The Keep Mark Neeld Thread

[DemonFrog 1,347]

One down and you all know who will be next!

Edited June 14, 2013 by TheBigFrog

[Deestar3 167]

I embrace the opinions of a Stuie. I now realise we had serious problems as a club off field & on field. The on field was highlighted by the 186 thrashing but that actually highlighted a problem that was already there. That in turn started a ball rolling that started to expose the problems of a dysfunctional club. The one legacy of the McLardy led board was they acknowledged this & gave the brief to the incoming coaching panel to it cut these cancers (Maloney etc) & start anew. I actually see parallels to the Pies. Even though they have been successful Buckley has realised the team & present culture is not what he envisages will carry the team forward. He is prepared to sacrifice short term pain for long term gain. He has the luxury of a nucleus of talented senior players who will tide him over whilst the younger players in his mould come through. We do not. We are developing these players who in future years will provide the correct environment for our younger players coming through. I agree the scoreboard is not so important. Unless you are in contention for the 8 , percentage is largely irrelevant. I would rather the players learnt to play the game rather than throwing them in defensive positions,just to reduce the margin. After all you can only lose 4 points?

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I embrace the opinions of a Stuie. I now realise we had serious problems as a club off field & on field. The on field was highlighted by the 186 thrashing but that actually highlighted a problem that was already there. That in turn started a ball rolling that started to expose the problems of a dysfunctional club. The one legacy of the McLardy led board was they acknowledged this & gave the brief to the incoming coaching panel to it cut these cancers (Maloney etc) & start anew. I actually see parallels to the Pies. Even though they have been successful Buckley has realised the team & present culture is not what he envisages will carry the team forward. He is prepared to sacrifice short term pain for long term gain. He has the luxury of a nucleus of talented senior players who will tide him over whilst the younger players in his mould come through. We do not. We are developing these players who in future years will provide the correct environment for our younger players coming through. I agree the scoreboard is not so important. Unless you are in contention for the 8 , percentage is largely irrelevant. I would rather the players learnt to play the game rather than throwing them in defensive positions,just to reduce the margin. After all you can only lose 4 points?

I would have agreed with you 5 years ago that the score board was not important. But you can only now worry about the final score for so long.

Its time for the MFC to start winning matches or at least to come close.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

U are very easily pleased C. It's been 7 years and no other club has gone through what we are going through.

Sticking by people could also spell the end of this club with players wanting to get out like never before.

And yet it's all Mark Neelds fault and he needs to get the chop for what he's been doing to us for seven years.

out of interest, Bing, is there any circumstance in which you would say Neeld had failed, and should be moved on?

I will say he has failed and should be moved on if he sees out his three year contract and we are still crap. I fully expect to see the rewards for all the groundwork starting to show by then with a middle of the table finish.

Neeld isn't the only problem and our midfield is dire, but the worst team performance in 40 years "talks". The effort levels "talk". List management "talks".

History will judge your and my stance accordingly.

The list management under Neeld has been rather good though. We've seen clear signs of development in the young players he's brought in, as well as some of the senior players still at the club (sadly not all). He's been very responsible with his list management. He gave the list he inherited a year to show him that they deserved to be kept on and then got rid of the ones who couldn't do so. He's brought in mentors for our current crop of young players, and the results are pretty clear to see. He's overseen the trade/draft period that netted us Hogan, Toumpas, Viney, Dawes, Barry, Kent, Jones and Terlich, as well as spearheading the push to land Clark. I call the last two years the best trade/draft years we've had in a decade or more.

The longer this year goes on, the more we are seeing just how badly run our club has been. There are deep issues that have been festering and poisoning every level of the club and it is going to take time and effort to get them sorted out. The poor playing list and terrible on-field performances are merely one aspect of this. In some ways I'm actually happy we are going so badly as if we were playing well the spotlight wouldn't be shining so much on our club and these issues might have continued to lurk under the surface, obscured by the illusion of success. As things stand, we appear to have hit bottom, and in doing so have draw attention to the deeper flaws in our club. The AFL is getting involved, we are seeing people from outside the "boy's club" being placed into positions of authority with a license to take real action and we are starting to see some results. Things are going to improve from here regardless of who is coaching.

[bing181 8,176]

Yes and they will, Liam Jurrah was defended on this board after assaulting young females, make no mistake, Mark Neeld will be defended even after his sacking.

Am I allowed to say "[censored]"? If not, I withdraw having just said it.

No-one defended Jurrah's actions.

(I see that the word I had originally used has been automatically replaced by "censored". The Demonland software saving us from ourselves.)

[DemonFrog 1,347]

And yet it's all Mark Neelds fault and he needs to get the chop for what he's been doing to us for seven years.

I will say he has failed and should be moved on if he sees out his three year contract and we are still crap. I fully expect to see the rewards for all the groundwork starting to show by then with a middle of the table finish.

The list management under Neeld has been rather good though. We've seen clear signs of development in the young players he's brought in, as well as some of the senior players still at the club (sadly not all). He's been very responsible with his list management. He gave the list he inherited a year to show him that they deserved to be kept on and then got rid of the ones who couldn't do so. He's brought in mentors for our current crop of young players, and the results are pretty clear to see. He's overseen the trade/draft period that netted us Hogan, Toumpas, Viney, Dawes, Barry, Kent, Jones and Terlich, as well as spearheading the push to land Clark. I call the last two years the best trade/draft years we've had in a decade or more.

The longer this year goes on, the more we are seeing just how badly run our club has been. There are deep issues that have been festering and poisoning every level of the club and it is going to take time and effort to get them sorted out. The poor playing list and terrible on-field performances are merely one aspect of this. In some ways I'm actually happy we are going so badly as if we were playing well the spotlight wouldn't be shining so much on our club and these issues might have continued to lurk under the surface, obscured by the illusion of success. As things stand, we appear to have hit bottom, and in doing so have draw attention to the deeper flaws in our club. The AFL is getting involved, we are seeing people from outside the "boy's club" being placed into positions of authority with a license to take real action and we are starting to see some results. Things are going to improve from here regardless of who is coaching.

1. Yes its is his fault as Dons has now left and he should take the blame, I can live with fact he takes all the blame, as it only fair because of what he done to the MFC.

2. No he should go now. On his current performance the MFC will be losing by an average of 100 points next season.Just learn by the mistake and move on quickly before its too late.

3. Really? I must have been dreaming the 2013 AFL season so far as I thought the MFC was worst then Bad. That great news, so when I wake up the MFC is in the top eight, right?

4. Agree with the start of your statement, but YOU ARE HAPPY the MFC is BAD! My first thought about that statement was maybe the MFC is not for you, have you ever thought about becoming a Collingwood supporter? With statements like this I am sure they will welcome you with open arms. Things will improve that I do agree with you there but only with all the deadwood gone. This includes the Head Coach. As he has lost the support of most of the MFC supporter base so even if he is the world best coach and trust me he not, he must be replace sooner rather then later for Club unity and financial substanability reasons alone.

[Hannibal 5,814]

The list management under Neeld has been rather good though. We've seen clear signs of development in the young players he's brought in, as well as some of the senior players still at the club (sadly not all). He's been very responsible with his list management. He gave the list he inherited a year to show him that they deserved to be kept on and then got rid of the ones who couldn't do so. He's brought in mentors for our current crop of young players, and the results are pretty clear to see. He's overseen the trade/draft period that netted us Hogan, Toumpas, Viney, Dawes, Barry, Kent, Jones and Terlich, as well as spearheading the push to land Clark. I call the last two years the best trade/draft years we've had in a decade or more.

The longer this year goes on, the more we are seeing just how badly run our club has been. There are deep issues that have been festering and poisoning every level of the club and it is going to take time and effort to get them sorted out. The poor playing list and terrible on-field performances are merely one aspect of this. In some ways I'm actually happy we are going so badly as if we were playing well the spotlight wouldn't be shining so much on our club and these issues might have continued to lurk under the surface, obscured by the illusion of success. As things stand, we appear to have hit bottom, and in doing so have draw attention to the deeper flaws in our club. The AFL is getting involved, we are seeing people from outside the "boy's club" being placed into positions of authority with a license to take real action and we are starting to see some results. Things are going to improve from here regardless of who is coaching.

I disagree.

He walked through the door with a heavy hand, lost the senior players, some of whom have since left, he rid the club of talent that was deemed worthy enough to be recruited by other clubs, and brought in duds. I agreed with many of the delistings at the time, but have since wondered whether some of them weren't hindered by his approach. He couldn't improve ANY of them. At times Morton, Petterd, Gysberts and even Bennell have shown AFL talent. All of them were worse under Neeld. No-one can convince me this guy improves anyone. And we all know many players didn't "buy in", because players kept telling us so.

Getting Viney was a no brainer, as was Hogan. FFS, I even had getting Hogan as a priority in my sig for about 3 months before the draft. Every club would have chosen Toumpas at pick 4. Why do you give such credit to Nerd when even amateur onlookers would have done the same ? Jones and Terlich were Todd Viney's selections. Dawes is a win for Neeld, even with the hefty price we paid. Byrnes, Pedersen and Rodan were poor decisions.

With the help of Schwab and Connolly, as well as a Board that fell asleep at the wheel, Nerd has contributed to the ruination of the club.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[DemonOX 8,541]

One down and you all know who will be next!

Who?

Did I miss something!!!!

[robbiefrom13 877]

No-one defended Jurrah's actions.

Jurrah has been spoken about surely enough - but I have to say, of course I don't defend his actions in hitting women, but I do defend the man. Jurrah's crimes were not the man's only actions.

He got into a very bad place, and did indefensible actions. How he got into that bad place is grounds for defending the man (though not his actions once he got there), plus there was unquestionably another side to him as well; and despite all his faults, I would and do defend him.

He was a dignified man when he came to MFC, and the enormity of his adjustment issues plus his efforts on the field were such that he deserved every bit of our admiration. He was an imaginative and supremely skilled athlete, and no amount of crime takes that away from him. I admire him for all that was good in him, and I have no doubt it was an integral part of who he was/is. There is no reason to assume that the Liam Jurrah we knew no longer exists, albeit buried in a fog of confusion and anger and who-knows-what - but if the clear-minded athlete could ever be reclaimed I for one would see it as a triumph, and I would love to see it. Sad is the right word, but I choose to believe and hope. Melbourne supporter, right?

(except that I don't hold back judgment against Mark Neeld... Am I contradicting myself? Mark, just show us something...we need that alternative story!)

Edited June 15, 2013 by robbiefrom13

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I think this piece from "opposition analyst" just about sums it up (although I suspect Neeld had a role in adopting the plan used successfully by Malthouse to win a flag in 2010):Flattery or imitation: Demons fail to copy Malthouse plan

The problem is that on Monday, Melbourne didn't have the personnel available to enable it to work for the full four quarters and particularly so after Chris Dawes had to be subbed off at half time. I think Neeld knew this and, as a consequence, there was a fair bit of work done to avoid the necessity of subbing him off earlier (which was probably to the team's detriment in the end).

Though we certainly don't have the cattle, I think this highlights Neeld's greatest problem - his inflexibility in being able to make the necessary moves once the wheels start falling off (and confidence levels drop) in order to change the flow of the game. We've seen it enough times this year and last. On Monday, Collingwood scored 10.6 to 0.4 in a patch from quarter time until halfway through the third quarter.

While Neeld has done well in attempting to do what he says was his mission - to "change the culture of the club" and this aim should continue into the future irrespective of who is the coach, he has failed to fulfill what I see as a fundamental in coaching on match days with flexible tactics and strategies that can work to change the course of games.

If he hasn't shown this ability in 1½ years as coach, I can't see things changing in the next 12 weeks and, as a consequence, he's on his way out. He'll be very lucky to see out the season unless he's able to find ways for the team to consistently play as it did in the first quarter on Monday.

He's been dealt a shocking hand as a coach with everything that's happened at the club both before and since he took over but the reality is that he is at the least no better at the coaching caper than his predecessor even with all of the extra assistance at his disposal.

Great post W_J (as usual).

Neeld strikes me as a really effective assistant coach - hence, the very positive endorsement the club apparently received from Malthouse.

His systems and processes, I expect, are very diligently and well constructed - but he seems too inflexible to operate in a changing environment (eg, match day when key players go down) and otherwise deal with the subtleties of player relationships and people/media management.

Just my perception though. I would really like to know what the core, required players on the list actually think of him - and not have to base such views on unreliable reports from the likes of Damien Barrett and Caroline Wilson.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I disagree.

He walked through the door with a heavy hand, lost the senior players, some of whom have since left, he rid the club of talent that was deemed worthy enough to be recruited by other clubs, and brought in duds. I agreed with many of the delistings at the time, but have since wondered whether some of them weren't hindered by his approach. He couldn't improve ANY of them. At times Morton, Petterd, Gysberts and even Bennell have shown AFL talent. All of them were worse under Neeld. No-one can convince me this guy improves anyone. And we all know many players didn't "buy in", because players kept telling us so.

Getting Viney was a no brainer, as was Hogan. FFS, I even had getting Hogan as a priority in my sig for about 3 months before the draft. Every club would have chosen Toumpas at pick 4. Why do you give such credit to Nerd when even amateur onlookers would have done the same ? Jones and Terlich were Todd Viney's selections. Dawes is a win for Neeld, even with the hefty price we paid. Byrnes, Pedersen and Rodan were poor decisions.

With the help of Schwab and Connolly, as well as a Board that fell asleep at the wheel, Nerd has contributed to the ruination of the club.

That said, BH - Neeld may well have picked the so-called 'obvious' high end picks, but that's something this club has failed to do on too many occasions previously.

I also think the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich were not obvious picks - and they've been absolutely inspired bottom end picks.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I also think the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich were not obvious picks - and they've been absolutely inspired bottom end picks.

They're Viney's, not Nerd's.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

I disagree.

He walked through the door with a heavy hand, lost the senior players, some of whom have since left, he rid the club of talent that was deemed worthy enough to be recruited by other clubs, and brought in duds. I agreed with many of the delistings at the time, but have since wondered whether some of them weren't hindered by his approach. He couldn't improve ANY of them. At times Morton, Petterd, Gysberts and even Bennell have shown AFL talent. All of them were worse under Neeld. No-one can convince me this guy improves anyone. And we all know many players didn't "buy in", because players kept telling us so.

Getting Viney was a no brainer, as was Hogan. FFS, I even had getting Hogan as a priority in my sig for about 3 months before the draft. Every club would have chosen Toumpas at pick 4. Why do you give such credit to Nerd when even amateur onlookers would have done the same ? Jones and Terlich were Todd Viney's selections. Dawes is a win for Neeld, even with the hefty price we paid. Byrnes, Pedersen and Rodan were poor decisions.

With the help of Schwab and Connolly, as well as a Board that fell asleep at the wheel, Nerd has contributed to the ruination of the club.

So you're saying that the FD under Neld got their picks right, and that counts against him too? That we got the best possible player at 4, we got the 17 year-old we needed, kept our option on Viney and that there is nobody in the football world who can fault us for any of those moves except for the odd Melbourne fan? Great case for the failure of our FD.

As for the line about selections being Viney's work rather than Neeld's, do you really believe that Viney was working an an vacuum and there was no discussion or input from the coach and others in the FD? Of course not, you're simply being disingenuous because you refuse to give credit where it is due.

[Hannibal 5,814]

So you're saying that the FD under Neld got their picks right, and that counts against him too? That we got the best possible player at 4, we got the 17 year-old we needed, kept our option on Viney and that there is nobody in the football world who can fault us for any of those moves except for the odd Melbourne fan? Great case for the failure of our FD.

As for the line about selections being Viney's work rather than Neeld's, do you really believe that Viney was working an an vacuum and there was no discussion or input from the coach and others in the FD? Of course not, you're simply being disingenuous because you refuse to give credit where it is due.

The parts the club got right were "no brainers".

As for Terlich, etc., the senior coach is always briefed, but in any good club the decision is the head recruiters and his staff. With that in mind, we wouldn't know who had the final say.

[demon3165 1,988]

I disagree.

He walked through the door with a heavy hand, lost the senior players, some of whom have since left, he rid the club of talent that was deemed worthy enough to be recruited by other clubs, and brought in duds. I agreed with many of the delistings at the time, but have since wondered whether some of them weren't hindered by his approach. He couldn't improve ANY of them. At times Morton, Petterd, Gysberts and even Bennell have shown AFL talent. All of them were worse under Neeld. No-one can convince me this guy improves anyone. And we all know many players didn't "buy in", because players kept telling us so.

Getting Viney was a no brainer, as was Hogan. FFS, I even had getting Hogan as a priority in my sig for about 3 months before the draft. Every club would have chosen Toumpas at pick 4. Why do you give such credit to Nerd when even amateur onlookers would have done the same ? Jones and Terlich were Todd Viney's selections. Dawes is a win for Neeld, even with the hefty price we paid. Byrnes, Pedersen and Rodan were poor decisions.

With the help of Schwab and Connolly, as well as a Board that fell asleep at the wheel, Nerd has contributed to the ruination of the club.

Yeah Cook has stared for ?????? Gysberts how many games? Bate which team is he playing for? oh yeah Morton he's playing well starring for ??? Pettard picked up as a rookie, Rivers yes a loss Moloney still a fnger pointer and sook, Matin he's burning up the turf at Brissie, Bennell and Lawrence, their both flying where? oh and I forgot Sheahan and Williams I forget where they are playing.......gee this in your words TALENT was let go and this hurting the club glad your not running the football department.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

The parts the club got right were "no brainers".

As for Terlich, etc., the senior coach is always briefed, but in any good club the decision is the head recruiters and his staff. With that in mind, we wouldn't know who had the final say.

I've spent the last few minutes trying to find the article and failing, but back in 2011 there was a very interesting piece written about the list management meeting being held before the draft. We got a play-by-play look at how things went, and it was pretty damn clear who had the final say on whether we picked someone up or not. If someone can track down the article in question I would appreciate it since I can't seem to find it and don't really have time to spend hunting right now.

[jumbo returns 6,504]

I disagree.

He walked through the door with a heavy hand, lost the senior players, some of whom have since left, he rid the club of talent that was deemed worthy enough to be recruited by other clubs, and brought in duds. I agreed with many of the delistings at the time, but have since wondered whether some of them weren't hindered by his approach. He couldn't improve ANY of them. At times Morton, Petterd, Gysberts and even Bennell have shown AFL talent. All of them were worse under Neeld. No-one can convince me this guy improves anyone. And we all know many players didn't "buy in", because players kept telling us so.

Getting Viney was a no brainer, as was Hogan. FFS, I even had getting Hogan as a priority in my sig for about 3 months before the draft. Every club would have chosen Toumpas at pick 4. Why do you give such credit to Nerd when even amateur onlookers would have done the same ? Jones and Terlich were Todd Viney's selections. Dawes is a win for Neeld, even with the hefty price we paid. Byrnes, Pedersen and Rodan were poor decisions.

With the help of Schwab and Connolly, as well as a Board that fell asleep at the wheel, Nerd has contributed to the ruination of the club.

Inaccurate, narcissistic drivel.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yeah Cook has stared for ?????? Gysberts how many games? Bate which team is he playing for? oh yeah Morton he's playing well starring for ??? Pettard picked up as a rookie, Rivers yes a loss Moloney still a fnger pointer and sook, Matin he's burning up the turf at Brissie, Bennell and Lawrence, their both flying where? oh and I forgot Sheahan and Williams I forget where they are playing.......gee this in your words TALENT was let go and this hurting the club glad your not running the football department.

Cook ?? A joke of a selection. Why bring him up ? Prendergast should be hunted down for that selection.

Martin ? Where did I mention him ?

Moloney ? A senior player with faults, but rather improve the reigning B&F he was played at Casey 4 weeks in a row after Nerd walked in the door and said, "I don't want you to like me".

Rivers ? Hated Nerd.

Petterd, Gysberts, Morton ? No world beaters, AND AS I SAID, I was for moving them on at the time. But guess what, they'd all shown AFL talent and ALL regressed under Nerd.

Why anyone would support one of the worst coaching records in history JUST BECAUSE he's the incumbent is beyond me. No effort levels and a percentage worse than a second year club full of kids in GWS.

2,000 years ago Nerd would have been stoned to death. 1,000 years ago burned at the cross. 500 years ago hanged drawn and quartered. Today some want him to coach in 2014.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[bing181 8,176]

Moloney ? A senior player with faults, but rather improve the reigning B&F he was played at Casey 4 weeks in a row after Nerd walked in the door and said, "I don't want you to like me".

Moloney, NEVER played 4 weeks in a row at Casey. He played one game at Casey in July, then another 3 games at the end of the season in August, which was almost a year after Neeld "walked through the door".

This is about as accurate as your "Neeld never met Moloney one-on-one" claim.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Moloney, NEVER played 4 weeks in a row at Casey. He played one game at Casey in July, then another 3 games at the end of the season in August, which was almost a year after Neeld "walked through the door".

This is about as accurate as your "Neeld never met Moloney one-on-one" claim.

Oh, so it was 3 games in a row ? That changes everything.

Btw, it's not MY claim that Nerd never met Moloney one-on-one. It's Moloney's claim to Brereton on a radio interview. But what would Moloney know ?

You guys deserve Nerd.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[The Big Ticket 94]

Inaccurate, narcissistic drivel.

Inaccurate?

Right on the money actually.

[jumbo returns 6,504]

Inaccurate?

Right on the money actually.

Nope.

[P-man 13,224]

Gysberts, Petterd and Morton can hardly get a a look in at their respective clubs, or none at all, so I think it's a bit much to be overly critical for moving them on. Gys has been mostly underwhelming for Werribee (unless they are beating up on a half strength Queanbeyan in the Foxtel Cup), whilst the Tiges seem to have their best 22 sorted, and Petterd is comfortably outside of it.

Moloney and Rivers have proven to be major losses, and both have publicly criticised Neeld since leaving. He simply needed to appreciate their importance to a team with so few senior quality players, and do what was required to keep them on board, certainly for this season. He failed to do so, and it will be a significant factor that costs him his job.

[Bring Back Barassi 532]

Yeah Cook has stared for ?????? Gysberts how many games? Bate which team is he playing for? oh yeah Morton he's playing well starring for ??? Pettard picked up as a rookie, Rivers yes a loss Moloney still a fnger pointer and sook, Matin he's burning up the turf at Brissie, Bennell and Lawrence, their both flying where? oh and I forgot Sheahan and Williams I forget where they are playing.......gee this in your words TALENT was let go and this hurting the club glad your not running the football department.

If only he got rid off Dunne as well

[demon3165 1,988]

Cook ?? A joke of a selection. Why bring him up ? Prendergast should be hunted down for that selection.

Martin ? Where did I mention him ?

Moloney ? A senior player with faults, but rather improve the reigning B&F he was played at Casey 4 weeks in a row after Nerd walked in the door and said, "I don't want you to like me".

Rivers ? Hated Nerd.

Petterd, Gysberts, Morton ? No world beaters, AND AS I SAID, I was for moving them on at the time. But guess what, they'd all shown AFL talent and ALL regressed under Nerd.

Why anyone would support one of the worst coaching records in history JUST BECAUSE he's the incumbent is beyond me. No effort levels and a percentage worse than a second year club full of kids in GWS.

2,000 years ago Nerd would have been stoned to death. 1,000 years ago burned at the cross. 500 years ago hanged drawn and quartered. Today some want him to coach in 2014.

How about you read your own post about blaming MN then you say oh gee we should move on some of the players, you have no credibility on this subject so ok where is Morton playing if you can answer that question, Gysberts and what about the rest you failed to answer, cannot wait for this response.