Who are our leaders

[dees64 104]

When times are tough for a footy club you call on your leaders to take control during the game & convey the message of the coach. They are should be looked up by the younger players & to follow their lead, currently it appears that we are relying on two 21yo to drive this???

Below are the captains gone before all experienced players who done a long tough apprenticeship, ones who would go into battle with.

Neeld what were you thinking??? ( this is not a neeld bashing just an opinion)

You have Jones who smashes himself & leaves everything on the park each week, a tough nut who want take a backward step!

1973–1976 Stan Alves 1977–1978 Greg Wells 1979–1980 Carl Ditterich 1981–1987 Robert Flower 1988–1990 Greg Healy 1991–1997 Garry Lyon 1998–1999 Todd Viney 2000–2008 David Neitz 2009–2010 James McDonald 2011– Brad

Edited May 13, 2012 by dees64

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

Neeld Craig & Misson are the leaders right now. That is how bad our List management has been.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Mitch Clark

[dees64 104]

Mitch Clark

Mitch Clark

Yeah, but he is not the Captain

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

Mitch Clark

Fair call. But it must be hard as a forward to sort out our clapped out midfield

[Pates 9,624]

Leadership GROUP, of which Jones, Clark, Frawley, and Bartram (who have been leading well IMO) are apart of.

Grimes and Trenners are struggling, the latter so much so I actually think he might have an injury. But I don't actually think Neeled expected them light the world on fire, this year is about them learning to cope with the role.

Clark has been sensational, if the players need leadership they only need to look in his direction.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

If we could change captaincy mid-season, I'd give it to Jones or back to Green. Or perhaps to Moloney or Davey. Seriously why can't we give it to a player who doesn't just play for the Melbourne Football Club but IS the Melbourne Football Club. Grimes and Trengove are good young players but by no means have hit any heights in their careers and should concentrate on their form

[Waltham33 475]

Agree with Mitch Clark call. I have seen leadership as a problem for a long while at Melbourne. As great as Garry Lyon and avid Neitz were, there was always limited leadership behind them IMHO. BTW you do not have to be in the leadership group to be a leader, I would expect all 22 selected to be capable of showing some level of leadership.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,419]

Agree with Mitch Clark call. I have seen leadership as a problem for a long while at Melbourne. As great as Garry Lyon and avid Neitz were, there was always limited leadership behind them IMHO. BTW you do not have to be in the leadership group to be a leader, I would expect all 22 selected to be capable of showing some level of leadership.

fully agree with the comment on leadership and I have to say that Mitch has been great at all levels. I hate to think what he thinks of the rest of the team.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,604]

Heard Mark Jamar interviewed on SEN today. He spoke of his wish to remain at the Club and that his management is currently talking with the Club to renew his contract. He also said that it has always been his wish to stay a Melbourne footballer. It would be great fillip for the Club if his contract was renewed quickly. IMO Mark has come so far but he needs to exert more of his leadership qualities on the field.

[rpfc 28,045]

When times are tough for a footy club you call on your leaders to take control during the game & convey the message of the coach. They are should be looked up by the younger players & to follow their lead, currently it appears that we are relying on two 21yo to drive this???

Below are the captains gone before all experienced players who done a long tough apprenticeship, ones who would go into battle with.

Neeld what were you thinking??? ( this is not a neeld bashing just an opinion)

You have Jones who smashes himself & leaves everything on the park each week, a tough nut who want take a backward step!

I can see where you are coming from but the fact remains that we didn't have the calibre of leader that are referring to.

Jones is a consistently good player but who knows how he would have reacted to the leadership.

Jones was at times, playing for his career in 2011, whether fairly or not, and it would have raised the same amount of eyebrows to give him the captaincy as the decision to give it to Grimes and Trengove.

They are both impressive players and leaders and need to be given time to settle into the role.

One thing I know for sure - the move to Clark, Jones, Garland, Frawley, and the two boys was the right move for a group screaming out for proper role models.

[jimcor 212]

Heard Mark Jamar interviewed on SEN today. He spoke of his wish to remain at the Club and that his management is currently talking with the Club to renew his contract. He also said that it has always been his wish to stay a Melbourne footballer. It would be great fillip for the Club if his contract was renewed quickly. IMO Mark has come so far but he needs to exert more of his leadership qualities on the field.

Interesting discussion and I very much agree with your comment re Jamar's lack of leadership on the field. It strikes me (as it does others) that we lack vocal on-field leadership. There seem to those who currently lead by example and vocally (only Bartram really), those that lead by example (Jones, Jamar and Clark) and those who for one reason or another seem to be struggling to do either.

As the oldest, most-experienced and most highly-regarded, I think that Jamar should be the one steppimg up and driving the effort on- field while Grimes and Trengove are struggling. I don't think I've seen it so far this season.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,419]

Jamar seemed quite well spoken and very forceful in the way he defended Jack Watts. I was impressed. he came across as a person who didnt afford BS. I wish id realised he was like that before the interview.

[jimcor 212]

Jamar seemed quite well spoken and very forceful in the way he defended Jack Watts. I was impressed. he came across as a person who didnt afford BS. I wish id realised he was like that before the interview.

I didn't catch the interview but that's great to hear (as is the comment about wanting to stay with the Dees). I am sure that if he demanded greater efforts from those around home, they would listen. I'm not at all surprised that he's a straight-shooter but leadership is also about being able to extract maximum effort and effect from those around you.

I don't think we've seen that as yet.

[felixdacat 459]

Round 8 in their first year and you want to dump them. You see the boys play 2 hours a week and you are going to base leadership qualities on that 2 hours. What about the rest of the time the boys are in recovery, training and reviewing the game week in week out. There are around 286 hours of unknown where the captains are leading we just don't see it. I reckon that Neeld and the other coaches see the attitude and preparation the 2 boys put in on the track as elite and they lead by example with their professionalism and poise. Anyone can lead for 2 hours a week its the other 286 hours that you need to be prepared to do as well.

A point of interest did you know that the number one thing people look for in leaders is Honesty.

[jimcor 212]

Round 8 in their first year and you want to dump them. You see the boys play 2 hours a week and you are going to base leadership qualities on that 2 hours. What about the rest of the time the boys are in recovery, training and reviewing the game week in week out. There are around 286 hours of unknown where the captains are leading we just don't see it. I reckon that Neeld and the other coaches see the attitude and preparation the 2 boys put in on the track as elite and they lead by example with their professionalism and poise. Anyone can lead for 2 hours a week its the other 286 hours that you need to be prepared to do as well.

A point of interest did you know that the number one thing people look for in leaders is Honesty.

If this is a response to my post, it's wrong. No suggestion of dumping, just a comment that,as a member of the leadership group, Jamar needs to display his leadership by more than just performing well in the ruck - that's his normal job. If the younger, less-experienced leaders are struggling, Jamar needs to be more assertive and demanding. Funnily enough, during the pre-season, Trengove was the most vocal player at the training sessions I got to so it's certainly not an issue of shyness or lack of confidence.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Neeld Craig & Misson are the leaders right now. That is how bad our List management has been.

Drunk at the Wheel since the early to mid 1990's. Our Admirals have tripped they're way to the life boats.

They let the ship slide OFF Course. It's hurting us all Now. At least 15 Years of bad culture starting from the top.

The problem is there are so many life support systems & navigation aids in place out there in the wider AFL Ocean, that one can sail round in perpetual circles without getting into too much strife.

It's when the ship gets closer to land, that the Issues show themselves as major problems.

We entrusted the guiding of the ship to poor choices. They should have ensured we had a strong hungry culture, not an overfed, soft & comfortable one.

[nutbean 8,838]

Round 8 in their first year and you want to dump them. You see the boys play 2 hours a week and you are going to base leadership qualities on that 2 hours. What about the rest of the time the boys are in recovery, training and reviewing the game week in week out. There are around 286 hours of unknown where the captains are leading we just don't see it. I reckon that Neeld and the other coaches see the attitude and preparation the 2 boys put in on the track as elite and they lead by example with their professionalism and poise. Anyone can lead for 2 hours a week its the other 286 hours that you need to be prepared to do as well.

A point of interest did you know that the number one thing people look for in leaders is Honesty.

I agree with this 100% - I will even go one further and say we dont even have complete insight to the 2 hours on the field either. We see the very obvious acts of leadership - certain acts on the field. But we are not aware of subtle chat and directions that happen on the field - acts of leadership that escape our attention.

I have talked to two Collingwood players and I dont see it but they both said Maxwell is sensational by his talk and direction which I have not noticed. They said his acts of courage are obvious but it is the stuff that is not obvious on the field to supporters that they players get which make him a great leader

[jimcor 212]

I agree with this 100% - I will even go one further and say we dont even have complete insight to the 2 hours on the field either. We see the very obvious acts of leadership - certain acts on the field. But we are not aware of subtle chat and directions that happen on the field - acts of leadership that escape our attention.

I have talked to two Collingwood players and I dont see it but they both said Maxwell is sensational by his talk and direction which I have not noticed. They said his acts of courage are obvious but it is the stuff that is not obvious on the field to supporters that they players get which make him a great leader

You're probably right but even with the limited view that you get via the TV, you can still see Maxwell directing traffic and telling people what to do even though he is only on screen a minority of the time 'cos he's playing back. Jamar is in view a lot but I can't recall seeing much in the way of directions to his team mates when he's not directly involved. It's those sorts of things which will make him a better leader, I think. But then again, it's only my opinion!

[Footynut 302]

After tonight i think we should follow the GWS model.

1. Recruit retiring great players to bring experience and leadership to the club over the next 1-2 years. Low cost and allows us to replace trading out some senior players IF we can get anything at all for them.

2. Throw everything at Cloke and or Dangerfield and or Boak.

3. Pick the best available players with our remaining picks in the draft. Dont ever fall for drafting for needs ever again. Therefore Pick Lachie Whitfield and a Stringer or other.

This club needs a GWS hybrid Swans rebuild on a few levels.

Sorry to say but we need to find a way of making our team competitve next year as fast as possible.

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

Jones and Clark are the only ones any where near on op of their own game enough to lead others.

Maybe Jamar.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Jamar?

1 year wonder.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,419]

Ive been thinking that and hoping that I am wrong.

[Footynut 302]

Right now I'd see we should be happy for Moloney and Jamar to go, trade Sylvia you would think we could land something good for him. See if some club is dumb enough to give us anything for Davey. Move on Bail, Bate, Dunn, potentially trade out Morton and Bennell and possibly Fitzpatrick.

Bring in 2-3 mature good players who are retiring and trade up for Boak and or Dangerfield with the above players and picks. get Cloke w free agency.

Finish last and take Whitfield and Viney gives us 2 absolute gun midfielders. Plus best available for the rest.

We are better off punting on a strong draft and pruning the list hard this year. I bet we can find kids with more oomph and care in the draft than what we already have.

[timD 994]

Right now I'd see we should be happy for Moloney and Jamar to go, trade Sylvia you would think we could land something good for him. See if some club is dumb enough to give us anything for Davey. Move on Bail, Bate, Dunn, potentially trade out Morton and Bennell and possibly Fitzpatrick.

Bring in 2-3 mature good players who are retiring and trade up for Boak and or Dangerfield with the above players and picks. get Cloke w free agency.

Finish last and take Whitfield and Viney gives us 2 absolute gun midfielders. Plus best available for the rest.

We are better off punting on a strong draft and pruning the list hard this year. I bet we can find kids with more oomph and care in the draft than what we already have.

We don't have to do quite that much. Everything revolves around the midfield. All our eggs need to be in that basket. So, trade out Moloney, Sylvia and Jamar. Use any NQRs if wanted. Target one established mid with a bit of age and character. Get the rest of the draft aimed at mids. All we need is one gun. They are hard to find, but I'm convinced that is all we need. See if GCS would part with one of their youngsters for player +.