Midfield Statistics - How Important?

[DeeSpencer 23,256]

Here's the problem. We move the ball incredibly quickly in terms of playing on and bad rapid fire handballs but at the same time our players move incredibly slowly. We need to move faster to get in position then moving the ball quickly will allow us to retain position. Defensively it's the same. Just giving the ball up and not moving quickly enough to get it back.

But a perfect team will win clearances particularly centre clearances. Contested possession is just like tackles they are relevant to the amound of total possession you have.

I bet come finals the teams that win contested possession, clearances and tackles will he the winners

[jackaub 1,402]

But if I'm you're diving COACH then I should have taught you how to implement your dive, and if you'd done it unsuccessfully 28 times I probably would have done more to fix it.

your so right Stuie If thar cant do what the coach wants or wont (Run and spread and have confidence to take the game on) how do you fix it?

Do we need a Psycologist I agrre that the coach has that responsibility

I went on Sunday and had the time to just watch with no passion and the indivigual players worked very hard and contested the footy

What they didnt do was :

1) work for each other

2) Work smart

3) choose good options

The last (3) was so eveident The choices made even under no pressure were appaliing and cost us most of the goals that Carlton won by

It appears to me that they are not playing as a team when the game plan requires them to

I wish I knew what was going on down at the club coz it sure is not workingbut It is the coach who is reponsible for this aslect of the team game

Something is very wrong with this team

[jackaub 1,402]

The other thing we didnt do was run straight with the ball

You only need to gain 10 metres over the advantage line and you force the opposition to defend and run backwards

Carlton ran through the ball and were alays in a position to receive a handball over the advantage line

Its basic football our guys are not confident in doing Everytime they do and risk it works they need to do it more

Good skills help You have to hit your team mate in the modern game or u turn it over

[rpfc 27,573]

i dont understand , are you saying the slow style of play isnt instructed or intended?

are the players making that style up themselves and if so the fd has got a lot to answer for

No, I mean that players know what to do but cannot do it because they are bereft of confidence in themselves and each other.

The 'buck' stops at the coach but don't go around thinking like some on here that the inert style of play we devolve into at the first sign of pressure is intended.

It isn't. The players just cannot sustain a level of belief in themselves for long periods to take the game on and risk failure to attempt success. They retreat into their shells and don't run, they worry too much about what 'their' bloke is doing, and not enough about what they and their team-mates are doing.

And when you have enough players only worried about 'their' man, 'their' team is going to lose.

[jazza 1,323]

No, I mean that players know what to do but cannot do it because they are bereft of confidence in themselves and each other.

The 'buck' stops at the coach but don't go around thinking like some on here that the inert style of play we devolve into at the first sign of pressure is intended.

It isn't. The players just cannot sustain a level of belief in themselves for long periods to take the game on and risk failure to attempt success. They retreat into their shells and don't run, they worry too much about what 'their' bloke is doing, and not enough about what they and their team-mates are doing.

And when you have enough players only worried about 'their' man, 'their' team is going to lose.

so we have a fd developing and trying to overcome this problem

they need a midfield to be worked on and topped up, im sure the fd is aware of this and are trying to get by with what they have until next draft

murdering the footy against brizzy in the 3rd was terrible and we all know that , on sunday they tried to hang on to it a bit more to make sure it wasnt given back as easily , the players will learn to cope with these probs , or lose their place in 2014

Edited May 8, 2013 by jazza

[Deecisive 1,658]

I suspect that our players are trying too hard to maintain their press and positions that they become fixated on that role instead of adapting it to the conditions, i.e. leave your man at times to contest or put pressure on someone elses man. Our poor disposal is obviously the biggest issue in my mind. When we have the ball our players start to move into attack then we give a garbage kick or handpass to an opposition player who either kicks a goal or links up with other players free because our players are going the wrong way. Our players also have a play-on at all times mentality even to the point of being suicidal, while some players will hold the ball and ignore short leads from free players and then end up kicking it to a contest. I would love to see a game where our forwards actually stay in the forward line so they can kick goals, instead of having to roam around the backline to help get it out of defense. When we take it out of defense we often cough it up or kick it to a badly out of position player. I suspect that in part is because we are always leading to the boundary which makes us extremely predictable. It also means that when we cough it up the opposition can skip through the centre corridor because again our players are on the boundaries.

We need to replace guys with poor disposal with those with better disposal. No point getting the ball 10 times and having a disposal efficiency of 40% as you we are getting 4 kicks but the opposition is probably getting 6. its almost as if we they have another man on the field playing for them.

[45HG 1,539]

Essendon won the stats tonight (including nearly doubling the clearances) but lost by 28...

[deanox 8,701]

They also had more scoring shots for most of the night. I wish we had that problem!

[Demon Dynasty 15,684]

I posted this in response to a poster's comment on how we matched Carlton in the "Clearances" stat (almost) on Sunday.......

........."If you were thinking of using "Clearances" as a demonstration of where your team is at in the mid field then think again.

The Demons are ranked 17th after 6 rounds. Yet guess who sits below us in 18th spot! You'd never guess....the Mighty Cats!! Yep. They're worse than us in that particular stat. And the Pies.....16th and Carlton 10th. And i'm pretty sure most pundits would rank the Cats mid field alot higher than us at present.

A somewhat more telling stat in this area is (IMO) "Effective Disposals" which, as you would no doubt already know, is an indicator of how well you are using the ball when you do get it, ie., a reasonable indicator of ball usage & skills.

On that stat you have the following results after 6 rounds of data......

1. Essendon

2. Geelong

3. Hawthorn

4. Port

5. North

6. Collingwood

7. Sydney

8. Richmond

9. Carlton

10. Brisbane

11. St Kilda

12. Gold Coast

13. West Coast

14. Bulldogs

15. GWS

16. Adelaide

17. Freemantle

18. Melbourne "

End

Stats: Courtesy of Footywire

[rjay 23,948]

Look I'm going to say this again. Most of the stats that we use are worked in hindsight...why did that team win, it was because of dah, dah, dah....

This is also the problem with KPI's that are based on stats.

I say that the scoreboard is the only stat or KPI that counts and as someone that looks at the game and analyses it to the n'th degree I know that seems simplistic but at the end of the day it's all that matters. How many GFC players had played under 50 games tonight, a lot. Well maybe they shouldn't win but then you add Bartell, Selwood, Enright etc. etc. to the mix and you get why the stat standing alone makes no sense at all.

According to the stats and KPI's Sydney lost last years GF and by a fair way, as Geelong lost the game tonight. But hang on, what's going on here, they won it, they held the cup. Well there are a hole bunch of intangibles that can't be accounted for and that's where things come unstuck.

Stats don't tell our story, our biggest problem at the moment is we don't have Bartell, Selwood, Enright etc. and even that in itself is not the answer although it would make things easier. How did these guys grow into the players and the team they are, Geelong was a basket case. The team was built from the top down.

We have suffered from bad management from the board to CEO and now we have the opportunity to change that. Until we get that right there is no point changing the coach, it's just a bandaid solution. Our current coach places way to much emphasis in games played, yes it plays a part but it doesn't tell the full story. Some of our crucial recruiting decisions have been based on that stat and I think it is a mistake.

Longwinded answer to midfield stats but I am concerned about the idea that stats can tell the story. The fact that we play with an oval ball really makes stats that much more difficult to assign to reason as to why a team wins or doesn't win. Think St. Kilda v Collingwood one bounce of the ball and it's a whole different story.

[Demon Dynasty 15,684]

I suspect that our players are trying too hard to maintain their press and positions that they become fixated on that role instead of adapting it to the conditions, i.e. leave your man at times to contest or put pressure on someone elses man. Our poor disposal is obviously the biggest issue in my mind. When we have the ball our players start to move into attack then we give a garbage kick or handpass to an opposition player who either kicks a goal or links up with other players free because our players are going the wrong way. Our players also have a play-on at all times mentality even to the point of being suicidal, while some players will hold the ball and ignore short leads from free players and then end up kicking it to a contest. I would love to see a game where our forwards actually stay in the forward line so they can kick goals, instead of having to roam around the backline to help get it out of defense. When we take it out of defense we often cough it up or kick it to a badly out of position player. I suspect that in part is because we are always leading to the boundary which makes us extremely predictable. It also means that when we cough it up the opposition can skip through the centre corridor because again our players are on the boundaries.We need to replace guys with poor disposal with those with better disposal. No point getting the ball 10 times and having a disposal efficiency of 40% as you we are getting 4 kicks but the opposition is probably getting 6. its almost as if we they have another man on the field playing for them.

Excellent summary Dee. Very robotic (slow motion 80's style) once we lose possession, overly predictable once we do get it (mostly looking to head boundary side ) and gifting the ball to our opponents far too often which boosts their confidence, deflates ours and as you said it's effectively like gifting them 1 or 2 extra men on the field. Also we seem incapable of handballing 2 to 3 times quickly in succession around stoppages and congestion in order to escape that congestion and find an outside runner.

Also there is some debate on here about zones. I'm yet to be convinced that's what Neeld is implementing. I need to review more matches before I'm convinced but from what I can tell so far, it's players just "thinking" too much or still not knowing their roles or incapable of manning up that makes it look as if they're guarding space when in effect they're just lost and not sure who they're supposed to be marking.

There wae a moment in the 1st quarter against the Lions a few weeks back. Terlich marking Redden (I think) & Chip marking Brown. Both Lions players running through the top of the goal square deep in the forward line. For some reason Terlich decided to also mark Brown allowing his opponent to make an unmarked lead straight up the middle for the hit up. He marked, goaled and vavoom they were off again. Meanwhile poor old chip was left in Reddens wake having to leave Brown and try to stop the mark with no hope of getting there. If you didn't watch that piece of play carefully u wld swear we were guarding space or trying out some sort of wacky zone, and very poorly. But no. Was just confusion by 1 player in this case.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

I actually think the uncontested disposals stat is the most important for us. IMO it reflects our positioning and the effectiveness of the zone as we always seem miles from our opponent and allow them to set up play very easily.

We are ranked 18th in uncontested possessions differential.. We are also ranked 18th in uncontested disposals.

IMO that stat reflects the failure of Neeld's structures. Either the setup of them or the implementing of them. Bother are his responsibility.

Totally agree that uncontested possession is really important. We're getting better at spreading from the contest but we're not there yet.

It's nothing to do with effort, even though it might look that way at times.

It's about having faith in each other and transitioning from inside to outside and into defence in a split second rather than having to think about it.

If you compare our last 2 or 3 games with the earlier rounds you'll find that we've improved hugely with this.

[dee-luded 2,958]

It must be the day for hate.......I hate all these stats and analytical BS.......What happened to the days of....Get the ball and kick it through the goals.....If you kick more than the opposition.....You win.....Gee it's a simple game after all....

the size of the interchange bench allows the coaches to have more stategic plays & tactics, as the players can run 'further', 'harder', to enact all these strategies. I agree we have lost the beautiful simplicity & spontaneity,,, & creativity of the original game.

we need to reduce the bench by one more to reduce the ability for the players to cover so much area by leg

we can still have less bench,,, but still have Coaches strategic flexibility, via a (2 man bench, with more subs), its just the rotations will come down & players will have to stay onfield longer, or be subbed Off.

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

I suspect that our players are trying too hard to maintain their press and positions that they become fixated on that role instead of adapting it to the conditions, i.e. leave your man at times to contest or put pressure on

I suspect our players are lazy, crap and dumb as dogshit.