THE WRITING ON THE WALL

[old dee 23,787]

Old Dee, watching from the TV it seemed Brisbane attacked from Half Back, they always seemed to have numbers behind the football and when they broke free there was a lot of space in front of them. Being at the game was this the game style they played leaving Brown, McGrath and Merrett up forward and the rest working from Half back. It just seemed on TV everytime we went into our forward 50m arc it was 3-4 loose Brisbane players to our one forward or is it our players went to the contest getting more around the footy and the Brisbane defenders just picked off our incoming kicks and attacked from there.

Partly true dr

The MFC seemed to bome it in a fair bit as though Clark was still there.

The lions tended to do what you suggest but they had Brown and Merrett who can take strong marks in crowded situations.

The loss of Mcdonald was a big problem as well.

And we did not help the forwards by poor kicking,

Mckenzie, Trengove, Nicholson and about 3 others murdered the forwards with terrible Kicking.

I really like Mckenzie because he observes the first rule of being a good footballer i.e getting the ball

However a lot of his kicking is poor

IMO it turns him from being a good player to an average one

If he could kick like Davey he would win a browlow

But alas I think he will be someway off that

[Devo 104]

What this discussions suggests to me is that there are some who get what Neeld is trying to do and what he's dealing with, and there are some who don't.

Neeld was very honest with the MFC board during the recruitment process for the senior coaching position when he said this year would be painful. He said it would be as painful as it was for Al Clarkson when he took over at Hawthorn in 2005-ish and for Damien Hardwick when he started with Richmond in 2009. He's been spot on with that assessment. Those expecting an easy progression into the finals this year were kidding themselves.

Neeld knows the list isn't as fit and strong as the benchmark teams in the comp yet, and that it will be 2014 before they reach the benchmark. They need several preseasons to make it happen and Dave Misson has a big job to do. I reckon this at least partly explains why MFC players can't spread from the contest as quickly and as frequently as other teams and they repeatedly get beaten down the field, week after week. It might be that their training loads are still very high in order to fast-track the fitness development, which takes away from their abilities on game day. That's just speculation on my part, I wouldn't know for sure.

Neeld is also using every game to check out what his players can do. With half of the list out of contract at the end of the year, he's got a great opportunity to do a thorough cleanout if he wants to. He and his crew must be looking at who is worth keeping and who is not, so why not thrown them around in different positions? Why not play Spencer, Bate, Dunn and other players on the fringe to see if they can do something?

Also, the MFC list is still one of the youngest in the comp and a lot of the younger brigade have been hampered in their development by injuries and an absence of 200+ game players to set the standards for them. Neeld and co are still trying to get them all to TRAIN at AFL standard, let alone PLAY at AFL standard. Don't underestimate how important that is. Neeld is in standard-setting mode for an inexperienced group, not trying to put the finishing touches on a finals contender.

Neeld knows the team was playing a style of game under Bailey that was fundamentally unsuited to modern footy, which emphasises contested ball, pressure across the ground and proficient midfield clearance play. The Bailey style was good enough to beat bad sides but it was routinely torn apart by good sides that were physical, applied solid pressure and ran hard both ways. There are many players on the list who know only the Bailey way, so Neeld and his coaching panel have a massive task in reprogramming them to play a contemporary brand of footy. I suspect he is introducing elements of the game plan bit by bit so that the players digest it. It takes time to make it all stick, it might take until the final year of Neeld's contract until we see the fruits of this labour.

Tossing out Neeld now and replacing him with Roos or Malthouse as some have suggested in this discussion would be a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those tried and trusted coaches would be implementing the same basic things regarding training standards, contested footy and around-the-ground pressure that Neeld is attempting to implement, so why get rid of Neeld? It would set the club back even further.

I believe he is doing what is necessary over the next few years to put the club on the path towards playing consistent finals footy, which is what we expect of him. Mark Neeld and his regime therefore should be judged halfway through 2014, not now.

[beelzebub 23,348]

What this discussions suggests to me is that there are some who get what Neeld is trying to do and what he's dealing with, and there are some who don't.

you had me at this !!!!

[Mydee 288]

Oh and by the way I walked out on one cricket club after the yobs started making gas oven jokes when we played AJAX. So now can we discuss the football

[Arrow 1,257]

I can't believe what I'm hearing, firstly from neeld declaring he is relatively pleased with the game, but more astonished with demonland posters who accept this crap. Never have I witnessed a coach destroy a team as quick as neeld has done to our boys in 2012. Yet, he is pleased. And most of you brain dead followers swallow the bait hook line and sinker. Neeld is a terrible coach who is destroying most of our players. Never have I felt this kind of dissapointment about the club and it's supporters. Most of you sound like you are born losers. Wake up. Neeld is not our man. We are a laughing stock. There is only 1 solution. Get a proven successful premiership coach, that has the brains and spiritual strength to unite the club and win games of footy. We need to get malthouse or Roos before Carlton does.

This is the worst year of footy I have ever seen.

[old dee 23,787]

What this discussions suggests to me is that there are some who get what Neeld is trying to do and what he's dealing with, and there are some who don't.

Neeld was very honest with the MFC board during the recruitment process for the senior coaching position when he said this year would be painful. He said it would be as painful as it was for Al Clarkson when he took over at Hawthorn in 2005-ish and for Damien Hardwick when he started with Richmond in 2009. He's been spot on with that assessment. Those expecting an easy progression into the finals this year were kidding themselves.

Neeld knows the list isn't as fit and strong as the benchmark teams in the comp yet, and that it will be 2014 before they reach the benchmark. They need several preseasons to make it happen and Dave Misson has a big job to do. I reckon this at least partly explains why MFC players can't spread from the contest as quickly and as frequently as other teams and they repeatedly get beaten down the field, week after week. It might be that their training loads are still very high in order to fast-track the fitness development, which takes away from their abilities on game day. That's just speculation on my part, I wouldn't know for sure.

Neeld is also using every game to check out what his players can do. With half of the list out of contract at the end of the year, he's got a great opportunity to do a thorough cleanout if he wants to. He and his crew must be looking at who is worth keeping and who is not, so why not thrown them around in different positions? Why not play Spencer, Bate, Dunn and other players on the fringe to see if they can do something?

Also, the MFC list is still one of the youngest in the comp and a lot of the younger brigade have been hampered in their development by injuries and an absence of 200+ game players to set the standards for them. Neeld and co are still trying to get them all to TRAIN at AFL standard, let alone PLAY at AFL standard. Don't underestimate how important that is. Neeld is in standard-setting mode for an inexperienced group, not trying to put the finishing touches on a finals contender.

Neeld knows the team was playing a style of game under Bailey that was fundamentally unsuited to modern footy, which emphasises contested ball, pressure across the ground and proficient midfield clearance play. The Bailey style was good enough to beat bad sides but it was routinely torn apart by good sides that were physical, applied solid pressure and ran hard both ways. There are many players on the list who know only the Bailey way, so Neeld and his coaching panel have a massive task in reprogramming them to play a contemporary brand of footy. I suspect he is introducing elements of the game plan bit by bit so that the players digest it. It takes time to make it all stick, it might take until the final year of Neeld's contract until we see the fruits of this labour.

Tossing out Neeld now and replacing him with Roos or Malthouse as some have suggested in this discussion would be a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those tried and trusted coaches would be implementing the same basic things regarding training standards, contested footy and around-the-ground pressure that Neeld is attempting to implement, so why get rid of Neeld? It would set the club back even further.

I believe he is doing what is necessary over the next few years to put the club on the path towards playing consistent finals footy, which is what we expect of him. Mark Neeld and his regime therefore should be judged halfway through 2014, not now.

I suspect a few of them are not as good as we thought they were.

We have IMO a number of average players that no amount of training / pre seasons will change.

They simply are not good enough.

[tonatopia 278]

I am sorry if I believe we have a good team. Based on efforts over the last 2 years, I thought we should finish in the top 8 for 2012. We have one of the best backlines in the afl;

Fb: rivers, garland, Nicholson

Hb: grimes, frawley, watts

The best clearance duo in the afl in jamar and moloney.

Hard tough onballers like trengove, jone, jetta and mckenzie.

Awesome young wingman in blease and Howe.

A potent forward line in Clarke, Sylvia, pettered, davey, green and Jurrah.

We were a team that knew how to attack but needed more dicipline and structure when we didn't have the ball. Also we lacked a defensive game plan that could stop 'run-ons'.

When neeld was selected, he immediately said the players were not good enough. At that point, he killed the team. The man lacks emotional and spiritual intelligence, which Bailey had plenty of. What the club has done is gone from one extreme to another. What we did was gamble on an untried assistant when we had experienced proven coaches sitting in the stands.

In 2012, we have only beaten gws and a lethargic essendon (who would have smashed us if they kicked straight).

We have regularly lost contested possession, our players look slower, less explosive, actually it seems that instead of implementing a defensive structure, we have developed a negative mindset. Neeld has turned us into an uncompetive, negative, stupid and boring team that consistently gets smashed. I find it hard to see any positives in his coaching. Actually, I think he should be sacked just like Rohde at the Bulldogs. He is a dud!

[beelzebub 23,348]

MFCSS alert

[old dee 23,787]

I am sorry if I believe we have a good team. Based on efforts over the last 2 years, I thought we should finish in the top 8 for 2012. We have one of the best backlines in the afl;

Fb: rivers, garland, Nicholson

Hb: grimes, frawley, watts

The best clearance duo in the afl in jamar and moloney.

Hard tough onballers like trengove, jone, jetta and mckenzie.

Awesome young wingman in blease and Howe.

A potent forward line in Clarke, Sylvia, pettered, davey, green and Jurrah.

We were a team that knew how to attack but needed more dicipline and structure when we didn't have the ball. Also we lacked a defensive game plan that could stop 'run-ons'.

When neeld was selected, he immediately said the players were not good enough. At that point, he killed the team. The man lacks emotional and spiritual intelligence, which Bailey had plenty of. What the club has done is gone from one extreme to another. What we did was gamble on an untried assistant when we had experienced proven coaches sitting in the stands.

In 2012, we have only beaten gws and a lethargic essendon (who would have smashed us if they kicked straight).

We have regularly lost contested possession, our players look slower, less explosive, actually it seems that instead of implementing a defensive structure, we have developed a negative mindset. Neeld has turned us into an uncompetive, negative, stupid and boring team that consistently gets smashed. I find it hard to see any positives in his coaching. Actually, I think he should be sacked just like Rohde at the Bulldogs. He is a dud!

Sorry I do not agree with your basic premise that we had a good team.

Have a look at the results in 2011.

The games we lost were mainly by big margins.

Where was our good team that day in Geelong

If our backline is so wonderfull how come it gets big scores kicked against it in 2011 and again this year.

Our average losing margin is 9 goals.

It is not Neeld fault.

DB bailey denuded the senior players group e.g Our captain and filled the ranks with kids.

Get used to the fact we do not have a good team.

We have a few good players, a lot of average players and almost no game breakers.

No matter who the coach is we would have the same problem.

Almost no good senior players and a bunch of kids

Edited July 2, 2012 by old dee

[The heart beats true 18,123]

the best backlines in the afl;

Fb: rivers, garland, Nicholson

Hb: grimes, frawley, watts

The best clearance duo in the afl in jamar and moloney.

Hard tough onballers like trengove, jone, jetta and mckenzie.

Awesome young wingman in blease and Howe.

A potent forward line in Clarke, Sylvia, pettered, davey, green and Jurrah.

Of your best Petterd, Davey, Green, Jurrah, Clark, Jones, Jamar and Jetta didn't play on the weekend. Sylvia was badly injured and had an interrupted preseason. So I'm curious what responsibility you want Neeld to take when half your best side is out?

We need to relax and not turn on our own. No solutions in your post just more kicking of a bloke that is trying his best and has had very little go his way. Judge him at the end of next year. We owe it to the club and we owe it to ourselves as supporters to support him and have some faith.

[tonatopia 278]

What does mfcss stand for?

[binman 42,896]

Sorry I do not agree with your basic premise that we had a good team.

Have a look at the results in 2011.

The games we lost were mainly by big margins.

Where was our good team that day in Geelong

If our backline is so wonderfull how come it gets big scores kicked against it in 2011 and again this year.

Our average losing margin is 9 goals.

It is not Neeld fault.

DB bailey denuded the senior players group e.g Our captain and filled the ranks with kids.

Get used to the fact we do not have a good team.

We have a few good players, a lot of average players and almost no game breakers.

No matter who the coach is we would have the same problem.

Almost no good senior players and a bunch of kids

Old dee you've shown up the ignore loophole! I just have to learn to refuse to read silliness - i have the Hun for that (bless Ralphy's heart!) Perhaps you could selectively edit quotes in future (with whole sections deleted).

[old dee 23,787]

Old dee you've shown up the ignore loophole! I just have to learn to refuse to read silliness - i have the Hun for that (bless Ralphy's heart!) Perhaps you could selectively edit quotes in future (with whole sections deleted).

I will try harder in future binman

[rpfc 28,384]

What does mfcss stand for?

MFC Supporter Syndrome.

Covers a wide range of Demon related self-inflicted torment that we put ourselves (and others) through. An example would be the many of us who 'just knew' that Mitch Clark was going to get an obscure and devastating injury just as he was having a dominant year.

It would also apply to fans that think you can judge a coach, and by extension the entire FD apparatus and personnel, inside of 15 rounds of footy.

Edited July 2, 2012 by rpfc

[old dee 23,787]

MFC Supporter Syndrome.

Covers a wide range of Demon related self-inflicted torment that we put ourselves (and others) through. An example would be the many of us who 'just knew' that Mitch Clark was going to get an obscure and devastating injury just as he was having a dominant year.

It would also apply to fans that think you can judge a coach, and by extension the entire FD apparatus and personnel, inside of 15 rounds of footy.

I knew he would

and you carnt?

[Macca 16,961]

Of your best Petterd, Davey, Green, Jurrah, Clark, Jones, Jamar and Jetta didn't play on the weekend. Sylvia was badly injured and had an interrupted preseason. So I'm curious what responsibility you want Neeld to take when half your best side is out?

We need to relax and not turn on our own. No solutions in your post just more kicking of a bloke that is trying his best and has had very little go his way. Judge him at the end of next year. We owe it to the club and we owe it to ourselves as supporters to support him and have some faith.

So does that include our players 'Thbt' ? I see Moloney , Watts , Sylvia , Davey , Morton , Bartram , Bate , Dunn ,Blease , Bennell , Spencer , Green , Jetta , Macdonald , Martin , Petterd , Sellar and Trengove cop a absolute caning over and over again in various threads - on an almost daily basis . Often by the same posters (you'd reckon they'd stop repeating themselves after a while but they don't)

Yet any criticism of the Coach is deemed as treacherous and unacceptable . The hypocrisy is so bad it's hilarious . This line of 'Show some support' is fine if it were extended to the players - but it isn't .

There are 2 rules . And one totally conflicts with the other .

[old dee 23,787]

So does that include our players 'Thbt' ? I see Moloney , Watts , Sylvia , Davey , Morton , Bartram , Bate , Dunn ,Blease , Bennell , Spencer , Green , Jetta , Macdonald , Martin , Petterd , Sellar and Trengove cop a absolute caning over and over again in various threads - on an almost daily basis . Often by the same posters (you'd reckon they'd stop repeating themselves after a while but they don't)

Yet any criticism of the Coach is deemed as treacherous and unacceptable . The hypocrisy is so bad it's hilarious . This line of 'Show some support' is fine if it were extended to the players - but it isn't .

There are 2 rules . And one totally conflicts with the other .

There is one flaw in what you say.

The players have been around from 3 years to 10 years.

The coach has been around 13 games

That earns him a little more time dont you think?

[tonatopia 278]

About 9 more games

[Macca 16,961]

There is one flaw in what you say.

The players have been around from 3 years to 10 years.

The coach has been around 13 games

That earns him a little more time dont you think?

I didn't actually criticize the Coach 'old dee' . I questioned whether a poster does or doesn't have the right to criticize the coach .

What I'm saying is that if any of our players can be virtually crucified by some posters , then is that fair ? Yet the coach (who is responsible for getting the best out of those same players) is somehow immune from criticism . It's a bit one sided for my liking . Length of time at the club doesn't seem to apply for some players either .

I recall Blease copping plenty after playing 5 games ! And what about Spencer ? One game back in the seniors after a knee reco and he's copped plenty . One game .

Edited July 2, 2012 by Macca

[Guest Jackie]

MFC Supporter Syndrome.

It would also apply to fans that think you can judge a coach, and by extension the entire FD apparatus and personnel, inside of 15 rounds of footy.

....and to those that think a six year rebuild still stalled at year zero is somehow not exactly going to plan.

[45HG 1,539]

An example would be the many of us who 'just knew' that Mitch Clark was going to get an obscure and devastating injury just as he was having a dominant year.

So MFCSS is some kind of intricate insight into the future...

[Macca 16,961]

There is one flaw in what you say.

The players have been around from 3 years to 10 years.

The coach has been around 13 games

That earns him a little more time dont you think?

I don't want you to to think I'm directing these comments at you 'old dee' because , on the whole , I find your comments quite thoughtful and worthwhile and never demeaning .

Posters who come out with comments such as 'Sack him' , 'Delist' , 'He's a spud' , 'Get back to Casey' etc etc really annoy people like me . And there's plenty like me who get sick of reading this stuff .

It's a team game and when you lose badly it's the whole teams fault including the Coach and the coaching staff .

[sylvias dukes 9]

So does that include our players 'Thbt' ? I see Moloney , Watts , Sylvia , Davey , Morton , Bartram , Bate , Dunn ,Blease , Bennell , Spencer , Green , Jetta , Macdonald , Martin , Petterd , Sellar and Trengove cop a absolute caning over and over again in various threads - on an almost daily basis . Often by the same posters (you'd reckon they'd stop repeating themselves after a while but they don't)

Yet any criticism of the Coach is deemed as treacherous and unacceptable . The hypocrisy is so bad it's hilarious . This line of 'Show some support' is fine if it were extended to the players - but it isn't .

There are 2 rules . And one totally conflicts with the other .

spot on. We have a coach who has come in and taken the club backwards. I know some reckon Neeld is trying to strip back and reteach fundamentals yada yada but there is no sign of anything constructive other then being overtly negative with slow, wide ball movement. The comparision with Hardwick and Clarkson is not relevant as they didnt take over young sides that had been gradually building over the last couple of years. Of course its not all his fault but lets be honest from what he has shown there is nothing to be excited about. Neeld has to prove himself as a coach FACT. It's too early to tell whether he can coach but it drives me crazy that all these people are following him blindly just like with Dean Bailey, criticising anyone who holds reservations over Neeld. Time wil tell but no one would have predicted such a terrible first half of the year

p.s his media work is cringeworthy

[dee-luded 2,959]

spot on. We have a coach who has come in and taken the club backwards. I know some reckon Neeld is trying to strip back and reteach fundamentals yada yada but there is no sign of anything constructive other then being overtly negative with slow, wide ball movement. The comparision with Hardwick and Clarkson is not relevant as they didnt take over young sides that had been gradually building over the last couple of years. Of course its not all his fault but lets be honest from what he has shown there is nothing to be excited about. Neeld has to prove himself as a coach FACT. It's too early to tell whether he can coach but it drives me crazy that all these people are following him blindly just like with Dean Bailey, criticising anyone who holds reservations over Neeld. Time wil tell but no one would have predicted such a terrible first half of the year

p.s his media work is cringeworthy

Well, we're defending better & we're starting to hunt the hardball. We're winning many more inside ball clearances, etc.

That is a huge start, but not necessarily the sort that'l showup on the ladder yet, as we lack run & spread to hurt the opposition.

I'm a lot happier about these things that will put us in good sted for our future, to build on..

[jackaub 1,402]

It's a good point you raise and something that I noticed yesterday - our forward line always seems quite congested. That may be because there are players playing there who are unfamiliar with the angles/spaces etc. but, to me, it always seems chockers. As you say, a 2 metre tall, athletic behemoth could deal with it - but we'll struggle to kick goals going forward if we keep the setup of falls supported by slow grunts.

Our forward line has been like that for years -all our players go to the contest

its just schoolboy football no plan and no disciplne It was laughable how many times the ball was bombed in either it was put out of bounds or one or their defenders won it and ran off on his own while ours were either picking themselves up or not bothering to chase thats why we lost the game