Jeremy Cameron

[olisik 4,060]

All these people drooling over Cameron are probably the same people who drooled over Butcher last year, and look how his season is going.

Cameron had a few good games coz he was under-rated so probably didnt even have the best defender on him half the time with izzy taking the better defender.

He is also yet to prove any versatility like Watts has, it would be interesting to see if Cameron could be thrown at half back and rack up 25+ possessions and several goal assists.

Also note that our team already has plenty of forwards who can kick a goal and a mid-field which was struggling against GWS.

We got Rivers/Garland/Clark/Howe/Jurrah/Watts/Martin who all can go forward and our conversion rate this year has been fine.

It would be foolish to invest so much into a part of our team which is already doing fine, we need to invest in our mid-field.

[Hannibal 5,814]

It's just different for him, especially when he's spent virtually all of his life playing forward, or midfield.

You say that there's not too many players that I don't rate ahead of Watts. Why lie ? When have I said that ?

As for Cameron ? I just listened to Cam Mooney say that he should win the RS this year and that he's going to be a star. That's just one topical example of someone that doesn't view footy with bias. His comments were made well after my post. Cameron will win the RS star and it will be well deserved. He'll be the best player in the game in 6/7 years.

Is Watts the only former pick one to not even get nominated for a RS ?

[H_T 3,042]

Olisik, I have no doubt if you threw Cameron down back he would collect 25 or so p's. I've seen enough of him to suggest he will be 'something else.'

He is a versatile type IMO, but will be better suited as a forward that can lead up the ground. He's smart and is looks good in tight with good awareness. A star of the future IMO, reminds me a bit of M.Lloyd.

I'm all for the priorities to be on our midfield and pace improvement at years end. But you should be always on the lookout for a star.

[Geddy Lee 582]

All these people drooling over Cameron are probably the same people who drooled over Butcher last year, and look how his season is going.

Cameron had a few good games coz he was under-rated so probably didnt even have the best defender on him half the time with izzy taking the better defender.

He is also yet to prove any versatility like Watts has, it would be interesting to see if Cameron could be thrown at half back and rack up 25+ possessions and several goal assists.

Also note that our team already has plenty of forwards who can kick a goal and a mid-field which was struggling against GWS.

We got Rivers/Garland/Clark/Howe/Jurrah/Watts/Martin who all can go forward and our conversion rate this year has been fine.

It would be foolish to invest so much into a part of our team which is already doing fine, we need to invest in our mid-field.

Clark and Howe are forwards. The rest are hard to rely on, for a multitude of reasons.

[Hells Gates 505]

All these people drooling over Cameron are probably the same people who drooled over Butcher last year, and look how his season is going.

Cameron had a few good games coz he was under-rated so probably didnt even have the best defender on him half the time with izzy taking the better defender.

He is also yet to prove any versatility like Watts has, it would be interesting to see if Cameron could be thrown at half back and rack up 25+ possessions and several goal assists.

Also note that our team already has plenty of forwards who can kick a goal and a mid-field which was struggling against GWS.

We got Rivers/Garland/Clark/Howe/Jurrah/Watts/Martin who all can go forward and our conversion rate this year has been fine.

It would be foolish to invest so much into a part of our team which is already doing fine, we need to invest in our mid-field.

Butcher has only played 6 games all year and has had a bad run with injury.

[hardtack 10,441]

He is also yet to prove any versatility like Watts has, it would be interesting to see if Cameron could be thrown at half back and rack up 25+ possessions and several goal assists.

Sorry, but I really don't understand why you have even raised this point.

Watts was moved back because he was not getting enough of the ball up forward and was not scoring the goals to justify a key position in the forward line - I suspect it is a move more intended to teach him how to become a more effective forward by playing on the best forwards in the game.

Despite my earlier uninformed posts on Cameron, I now realise that Cameron IS scoring goals and IS winning contests, so there is obviously no reason to move him anywhere.

[olisik 4,060]

Olisik, I have no doubt if you threw Cameron down back he would collect 25 or so p's. I've seen enough of him to suggest he will be 'something else.'

He is a versatile type IMO, but will be better suited as a forward that can lead up the ground. He's smart and is looks good in tight with good awareness. A star of the future IMO, reminds me a bit of M.Lloyd.

I'm all for the priorities to be on our midfield and pace improvement at years end. But you should be always on the lookout for a star.

Why get a star when one is not needed?

I would much prefer an all rounded balanced good performing team over a star and a bunch of mediocre players.

[olisik 4,060]

and it would take more then just Watts to get Cameron so I dont know why people are comparing him to Watts (Including myself)

It would take a Watts and a Viney to get him. or perhaps a Trengove and a Frawley.

I highly doubt any of you arguing in favor of him would be willing to give up that. Plus the coin of course

[The Chazz 4,077]

It's just different for him, especially when he's spent virtually all of his life playing forward, or midfield.

You say that there's not too many players that I don't rate ahead of Watts. Why lie ? When have I said that ?

As for Cameron ? I just listened to Cam Mooney say that he should win the RS this year and that he's going to be a star. That's just one topical example of someone that doesn't view footy with bias. His comments were made well after my post. Cameron will win the RS star and it will be well deserved. He'll be the best player in the game in 6/7 years.

Is Watts the only former pick one to not even get nominated for a RS ?

You base being a star on how they perform within their first season, on their ability to impact a game as a key forward, and if they win a Rising Star nomionation, or the actual award itself. Then not only that, you try and back it up with something that a past player has said. Don't get me wrong, Mooney has been there and done it winning multiple premierships. David King has won multiple premierships too, that doesn't mean that what he said about Neeld is correct.

Don't get me wrong, Cameron may turn out to be a star. He may turn out to be a flash in the pan, and there is probably a greater chance than anything that he will end up somewhere in between the two. At this stage, his form guide is looking very positive for his future stocks, so I don't think you're sticking your neck out by jumping on the bandwagon. But if you want to use the Rising Star winner as your benchmark, while their are some handy players on that list, including brownlows, multiple brownlows and premiership and Norm Smith winners, there are also just as many players that are far from the star category, who obviously at some stage (in order to get a nomination in the first place) looked like the next best thing. We have a past winner on our list that I wouldn't call a star. I would argue that 8 of the first 16 winners are stars, the other 8 are not. It's too early to judge Rich, although I don't think he'll be a star midfielder, Hannebery and Heppell would have star qualities. Considering Ablett and Swan weren't nominated, and players like Pendlebury and Bartel were but didn't win the award, I don't use the RS as any indication of star-potential. It's like the Golden Slipper, worlds richest 2 year old race, one of the best races on the Australian calendar, how many have gone on and made it as champion racehorses?

My issue is how you, or anyone else, are going the early crow about how Cameron will end up so much better than Watts, and how you claim that you are "one of the very few that can dispassionately evaluate footballers" - I'm stuffed if I know how you think you are so much better than the majority with that, considering you have no idea what everyone thinks of the 750-odd players on an AFL list.

In response to your accusation of me lying, I just figured that with the amount of flaws in Watts' game, that it wouldn't be hard for most players to be better than him. I didn't lie, I just jumped to the wrong conclusion. I apologise. Would be interested to know, however, what your response is to Watts' comments about playing in the back line. I'm sure you've finished sorting your sock drawer, can't be many other mundane jobs that would give you more satisfaction than responding to Jack's comments.

[olisik 4,060]

You base being a star on how they perform within their first season, on their ability to impact a game as a key forward, and if they win a Rising Star nomionation, or the actual award itself. Then not only that, you try and back it up with something that a past player has said. Don't get me wrong, Mooney has been there and done it winning multiple premierships. David King has won multiple premierships too, that doesn't mean that what he said about Neeld is correct.

Don't get me wrong, Cameron may turn out to be a star. He may turn out to be a flash in the pan, and there is probably a greater chance than anything that he will end up somewhere in between the two. At this stage, his form guide is looking very positive for his future stocks, so I don't think you're sticking your neck out by jumping on the bandwagon. But if you want to use the Rising Star winner as your benchmark, while their are some handy players on that list, including brownlows, multiple brownlows and premiership and Norm Smith winners, there are also just as many players that are far from the star category, who obviously at some stage (in order to get a nomination in the first place) looked like the next best thing. We have a past winner on our list that I wouldn't call a star. I would argue that 8 of the first 16 winners are stars, the other 8 are not. It's too early to judge Rich, although I don't think he'll be a star midfielder, Hannebery and Heppell would have star qualities. Considering Ablett and Swan weren't nominated, and players like Pendlebury and Bartel were but didn't win the award, I don't use the RS as any indication of star-potential. It's like the Golden Slipper, worlds richest 2 year old race, one of the best races on the Australian calendar, how many have gone on and made it as champion racehorses?

My issue is how you, or anyone else, are going the early crow about how Cameron will end up so much better than Watts, and how you claim that you are "one of the very few that can dispassionately evaluate footballers" - I'm stuffed if I know how you think you are so much better than the majority with that, considering you have no idea what everyone thinks of the 750-odd players on an AFL list.

In response to your accusation of me lying, I just figured that with the amount of flaws in Watts' game, that it wouldn't be hard for most players to be better than him. I didn't lie, I just jumped to the wrong conclusion. I apologise. Would be interested to know, however, what your response is to Watts' comments about playing in the back line. I'm sure you've finished sorting your sock drawer, can't be many other mundane jobs that would give you more satisfaction than responding to Jack's comments.

Not just Watts but Watts + another quality player or first round draft pick which is what would be needed to get it across the line.

[old dee 23,565]

The kid is a goer it is as simple as that.

You will not get him away from GWS.

Conduct the search somewhere else.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Not just Watts but Watts + another quality player or first round draft pick which is what would be needed to get it across the line.

Oli, I think their point is that if they (especially BH) could trade Watts for Cameron, then they would do that. They're not saying that would be Cameron's asking price.

On the other hand, if we were required to offer a Trengove & Frawley-type package, I would want to spend it on someone better than Cameron. Cameron's played a handful of good games and showed a fair bit of upside, but there's still risk invovled. Thankfully, the people that matter (our FD/List Managers) wouldn't be so silly.

[Adam The God 29,690]

The kid is a goer it is as simple as that.

You will not get him away from GWS.

Conduct the search somewhere else.

If the club has that attitude we'll never get another star again.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You base being a star on how they perform within their first season

No, on what I see now, my experience on how difficult it is to do the things he can easily do at such a young age, and what my brain tells me he'll be able to do with an AFL body. I see a cross between Peter Hudson and Royce Hart with this guy. The last time I was as excited about a key prospect was Carey. Don't mention Buddy, because he's a different kettle of fish. Buddy plays like a mid and is a poor contested mark.

And if I'm wrong don't worry the world will let me know.

And a couple of things. I'm not on any bandwagon and the RS isn't my yardstick, just a reference point for posters such as yourself.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Why get a star when one is not needed?

If only I could do the facepalm thing.

[olisik 4,060]

If only I could do the facepalm thing.

Your facepalming because you think a potential star would fit better in our team which has a good scoring rate from inside 50s rather then an inside mid like trengove + a keyback like Frawley? or a good half-back rebounding defender?

Im facepalming at your facepalm.

[olisik 4,060]

BH, what would u offer GWS for Cameron?

and please don't say 'Bate, Dunn, Bennell and a few 3rd round draft picks and upgrades'

[H_T 3,042]

If only I could do the facepalm thing.

X 2

[olisik 4,060]

What is the point of this thread? To praise an opposition player with no realistic suggestions on what feasibly would get him to the club?

[Dr. Mubutu 784]

Would clearly have to pay overs.

Will be a very good player.

At GWS.

Not a chance in hell of them giving him up easily. About the only way I can see anyone else getting him in their team is to wait 7 years and pick him up as an FA.

Same goes for most GWS players.

[daisycutter 29,482]

No, on what I see now, my experience on how difficult it is to do the things he can easily do at such a young age, and what my brain tells me he'll be able to do with an AFL body. I see a cross between Peter Hudson and Royce Hart with this guy. The last time I was as excited about a key prospect was Carey. Don't mention Buddy, because he's a different kettle of fish. Buddy plays like a mid and is a poor contested mark.

I agree he looks the goods but you lost me with Hart/Hudson comparison

[Biffen 12,939]

How many of our best players can we trade for this kid who played well for 10 minutes? Sounds great .Genius at work on Demonland again.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I agree he looks the goods but you lost me with Hart/Hudson comparison

You haven't seen him float from the side Royce Hart like ? You haven't seen the ball drop into his lap third deep Peter Hudson like ? When I say he reminds me of Hudson, it's the X factor I already see, not the body shape, style, etc.

But it matters not a jot to me who agrees, or disagrees. Please yourself.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Hannibal 5,814]

BH, what would u offer GWS for Cameron?

and please don't say 'Bate, Dunn, Bennell and a few 3rd round draft picks and upgrades'

I wouldn't offer anything because we're not a hope in hades' of getting him. I'm not advocating recruiting him, just my love. I leave dolts like you to come up with the silly trade offers.

Lucas Cook was an AA CHF in the u18's team. Cook was a first round draft pick (no. 12). Jeremy Cameron is a year younger than Cook. Cook doesn't belong in the same stratosphere as Cameron. Cameron will be a star and Cook may be a decent player.

[olisik 4,060]

I wouldn't offer anything because we're not a hope in hades' of getting him. I'm not advocating recruiting him, just my love. I leave dolts like you to come up with the silly trade offers.

Lucas Cook was an AA CHF in the u18's team. Cook was a first round draft pick (no. 12). Jeremy Cameron is a year younger than Cook. Cook doesn't belong in the same stratosphere as Cameron. Cameron will be a star and Cook may be a decent player.

So you have said, whats your point or saying this time and time again?