Brilliant Strategy Unfolding

[ickey_11 145]

So it looks like;

FB: Nicholson, McDonald, Garland

HB: Dunn, Frawley, Watts

C: Trengove, Grimes, Howe

HF: Blease, Dawes, Byrnes

FF: Tapscott, Clarke, Pedderson

Fol: Jamar, Jones, Sylvia

int: Winsey, Vines, McKenzie, Davey

emg: Petterd, Jetta, Gawn

:-)

I am happy!

Rodan is going to get a game before Davey, Tapscott & Dunn.

[Salems Lot 2,381]

I have previously spoken about my serious concerns and absolute disapproval with Neeld. This trade period has exacerbated my concerns. Yes, our club will win more games in 2013 and will be significantly more competitive. However in my opinion we are further away than ever from making the top 4, let alone winning a flag which now looks beyond us this decade.

We have sacrificed our talent and future for short term gain. We have recruited veterans as if our premiership window was open. It is not, history proves youth is the key and we have sold this out for players who are not as good as the players we have recently forced into retirement. These newly recruited veterans will be long retired by the time our traded players would come into peak. It makes no sense except short term job security for Neeld. For example surely it would have been better to keep Green, Gysberts and Martin than trade for Roden, and Brynes...... this is a insulting joke. We paid full price for all recruits bar Viney and although I see Melbourne playing more watchable, more aggressive, and tougher in 2013 I can’t see this group ever making the finals. In my view we have guaranteed the MFC will remain in the 2nd division for the next decade at least. This is a threat to our survival.

Don't get me wrong I wish my view is proved wrong. I just can't see a build for a premiership with these players and tactics, all I can see is a sell out for mid table competitiveness.... ake Richmond under Wallace. God I hope I am wrong but I feel Neeld will prove to be the worst mistake since sacking Norm Smith.

Hey GNF, I am not sure that what you are saying is correct. We still have plenty of young talent on the list: Watts, Blease, Howe, McDonald, Tapscott, Grimes and Trengove are all in the "young" age group.

What Neeld has done is recognise the issue that has been plagueing MFC for years and that is the lack of leadership and experience at the top end of the list. By bringing in experienced, successful players to replace the habitually unsuccessful incumbents at the top end of the age range will help inform the up and comers of the training and playing standards that are required to achieve real success.

This lack of leadership stems back into the Daniher years where the effect of recruiting of players like Ellis and Holland is only now starting to be really felt.

The club has gone through the youth policy and like all recruiting exercises has provided some booms and busts. Morton v McDonald, Gysberts v Howe.

For mine, bringing in Rodan and Byrnes at virtually no cost to play this off field role is a smart move and lets face it Morton and Martin present no real loss. As has been said many times before the sins of previous recruiters are sins of the past and we have to move on.

Add to the list 3 (at least) young players in Viney, Hogan and Barry and they are still topping up at the bottom age level.

The addition of Dawes can be seen as a logical way of supporting Clark and Pedersen is nothing more than a bit of depth.

Where I agree with you is the way we have sold off far too cheaply our experienced players such as Junior, Bruce and Green; we have seen the value that the former 2 are offering other clubs by way of experience to the younger part of the list. Hopefully Brad can be encouraged to do the same at Melbourne.

In conclusion, cutting some deadwood (draft pick number withstanding) will hopefully make us a more streamlined unit into the future.

[Red Demon 67]

FFS I'm sick of the Bailey bashing. Everything has been blamed on him and "his era" yet Neeld is the great white hope. Go back and have a look at the threads when Bailey was first appointed. He was the great hope to get us out of the Daniher mess. What happens if Neeld fails? We'll all start again and claim his successor has now, finally, "got it right".

We have just recruited a bloke who's best was 5 years ago and has played 9 games in the past 2 years, a 30 year old who has had 3 or 4 knee recons, a VFL swingman who couldn't break into a mediocre side, an inconsistent key forward on half a mill a year, and given away 3 players for absolute peanuts.

Sure, Bailey was a failure but I'm sick of everything being blamed on his regime and use this as an excuse to recruit older players to teach the others "how to train". Spare me. Rodan and Byrnes may have played in a GF but so did Aaron Keating, Nathan Ablett, and Aaron Shattock.

This recruiting drive is all Neeld. Should it miraculously work, I'll be the first to eat humble pie. Should it fail, I really hope someone other than Bailey gets the blame.

[sue 8,463]

The pro and con arguments are going around in familiar circles.

How about starting a poll so we can see how many support each position?

With a simple question like "As a result of the trades, is the MFC now in a better position to be a successful club over the coming years?"

[Bring Back Barassi 532]

For those who moan about the mature age recruits only being around for 2 years, keep in mind that at that point in time, Watts, Trenners and Grimey will all be 100+ gamers. Jonesy, Chip and Mitch will be 150+. Add to that Dawes and you've got a pretty solid leadership group to take us from there. Not to mention of course a crop of quality juniors such as Viney, Hogan, Wines/Toumpas, we are looking like a team.

Sure Byrnes, Rodin etc wont be around, but by then, they will no longer be required.

[Maldonboy38 5,972]

Woke up this morning after a sleep in, read the paper with breakfast, and finally decided to check out what's news on Demonland. Is this Syria or Demonland? I can't believe people are so angry after a trading period - it feels like civil war!!

The basis of our trading looks simple to me: we have a new half-forward line of Pederson, Dawes and Byrnes and this shows how Neeld views the forward line of 2012.

The basis of the ND brings in Viney, Barry and probably another young, gun midfielfer with pick 4. Again, this shows that Neeld thinks our midfield is OK in parts - Trengove, Jones, Grimes - but it needs more spark and run.

Getting rid of Gysberts was a mistake and bringing in Rodan was a mistake, but at the very least I can see a strategy, a plan. Is it brilliant? Not really but I think I can see what Neeld id doing.

But it is a lot better than seeing the continual non-development in Morton, Bennell, Bate, Gysberts, Petterd etc... and shuffling deck-chairs on the Titanic.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Woke up this morning after a sleep in, read the paper with breakfast, and finally decided to check out what's news on Demonland. Is this Syria or Demonland? I can't believe people are so angry after a trading period - it feels like civil war!!

The basis of our trading looks simple to me: we have a new half-forward line of Pederson, Dawes and Byrnes and this shows how Neeld views the forward line of 2012.

The basis of the ND brings in Viney, Barry and probably another young, gun midfielfer with pick 4. Again, this shows that Neeld thinks our midfield is OK in parts - Trengove, Jones, Grimes - but it needs more spark and run.

Getting rid of Gysberts was a mistake and bringing in Rodan was a mistake, but at the very least I can see a strategy, a plan. Is it brilliant? Not really but I think I can see what Neeld id doing.

But it is a lot better than seeing the continual non-development in Morton, Bennell, Bate, Gysberts, Petterd etc... and shuffling deck-chairs on the Titanic.

Not attacking your personally Maldonboy as what you said I generally agree with... but

The bolded line I don't know how you can say this as a fact. This is nothing more than your own personal views/speculation. I have no idea how ppl on here can make these acqusations??? Maybe in 12 months time when the plan fails fine go to town... anyway

The rest I agree with - no one knows if this drafting trade period will be sucessful - What I do know and think is this club needed a kick in the arse - and it got it

The future is not being gambled - we are not relying on Dawes/Byrnes/Pederson & Rodan to deliver us flags - they are helping us short term so we can support the development of our CORE kids like Blease/Nicholson/T Mac/ etc and make us competitive short term

Do ppl forget there will be another draft next year - we will draft and obtain more players we need. I want to win some games in 2013 - Thank you Mark Neeld

[DeeZee 6,805]

We dont have the luxury of developing a team of 75% skinny kids, we were non compettitive.

Drastic action had to be taken.

Im with this coach all the way.

[Maldonboy38 5,972]

Not attacking your personally Maldonboy as what you said I generally agree with... but

The bolded line I don't know how you can say this as a fact. This is nothing more than your own personal views/speculation. I have no idea how ppl on here can make these acqusations??? Maybe in 12 months time when the plan fails fine go to town... anyway

The rest I agree with - no one knows if this drafting trade period will be sucessful - What I do know and think is this club needed a kick in the arse - and it got it

The future is not being gambled - we are not relying on Dawes/Byrnes/Pederson & Rodan to deliver us flags - they are helping us short term so we can support the development of our CORE kids like Blease/Nicholson/T Mac/ etc and make us competitive short term

Do ppl forget there will be another draft next year - we will draft and obtain more players we need. I want to win some games in 2013 - Thank you Mark Neeld

Unleash, read over my post again and notice the little phrases I use, such as "it feels" and "to me", and you will quickly see that I am giving my opinion about facts, but not stating my opinion as facts. And nothing I wrote is an accusation. My opinion is that Rodan offers little and Gysberts has suffered from injury rather than poor application.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Interesting point made by one of the commentators today; we've got some mature recruits but which of them are actually leaders?

I'd say we absolutely have a net gain in leadership.

What kind of leadership and experience were Morton, Martin and Gysberts providing? Or the draft picks we traded?

[ox_5 163]

I'd say we absolutely have a net gain in leadership.

What kind of leadership and experience were Morton, Martin and Gysberts providing? Or the draft picks we traded?

Good point.

Byrnes was very well respected in Geelong in regards to setting standards on the training track, and was looked up to in this regard. He is a tireless worker. That to me, is leadership.

Rodan is known for similar traits. Dawes also.

We need guys to help out young captains set the example of how to train and prepare to be AFL standard footballers. These 3 fit the bill.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

Sorry guys couldn't disagree more. The coach has selected discards who may win him enough games to keep his job at years end. What do Rodan and Byrnes offer beyond 1 or 2 seasons. It is outrageous to expect Viney and Wines (if selected) to come in and make an instant impact. Where are the class highly skilled players, the game breakers and match winners. Neeld is a first year coach who frankly I don't think could train pigs to be dirty. What is his long term strategy didn't he say say he was pleased to take over such a great list that wasn't at rock bottom. NO he took us there, insisted on a game style our list couldn't play and has given away Morton, Gysberts and Martin for peanuts. Just watch martin and Gys develop at other clubs

you my friend have no grasp on free agency & how it works. It will be common for players to come in for 1-2 years to perform a specific task. Our list was in such a bad state it will take 2-3 more seasons of hard core trading to balance it out. The strategy of the previous FD was an Epic Fail.

We did well this month for a club nobody rates.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Good point.

Byrnes was very well respected in Geelong in regards to setting standards on the training track, and was looked up to in this regard. He is a tireless worker. That to me, is leadership.

Rodan is known for similar traits. Dawes also.

We need guys to help out young captains set the example of how to train and prepare to be AFL standard footballers. These 3 fit the bill.

I also like the journey some of those players have had to come on:

Rodan - had to leave Richmond, go to SA, work hard at Port, earned a lot of respect there and finished up a valuable contributor. Now he's willing to put in the work to continue his career.

Byrnes - kept turning up and putting in consistently, even though spending a long time relegated to the VFL when clearly good enough for AFL to play in 2 GFs. Tireless.

Pederson - kept working hard to achieve his AFL dream as a mature-age recruit from the VFL, didn't drop his head this year when not getting a game at North and instead won the B&F.

Dawes - large tank, runs all day, throws his body in, solid citizen, hard worker, from a good system, knows what good flag-winning culture looks like. He's being held back by confidence issues, but that can be fixed - still hasn't stopped him working hard.

[binman 38,797]

Has mooney not thought that the older blokes have been brought in to help create an atmosphere & team that will develop the kids...

Nope, too many variables in that equation for ole' moons.

Was just about to post exactly the same thing. I just don't understand why some DL posters (and even more incredibly someone like Mooney who has witnessed first hand the importance of a strong culture) cannot understand why Neeld has targeted the players he has. Its not as if he has been quiet about the fact that to succeed you need an elite training environment and players who are 100% committed to the cause.

As i have noted previously Neeld has basically drafted in a new LG. Rodan, Dawes and Byrnes are noted hard trainers who give it their all. All 3 have great reputations as top club men. Byrnes, who is doing the Kokoda trail in his off season won that award at Geelong despite playing almost all the year in the magoos. Rodan ability to come back from his knee injuries and do the required rehab shows what a pro he is.

I don't know about Pederson but i'm guessing he is also a good trainer and obviously has a great attitude given he won Werribee's b&f meaning he was giving it his all and didn't drop his head - which many players who don't get picked in the seniors struggle to do.

Look at who has left the club. I'm not sure about Rivers work ethic but without knocking them Gysberts, Martin, Moloney and Morton were never lauded for their approach to training and none were considered leaders.

Get rid of non leaders and replace them with leaders and you begin to create a culture where success is possible and kids can develop and fulfill their potential. The club has been correctly criticised for its player development but i reckon a big part of that has been the lack of senior leaders creating the right culture - like Geelong and Sydney famously have. How is bringing a raft of younger kids into the club going to help create that culture? we have tried that approach and it has not worked.

Build the right culture first then when young guns (like Hogan) start they immersed in it from the get go and their development is maximised.

Again i just don't get why people don't understand this.

Edited October 27, 2012 by binman

[Mgdee 319]

I also like the journey some of those players have had to come on:

Rodan - had to leave Richmond, go to SA, work hard at Port, earned a lot of respect there and finished up a valuable contributor. Now he's willing to put in the work to continue his career.

Byrnes - kept turning up and putting in consistently, even though spending a long time relegated to the VFL when clearly good enough for AFL to play in 2 GFs. Tireless.

Pederson - kept working hard to achieve his AFL dream as a mature-age recruit from the VFL, didn't drop his head this year when not getting a game at North and instead won the B&F.

Dawes - large tank, runs all day, throws his body in, solid citizen, hard worker, from a good system, knows what good flag-winning culture looks like. He's being held back by confidence issues, but that can be fixed - still hasn't stopped him working hard.

Although I can't say I agree with everything Neeld has done during this trading period, I can see at least some semblance of a plan missing in recent years.

Jose, liked your comments about incoming players(especiallyPederson), if some of the players offloaded had had a similar attitude they would still be Melbourne players.

Only time is going to tell if we are on the right track or not, but it was obvious the one we were on was taking us nowhere.

[Biffen 12,380]

If we get 15 or so games from Rodan this year and he shows us how to shark a tap-I will be stoked.

Byrnes will probably replace Joel Mac

Pedersen may rob Sellars of a spot in time.

The real improvement should be in the Grimes ,Trengrove ,Watts ,Mckenzie ,Tapscott ,Jetta age group.

We will improve next year and while we may lose-I have the feeling that we wont get "beat" too much .

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Unleash, read over my post again and notice the little phrases I use, such as "it feels" and "to me", and you will quickly see that I am giving my opinion about facts, but not stating my opinion as facts. And nothing I wrote is an accusation. My opinion is that Rodan offers little and Gysberts has suffered from injury rather than poor application.

I was actually only commenting on the bolded bit of your last past - but all good nothing wrong with your opinion.

All i was trying to say - which i clearly did poorly haha was that guys like Gys who Neeld felt wouldn't contribute short term were replaced with bloke he though would ie Rodan

Thats how i see it

If it is a mistake getting rid of Gys for Rodan only time will tell - can't make a call if it is right or wrong now

[jnrmac 19,203]

ok fair call, we won a final. we weren't a laughing stock. we had something to cheer about. I revise my statement to six years of irrelevancy

Agreed

[jnrmac 19,203]

Just saw Cam Pederson's brief highlight package on MFC.com. Looks impressive, good hands & can kick too. I''m happy with the swap for Gys considering we can land another good midfielder with Pick 4.

Definitely worth putting that in bold. Really emphasised your point.

[jnrmac 19,203]

you my friend have no grasp on free agency & how it works. It will be common for players to come in for 1-2 years to perform a specific task. Our list was in such a bad state it will take 2-3 more seasons of hard core trading to balance it out. The strategy of the previous FD was an Epic Fail.

We did well this month for a club nobody rates.

Exhibit A J Pod.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

FFS I'm sick of the Bailey bashing. Everything has been blamed on him and "his era" yet Neeld is the great white hope. Go back and have a look at the threads when Bailey was first appointed. He was the great hope to get us out of the Daniher mess. What happens if Neeld fails? We'll all start again and claim his successor has now, finally, "got it right".

...This recruiting drive is all Neeld. Should it miraculously work, I'll be the first to eat humble pie. Should it fail, I really hope someone other than Bailey gets the blame.

Good post and its value will be missed as where its needed.

The pro and con arguments are going around in familiar circles.

How about starting a poll so we can see how many support each position?

With a simple question like "As a result of the trades, is the MFC now in a better position to be a successful club over the coming years?"

We wont know what the impact will be for at least 12 months.

Changes had to be made to the list. Neeld has been given significant firepower, lets see what he can do in 2013.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Woke up this morning after a sleep in, read the paper with breakfast, and finally decided to check out what's news on Demonland. Is this Syria or Demonland? I can't believe people are so angry after a trading period - it feels like civil war!!

The basis of our trading looks simple to me: we have a new half-forward line of Pederson, Dawes and Byrnes and this shows how Neeld views the forward line of 2012.

The basis of the ND brings in Viney, Barry and probably another young, gun midfielfer with pick 4. Again, this shows that Neeld thinks our midfield is OK in parts - Trengove, Jones, Grimes - but it needs more spark and run.

Getting rid of Gysberts was a mistake and bringing in Rodan was a mistake, but at the very least I can see a strategy, a plan. Is it brilliant? Not really but I think I can see what Neeld id doing.

But it is a lot better than seeing the continual non-development in Morton, Bennell, Bate, Gysberts, Petterd etc... and shuffling deck-chairs on the Titanic.

That was my biggest gripe I thought that Gysberts should have been retained and couldn't understand why you would bring in a player with suspect knees and hammys to replace him.

I understand that we had to change and what he's done is probably right but it hurts to see some of the players at the club get the flick like this. I guess I'll get over it but I nearly always think that a player on our list can be salvaged; even if at times they can't.

[bing181 8,188]

My opinion is that Rodan offers little and Gysberts has suffered from injury rather than poor application.

This injury issue with Gysberts keeps being brought up. Sure, he was injured - but not so injured he couldn't play 16 games in 2012. Evans was much more seriously injured, as was Taggert, yet they haven't been traded.

[bing181 8,188]

That was my biggest gripe I thought that Gysberts should have been retained and couldn't understand why you would bring in a player with suspect knees and hammys to replace him.

I see it like this. Who would I rather Dom Barry was training alongside: Jordan Gysberts or David Rodan?

[diesel 420]

This injury issue with Gysberts keeps being brought up. Sure, he was injured - but not so injured he couldn't play 16 games in 2012. Evans was much more seriously injured, as was Taggert, yet they haven't been traded.

Injury would have has SFA to do with Gysberts delisting. Taggert is a first year player who has evidently come to us with an injury and some interrelated problems as I understand it.