The 2 Jacks Experiment

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

When the end of the year comes, whether we keep the coach, players, staff, the one thing that has got to end is the 2 Jacks experiment.

It was a gamble which has failed, and we must cut our losses before these two players are exhausted beyond reprieve.

The player with the most authority, seniority and maturity is Mitch Clark. He should be made captain at the end of this year

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

I think Jack Grimes has been very good this year.

As for Trenners, i believe the captaincy may have weighed him down a bit, but not nearly as much as missing the bulk of the last two preseasons.

[Chook 15,000]

Unless the captaincy is two tons of bricks, I'm not sure that is Jack Trengove's problem.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Jones should've been given the captaincy.

But Grimes has been excellent and it's his now.

It was a mistake to give Trengove the captaincy, but ego's get in the road of anything being done to change that.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Grimes does not have the maturity to stamp his authority on the players.

Mitch is the only real man amongst a team of boys., with Jonesy a most capable vice.

[Gorgoroth 12,717]

Prob with Mitch is he is injured all the time

[Lordweaver 235]

mitch or jones for captain, grimes vice

[warren dean 193]

Grimes is developing into a very good Captain. I have no issue with Trengove's performance as a leader either, notwithstanding his lack of a preseason. His form has been reasonable in the last couple of games. The best leader (s) should be Captain, not necessarily the best player(s). Sometimes they are one and the same. I am not a Neeld a fan but I think he got this right.

[Nasher 33,607]

Why would Jones be such a better captain than Grimes?

[rpfc 28,057]

If Trengove wants to concentrate on his footy and give up the captaincy then that is his decision.

I am not about to applaud the removal of an impressive young Demon from the captaincy - on the surface it will look like we have ANOTHER scapegoat for our problems.

Trengove is underdone and is showing it. But that is not reason enough to demote a captain.

There is more to leadership than being the best midfielder in the team.

Which, I am sorry to say, I feel is the driving force of some of the 'Jones for Trengove' proponents.

Edited April 30, 2013 by rpfc

[rjay 24,648]

The call for Jones I find amusing, not having a go at Jones here as I think he is a good on-field leader but the captains were named at the start of the 2012 season. Jones only found his way in the game in season 2012, he looked like he could have been another great Melbourne casualty in 2011. High draft pick, what's his best position, does he have a best position, bad decision maker, poor disposal etc.

If you were to start again and draw the line starting this year then I think Jones would be the captain....timing is everything.

[DeeSpencer 24,816]

But why pass the buck?

We know Grimes and Trengove train at a top level, were leaders of their junior clubs (states even) and play like leaders.

You can't say Grimes isn't out there giving it his all every week.

Clark has a lot of injury worries and trying to lead a team from FF/CHF isn't easy either. Jones is playing like a leader but that doesn't mean he has to be captain.

Let's wait and see what Trengove can do for the rest of this year. If he keeps leading the tackle count then thats a start if you ask me.

[Ted Lasso 18,853]

Would it really be the worst thing for Mark Neeld to say to Jack Trengove, " Look mate, we think you can be an elite midfielder of this comp but are starting to be concerned the captaincy may be weighing on you, how would you feel about being part of the leadership group and having our blessing to focus 100% on becoming the best possible footballer? "

if he wants to be captain that's fine, the worst scenario would be that he feels he has to be.

Keeping in mind my preference is he remains captain, i think if he had the last two full pre seasons he'd be the player we all want him to be and he wills till get there just in time to see us rise up the ladder.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Demonfan26

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

The call for Jones I find amusing, not having a go at Jones here as I think he is a good on-field leader but the captains were named at the start of the 2012 season. Jones only found his way in the game in season 2012, he looked like he could have been another great Melbourne casualty in 2011. High draft pick, what's his best position, does he have a best position, bad decision maker, poor disposal etc.

If you were to start again and draw the line starting this year then I think Jones would be the captain....timing is everything.

If we'd kept Mcdonald around as Captain then once he had retired, Jones would have risen to be the player he is now and could have very well taken over the role as Captain.

The timing would have been absolutely perfect.

But we can't do anything about that now.

We have Grimes and Trenners, i think Grime has particularly fullfilled the role of Captain.

These two young men have had an absolute baptism of fire, which (if they make it out "alive") will make them strong Captains for years to come.

[stuie 7,374]

When the end of the year comes, whether we keep the coach, players, staff, the one thing that has got to end is the 2 Jacks experiment.

It was a gamble which has failed, and we must cut our losses before these two players are exhausted beyond reprieve.

The player with the most authority, seniority and maturity is Mitch Clark. He should be made captain at the end of this year

Clark? You mean the player who missed half of last year and will miss half of this year? Love him, but not a sensible choice. If you're going to change, has to be Jones.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Clark? You mean the player who missed half of last year and will miss half of this year? Love him, but not a sensible choice. If you're going to change, has to be Jones.

Stuie, no need to be a smart arse. BBB made the comment about Clark BEFORE it was announced he would miss a considerable amount of footy.

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie, no need to be a smart arse. BBB made the comment about Clark BEFORE it was announced he would miss a considerable amount of footy.

Not to be labelled a "smart arse" again, but Clark's injury was announced about an hour before this thread was started, as was the thread called "Mitch Clark out for 6-8 weeks".

[alias275 259]

I agree, they all look up to Clark and I'm sure once this screw is out of his foot, he will be right.

They are doing it now (instead of end of season as first planned) because it has been giving him the aggravation and limitations due to being fully healed from the fracture.

Though Grimes is doing a fair job and Jones could easily be our captain.

Trenners definitely needs to focus on his footy and footy only. Captain has killed the poor bugger.

Clark, Grimes or Jones would be the pick. Let the players decide I reckon. Just like most clubs do.

[T-34 409]

I agree, they all look up to Clark and I'm sure once this screw is out of his foot, he will be right.

They are doing it now (instead of end of season as first planned) because it has been giving him the aggravation and limitations due to being fully healed from the fracture.

Though Grimes is doing a fair job and Jones could easily be our captain.

Trenners definitely needs to focus on his footy and footy only. Captain has killed the poor bugger.

Clark, Grimes or Jones would be the pick. Let the players decide I reckon. Just like most clubs do.

Captaincy hasn't killed Trenners, lack of preseason has killed him.

[The heart beats true 17,829]

Can I just say that it says a lot more about our footy club that these 2 quality young blokes were made captains than it does about them as players. We'll never know what impact it's had on them as players but I will say that I think given the enormous pressure our club has been under, and the obvious grumblings in the footy community about senior players being passed over, they've always done their best.

Even I, of the sack the coach, sack the board, sack the president, sack the boot studder brigade, believe you can't sacrifice 2 young guys doing their absolute best. You have to give them as much support as possible and push on. It might not have been the best choice, but I think we should all die trying to support them because the alternative is the ultimate culture killer.

[DeeSpencer 24,816]

Captaincy hasn't killed Trenners, lack of preseason has killed him.

It's not like he's fully dead either. He had 17 touches and 10 tackles and I think he mainly played on Redden who had 24 touches and a goal but didn't kill us.

We'd love both of the Jacks to be game changes. That's why people are calling for Clark and Jones because they are the game changers on our list. Grimes can save a game playing good footy off a half back flank but can't exactly win one either back or in the middle. Trenners is tagging and trying.

As much as I'd love a team of game changers I'd settle for blokes who break even and beat their men or halve the contest. I see that thinking in why that Jack's are captain because Neeld wants a team of guys who do the hard but simple stuff first.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Like many have said, captaincy is not about how well you play, but about how much authority you have. The Jacks, particularly Grimesy are putting on a brave face, but blind freddy could see that neither of them are true figures of authority. They are boys pretending to be men.

What bitterly disappoints me is how Trenners went backwards as soon as he was given the captain's hat.

He was a dynamic midfielder with flair and style under Bailey. Nowadays he is dull. To me it seems he just has too much on his mind, and a young fella making his way in the game does not need to be thinking about directing a bunch of other blokes.

For those who have pointed out that Clarky is injured etc., sure we know that now, but in any case, if you read the OP, you will see I am suggesting this needs to change next year, not now. Obviously if Mitch's foot is still a mess, we will know by then.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Bring Back Barassi

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Not to be labelled a "smart arse" again, but Clark's injury was announced about an hour before this thread was started, as was the thread called "Mitch Clark out for 6-8 weeks".

Mate, this thread was posted 11 hours bfore the injury was announced, not one hour after. I think "dumb arse" is a more appropriate label than "smart arse".

[Red N Blue Society 165]

I agree with this call....have for some time. Grimes & Trenners captaincy FAIL.

Mitch Clark for Captain.

Chunk VC

Or vice versa.

[rpfc 28,057]

I agree with this call....have for some time. Grimes & Trenners captaincy FAIL.

Mitch Clark for Captain.

Chunk VC

Or vice versa.

One has been incredibly solid and the other has hardly been on the park.

If we had Jones and Clark I would say this about the new captaincy dynamic:

One has been incredibly solid and the other has hardly been on the park.