Will Neeld be our 'spade work' coach?

[Guest]

Before anyone jumps on me about talking Mark Neeld down, hear me out.

I support 100% what Mark Neeld is trying to do at the MFC. The culture of that place is rotten, spoilt and reeking of a sense of entitlement. They have produced soft as butter footballers who can play when someone tweaks their nose (Essendon last year) but when things don't go their way, they turn up their toes and die (All of 2012, 186).

However, I realize football is an industry that requires results and which the media glare turns quickly on those who have not produced quantifiable results. The mess at this club might take 5 years or more to clean up. I would suggest if Neeldy hasn't got at least 9 wins by next year, the wolves will be well and truly at his door.

That being said, I do think if he does get moved on, he and Neil Craig will leave a foundation behind that would allow his successor to thrive. It has happened in the past. Most people look at Ron Barassi's time at Melbourne as a bit of a debacle but it has been said that both he and Slug Jordon raised the expectations around the place that lead to the relative success of the late 80's/early 90's. Could Neeldy be that coach for us? (I hope not but it gives me some hope for the future in case the board tires of him).

[beelzebub 23,383]

Heres the , to me, hole in the logic.. If Neeld and Craig do such a job that whomever folowed was to be successful as the legacy they left was sound. Why would you not let them continue as they were/are obviously on the right track ?

So manyhere expect overnight turnarounds..This build and refinement WILL take seasons. It will take that long because we are coming from such a low base. Is that the fault of Craig and Nelld ? Hardly its the fault of successions of inept FD's and coaches.

So many want to judge the abilities of these blokes on where we are right now. For miines thats ridiculous.

A years time will give a much clearer indication of direction and progress.

[IRW 1,387]

I've posted something similar on the due diligence thread except I suggest Neeld needs the Boards support for his full contract,PLUS a renewal even if that is not fully honoured. The next bloke and the players MFC might be able to attract or hold by then could be enough for a tilt at the flag

[Outside fifty 967]

I think Neeld has been given the unenviable task of clearing out the shyte and ridding the joint of the stench that currently lingers. This as belz's said will take seasons. Already there are plenty of doomsayers crapping themselves silly at the thought of yet another rebuild but there is no other alternative. Once he's done the hard yards I hope we have the Kahunas to reward the guy. From an Industry point of view I think it's critical that we stay the course and demonstrate to the football world that we have a spine. Currently we are considered a basket case by most in the Industry because we jump at shadows and wet our selves every time someone criticises us or the going gets tough. The first couple of years will be the undoubtedly be the worst. I hope we don't treat Neeld as a "Spade work" coach, and for once show some intestinal fortitude and loyalty.

[NorwoodDemon 20]

I don't see his first season as a total failure because at least we know we are better than Gold Coast and Greater Western City. I'm extremely happy that we beat both teams don't care if it wasn't a thrashing but we now know we are better than both those teams. Next year as long as we still beat those two teams plus Western Bulldogs, Port Adelaide and Brisbane Lions I'll be happy with how things are going. I'm still young so I have many years of supporting left in me.

However I don't see him as a premiership coach only as a rebuilding coach but I would love to win a premiership under him, maybe 2016?

edit: If he lasts that long, footy has been pretty brutal in recent years with coaches.

Edited September 2, 2012 by NorwoodDemon

[IRW 1,387]

Gee if they beat the Lions next year then the bloke should get a bonus and a renewal ahead of time

[NorwoodDemon 20]

haha, i just think that we should have been around where they are at the moment with the youngsters we got (or could have gotten instead).

[pitmaster 3,578]

Heres the , to me, hole in the logic.. If Neeld and Craig do such a job that whomever folowed was to be successful as the legacy they left was sound. Why would you not let them continue as they were/are obviously on the right track ?

So manyhere expect overnight turnarounds..This build and refinement WILL take seasons. It will take that long because we are coming from such a low base. Is that the fault of Craig and Nelld ? Hardly its the fault of successions of inept FD's and coaches.

That is BS, BB. Successions of inept FDs and coaches? Don't think so.

Balme was a dud, despite one finals campaign, but Daniher was a good coach who stayed too long and who failed to rebuild.

Northey over achieved - a terrific coach who overcame great shortcomings in personnel and resources.

Barassi and Jordan did rebuild the joint.

The lousy coaching came earlier. Ridley and Skilton had fleeting success but the club was overtaken by greater professionalsim elsewhere.

It's far too early to talk about Neeld's tenure - he could be anything. The Messiah or another False Dawn.

[beelzebub 23,383]

That is BS, BB. Successions of inept FDs and coaches? Don't think so.

right back at ya !! Show me just how f'n brilliant they were !!! go on

[pitmaster 3,578]

right back at ya !! Show me just how f'n brilliant they were !!! go on

Northey's record speaks for itself - five successive campaigns deep into finals with a dearth of stars. He took us to the GF in his third season and with Duursma chb in a GF for goodness' sake! Remember they made the 1990 final series with successive victories over Hawthorn, then the reigning double premier - or maybe you forgot.

He built a strong enough team that even lazy Balmey looked like a coach in 1994.

So back at you big boy!

Daniher? From wooden spoon to a prelim to a GF from the woodshed facilities at the Junction.

Yeah, right back at you with interest.

[bush demon 2,062]

Balmey was cruelled by injuries in '95. He had the boys playing rip-roaring football in '94.

[beelzebub 23,383]

bloody hell..we have to go back to Northey.... try recent history..

The efforts of Daniher, Bailey

[dee-luded 2,959]

That is BS, BB. Successions of inept FDs and coaches? Don't think so.

Balme was a dud, despite one finals campaign, but Daniher was a good coach who stayed too long and who failed to rebuild.

Northey over achieved - a terrific coach who overcame great shortcomings in personnel and resources.

Barassi and Jordan did rebuild the joint.

The lousy coaching came earlier. Ridley and Skilton had fleeting success but the club was overtaken by greater professionalsim elsewhere.

It's far too early to talk about Neeld's tenure - he could be anything. The Messiah or another False Dawn.

Belze is right.

And Daniher, the then footy dept', & administrators, were responsible for the growing of a Bad Culture worthy of a specimen dish in the infectious diseases ward. And the demise of a weakening list.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Yeah, right back at you with interest.

In hindsight ( and why not ) Daniher took a lot of shortcuts and made a run at the finals Our 2000 effort at the GF was, well, lamentable.

Some might say he simply rode the coat tails of some of Balmes efforts, but I concede its not clear and will be guided by the readers opinions.

Finishes post that appearance :

2001 -11 _ Daniher

2002 - 6 _ Daniher

2003 - 14_ Daniher

2004 - 5 _ Daniher

2005 - 7 _ Daniher

2006 - 7 _ Daniher

2007 - 14 _ Daniher

2008 - 16 _ Bailey

2009 - 16 _ Bailey

2010 - 12 _ Bailey

2011 - 13 _ Bailey

Danihers preference, now almost universally agreed on was to utilize a certain selct group of favourites , seldon bringing on youth unless no other choice. There seemed no discernable development of youth. In the end it ( th elist ) was so bad he was dismissed and Bailey introduced.

Baileys role was initially to garner us prime draft picks in order to build a new list and then to build upon this with development of these draftees and anyone else brough onto the list. We now realise blind Freddy and Dongo Dave could have deliviered those draft picks and that Bailey wasnt a Developers ....a.........e !!!

Hence another crack at rebuilding with Neeld.

The low, basement like floor from which hes had to start is a direct result on Danihers and Baileys periods at the helm. They werent alone. The respective FD's and recruiting is as much to blame.

Thats my position

[pitmaster 3,578]

bloody hell..we have to go back to Northey.... try recent history..

The efforts of Daniher, Bailey

You're shifting the goal posts. You were whingeing about the failed efforts of successive coaches and football departments. What does successive mean other than going back a few?

I offered you two examples of of those that worked. Now you want to whinge about going back to Northey? Apart from Daniher (briefly successful) and Balme who else is there? Bailey.

Read your own stuff and try to make sense of that!!

[thaipantsman 180]

Can anyone remember Dennis Jones? He had lots of Spade work to do.

Another trivia one. Without consulting your Footy Google. Who was or were the Coache/s in charge when the Club secured Barry Norsworthy and Diamond Jim Tillbrook?

Edited September 2, 2012 by thaipantsman

[thaipantsman 180]

Balmey was cruelled by injuries in '95. He had the boys playing rip-roaring football in '94.

nice one BD. Agree. Play on at all costs. Very snappy and was great to watch.

[thaipantsman 180]

Northey's record speaks for itself - five successive campaigns deep into finals with a dearth of stars. He took us to the GF in his third season and with Duursma chb in a GF for goodness' sake! Remember they made the 1990 final series with successive victories over Hawthorn, then the reigning double premier - or maybe you forgot.

He built a strong enough team that even lazy Balmey looked like a coach in 1994.

So back at you big boy!

Daniher? From wooden spoon to a prelim to a GF from the woodshed facilities at the Junction.

Yeah, right back at you with interest.

Seriously cannot understand the Anti Daniher blogs.. The same bloggers praise Neeld as if he's the best thing since sliced bread? To quote Manuel "I know noooothing"

[thaipantsman 180]

Before anyone jumps on me about talking Mark Neeld down, hear me out.

I support 100% what Mark Neeld is trying to do at the MFC. The culture of that place is rotten, spoilt and reeking of a sense of entitlement. They have produced soft as butter footballers who can play when someone tweaks their nose (Essendon last year) but when things don't go their way, they turn up their toes and die (All of 2012, 186).

However, I realize football is an industry that requires results and which the media glare turns quickly on those who have not produced quantifiable results. The mess at this club might take 5 years or more to clean up. I would suggest if Neeldy hasn't got at least 9 wins by next year, the wolves will be well and truly at his door.

That being said, I do think if he does get moved on, he and Neil Craig will leave a foundation behind that would allow his successor to thrive. It has happened in the past. Most people look at Ron Barassi's time at Melbourne as a bit of a debacle but it has been said that both he and Slug Jordon raised the expectations around the place that lead to the relative success of the late 80's/early 90's. Could Neeldy be that coach for us? (I hope not but it gives me some hope for the future in case the board tires of him).

Ok Col....if you say 99% or perhaps 95-99% I'll go with it..I've actually seen Melbourne play quite a bit this year. Proof of the putting is in the eating and to give him 100% Mate...I wish you could of been my Maths teacher!!

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

Can anyone remember Dennis Jones? He had lots of Spade work to do.

Another trivia one. Without consulting your Footy Google. Who was or were the Coache/s in charge when the Club secured Barry Norsworthy and Diamond Jim Tillbrook?

the great energy Dennis Jones.

Was Ridley coach when those recruits arrived?

[thaipantsman 180]

the great energy Dennis Jones.

Was Ridley coach when those recruits arrived?

hei Why you!!

Possibly Riddles but I haven't researched it. just lobbed into my brain and I chucked it out there. I asked the question because someone gave credit for Neeld for being in charge when Clark arrived so I thought to myself if Clark was one of our best...who would of been the worst recruit. Fair enough! Haven't moved off the couch for 3 hours after working all weekend!!

Can someone help here? I did like Ridley. I was only a young kid but can still recall he had fire in the belly

By the way during the last quarter of the Melbourne game v Lions round one practically the entire Members were bagging out on Clarky!!

[Go the Biff 3,440]

Tilbrook would have been recruited under Beckwith or Ridley. Massive unit with a turning circle to match. All chest & jawbone. Think he cost us $18k, a king's ransom back then. Norsworthy was later. Maybe Skilton. Felt sorry for Norsworthy - remember a photo of him training alone outside the MCG after he got the flick.

[beelzebub 23,383]

You're shifting the goal posts. You were whingeing about the failed efforts of successive coaches and football departments. What does successive mean other than going back a few?

why... Shall lets try and keep it relatively this century shall we. This IS the era we are talking of. Between the Preacher and Bailey we cover 97-2011. Thats 14 years. They are successive. There is no one at the club that was there in the Balme era.

You reach back to god knows when for a morsel to use and then you answer your own question...fmd

The only coaches to have had influence on the current crop ARE Daniher and Bailey. Daniher didnt develop, and Bailey didnt ( add anything you like really !! )

The FD's really nailed all those draft opportunities, my wordy yes.

The mess we're in is directly attributable to these two regimes.

[pitmaster 3,578]

why... Shall lets try and keep it relatively this century shall we. This IS the era we are talking of. Between the Preacher and Bailey we cover 97-2011. Thats 14 years. They are successive. There is no one at the club that was there in the Balme era.

You reach back to god knows when for a morsel to use and then you answer your own question...fmd

The only coaches to have had influence on the current crop ARE Daniher and Bailey. Daniher didnt develop, and Bailey didnt ( add anything you like really !! )

The FD's really nailed all those draft opportunities, my wordy yes.

The mess we're in is directly attributable to these two regimes.

So you're talking about those who had an influence on the current crop? Well you didn't say that, did you? Only three attempts but you got there.

Daniher, like Neeld, set out to overcome what he saw as poor culture. He had as many good years as Northey, but like I said, Danhier stayed too long and failed to develop players. His indulgence of Yze and White was lousy, although he might say a reflection of lack of depth.

So your point is that we have been rotten with what, three years of Danners and four of Bailey? That's it?

Kinda stating the obvious but I'll agree as far as it goes.

[praha 11,240]

I see Neeld as being just another scapegoat for a poor culture. Like Bailey was.

I have faith, but it's hard to imagine with this club.