The Smear and Innuendo of Faceless Men

[Dr. Gonzo 22,632]

I have created this thread as I was interested in the discussion in the "New CEO" thread which was closed as it strayed off topic. Well here is the topic for the discussion to continue.

I must say some of the things being hinted at in that thread (and its always only "hinted at") made me feel very poorly about the club. I think the time is now to clear the air and stop with all the innuendo about faceless men who some say were involved in fracturing the club in one way or another. It's time for the club to wipe the slate clean and there is NO WAY this can happen and the can club can ever move forward let alone BE SUCCESSFUL if the club is allowed to be dominated by backstage politics. Reading that thread felt more like an ALP Caucus meeting than discussion about a FOOTBALL club. It seems the same types who Smith had issues with and ended up sacking him still permeate the club.

So here it is - this thread is to get it all out in the open so that us "common folk" who are the backbone of the club and pay hundreds or thousands of dollars each and every year to support the team and club are given the opportunity to assess all the facts and make our own minds up about how this club should best be managed/run.

Specific posters seem to be recurring themes around these discussions and they know who they are so here it is, this is your chance to clear the air.

[Binmans PA 26,510]

Yeah, it appears to be all about ego. I don't think this thread will reveal anything though, DG. However, I will watch it with interest.

[DeeSpencer 23,506]

Is it actually a big issue?

I thought our board was pretty good and all clubs have back stage mutterings but I think ours are better than north or the dogs.

I think it's the link between the board, CEO, footy department that needs fixing.

[Little Goffy 12,782]

One of those issues that keeps popping up in International Development studies.

Many people would rather be the king of the slum than just another person in a functioning town.

There's also a common kind of dysfunctional loyalty - "I've been a supporter for 50 years, so the club owes me something". Often voices in some variation of the bizarre notoin that they are now entitled to a premiership.

Sometimes I got the feeling Moloney had a bit of that - "I bleed red and blue so I am kingsh!t around here and nobody can tell me what to do".

Anyway, personally I detest people who run little campaign out of the side of their mouth, and it has been obvious for a long time that there are plenty of 'people of informal influence' at the Melbourne football club who love that kind of thing.

[stuie 7,374]

Politics and conspiracies.

Welcome to Demonland.

Edited April 25, 2013 by stuie

[rpfc 27,646]

Goddamnit, stuie.

I post about this fractured club from time to time and I know that Jimmy brought a great number of people back who hadn't been at the club. There are still those who refuse to talk to, or acknowledge, those involved in the merger.

That was 17 years ago.

We also don't have the luxury to scorch the earth here with our disenchanted sons and daughters.

We have to talk to them, convince them to help the club, and reform them to stay in the tent facing out - if you know what I mean.

Apart from that - try to run the club well and start winning.

And a note to those doing the running, if not the winning - take criticism well.

It's for the good of the club.

[Whispering_Jack 28,094]

Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

WJ's information is consistent with my own. Certainly one disgruntled ex employee - whose extreme bitterness was known at the time of his termination - was instrumental in escalating the investigation. We can condemn that person's vitreole - but it is not uncommon for ex-employees to carry deep-seated grudges and it is not something human resource management expertise can necessarily prevent.

The club knows who that person is - and it is reasonable to conclude that he ( and his fellow stirrers) will never get close enough to the club again to do any more damage.Wilson may not be a scrupulous journalist - but I think she's shrewd enough to know when she has played all her cards - and when it is time to move to the next game.

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

[rpfc 27,646]

For me, there are two parallel narratives:

1. Disgruntled former employees telling 'stories' to hurt the club. Like 'Neeld is racist' and 'CC threatened us with Zulus.'

2. A club with many people estranged from it that used to heavily involved in it.

IMO, the former is more of an annoyance, but the latter is holding us back at a time when we need everyone on board. We don't have Gardner-ites at the club, we don't have those involved with Gutnick or Szondy. These are all Demons who tried to do what is in the best interests of the club. Everyone needs to realise that, swallow some pride and come back to a welcoming club.

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

So WJ it is nothing but hearsay at the moment, yet again, no wonder the Club is supposedly destabilised, posters on here can never leave it alone

[The Great Pretender 430]

So WJ it is nothing but hearsay at the moment, yet again, no wonder the Club is supposedly destabilised, posters on here can never leave it alone

Invariably, that and opinion are what it all boils down to in many cases. There's no such thing as absolute truth and we're all entitled to hold opinions and views but just don't do harm (Galen).

Edited April 25, 2013 by The Great Pretender

[rjay 24,046]

Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

...and that's the truth of it. It was a pretty filthy effort from those involved.

So long as they are on the outer and have no influence that's all that matters now, names can come whenever, if ever. If they start to peddle rubbish and create trouble again then the names must come out.

So WJ it is nothing but hearsay at the moment, yet again, no wonder the Club is supposedly destabilised, posters on here can never leave it alone

Not sure what you are getting at here???

[timD 994]

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

What has happened to you ? You would reveal what you knew. I know you then changed your mind. I know that you then said that "more was coming" and, well, that isn't looking flash either. Are we putting this in the "he may tarry" basket?

And the "positive attitude" CEO debate? What were you thinking? You cannot have it both ways - say that the club should be viewed positively - and then complain about a history of bitterness and nasty politics dating back decades. Revisionist? Really Jack? Either there is a problem that applicants should know or there isn't. So now we know there is a problem and we know that the board struggles to make good decisions frequently, then we know that there are reasons in fact that applicants should be wary of the MFC. You are asking for a CEO who is ignorant to our history (a history you complain is vital to understanding the club!) and ignores a board that has presided over a miserable period. Is ther any other description for your position other than hypocrisy? It isn't consistent. It makes no sense.

On the next level, the "worst smear" has nothing to do with you - you are an internet persona. The "worst smear" affects real people, is made about real people and influences real people. Nothing on here goes to any such lengths. Smears about Neeld are real and certainly affected him and Davey, for example. How can you possibly compare yourself to that?

As for the shadow conspiracy, well, you are big about the wrongs of whispering campaigns and are indulging in one right now. Standards you hold for others you fail to apply to yourself. There was another poster ON THIS SITE who revealed that a current board member had been talking to and either emailed or SMS'd Caro with information unintentionally. It was several months ago and I was amazed that no-one picked it up. Then Caro threatened to reveal her source inside the club on tele several weeks ago. Coincidence? This has the same level of validity that your information has and you've not bothered to run with it, and you know this information. You are putting forward one view because it suits you.

I've not doubt that ex-employees are been talking to the AFL - Connolly named some in the paper I think. But what you are alleging goes beyond grumbles coerced out of disgruntled souls as part of a heavy-handed AFL investigation. What you are talking about is a long-running, systematic vendetta. With no targets beyond chaos and no goals beyond mayhem.

Jack, this is not a batman movie. Your argument and lack of evidence/information is simply not credible. What is credible is that all our current misfortune is a result of a transaction between AD's personality, media mechanics and humans with failings like poor judgement and entitlement. You are saying that something is happening, which involves people you will not name, for ends you cannot describe with corroborating evidence you also cannot name and frankly might not have.

Get serious Jack.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,632]

Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

WJ, on the one hand I appreciate that you don't wish to reveal the identities of people who may have told you things in confidence; however on the other I can't help but feel that as supporters who care deeply about the club and want to see it on the right track we are helpless to do so unless we are provided with all the information about specific people who only wish to be involved with the MFC to carry out personal vendettas. You allude to the Mifsud/Davey affair and I agree it stinks but I don't think reading back through old news articles is going to enlighten me as to the reason why it occurred as I may not be familiar with the personalities involved especially if they are only hinted at. How can we keep the destabilisers out of the club if we don't know who they are?

On a similar note to the Mifsud/Davey issue I've always found the Polis/EnergyWatch story to be interesting as well. Who discovered the rants on his FB page and leaked it to the media? Was it just a coincidence that it all occurred around the same time as the Mifsud/Davey situation? Were his comments known about prior to this but only made the news at an opportune time? No-one in the media ever revealed how they came to know about the comments made by Polis which had been sitting on FB for some time prior to it blowing up in the media.

I guess what it all comes down to is a sense of helplessness that all this politicking/vendettas are going on in the background of my club yet due to a lack of information about who is involved there is really no recourse for me to do anything about it as things are only whispered about and never fully disclosed and I have no idea whether what is being said about certain people (Neeld and McLardy for instance) is only half the story and/or being used to run an agenda. It's all very well to say the members should vote out the board at the AGM if they feel aggrieved with how they run the club but without the FACTS laid bare it is very difficult to make an informed decision.

I guess I just find it astounding that people who purport to love the club would rather hurt it than work together with people they may have issues with to get along for the greater good. I sincerely believe this is the biggest issue facing our club and the reason we have been a rabble for so long. We have no chance of being successful on or off-field while this type of petty bickering goes on behind the scenes (and this has turned into a more general rant and not necessarily directed at you WJ).

[Whispering_Jack 28,094]

What has happened to you ? You would reveal what you knew. I know you then changed your mind. I know that you then said that "more was coming" and, well, that isn't looking flash either. Are we putting this in the "he may tarry" basket?

And the "positive attitude" CEO debate? What were you thinking? You cannot have it both ways - say that the club should be viewed positively - and then complain about a history of bitterness and nasty politics dating back decades. Revisionist? Really Jack? Either there is a problem that applicants should know or there isn't. So now we know there is a problem and we know that the board struggles to make good decisions frequently, then we know that there are reasons in fact that applicants should be wary of the MFC. You are asking for a CEO who is ignorant to our history (a history you complain is vital to understanding the club!) and ignores a board that has presided over a miserable period. Is ther any other description for your position other than hypocrisy? It isn't consistent. It makes no sense.

On the next level, the "worst smear" has nothing to do with you - you are an internet persona. The "worst smear" affects real people, is made about real people and influences real people. Nothing on here goes to any such lengths. Smears about Neeld are real and certainly affected him and Davey, for example. How can you possibly compare yourself to that?

As for the shadow conspiracy, well, you are big about the wrongs of whispering campaigns and are indulging in one right now. Standards you hold for others you fail to apply to yourself. There was another poster ON THIS SITE who revealed that a current board member had been talking to and either emailed or SMS'd Caro with information unintentionally. It was several months ago and I was amazed that no-one picked it up. Then Caro threatened to reveal her source inside the club on tele several weeks ago. Coincidence? This has the same level of validity that your information has and you've not bothered to run with it, and you know this information. You are putting forward one view because it suits you.

I've not doubt that ex-employees are been talking to the AFL - Connolly named some in the paper I think. But what you are alleging goes beyond grumbles coerced out of disgruntled souls as part of a heavy-handed AFL investigation. What you are talking about is a long-running, systematic vendetta. With no targets beyond chaos and no goals beyond mayhem.

Jack, this is not a batman movie. Your argument and lack of evidence/information is simply not credible. What is credible is that all our current misfortune is a result of a transaction between AD's personality, media mechanics and humans with failings like poor judgement and entitlement. You are saying that something is happening, which involves people you will not name, for ends you cannot describe with corroborating evidence you also cannot name and frankly might not have.

Get serious Jack.

No you get serious, stop being disingenuous, stop inventing things I allegedly promised and start by reading what I wrote in the post to which you are apparently responding but doubtlessly haven't bothered reading in full.

I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

[Pink Freud 326]

The new CEO will definitely face some difficult challenges but these people don't get paid peanuts and they are definitely not monkeys like some of the doomsayers around here (and they're around every club).

I therefore agree with those who say this is a terrific club and the reward for helping improve our on field performance will be enormous for the right candidate. Sure, he [edit: or she] will have to deal with the white anters (again, they're around every club) but I don't see the fuss being made by TimD who appears to be on a points scoring exercise every time he starts pontificating about things related to the club.

A wise man once connected with our club once said, "eyes on the ball, not the man and you'll get the job done."

Edited April 25, 2013 by Pink Freud

[Apocalypse XXXI 243]

timD, on 26 Apr 2013 - 08:44, said:

Smears about Neeld are real and certainly affected him and Davey, for example.

So the smears are real after all. In your opinion, how did they get started?

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

No you get serious, stop being disingenuous, stop inventing things I allegedly promised and start by reading what I wrote in the post to which you are apparently responding but doubtlessly haven't bothered reading in full.

I don't think he is being disingenuous, I read it in full, it is another post that promises a lot and delivers little, you have only managed to muddy the waters even more and get the conspiracy theorists a little more excited

I have spoken to most at the Club from Don McLardy downwards, asked a few questions, been given answers, am I to assume that i have been lied to on most things?

[Little Goffy 12,782]

This thread.

Cow falling over a cliff.

If you can tell the difference, you get a prize.

Started in good faith I guess, but now it's all 'MOOOOO' and 'MOOOOO' and beef accelerating towards the ground.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

...and that's the truth of it. It was a pretty filthy effort from those involved.

So long as they are on the outer and have no influence that's all that matters now, names can come whenever, if ever. If they start to peddle rubbish and create trouble again then the names must come out.

Not sure what you are getting at here???

You thinking what I'm thinking rjay?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I find this thread ironic - egotistical people talking about egotistical people undermining the club.

There will always be people wanting to undermine the club or any other club due to the high turnover rate of both staff and executives and personal connections which they bring.

Move on, its a fact of any industry .

Edited April 26, 2013 by H_T
Edited inappropriate language

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

Irony....is you saying the posters are egotistical and your avatar has a large head haha

[mjt 640]

I don't think he is being disingenuous, I read it in full, it is another post that promises a lot and delivers little, you have only managed to muddy the waters even more and get the conspiracy theorists a little more excited

I have spoken to most at the Club from Don McLardy downwards, asked a few questions, been given answers, am I to assume that i have been lied to on most things?

I would assume. Edited April 26, 2013 by mjt

[Demonland 66,532]

This thread.

Cow falling over a cliff.

If you can tell the difference, you get a prize.

Started in good faith I guess, but now it's all 'MOOOOO' and 'MOOOOO' and beef accelerating towards the ground.

Agreed.

Tedious, boring and moo ...

Old agendas that don't serve any purpose.