it, and said he actually took another substance.

Given ASADA recently reinterviewed the members of the supply chain [3], it seems most likely that ASADA have evidence showing that the illegal TB4 was actually ordered, paid for and delivered to Essendon.

[1] http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/there-were-banned-drugs-listed-on-the-consent-forms-given-to-essendon-players/story-e6frf9l6-1226637891974

[2] http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-science-of-stephen-dank-20130823-2shhd.html

[3] http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-reinterviews-key-essendon-witnesses-20140605-zrz6f.html

I understand if one player is asked to take something - one on one with a doctor - you would check - but this was a list wide program - it is not unreasonable if the club is asking the whole list to go on the program that they would have done their due diligence.

I don't disagree that the players were probably put in a situation where they expected that due dilligence had occured. I feel sorry for them, and think it is unfair that they are the ones who must suffer, because of the actions of others.

However, they were the responsible party. It was up to them to do their due dilligence, not assume someone else had done it for them.

The reason they must wear the punishment, no matter how unfair, is because of the precendent that would be set, and the avaialble loophole which would then be exploited by everyone. The only way to close that loop hole for everyone, is to make sure that even accidents are not excepted.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

[nutbean 8,838]

As an aside.

Goddard and Chapman must be hoping for infractions and suspensions - Essendon still has to pay 95% of the cap - to two players only !!!!!! Now that's a salary !

[deanox 10,052]

Without knowing what the players were told - how much they knew - I do feel for the players. I find it too convenient that the club stood up in front of the players and said you are going to take a new drug called "yadda yadda" and all the players had to do is punch it into a smartphone and get the all clear or dont take - and 95% of them didnt do this.

I think the players were told that this drug is approved and I think that will come out when the players sue the life out of the club for abusing their duty of care.

I agree 100% with this.

I think it is all but certain that the club and doctors told the players that the supplements were WADA compliant, and I hope they launch a civil suit against Dank, Hird and the Club.

It is dissapointing that the players took the club on face value. I bet no one in the AFL will do that again.

[deanox 10,052]

As an aside.

Goddard and Chapman must be hoping for infractions and suspensions - Essendon still has to pay 95% of the cap - to two players only !!!!!! Now that's a salary !

It is very interesting that even as insiders to the AFL, they were able to be convinced to move to Essendon with this threat hanging over their heads.

Chapman, I understand end of career, but surely Goddard and manager could see the risk?

[Whispering_Jack 31,267]

I just heard the Paul Little press conference on radio and, if I heard correctly, he stated in response to one question that Essendon self-reported and co-operated with the joint investigation which it is now challenging because it had agreed not to challenge the validity of the process. In other words, now that things haven't gone well for the club, they are prepared to breach that agreement. I don't think there's any basis in fact or in law for the challenge anyway but that extraordinary comment is mind boggling.

I don't understand how a challenge to the process is going to help the integrity and reputation of his players either. To the contrary, a successful legal challenge on the ASADA process will still leave the question of the integrity of the players open and most of the football world would still regard them as drug cheats.

Strangly enough, for a club that was calling for a swift end to the drug saga, the institution of court proceedings will only prolong it and make it harder for the players to get the minimum sanction on offer. The final nail in the coffin might be that if the saga is delayed much further, there's the possibility that ASADA or WADA might be able to apply the maximum penalty of four years rather than two which applies at the moment.

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

I just heard the Paul Little press conference on radio and, if I heard correctly, he stated in response to one question that Essendon self-reported and co-operated with the joint investigation which it is now challenging because it had agreed not to challenge the validity of the process. In other words, now that things haven't gone well for the club, they are prepared to breach that agreement. I don't think there's any basis in fact or in law for the challenge anyway but that extraordinary comment is mind boggling.

I don't understand how a challenge to the process is going to help the integrity and reputation of his players either. To the contrary, a successful legal challenge on the ASADA process will still leave the question of the integrity of the players open and most of the football world would still regard them as drug cheats.

Strangly enough, for a club that was calling for a swift end to the drug saga, the institution of court proceedings will only prolong it and make it harder for the players to get the minimum sanction on offer. The final nail in the coffin might be that if the saga is delayed much further, there's the possibility that ASADA or WADA might be able to apply the maximum penalty of four years rather than two which applies at the moment.

it came across to me as desperation, i can't imagine the club is going to shake the drug cheats label any time soon, this might haunt them for the next 50 years

[biggestred 5,266]

Wasnt there a rule that went something along the lines of if 2 or more players get bans then the whole team is banned?

[Whispering_Jack 31,267]

It is very interesting that even as insiders to the AFL, they were able to be convinced to move to Essendon with this threat hanging over their heads.

Chapman, I understand end of career, but surely Goddard and manager could see the risk?

To be fair, I think Goddard was already a Bomber when the darkest day took place.

However, if Crameri is one of the players to receive a show-cause notice, the Bulldogs recruiting bloke will be faced tonight. I think a few people might be lining up to sell him and the Doggies the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

[dees189227 12,453]

If Paul didnt think they did anything wrong then why did he accept getting kicked out of the finals. I hope it turns out they took something wrong otherwise this would have 18 months of nothing.

The thing is they will come out all pumped up like they did last year. Also bomber thompson putting a video on there website imploring all essendon fans to come out this weekend will mean a bigger turnout as its there home game anyway. We have to shut them out early like we did with richmond.

I just hope melbourne are ready to go.

But its nice to hear journos write about another club for once.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Wasnt there a rule that went something along the lines of if 2 or more players get bans then the whole team is banned?

yep.. It surprises me little ( npi ) is made of this.

I would have thought Essendon isnt so much on the verge of court action as it was extinction