SLEEPERS

[thaipantsman 180]

We were hardly at full strength either mate, plus playing a lot of players out of position. Apart from Martin, who else of their outs were decent. There big guns were still there.

And I am not kidding myself and trying to say that was even an acceptable performance, I am simply sticking up for Mark Neeld and saying to those who say we have not improved, they are wrong, and that the mess is not his fault and that he needs to be given time to make it right.

Melbourne are worse now t;han the round one team v Brisbane. Also worse than under Bailey last year. No doubt about it. Spin as much as you like . Melbourne has a Learner Coach and Learner Captains. We have to live with it.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,560]

We were hardly at full strength either mate, plus playing a lot of players out of position. Apart from Martin, who else of their outs were decent. There big guns were still there.

And I am not kidding myself and trying to say that was even an acceptable performance, I am simply sticking up for Mark Neeld and saying to those who say we have not improved, they are wrong, and that the mess is not his fault and that he needs to be given time to make it right.

Obviously we are both supporters who are peed off in our own way. However, I will not concede improvement until our players can consistently deliver the ball (hand and foot) to teamates. Look how the top sides do it even under pressure. Our standard is woeful and I have not seen improvement in this area.

[daisycutter 28,704]

It was a 10 goal defeat masquerading as a 4 goal defeat.

Does any club in the league have slower or dumber footballers than the MFC ? They were terrible all over the ground. A few genuine A grade mids will make the world of difference to this club over the next few years.

actually it was a 7 goal loss. they had 13 more scoring shots, so 6.7 = 43 points. 10 goal defeat is a bit much

the rest I agree with. 2/10 for skills 2/10 for footy smarts

i don't get the structures or game plan. The backs were forwards, forwards were backs and there was a sprinkling of mids in strange places

[thaipantsman 180]

Now for those who are saying we haven't improved, here are some stats compared the Round 3 game against Richmond. I am not saying today was great by any stretch, but to say we are still as unorganised as early in the season etc is ridiculous. This includes stats that we were constantly slammed for in the early part of the season e.g. uncontested possessions, inside 50s etc. (Excuse [censored] formatting)

Round 3 Today Difference

Score -59 -23 +36

Scoring Shots -14 -13 +1

Possessions -159 -61 +98

Uncont' Poss' -147 -41 +106

Inside 50s -35 -21 +14

We are still [censored], but we are improving under Neeld slowly. Let the bloke have his way with our list at the end of the next 2 seasons and see where we are. There is no use replacing a coach and going half arsed and giving him the flick after half a season.

Although I am worried about Neeld i agree replacing him now would be a disaster. The Board decided to go down the L Plate coach and captain track and have to see it through. Neeld must be given another year

[_H_ 37]

Having little or no confidence in the club to find there neaerst Auskick clinic, I went to the trouble of providing the details below:

MELBOURNE UNICORNS Coordinator

Kylie da Fonte

Phone: 0403 069 622 Centre Location

Venue: Melbourne High School Oval

Street: Forest Hill

Suburb: South Yarra

Postcode: 3141 Centre Details

Days of operation: Saturday

Time: 9:00am

Duration: 90 mins

Start Date: 21/04/12

Finish Date: 25/08/12

That's as much trouble as I'm going to for the rest of the year... we should be relegated to the Yarra Valley Mountain District Football League.

Edited July 7, 2012 by _H_

[Hardnut 327]

Well, for me, the problem is our list and the lack of AFL quality footballers on it. Whether that is drafting, development, culture, I don't know, but it ain't Neeld's fault. If we are going to sack coaches who have half a bad season, we are going to be in a vicious cycle of sacking coaches every year. We have to select a man we think knows what it takes, and we back him in for the long haul.

So Collingwood's loss last night was due to their lack of quality on their list? I do agree that we have to select someone who knows what they are doing and back them for a few years, but that assumes we can put together a committee who can choose a suitable person.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Melbourne are worse now t;han the round one team v Brisbane. Also worse than under Bailey last year. No doubt about it. Spin as much as you like . Melbourne has a Learner Coach and Learner Captains. We have to live with it.

That is simply not true that we are worse than Round 1. Seriously, watch a tape of the game. The first 5 or 6 games, every time we got the ball, we stopped, propped and went long down the line to where we were outnumbered, literally every time that the opposition just loaded up numbers there and destroyed us. Now, we are spreading a bit better, and taking the game on a bit more, but unfortunately our skills are still absolutely woeful.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,560]

Having little or no confidence in the club to find there neaerst Auskick clinic, I went to the trouble of providing the details below:

MELBOURNE UNICORNS Coordinator

Kylie da Fonte

Phone: 0403 069 622 Centre Location

Venue: Melbourne High School Oval

Street: Forest Hill

Suburb: South Yarra

Postcode: 3141 Centre Details

Days of operation: Saturday

Time: 9:00am

Duration: 90 mins

Start Date: 21/04/12

Finish Date: 25/08/12

That's as much trouble as I'm going to for the rest of the year... we should be relegated to the Yarra Valley Mountain District Football League.

The Society for the protection of the Yarra Valley Mountain District Football League finds your comment offensive and belittling.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Obviously we are both supporters who are peed off in our own way. However, I will not concede improvement until our players can consistently deliver the ball (hand and foot) to teamates. Look how the top sides do it even under pressure. Our standard is woeful and I have not seen improvement in this area.

I agree that we have not improved in this area, but that is effectively what I am trying to say. In that, players not hitting targets from 10 metres away is not Neeld's fault, and we need to let him have his way with our list at the end of the year.

[Ned 156]

I can't believe the mild reaction. We essentially lost by 12-15 goals today. Yes we didn't 'give up', but since when is that not a given?

We are one of the most highly disorganized and poorly skilled teams I have ever seen.

Also the umpires today should be taken out the back and kicked in the balls. Pathetic display!

Totally agree. Richmond weren't that good - as you'd expect from a team with seven players out - yet they pantsed us. Richmond haven't won a game with 7 changes since 1963! We were shocking and should've lost by 10 goals. I felt ashamed watching it. The only thing worse were the [censored] umpires who should be sent to the reserves for a year.

I am starting to hate watching my own team. Just depressing.

[thaipantsman 180]

I had friends with me from interstate and they wanted to leave at half time. They said this is carp and not worth watching.

They are right!! the standard the MFC serves up to its supporters is shocking at this level. It was shocking in round 1 and it still is shocking to watch.

The club has recruited badly, it has performed badly in the development of players and this list shows bugger all signs of serious improvement.

Stuff this glass half full approach!!! this list is poor - very poor!! and whose fault is that??

As for gameday coaching - Neeld and his structures are killing any semblance of natural instinct for this group.

Its simply shyte football to watch. Not sure how much longer the club can survive on this.

People just wont turn up to games. Only so much goodwill left in the tank!!

Dee landing. I share your despair. Tigers slaughtered us today. Melbourne's game style has the players confused and unable to play intuitive football. So often unable to look for the spare player opting to kick long to boundary contests. Many long kicks went out on the full. Melbourne are a Joke. I hope Neeld can learn and adapt a more cohesive game strategy. Rivers played most of the game forward was a mistake. Spencer should of started in the Ruck instead of the Pocket. Bennell should hardly of been in the starting team. So much more..

[pitmaster 3,118]

Skills were dreadful today, esp in the first quarter.

I am not conned by the scoring shot discrepancy however. I lost count of the dodgy frees they had that resulted in shots at goal...that they squandered. THAT'S where some of their scoreboard dominance came from.

Our skills were bad but the umpires were dreadful too.

How about that out of bounds paid against us on the southern wing when the ball was handpassed towards a teammate?

Or the free paid for an attempted spoil in a marking contest against us, when Morris' hit on Tapscott resulted in a play on call?

Or that one paid against Nicholson in a marking contest when he and Nahas(?) went shoulder to shoulder?

The umps were consistently poor against us today, and that's without mentioning the goal taken off Magner since he should've kicked it better in the first place but ladies and gentlemen, it WAS a goal.

I am taking some comfort from the fact that we 'won' the last three quarters, and two quarters clearly. Also Spencer showed a bit. Sylvia gave us something but I have to confess as to being unconvinced by Bail. His use of the ball is not a feature.

Edited July 7, 2012 by pitmaster

[thaipantsman 180]

That is simply not true that we are worse than Round 1. Seriously, watch a tape of the game. The first 5 or 6 games, every time we got the ball, we stopped, propped and went long down the line to where we were outnumbered, literally every time that the opposition just loaded up numbers there and destroyed us. Now, we are spreading a bit better, and taking the game on a bit more, but unfortunately our skills are still absolutely woeful.

Not sure Forest Demon. Perhaps need to take a big deep breath. I felt we were really poor today. Players seem uncertain and hesitant.

[thaipantsman 180]

When did I say we weren't smashed today. We are missing plenty also and playing players out of position (as I said in the post above), and all I am trying to say is that there is improvement and also, that this is not Neeld's fault.

We are playing player "out of position" and this is not Neeld's fault......Hello!

[Maldonboy38 6,034]

This was a thrashing camouflaged as a close game because the Tiges disposal was as poor as ours.

Spencer and Martin were both OK today, and their 2nd efforts in particualr were encouraging.

We cannot defend the middle of the ground against pace.

Ball winning in close is not our problem. Our players and set-up 5-7 metres away from he stoppage are slow, poor decision makers and have sub-standard skills.

Our kicking was embarrassing. Bail, Nicholson, Dunn, about 5 shockers from Watts, Howe, McKenzie, ... the list goes on.

Do we know how to forward spread? I always thought running/sprinting/gut running was a part of our game but very few of the Dees players know how or where to run when we have the ball.

I will keep supporting, and Demonlanding etc.. but the butchering of the ball is so constant week by week that it robs me of passion, and saps me of interest. I am astounded at how often we turn the ball over.

I am hoping some time in the next decade I can read aDees injury list and see 3, 4, or 5 not half the @%$#&*$ team as it has been for about 3 years now.

[Hardnut 327]

There are some 800 players on AFL lists. Every club has 40 or so players on its list. Each list has its strengths and weaknesses, and surprisingly, there is not much between the lists in reality. It is up to the coach to get the best out of the list they have and then gradually improve that list. Time for posters to stop attacking the players, as the buck always stops with the leader, in this case the coach, that's what they are paid for!

[Forest Demon 4,681]

We are playing player "out of position" and this is not Neeld's fault......Hello!

I would of thought it was pretty obvious why this was happening.

[beelzebub 22,376]

And the MFCSS affecianados line up to push the self destruct button and go sit in the 'wallow' corner.

Yes we lost.. yes it was a hiding dressed up as a contest. We probably didnt have half a team of note, they probably lacked a 1/4.

In reality the care factor for this and any game for rest of year.... about 2/3 of 4/5 of SFA !!

Until we actually have a team where the greater majority of players actually give a toss and have at least 2 of the 3 basest of football skills anything we see served up will in all likely be tripe.

People are lining up to give Neeld a serve. whterh he does turn out to tbe our savious or a nother lemon on the list at the moment he has to play those he thinks have relevance to our future and see what they do as well as take note of those that might think they are dead certs for 2013 come hell or high water...well some have a surprise ahead.

Like cars of old they all needed running in....working out the bugs and fixing them. we cant fix ours til seasons end.

Im now focused on that. That will tell us far more about our futre than anything we saw today.

[Macca 16,174]

I agree that we have not improved in this area, but that is effectively what I am trying to say. In that, players not hitting targets from 10 metres away is not Neeld's fault, and we need to let him have his way with our list at the end of the year.

Depending on how much emphasis is placed on skills at practice , you could make an argument that it is the Coach's fault . In the end , the buck stops with the Coach . Like it or lump it .

However , it is quite clear that our list is simply not up to it and we have quite a few on our list who's disposal is not up to scratch . That isn't Neeld's fault but at the moment we've got too many on our list who's disposal should be a darn side better .

That makes me wonder if we practice our kicking and handballing skills enough . And we have very few on our list with a decent 'Opposite' side . Even in your 20's , it's not too late to get better at your opposite side , especially when it comes to handballing .

Structures , systems and processes are all 'Fine and Dandy' but if a team's disposal is as bad as ours , it makes those 'Buzz' words that people just love to sprout , largely irrelevant .

[deeflog 679]

was bail playing while still concussed today?

[thaipantsman 180]

There are some 800 players on AFL lists. Every club has 40 or so players on its list. Each list has its strengths and weaknesses, and surprisingly, there is not much between the lists in reality. It is up to the coach to get the best out of the list they have and then gradually improve that list. Time for posters to stop attacking the players, as the buck always stops with the leader, in this case the coach, that's what they are paid for!

Gidday Hardnut. So what do you think of Neeld as a Coach to this stage?

[Choko 493]

The have we improved question can be answered either way.

Do I believe that we are building a way of playing and a level of accountability and discipline that is going to make us better in the long term? Yes

Do I believe that we were further advanced with our old game plan than we are with our new game plan - meaning we played better last year? Yes

Do I believe we were ever going anywhere with Bailey and his game style? No

Do I believe we will with Neeld? Yes, absolutely.

Is whether that is improvement, I don't know, but I can see more non-negotiables, more physicality and more accountability than before. I just think we are in the early stages of changing our way of playing, thinking, defending and moving the ball.

[thaipantsman 180]

This was a thrashing camouflaged as a close game because the Tiges disposal was as poor as ours.

Spencer and Martin were both OK today, and their 2nd efforts in particualr were encouraging.

We cannot defend the middle of the ground against pace.

Ball winning in close is not our problem. Our players and set-up 5-7 metres away from he stoppage are slow, poor decision makers and have sub-standard skills.

Our kicking was embarrassing. Bail, Nicholson, Dunn, about 5 shockers from Watts, Howe, McKenzie, ... the list goes on.

Do we know how to forward spread? I always thought running/sprinting/gut running was a part of our game but very few of the Dees players know how or where to run when we have the ball.

I will keep supporting, and Demonlanding etc.. but the butchering of the ball is so constant week by week that it robs me of passion, and saps me of interest. I am astounded at how often we turn the ball over.

I am hoping some time in the next decade I can read aDees injury list and see 3, 4, or 5 not half the @%$#&*$ team as it has been for about 3 years now.

Spencer's stats weren't at all staggering but unlike last week he did look the part. Veery slow though. If he starts taking a few grabs could be handy. Prefer Gawn.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Depending on how much emphasis is placed on skills at practice , you could make an argument that it is the Coach's fault . In the end , the buck stops with the Coach . Like it or lump it .

However , it is quite clear that our list is simply not up to it and we have quite a few on our list who's disposal is not up to scratch . That isn't Neeld's fault but at the moment we've got too many on our list who's disposal should be a darn side better .

That makes me wonder if we practice our kicking and handballing skills enough . And we have very few on our list with a decent 'Opposite' side . Even in your 20's , it's not too late to get better at your opposite side , especially when it comes to handballing .

Structures , systems and processes are all 'Fine and Dandy' but if a team's disposal is as bad as ours , it makes those 'Buzz' words that people just love to sprout , largely irrelevant .

I agree with most of what you say, especially the last bit. But do you honestly expect them to line up like Auskickers at training for 3 hours and play kick to kick. I'm sure they practise their skills in various forms of drills at training each week, but at the end of the day at this level, players either have the required skills to hit targets or they don't. Unfortunately, there are far too many on our list who don't. Turn them over.

[thaipantsman 180]

Depending on how much emphasis is placed on skills at practice , you could make an argument that it is the Coach's fault . In the end , the buck stops with the Coach . Like it or lump it .

However , it is quite clear that our list is simply not up to it and we have quite a few on our list who's disposal is not up to scratch . That isn't Neeld's fault but at the moment we've got too many on our list who's disposal should be a darn side better .

That makes me wonder if we practice our kicking and handballing skills enough . And we have very few on our list with a decent 'Opposite' side . Even in your 20's , it's not too late to get better at your opposite side , especially when it comes to handballing .

Structures , systems and processes are all 'Fine and Dandy' but if a team's disposal is as bad as ours , it makes those 'Buzz' words that people just love to sprout , largely irrelevant .

skills? No it's passion. If players have the passion and desire the skills and confidence will happen. It's a rabble ATM. Neeld is a learner and we all knew this from the start. Being a learner might be good just have to keep the faith. IMO Bailey was a far superior coach and not afraid to say it aloud but that's not to say Neeld can't get his act together by this time next year.

Edited July 7, 2012 by thaipantsman