Lucas Cook, Jack Fitzpatrick etc

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not trying to argue.....Just think the kid has a lot of talent ...That's all......I know he is skinny and I think that the FD is doing the right thing by not putting him in the side until he's ready......

He keeps it well hidden in the VFL. I trust the FD see something in him but he is along way.

I suggest you read the review of the Casey game

Lucas Cook: Kicks 7, Handballs 2, Disposals 9, Marks 2, Tackles 3, Goals 2

Played on a physical opponent in Nick Duigan and whilst he was kept quiet for most of the day, Cooky stuck to the task and kicked two goals

Duigan was flying a month or so back, just had a dip in form so finds himself back in the VFL so Cook's opponent was not some young skinny kid. Kicked two goals so as a forward job done, it probably allowed Leroy Williams a bit more freedom with a lesser opponent

Even a treacle report from the website cant gloss that 9 disposals is still a quite day for a forward.

Coupled with his poor game against Frankston, he really is along way off from AFL.

I would have expected to have seen more.

In fact began his afl career in 2007.....in his second game he kicked 4 goals against us in a 52 point win

At least Hawjkins showed "something" at AFL level. Cook has shown near "nothing" at VFL level.

It will have to be a cracker of pre season for him if he is still at MFC.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Lucas Cook and Jed Lamb(sydney) are the only players in the first 30 selected of the 2010 draft not to have made their debut.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Diablo Deemon

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Lucas Cook and Jed Lamb(sydney) are the only players in the first 30 selected of the 2010 draft not to have made their debut.

Sort of off topic, but it is quite amazing how many top 20 picks Sydney have blown over the last 7 or 8 years. I was looking through it a few months back and the list was littered with blokes who played only a handful of games or that I had never even heard of. They have done amazingly well with their later picks to be so solid over the last 10 years and be in the hunt this year.

[old dee 23,486]

Sort of off topic, but it is quite amazing how many top 20 picks Sydney have blown over the last 7 or 8 years. I was looking through it a few months back and the list was littered with blokes who played only a handful of games or that I had never even heard of. They have done amazingly well with their later picks to be so solid over the last 10 years and be in the hunt this year.

Just shows FD that early draft picks are not everything.

Also shows the folly of our youth only drafting plan between 2007 and 2010

You have to have a mix or you end up lower than where you started from.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Just shows FD that early draft picks are not everything.

Also shows the folly of our youth only drafting plan between 2007 and 2010

You have to have a mix or you end up lower than where you started from.

This is plain rubbish and there are enough examples like Geelong, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Collingwood that prove the benefit of the importance of getting access to the best available talent.

The problems that we have experience have come from poor recruiting in 2000 to 2007 under Cameron. When the great names of Neitz, White and Yze where were the next generation of leaders and senior players. We did not have them.

There has no doubt been folly in some of our selections. And if you are going to attract senior players you need to attract the right ones. We did chase Judd, Ball and one or two others but were unable to secure them.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Just shows FD that early draft picks are not everything.

Also shows the folly of our youth only drafting plan between 2007 and 2010

You have to have a mix or you end up lower than where you started from.

Did you see Harley Bennell play on Sunday?

[old dee 23,486]

This is plain rubbish and there are enough examples like Geelong, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Collingwood that prove the benefit of the importance of getting access to the best available talent.

The problems that we have experience have come from poor recruiting in 2000 to 2007 under Cameron. When the great names of Neitz, White and Yze where were the next generation of leaders and senior players. We did not have them.

There has no doubt been folly in some of our selections. And if you are going to attract senior players you need to attract the right ones. We did chase Judd, Ball and one or two others but were unable to secure them.

Thats your view RR

The sheer fact we had poor senior and middle range players would suggest to me that recruiting all kids was just going to delay any improvement.

And do you always have to start every comment with the likes of "this is plain Rubbish"?

There is no need to be so aggressive.

It does nothing for your argument IMO except perhaps to get most people's back up.

[old dee 23,486]

Did you see Harley Bennell play on Sunday?

All that proves RR is we are poor selectors.

Does not alter the fact we need a mixture of players

[monoccular 17,313]

Yes, and we thought the same at some point with regard to Nick Smith and Luke Molan.

All talls need time, not all talls make it over time.

and not all break a leg in their first preseason, then dislocate a shoulder in their comeback game, thank goodness.

[wisedog 350]

We've never had much luck finding that elusive key position forward...

Luke Molan - pick 9

Aaron Rogers - pick 26

Nick Smith - pick 15

Brad Miller - pick 56

Matthew Bate - pick 14

Lynden Dunn - pick 16

Matthew Newton - pick 43

Jack Watts - pick 1

Jack Fitzpatrick - pick 50

Lucas Cook - pick 12

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

From the sound of the OP what Neeld is looking for is someone to fill the gap in the forward line while Cook develops. Sellar was this years gap filler and someone else will probably get their turn next year. Will make absolute sense and it will be beneficial to us for years IF we can find a gap filler for two years and IF Cook or Fitzpatrick can develop.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Nor am I it's just that I'm not convinced he has the toughness to play at the highest level.

It is by no means a definition of a player, but if you follow the link to post 23 (the video) he can definitely take a contested mark RF, this is only an example but i dont think he is going to be a Cloke type but can from what i have seen and heard take a contested grab quite easily. wont be that Physically imposing player imo, i think Clark does alot of this, and that Cook can be a smart CHF.

edit - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/cook-and-fitzpatrick-educate-me.964352/

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jordie_tackles

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It is by no means a definition of a player, but if you follow the link to post 23 (the video) he can definitely take a contested mark RF, this is only an example but i dont think he is going to be a Cloke type but can from what i have seen and heard take a contested grab quite easily. wont be that Physically imposing player imo, i think Clark does alot of this, and that Cook can be a smart CHF.

Can't find any link or video?

[rhaz 342]

Lucas Cook and Jed Lamb(sydney) are the only players in the first 30 selected of the 2010 draft not to have made their debut.

7 of them play for GC and were almost guaranteed to debut if they didn't get injured.

Of the other 23, Cook, Lycett & Watson are the only tall KPP players, with Watson generally not playing that great for Carlton (and weighing 10kg+ more that Cook), and Lycett doing nothing either.

Don't say Darling because is shorter and already had a mans body before being drafted. Playing in a top 4 team helps too.

KPPs take time but no-one seems to be able to grasp that. I understand we're all running out of patience, but get upset about the players who have been around for a long time, not kids like Cook (who has had his share of injuries too).

Edited August 7, 2012 by rhaz

[rjay 24,577]

I'm sure Geelong thought this about Tom Hawkins......4 years ago

No, they played him for the most part in the senior team, not in the VFL. He learn't his craft with the big boys.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

7 of them play for GC and were almost guaranteed to debut if they didn't get injured.

Of the other 23, Cook, Lycett & Watson are the only tall KPP players, with Watson generally not playing that great for Carlton (and weighing 10kg+ more that Cook), and Lycett doing nothing either.

Don't say Darling because is shorter and already had a mans body before being drafted. Playing in a top 4 team helps too.

KPPs take time but no-one seems to be able to grasp that. I understand we're all running out of patience, but get upset about the players who have been around for a long time, not kids like Cook (who has had his share of injuries too).

That shows the danger of picking key position players early on in the draft unless they are exceptional or you have a heap of picks like GC or GWS did.

I'm over the Cook debate, he hasn't shown anything at Casey to suggest he has got the talent or the physical and mental capacity to make it, he is struggling to get in the goals and best players recently and I just don't see anything there. If he proves me wrong I'll be the first to congratulate him.

Edited August 7, 2012 by RobbieF

[Deano74 156]

They only reason we are talking about Cook is because the senior list which have played 50+ games hasnt lived up to expectation.

Neeld has stated, that he will be looking for him to complete his first full pre-season. Expect him to be in the mix next year. So lets worry about assessing him then, when hes bit wiser, stronger and fitter.

He is the same height as Watts196 cm, but the weight of Jetta 81kg . He needs more muscle to compete against AFL's best defenders.

[Redleg 40,059]

We've never had much luck finding that elusive key position forward...

Luke Molan - pick 9

Aaron Rogers - pick 26

Nick Smith - pick 15

Brad Miller - pick 56

Matthew Bate - pick 14

Lynden Dunn - pick 16

Matthew Newton - pick 43

Jack Watts - pick 1

Jack Fitzpatrick - pick 50

Lucas Cook - pick 12

That is a very depressing post.

[bing181 8,908]

KPPs take time but no-one seems to be able to grasp that.

And even longer when they have fairly serious injuries. Cook has missed most of both pre-seasons with injuries.

[Redleg 40,059]

They only reason we are talking about Cook is because the senior list which have played 50+ games hasnt lived up to expectation.

Neeld has stated, that he will be looking for him to complete his first full pre-season. Expect him to be in the mix next year. So lets worry about assessing him then, when hes bit wiser, stronger and fitter.

He is the same height as Watts196 cm, but the weight of Jetta 81kg . He needs more muscle to compete against AFL's best defenders.

If he ate with me he'd be as fat as a pig.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Can't find any link or video?

bah sorry

link i missed

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/cook-and-fitzpatrick-educate-me.964352/

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jordie_tackles

[The Oracle 130]

Even a treacle report from the website cant gloss that 9 disposals is still a quite day for a forward.

I think this brief par from KC in the How the Demons Fared section of his match report on the Casey game sums it up:-

Lucas Cook (7 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 marks, 3 tackles, 2 goals) - kicked a couple of goals but didn't exert himself on the game nearly enough.

Cook hasn't been particularly convincing in his two seasons and there are others in the Casey forward line including a VFL listed forward who are showing more than him at this stage. If he doesn't lift over at Casey in the next month, then his position on the list could well be in jeopardy.

This is a tough, ruthless business and we need to make some hard decisions to prove that we're relevant as a club.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

bah sorry

link i missed

http://www.bigfooty....cate-me.964352/

Had a look at the mark not too bad came in from the side, showed good judgement but seemed surprised when he got it.

Look he's pick 20 and I want all our players to be good, but you have to be exceptional to make it in AFL and particularly in a key position and I just can't see it; he needs a big dose of confidence, maybe he reads here and we should be pumping him up? Reading that his parents are both tall and lean would indicate that his genetics are more towards being skinny than well muscled but who knows?

[beelzebub 23,197]

I suggest you read the review of the Casey game

Lucas Cook: Kicks 7, Handballs 2, Disposals 9, Marks 2, Tackles 3, Goals 2

Played on a physical opponent in Nick Duigan and whilst he was kept quiet for most of the day, Cooky stuck to the task and kicked two goals

Duigan was flying a month or so back, just had a dip in form so finds himself back in the VFL so Cook's opponent was not some young skinny kid. Kicked two goals so as a forward job done, it probably allowed Leroy Williams a bit more freedom with a lesser opponent

Mate, you will battle uphill against many person's preconceived and inbedded views of players. its a good job the actual development people take longer views to things and stick to their regime. Ive no idea whether Cookie will indeed turn out to be a gem but hes still a relative apprentice in all this. I doubt the FD even look to using him in anything remotely looking like a regular seniors role til 2014. In the mean time he'll learn his craft, develop his body and play the games he's afforded.

Thanks for asking Mahoney the question. Its interesting.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Thats your view RR

The sheer fact we had poor senior and middle range players would suggest to me that recruiting all kids was just going to delay any improvement.

And do you always have to start every comment with the likes of "this is plain Rubbish"?

There is no need to be so aggressive.

It does nothing for your argument IMO except perhaps to get most people's back up.

Lets deal with some facts old dee. It is plain rubbish.

Over the past five years, its well publicised that MFC were in the market for senior players (eg Had prior AFL experience at another Club). We went for Judd, Ball, R Warnock, Prismall (Dodged that) and Hislop (Dodged that too). There may have been others that we sought that renewed contracts with their club. We did, regrettably recruit John Meesen for pick 37(?) in 2007.

There are three important issues that need to be addressed here.

Firstly, MFC have been an on field and off field basket case. We have not been and do not provide an enticing story to a promising young player or seasoned star seeking to cap their careers with another opportunity elsewhere.

Secondly, have a look at those players traded by clubs and work out which of those players would have come to MEL instead of their chosen club. What would MFC offer them above and beyond to have change their choice at the time? And when you look at what has happened in the past 5 years there is good reason why they did not come to MFC.

Thirdly, there is not many on that trade list that I would have taken. Its easy to say plug the gap with senior players. But there is risk inherent that the NQRs from other sides will slot into become the NQRs in your side. Carlton under Pagan did it and ended up with ordinary fringe players. Gold Coast are finding that now with Brennan and Fraser.

You are right to bring up selection. We have overall selected badly in 2000 to 2006. That what has caused our senior player and leadership vacuum post Neitz.

And also in the final Cameron year (2007) and Prendergast period) we may have some questionable selection.

But in no way does it invalidate the policy that rightly taken up given the situation that was upon MFC about 5 years. And if we got a Cotchin, Martin or a Bennell you would not be complaining (Well maybe...).

And if selection of younger players is your beef then how the hell would we do the selection of mature players better??? FWIW, Mitch Clark is the only good trade we have done in the past 10 years. Holland was a bare pass. PJ, Pickett and Meesen were fails.