FAREWELL STEFAN MARTIN - SEPTEMBER 2012

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Martin to collingwood for wellingham + 2nd round pick (would free up their slary cap and in this situation it would be a sellers market)

spencer +2nd round (FAcompo not viney f/s) to collingwood for wellingham (could free up jolly to do the brown role)

i would prefer the latter but would accept the former.

Melbourne quite simply just do not have enough players which other teams want and if we want to be active traders then i'll repeat what has been repeated 30ish times...you have to give something good to get something good

So Collingwood are going to give us Wellingham AND a second rounder just for Martin?

While I think the boy can play he is not worth that much.

Jumbo - His 3 games in the middle of the year against Brisbane, Richmond and Freo were terrific, where he averaged 20 disposals, 7 marks over 20 hit outs and kicked 4 goals. Not too shabby for the big fella. True, his following two games against Port and North (where he got injured) were not that flash but to say he was "unflattering" during his games this year is wrong.

[BIG JIM 508]

Martin in 2011 when he was given the ruck job while Jamar was out, was outstanding.

Martin IMO is a much better ruck then Jamar and younger.

Trade Jamar to Collingwood for Wellingham and keep Martin for the number 1 spot.

Martin, Jones, Viney, Wellingham i like in 2013.

[Gippsland Dee 367]

It's not just the rucking that's the issue, YDE.

It's about the 1% percenters that Neeld now demands and expects.

He does numerous 2nd and 3rd efforts though! i don't see jamar doing these things. Jamar is a good ruckman but i think the game has passed him a bit as ruckman are more athletic now and he is more of a lumbering giant

[jumbo returns 6,504]

He does numerous 2nd and 3rd efforts though! i don't see jamar doing these things. Jamar is a good ruckman but i think the game has passed him a bit as ruckman are more athletic now

Not every team has a Nik Nat or Cox. I wouldn't call Sandilands, Jolly, Maric, Mumford, Hudson or Pike too athletic.

Okay, this is what I'm saying - Stef's first effort has to do with feeding his midfielders and protecting Jones, Trengove, Grimes and whoever rotates through the centre bounce and stoppages.

As Wiseblood said, his games were quite good (in patches) but he makes poor decisions and turns the ball over.

He's not a ball carrier and needs to play a more disciplined role.

[rolly 149]

So Collingwood are going to give us Wellingham AND a second rounder just for Martin?

i readily admit it is overs for him, it just depends on how desperate the pies are to get him and how bad we want to get rid of him.

Martin is still contracted so as far as i see it if someone wants him they can pay the asking price or worst case scenario they pass and we get to keep a quality ruck who may well push jamar into an early coaching role.

[Akum 2,660]

Jamar uses his body far better at stoppages than Martin. That's not at all surprising - Jamar has had 9 years where the only position he's played is No 1 ruck. Martin has been played all over the ground and is very much still learning the game. As someone said, after 5 years he's still got a big upside because he has so much to learn, especially as a ruckman.

But Jamar's taps seem to be very predictable, very easy for opposition mids to rove to. If he's not under instructions to do this, it makes him very one-dimensional, even if he wins many tap-outs.

And Jamar gives nothing - absolutely zero - around the ground. Rarely more than 5 kicks or 10 possessions a game, and it's not like he doesn't turn it over when he gets it, it just doesn't seem as much because he hardly ever gets it. Rarely kicks goals - except for that single game against Carlton where he got 5 goals from 5 kicks from being one-out in the square & capitalising from breakaways in a game where we were killed.

At least Martin gets the ball enough to (occasionally) turn it over! In fact, all ruckmen who get enough of the ball around the ground turn it over a fair bit, especially off the boot. Great disposal by foot simply isn't their thing. It's why ruckmen make lousy CHFs.

Jamar certainly looks like a great ruckman at stoppages. He simply isn't that effective over the whole game. If we continue to rely on him as first ruck, we will be perhaps the only team that gets zero input around the ground (i.e. from everything other than stoppages) from their No.1 ruckman, which puts far more pressure on our other talls around the ground to make up for the drive we're not getting from the first ruck.

Jumbo, sounds to me like you're just comparing Jamar's best with Martin's worst, not their overall contribution. Or comparing Jamar in the ruck with Martin at CHF, which is equally unbalanced. You're not acknowledging the things that Martin does better and that Jamar does worse.

There's been a very strong recent history of second-string ruckmen at one club getting more opportunities at another and ripping it up - Mumford, Maric, Jacobs, even Hale, as well as Jolley, Ottens, Gardiner et al from a while back. If Martin was groomed for No.1 ruck at a top club, especially if he could learn the craft from someone like Jolley (as NikNat has been able to learn from Cox), he would be another name on this list.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Fact of the matter is if we trade Martin and Jamar gets injured, its Spencil and Gawn or Sellar or whatever combination they can come up with. I'd rather Martin.

Would hate to see Martin tearing it up as first ruck for another team. That one would hurt. especially if it's the Pies!

[rpfc 27,570]

Fact of the matter is if we trade Martin and Jamar gets injured, its Spencil and Gawn or Sellar or whatever combination they can come up with. I'd rather Martin.

Would hate to see Martin tearing it up as first ruck for another team. That one would hurt. especially if it's the Pies!

We need mids.

Martin needs first ruck.

Jamar is first ruck.

If this deal is offered we take it.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

Stef Martin would only be traded for one reason..lazy.

He has high potential to turn into a much better player....If we trade him now I can see a Jolly situation happening where he goes & wins a flag at another club like Syd/Coll and we lose again.

We should try to keep him..when he wants to he can actually dominate & run and has a fantastic leap..He just doesnt do it enough because of his work ethic which doesnt get him in the side.(LAZY!) IMO anyway.

Dont let him go Demons!

We dont need him to trade to the Pies..we can just buy Wellingham anyway! We have the financial Muscle!

[old55 21,397]

Martin got a poor result in the B+F - lower average votes per game than Spencer. That says plenty.

[rpfc 27,570]

We dont need him to trade to the Pies..we can just buy Wellingham anyway! We have the financial Muscle!

Great!

How do you get him?

Do you think GWS or GC will overlook him in the PSD? Do you think the fear of going to GWS will make him go home to Perth instead of the Demons? Do you want him to go into the ND where anyone can get him?

Or do you want to do a trade?

And who do you want to trade?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,249]

To say a near 27 year old "has plenty of improvement in him" is really answering its own question. He is an ok ruckman, an ok backman and a mediocre forward. He is not soft but does not play with an aggression expected of one with his physique. His natural athleticism occasionally allows him to do acts that make your mouth water. In some it makes them forget the times when his lack of football nous shows the exact opposite. He is not to be gotten rid of for anything but he is exactly the type of second string player who has true currency that could improve our overall list position.

Edited September 16, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[olisik 4,060]

Martin for Wellingham in a heartbeat

Why hang onto spuds who keep us in 16th place on the ladder

[Redleg 37,890]

To say a near 27 year old "has plenty of improvement in him" is really answering its own question. He is an ok ruckman, an ok backman and a mediocre forward. He is not soft but does not play with an aggression expected of one with his physique. His natural athleticism occasionally allows him to do acts that make your mouth water. In some it makes them forget the times when his lack of football nous shows the exact opposite. He is not to be gotten rid of for anything but he is exactly the type of second string player who has true currency that could improve our overall list position.

He is actually 25 turning 26 in November.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,249]

He is actually 25 turning 26 in November.

Much the muchness for mine.

[Redleg 37,890]

I tend to agree with Akum, Jamar really gives us nothing. Averaged 12 games a year. Now can't run, kick or tackle. His marking is now not great. Misses goals from close in regularly when he does grab one. His only talent is the tap and lately he just hits it anywhere.Often just taps it straight down at his feet and we get another ball up. He is 29 and I think we would get a better deal from him than Martin and Martin has more strings to his bow. However Martin has also missed a lot of games but is 3 years younger. He was fantastic as our lone ruckman when Jamar and Spencer were injured.This is a difficult one, but clearly Jamar won't be there a long time and maybe he is the one to go.

I suppose we see what is offered.

[Tatu 416]

Jamar would be a great decoy full-forward for Clark...... I'd get jamar to work hard on his goal kicking over the preseason, and plant him at full-forward... He can spilt packs, he can mark and he can take the number 1 or 2 defender..... I'd be surprised if he didn't get more than 30 goals for the year....

Martin plays number 1 ruck, with Jamar as insurance......

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Martin for Wellingham in a heartbeat

Why hang onto spuds who keep us in 16th place on the ladder

Martin is not the reason we are a lowly team.

You have this obsession with trading. How about you analyze our ruck stocks before you decide to trade any of the out.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

About time we traded someone at their peak value and stopped worrying about what we're losing

Whatever happens to Stef after this year IDGAFF

[jumbo returns 6,504]

IDGAFF!

Yes! Another one...I'm getting good at working these out

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

haha I thought i'd keep up the traditions!!

But in all seriousness i don't

[stuie 7,374]

What do you think the trade will be? They get Martin as long as Cloke stays?! WTF?!

Get your heads out the sand you people who think we can make trades for some kind of gentleman's agreement about some conditional matter, it's just silly.

[jumbo returns 6,504]

At least get his name right.

[Gippsland Dee 367]

That's overrating Martin.

Big Stef's a pea-heart compared to Maric.

he's a really good talent though! we'd miss him if he does indeed leave

[Gippsland Dee 367]

Martin for Wellingham in a heartbeat

Why hang onto spuds who keep us in 16th place on the ladder

He's not a spud mate! the things he can do, only a handful of ruckman can!