Neeld is not the problem

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Easy done Iva - and you will enjoy the respite from trolldom. Go to your name at top right. Click and the button for manage settings then navigate to set ignore settings.

Thanks Binman. Now that is "constructive"

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

In my advanced years, I am not technically savvy. So can someone tell me how I can "ignore" a dolt and a troll on here. Is it in my settings?

Didn't think you had the bottle to answer, pathetic run and hide, players have the mindset, so do the "supporters",probably the same advancing years as you old chap, but have the savvy to recognise someone who's only answer to everything is whinge and whine

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

Thanks Binman. Now that is "constructive"

As long as you are sitting behind your keyboard my hero, smirking, you are ok, as I have said before this board is not for discussion or debate.

The rule " I am gonna post something and not back it up, if somebody disagrees they are a troll"

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Didn't think you had the bottle to answer, pathetic run and hide, players have the mindset, so do the "supporters",probably the same advancing years as you old chap, but have the savvy to recognise someone who's only answer to everything is whinge and whine

What are you saying here??

[P-man 13,366]

Can I ask again that people please stop quoting Satyr. It defeats the purpose of putting him on ignore. Cheers.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

GNF - you'd find this hard to believe but I don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say - but some statement I think are just silly as it is not as simple as 1 problem that is wrong with MFC

Like the above one - A game plan as a style of play a team wishes to execute (in basic broad terms). When 18 pr22 players getting beaten in every 1 v 1 contest or if the team only truns up for 1 qtr please elobarate to me what you think the coaching staff can do to implement their game plan when every (bar probably a handfull) player on the ground is getting beaten in their positions

We had no winners on any line of the ground (none in defese, mids or forwards could put their hands up and say we won our position)

I think it is pretty shallow thinking if you believe the team is executing to Neelds game plan. I don't think they are executing a game plan at all.

I'm pretty sure Neeld and others said at the start of the game in the Fox lead up you can't just bomb - All i saw all game was players boming the ball to position - are the players taking the [censored] or do they not listen to instructions??? WTF

We played ok in the 3rd when Freo dropped their pressure - I can only assume there is too much work left to do by too few players

I think Neeld needs to be blamed for the state of the team but at least acknowledge that the MFC played 1 qtr of comepetitive footy and it took them until the 3rd qtr to do it and that is what angers met he most

Analyise the 3rd qtr game style to get an idea of the game plan - the rest is unacceptable rubbish

I don't believe the game plan matches the strength and weaknesses of our list. As just one example: I think we all agree that our biggest deficiency is our midfield, and thus clearance work. Certainly we have a lot of trouble getting our hands on the ball. The game plan we are currently playing, call it "Collingwood 2010" is well known and superseded. It relies on a dominant midfield as the ball is kicked out of defence, down the line, towards what should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 situation in Melbourne's favour. However, we are not achieving the advantage as the opposition know exactly where we are going to kick it. The game plan theory is that if things don't turn out to plan, you get a contested situation and at least the ball should be able to be taken over the boundary between half back and the wing. If we had a dominant midfield and were winning the clearances this would be a good thing, however with a very weak midfield this is a loss as the chances of winning the clearance are heavily backed with the opposition.

We should not be using this game plan. Not only is it old, and out-dated, to such an extent all teams know how to play against it and defeat it, it DOES NOT MATCH THE STREAGHTH AND WEAKNESSESS OF OUR LIST. To the contrary it further exposes our weak midfield. No wonder we are being smashed, no wonder we have no confidence.

I could go on and on and talk about other examples that our game plan does not match our teams strengths.

What I will say is that a good coach does not simply copy an old Premiership Game Plan which everyone has studies and understands. They create their own game plan that matches the strengths and weakness of their players and gets the opposition guessing. Unfortunately our last 2 coaches have only be interested in implementing something old rather than tailor make their own.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[Pipefitter 2,159]

Agree GNF. That plan is all about footskills and also trusting your team mate to make the pass as we are already running forward. This is why the turnovers absolutely murder us.

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

Can I ask again that people please stop quoting Satyr. It defeats the purpose of putting him on ignore. Cheers.

I actually thought you had turned a corner, I was wrong

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

What are you saying here??

I thought you would recognise what I am saying, there is a group of posters on here, yourself included, who couldn't have an open discussion or debate if your lives depended on it, you do nothing but whinge and whine and the answer to every question is "sack everbody", you all claim you support the club, but do nothing but bag everybody associated with the Club

Yes we are going through a rough trot, yes everybody is hurting, do you really think you are on your own, but the negative destructive rubbish that is posted achieves what?

I don't agree with a hell of a lot of what Grand New Flag posts but he least he sits down and has a think about it, and offers some debate, not whinging and whining....and sack everybody

Some of the other members of your minority keep posting that I am on ignore, why do they do it, to try and belittle coz they don't have the bottle or wherewithall to engage in proper debate,......do they think I really care whether they read or not.....er no

[jazza 1,323]

Agree GNF. That plan is all about footskills and also trusting your team mate to make the pass as we are already running forward. This is why the turnovers absolutely murder us.

mmmm interesting ,your right the turnovers are killing us<no doubt a summer program to improve>

trusting your team mate, now theres a problem, jamar and frawley have become completely untrustworthy, does the coach play them in the ressies or hope they come good and help the younger team?

if thier dropped ,do the demonlanders then cry foul over lack of senoir players in team, or do they cry foul because frawley jamar dont want to play for NEELD and hes made another mistake in dropping them?

bit of a worry

[picket fence 17,151]

His spin and rationale is becoming stuff of legend.
Today in the Hun

"We couldn't cope" (and haven't all year)

"Freo pressure too much" ( Well having a negative mind set and playing jog along footy will do that)

"I don't think the effort was too bad"
(I don't think that at all)

"When you put three guys behind the ball, the numbers get skewed a bit!" (well then play Man on Man and run harder when its our turn to Spread and whilst not attractive, will lessen the damage)

But at last one takes the cake!

" We came up against a very well oiled, well drilled side and we were overwhelmed with their pressure in the first half ( Too too true Mark and I ask..is our training form still the benchmark of your appriasal as to the way we play and therefore the stuff of "Training the House down" becoming our benchmark) ??

Please just don't say anything other than.

"We were badly beaten on the day"

Just tends to remove a modicum of pressure, but only just!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I don't believe the game plan matches the strength and weaknesses of our list. As just one example: I think we all agree that our biggest deficiency is our midfield, and thus clearance work. Certainly we have a lot of trouble getting our hands on the ball. The game plan we are currently playing, call it "Collingwood 2010" is well known and superseded. It relies on a dominant midfield as the ball is kicked out of defence, down the line, towards what should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 situation in Melbourne's favour. However, we are not achieving the advantage as the opposition know exactly where we are going to kick it. The game plan theory is that if things don't turn out to plan, you get a contested situation and at least the ball should be able to be taken over the boundary between half back and the wing. If we had a dominant midfield and were winning the clearances this would be a good thing, however with a very weak midfield this is a loss as the chances of winning the clearance are heavily backed with the opposition.

We should not be using this game plan. Not only is it old, and out-dated, to such an extent all teams know how to play against it and defeat it, it DOES NOT MATCH THE STREAGHTH AND WEAKNESSESS OF OUR LIST. To the contrary it further exposes our weak midfield. No wonder we are being smashed, no wonder we have no confidence.

I could go on and on and talk about other examples that our game plan does not match our teams strengths.

What I will say is that a good coach does not simply copy an old Premiership Game Plan which everyone has studies and understands. They create their own game plan that matches the strengths and weakness of their players and gets the opposition guessing. Unfortunately our last 2 coaches have only be interested in implementing something old rather than tailor make their own.

I agree GNF with your comments - but what are our strengths??

I personally don't see to many if any strengths on field - we can't win contested footy consistently, we don't pressure for 4 qtrs - our ball use, decision making and execution are shocking there is not much room for any strengths.

On those facts as I see them all we can play is a high pressure game style and try create turn overs as our ball use will not allow us to play like a Geel, Syd etc

The reason I disagree with you is beacuse I don't believe and Sunday again proved it for me again that a different direction will not automatically work - A new coahc won't bring us instat results.

I don't care if it is Neeld or whoever who is coaching this club but a lot of hard work and development needs to be done as our Senior leaders don't have the leadership or willingness to will this side to a vicotory at the moment.

Just to clairfy - Although Neeld has dug his own hole to an extent he really has a list in it's infancy of development - there are not many moves he can make in 2013 or anyone else to fix this now

And I think your last point is way off the mark and pretty silly if you really believe it to be true - to keep it simple I think he uses some tactics from the pies but his game plan wouldn't be anywhere near identical.

It can be argued that Neeld does not utilise our players strengths and has forced them to play a style that a lot can't handle, but I reckon I can safely assume our players strengths aren't that good either

Edited May 27, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[P-man 13,366]

I've stopped listening to what he has to say. This is the first week this year where I haven't watched the post-match. I don't like admitting that, but my faith in him is now at zero.

[frankie_d 1,471]

Jazza, you are wasting your time, posters on here don't really care about the Club, they only care that they support a winning team, when it is not winning they turn on it

Agree I thought Jamar's game was the worst I have ever seen him play, the fact that he is fitter than he has ever been shows that it is all mental

get stuffed... you have no idea what the posters on here have done for the Club in good times and in bad.

stop being so "holier that thou"

Edited May 27, 2013 by frankie_d

[P-man 13,366]

FFS.

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

get stuffed... you have no idea what the posters on here have done for the Club in good times and in bad.

stop being so "holier that thou"

That's very succinct, .......thought the same may apply to me.......I am not holier than thou..just don't like heroes who hide behind their keyboards bagging everything and everybody.........just looking for a bit of debate and discussion, have to look long and hard on here......sorting through the whinge/whine/sack/troll posts

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

I've stopped listening to what he has to say. This is the first week this year where I haven't watched the post-match. I don't like admitting that, but my faith in him is now at zero.

God, he'll be shattered

[Satyriconhome 10,873]

I agree GNF with your comments - but what are our strengths??

I personally don't see to many if any strengths on field - we can't win contested footy consistently, we don't pressure for 4 qtrs - our ball use, decision making and execution are shocking there is not much room for any strengths.

On those facts as I see them all we can play is a high pressure game style and try create turn overs as our ball use will not allow us to play like a Geel, Syd etc

The reason I disagree with you is beacuse I don't believe and Sunday again proved it for me again that a different direction will not automatically work - A new coahc won't bring us instat results.

I don't care if it is Neeld or whoever who is coaching this club but a lot of hard work and development needs to be done as our Senior leaders don't have the leadership or willingness to will this side to a vicotory at the moment.

Just to clairfy - Although Neeld has dug his own hole to an extent he really has a list in it's infancy of development - there are not many moves he can make in 2013 or anyone else to fix this now

And I think your last point is way off the mark and pretty silly if you really believe it to be true - to keep it simple I think he uses some tactics from the pies but his game plan wouldn't be anywhere near identical.

It can be argued that Neeld does not utilise our players strengths and has forced them to play a style that a lot can't handle, but I reckon I can safely assume our players strengths aren't that good either

I would agree with most of that, the main point being I am of the same opinion, no matter the coach I think the problems are too many at the moment for a quick fix

[dee-luded 2,959]

WHO THE HELL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GAMEPLAN THEN?

Get real.

Neeld IS the problem.

... the gameplan isn't being implemented. they're trying but one or two aren't putting in the effort when we don't have the ball. watts was good early. I haven't seen all the game. just studying that first qtr when the white flag was raised.

take a look at the game yesterday minute by minute thru the first 10 minutes or more, with the sound OFF. don't watch the ball carrier. watch what Our players are doing without the ball.

In the first few minutes after a very sound start DPearce went thru the centre bounce taking the ball, Davey just stood behind & made No attempt to get after him, no effort. this is what makes others drop their heads. no one was on his tail easy goal.

then again after Terlich ran & kicked the ball from 40 mtrs out, along the corridor to Davey out near centre wing. Davey was under pressure & he didn't go at the ball & jump for the mark. another quick freo kick forward & another easy goal.

a poor effort to take an easy mark by Dunn with no one around him, dropped the ball & under pressure ran toward the corridor instinctively instead of toward the boundary. It would have n=been better to get caught holding the ball instead of poor execution of skills putting others under the pump.

...all our so called leaders. older players.. questionable players.

.... this set the tone for the game.

this is not Neelds making, this is the old culture Neeld is removing.... this is the old culture thats seen our good sides be teasers to us. S.O.F.T....culture. without this Exorcism, the Dees will never play like Warriors. & this Is the reason our kids haven't developed for decades... why Mclean & Sylvia didn't, & why our better players of the past 10 + Years haven't gotten past 3rd Gear in the potential.

Neeld is on the right track, but after the past 10 yrs of this clubs efforts, it is hard to have faith in someone pulling down what we're clinging to.

.

Edited May 27, 2013 by dee-luded

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Seems to me, the main point is being missed in this debate. It is not just the losses, but the magnitude of those losses. Average of 74 points in 9 rounds. You cannot compare the magnitude of our losses to anyone else in recent history. Whether the list is up to it or not, I do not really care - I still believe we do not really know that, at this stage- for consistent lack of efforts, a clear demeanour on the ground that demonstrates more than just a suggestion that they are not committed, on top of the fact that even players that have demonstrated they have talent are going half paced, points to something disastrously wrong.

We can blame history, we can accuse those who are no longer within the club of getting it wrong and we can make excuses because of that. But you simply cannot ignore the immense debacle that we currently are as a footy club. To do nothing would be almost criminal under these circumstances.

And please note, I have never said nor do I now say, that we should sack everybody, but in any other field of endeavour, what is occurring at this proud footy club, is just not acceptable, therefore change needs to occur immediately, which is commensurate with the size of the problem.

For those who subscribe to the philosophy that we need to be patient and allow the current game plan - whatever that is - to be fully understood and implemented by adding to the list of current players, draft picks and smart trades, you are not accepting the reality that we have tried that strategy in the past and we have clearly failed. The MFC has run out of time and the AFL has told us so. Change will occur, whether we like it or not. It is just my opinion, that change must occur now.

Edited May 27, 2013 by iv'a worn smith

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

Look at Freo, they get a competent coach and the players respond last year and run and spread, attack and defend.

We do none of the above, the players don't run from their opponents as they know the ball will sail back over their heads to their opponents, the mids are always outnumbered and get beaten at the contest constantly, or they get the ball and get smashed. The forwards either don't get the ball down there or if they do they get it kicked on their heads.

All these things should be either coached into them or out of them.

After 18 months a lot of the players who have been there for all of Neelds tenure still make the same mistakes. He can't get his message across, wether this is the players fault really is irrelevant because its his job to get them to play good footy, he has failed so far and does not show any sign of doing any better anytime soon.

Would another coach do better? If it was a respected coach, ie Roos etc I reckon they would get a better output.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

I agree GNF with your comments - but what are our strengths??

I personally don't see to many if any strengths on field - we can't win contested footy consistently, we don't pressure for 4 qtrs - our ball use, decision making and execution are shocking there is not much room for any strengths.

On those facts as I see them all we can play is a high pressure game style and try create turn overs as our ball use will not allow us to play like a Geel, Syd etc

The reason I disagree with you is beacuse I don't believe and Sunday again proved it for me again that a different direction will not automatically work - A new coahc won't bring us instat results.

I don't care if it is Neeld or whoever who is coaching this club but a lot of hard work and development needs to be done as our Senior leaders don't have the leadership or willingness to will this side to a vicotory at the moment.

Just to clairfy - Although Neeld has dug his own hole to an extent he really has a list in it's infancy of development - there are not many moves he can make in 2013 or anyone else to fix this now

And I think your last point is way off the mark and pretty silly if you really believe it to be true - to keep it simple I think he uses some tactics from the pies but his game plan wouldn't be anywhere near identical.

It can be argued that Neeld does not utilise our players strengths and has forced them to play a style that a lot can't handle, but I reckon I can safely assume our players strengths aren't that good either

It is easy to look at our performance and then say we have no strengths, however this is not the case.

For example we have a relatively strong backline and forwardline.

To help take advantage of our strong forwards of Clark, Dawes, Howe even Watts and coming next season Hogan we need fast ball movement. We need to get the ball into our forward line before the opposition has had the opportunity to flood back. You don't get this by going around the boundary, kicking down the line. You get this by players being encouraged to take on the game, make the play from half back, play aggressively out of defence and move the ball quickly into the forward 50. Our talented forwards are simply wasted with slow predictable ball movement, out strength is not being taken advantage of.

Similarly we have a relatively strong backline, but again out game plan fails to exploit our strength. Instead of our defenders playing man on man which you would be confident of holding their own, they play some sort of zone defence. The zone is so poor, the mid-field turnovers so great, that the zone has no hope of being implemented in time meaning opposition players just run into and through our defence like it is match practice with scarecrows as defenders. With so many mid-field turn overs surely we are better off going man on man with an extra player back. I am sick of the ease in which opposition breakthrough our defence.

[Cards13 9,117]

Seems to me, the main point is being missed in this debate. It is not just the losses, but the magnitude of those losses. Average of 74 points in 9 rounds. You cannot compare the magnitude of our losses to anyone else in recent history. Whether the list is up to it or not, I do not really care - I still believe we do not really know that, at this stage- for consistent lack of efforts, a clear demeanour on the ground that demonstrates more than just a suggestion that they are not committed, on top of the fact that even players that have demonstrated they have talent are going half paced, points to something disastrously wrong.

We can blame history, we can accuse those who are no longer within the club of getting it wrong and we can make excuses because of that. But you simply cannot ignore the immense debacle that we currently are as a footy club. To do nothing would be almost criminal under these circumstances.

And please note, I have never said nor do I now say, that we should sack everybody, but in any other field of endeavour, what is occurring at this proud footy club, is just not acceptable, therefore change needs to occur immediately, which is commensurate with the size of the problem.

For those who subscribe to the philosophy that we need to be patient and allow the current game plan - whatever that is - to be fully understood and implemented by adding to the list of current players, draft picks and smart trades, you are not accepting the reality that we have tried that strategy in the past and we have clearly failed. The MFC has run out of time and the AFL has told us so. Change will occur, whether we like it or not. It is just my opinion, that change must occur now.

Keenly following your posts now Iv'a..... for content and trying to read between the lines. Going to be interesting to see what the week holds.

It is a worry the AFL has told us we have "run out of time", what does that mean? We must improve on field/off field now or what?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Keenly following your posts now Iv'a..... for content and trying to read between the lines. Going to be interesting to see what the week holds.

It is a worry the AFL has told us we have "run out of time", what does that mean? We must improve on field/off field now or what?

Short answer is both Cards. But whatever happens the general perception of us as a footy club has to change in the market place. Understandably, the AFL will not tolerate its brand being trashed in the heartland for much longer. Nor should it, i believe.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

It is easy to look at our performance and then say we have no strengths, however this is not the case.

For example we have a relatively strong backline and forwardline.

To help take advantage of our strong forwards of Clark, Dawes, Howe even Watts and coming next season Hogan we need fast ball movement. We need to get the ball into our forward line before the opposition has had the opportunity to flood back. You don't get this by going around the boundary, kicking down the line. You get this by players being encouraged to take on the game, make the play from half back, play aggressively out of defence and move the ball quickly into the forward 50. Our talented forwards are simply wasted with slow predictable ball movement, out strength is not being taken advantage of.

Similarly we have a relatively strong backline, but again out game plan fails to exploit our strength. Instead of our defenders playing man on man which you would be confident of holding their own, they play some sort of zone defence. The zone is so poor, the mid-field turnovers so great, that the zone has no hope of being implemented in time meaning opposition players just run into and through our defence like it is match practice with scarecrows as defenders. With so many mid-field turn overs surely we are better off going man on man with an extra player back. I am sick of the ease in which opposition breakthrough our defence.

I disagree with this

On face value both those lines look pretty strong - but if they're not making an impact on the game how can the be considered stong?

Eg: our backline can not maintain posession of the ball and continually cough up easy scores. Now I am not going to argue that the midfield dosen't play a part in this as the amount of times the ball goes inside our defensive 50 is a concern - but I say look at them under pressure and their ability to maintain handle the pressure and maintain possession

All factors are very poor

Yes I acknowledge and agree the midfield is a concern and fixing that should be a first priority that we need to fix. But can you say that ourdefence can effictively counter attack?And I am not talking about just the rushed clearances but I think our backline is as poor as our mids as with lack of compusre and lack of ability to execute and maintain pressure.

I agree with your opinion on our forwars - they are wasting away but they also need to find a way to et in to the game - Should I even comment on the bolded line? None of our defenders show the quality of a Geel or Syd to play that counter attacking game style (for a start you need full ground pressure and run - and we lack both) - how many examples form Sundays game would you like? I'll repeat myself the mids do hurt us for turnovers but the backs are equally as poor with the ball in hand

Not sure if you noticed this but against Freo we played man on man for the majority of the game (except for one or two patches where we actually flodded). You do realise to stem the flow of opposition scoring teams will play 1 man loose in defence but if there is no pressure from up the groun this will be equally ineffective and why I highly doubt we can play like a Geel or Syd

Our game plan reliies on pressure around the ground - I don't blame our defenders for that - I simply want to point out that with the ball our denders are as equally as poor as our mids

And gameplan has nothing to do with losing 1 v 1 contest - that is player driven. Plans dictate support and strategy, players dictate effort and ability

Edited May 27, 2013 by Unleash Hell