Club Culture - How Do You Change It?

[Guest Dr Who]

Your 'culture' is driven by your senior players.

Ours are not ruthless like Hawthorn's, confident like Collingwood's, or uber-professional and demanding like Geelong's.

Neeld has got to shape the next rung of leaders and he has started that long journey with the LG as it stands now.

Go and get Sewell and Black and get them to mentor our kids and set them on the right path.

There is a way out of the darkness, but you have to pick a point and go.

Your "culture" is not just one component of your club - its your complete club.

Players come & go, coaches come & go, administrators come and go, board members come & go - but we have one solid component (ironically for us many sound like they are heading for the exit too). You build your culture from the ground up - what happens on the ground is only a reflection of what is happening off the ground.

Any club is only as good as it members.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dr Who

[dee-luded 2,959]

But who do you think sets the tone? It's the seniors- they set it through their elite compliance, elite work ethic, elite preperation (thanks mcqueen) and the rest of the team follows their lead because at the end of the day it's the players that battle together every weekend. They are the comrades in the trenches- coaches and support staff whilst integral to a degreee do not have the same influence on the players as their peers do.

Culture isn't in the wall paper or in the training facilities, it's in the attitude of the playing group and the seniors are the trend setters, and they instill these traits on the youngsters and so continues the culture circle.

Look at our seniors if you need an example. We have sooks who aren't prepared to put in on the field, like to have a drink on the weekend and crash cars and do runners. Great role models to set a great culture.

The rot always starts at the head, and the playing group is the fish!

NO, Sloonie, the only way to stop this rot is to first learn what it is....

If you can't see it, hear it or smell it you can't Kill It.. & it doesn't bleed, bleeds only us.

The first step is to learn what exactly it is, & how we all contribute to it.

This is the painful part for most, admitting their a part of the problem itself, & many peoples beliefs of Status & Exclusion, are a belief those people want to desperately hang onto. (I'm better than you)

The Pro boxer lost his hunger once he had the status, material comforts & success he always craved. All those things contributed to his 'Desire to be the Best'.

When they're satisfied, So is the Boxers Hunger quelled... He better retire before a hungrier opponent hurts him bad. Because he has NO Fire left burning Inside.

Ours IMO, are too easily satisfied sitting with the top end of town, "New Car, Caviar, Four Star Daydream, Think Ill buy me a Football Team."

................pto

[dee-luded 2,959]

NO, Sloonie, the only way to stop this rot is to first learn what it is....

If you can't see it, hear it or smell it you can't Kill It.. & it doesn't bleed, bleeds only us.

The first step is to learn what exactly it is, & how we all contribute to it.

This is the painful part for most, admitting their a part of the problem itself, & many peoples beliefs of Status & Exclusion, are a belief those people want to desperately hang onto. (I'm better than you)

The Pro boxer lost his hunger once he had the status, material comforts & success he always craved. All those things contributed to his 'Desire to be the Best'.

When they're satisfied, So is the Boxers Hunger quelled... He better retire before a hungrier opponent hurts him bad. Because he has NO Fire left burning Inside.

Ours IMO, are too easily satisfied sitting with the top end of town, "New Car, Caviar, Four Star Daydream, Think Ill buy me a Football Team."

................pto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ofFa50LzY

[dee-luded 2,959]

I've listened to premiership players in Glen Archer and Cam Mooney both recently (and independently) say that a club's culture is determined by the club's leadership group. Yet you know more than them and consider this to be "garbage".

Garbage is wasting my time conversing with dolts on internet forums.

The very Fact that you have to listen to other people/players, tells me you don't yet understand what it is your grappling with...

It's a journey I'll give you that.

When you eventually go on the Honesty trip oneday, then you may get to understand it.

Until then it will be tough for you to 'get'.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Your "culture" is not just one component of your club - its your complete club.

Players come & go, coaches come & go, administrators come and go, board members come & go - but we have one solid component (ironically for us many sound like they are heading for the exit too). You build your culture from the ground up - what happens on the ground is only a reflection of what is happening off the ground.

Any club is only as good as it members.

Somone who understands.

But then how do you teach IT?

How do you get people to make the Breakthrough?

Heres are some words, have a listen with open hearts & minds & you may start to understand people like, 'Jimma, giving to help', instead of 'To Take'... if you have some, take the time.... a little while away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=LJTfMOzuH28

[Hannibal 5,814]

The very Fact that you have to listen to other people/players, tells me you don't yet understand what it is your grappling with...

It's a journey I'll give you that.

When you eventually go on the Honesty trip oneday, then you may get to understand it.

Until then it will be tough for you to 'get'.

I glean my conclusions based on common sense and the information before me. I disagree with plenty of ex-players/coaches views on lots of things. Paul Roos' comments on Nathan Jones and Brad Miller last year come to mind. But I don't dismiss them out of hand either. It's fair to say that I store more value in their utterings than yours.

After considering the comments of people that have been immersed in successful clubs and looking at sides like Sydney that had renowned leadership groups and club culture their comments made perfect sense. And if something makes sense I start listening. Leadership groups change over time, but it will often be slowly. A junior member of a leadership group that has had years of Kirk/Bolton leading the way will in time also display the same characteristics and share those values and teachings to the next generation of leaders. In time Dan Hannebery will join the leadership group and continue the legacy left by others. That's how you get a strong culture.

I read on this thread by Who that it's the members that create a club's culture. What complete and utter rot. The members would have the least input into club culture. The day you understand that it's the senior players and leadership group that determine a club's culture is the day you'll understand the game a lot better. I won't be holding my breath.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[old dee 23,505]

Win 80% of our games over the next 10 years

[rpfc 28,052]

Rubbish. The clubs culture continually grows from its base, grows bad, or Grows healthy & strong. The young players who arrive, at one culture time, or another, adopt the culture as their own... it grows thru them, & makes them work hard & be proud or makes them defeatist & self indulgent... The culture is reflected in all who habitate the place, & by those who appear on weekends. They all learn it. Thats why, as its passed on down, it's So Hard to Shift & Change... The Culture is all pervading. It needs to be brought out into the Open, to have some Honesty Bleach it in the Cold Sunlight of Day.

If I read you correctly, and that is increasingly becoming difficult, you are agreeing with me about the culture being handed down from those already at the club.

So why call it rubbish?

Unless of course you are tying other aspects of the club to onfield expectations? In which case I think you're misguided.

Your "culture" is not just one component of your club - its your complete club. Players come & go, coaches come & go, administrators come and go, board members come & go - but we have one solid component (ironically for us many sound like they are heading for the exit too). You build your culture from the ground up - what happens on the ground is only a reflection of what is happening off the ground. Any club is only as good as it members.

Ok, this is misguided.

The members are the reason we are so pathetic, lazy, timid, and, at times, unprofessional and insolent on the field?

I am not taking the blame for our pathetic senior players whose sulking, laziness and lack of committment this year only validates the decision by Neeld to demote the lot of them.

Right now our team relies on the good performance of damaged goods 25 years and older - and until others take over - we are going to struggle.

I am hoping we have a few games where those young leaders show themselves to be worthy of their position and begin the changing of the guard in the expectations, committment, and ruthlessness of the team.

It's up to them, not rpfc.

Alas, I am not THAT powerful...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I glean my conclusions based on common sense and the information before me. I disagree with plenty of ex-players/coaches views on lots of things. Paul Roos' comments on Nathan Jones and Brad Miller last year come to mind. But I don't dismiss them out of hand either. It's fair to say that I store my value in their utterings than yours.

After considering the comments of people that have been immersed in successful clubs and looking at sides like Sydney that had renowned leadership groups and club culture their comments made perfect sense. And if something makes sense I start listening. Leadership groups change over time, but it will often be slowly. A junior member of a leadership group that has had years of Kirk/Bolton leading the way will in time also display the same characteristics and share those values and teachings to the next generation of leaders. In time Dan Hannebery will join the leadership group and continue the legacy left by others. That's how you get a strong culture.

I read on this thread by Who that it's the members that create a club's culture. What complete and utter rot. The members would have the least input into club culture. The day you understand that it's the senior players and leadership group that determine a club's culture is the day you'll understand the game a lot better. I won't be holding my breath.

OK Ben, when your ready then.

[satyricon 267]

"Social Sciences (overlaps some Humanities): Semantic beliefs and ritual behaviours that redirect natural inclinations to support a status quo; often used to identify a set of generally shared non-scientific views, values, goals, and practices that characterize a group, organization, or nation in a specified time period, for example Hellenistic Civilization"...that is the definitiion of 'culture' in the Social Sciences...I thought the main aim of a footy club was to win games...so basically what you are all saying is that for the past 47 years NOBODY at the Club wanted to win a game of footy... next we will look at triumphalism and it's associated pitfalls....that is all

Edited April 17, 2012 by satyricon

[monoccular 17,338]

But who do you think sets the tone? It's the seniors- they set it through their elite compliance, elite work ethic, elite preperation (thanks mcqueen) and the rest of the team follows their lead because at the end of the day it's the players that battle together every weekend. They are the comrades in the trenches- coaches and support staff whilst integral to a degreee do not have the same influence on the players as their peers do.

Culture isn't in the wall paper or in the training facilities, it's in the attitude of the playing group and the seniors are the trend setters, and they instill these traits on the youngsters and so continues the culture circle.

Look at our seniors if you need an example. We have sooks who aren't prepared to put in on the field, like to have a drink on the weekend and crash cars and do runners. Great role models to set a great culture.

The rot always starts at the head, and the playing group is the fish!

Aren't you and dee-luded really saying the same thing.

dee-luded mentioned bringing it out into the open - maybe they should start within the group and the new captains should start the ball rolling. If the older woodabeens who missed out don't like it, drop them.

Didn't Geelong do something similar, player driven, with something like a burying of the handbags? (Unfortunately we seem to have dug them up and brought them home).

[dee-luded 2,959]

If I read you correctly, and that is increasingly becoming difficult, you are agreeing with me about the culture being handed down from those already at the club.

So why call it rubbish?

Unless of course you are tying other aspects of the club to onfield expectations? In which case I think you're misguided.

Ok, this is misguided.

The members are the reason we are so pathetic, lazy, timid, and, at times, unprofessional and insolent on the field?

I am not taking the blame for our pathetic senior players whose sulking, laziness and lack of committment this year only validates the decision by Neeld to demote the lot of them.

Right now our team relies on the good performance of damaged goods 25 years and older - and until others take over - we are going to struggle.

I am hoping we have a few games where those young leaders show themselves to be worthy of their position and begin the changing of the guard in the expectations, committment, and ruthlessness of the team.

It's up to them, not rpfc.

Alas, I am not THAT powerful...

The onfield stuff we like to call 'culture' is really a transient one of the current gamestyles X the character & values we want to adhere to out on the field. 'We all go when it's Our turn' type policy. Not really a 'Culture'.

A 'Culture', is a soul deep belief, that stirs our Emotions that Runs Deep & powerful. Something we live by, that makes us Happy or makes us break down & Cry like babies. IMO it is born of a realism that we all desire for ourselves & a Greater World, that Unites Us. Makes us Proud & Fearless. A Tribal Thing that Binds a tribe together, not excludes some.

Exclusion only fractures the Tribe and divides the culture.

[McQueen 17,864]

You need one very strong character to set the tone. I believe our new coach is doing that. Neil Craig in his mentoring role will be invaluable.

Don McLardy is a Melbourne man and is measured in his actions. He will be a great President for this club.

Cam Schwab is talking the talk but his words are carrying little weight because of the various issues we've been confronted with recently.

Along with the new Captains, these key figures are going to re-brand the MFC. That brand is going to portray a new culture.

Neeld has said he only gets one shot at this and I have a belief that he is goiing to pour his heart and soul into his efforts. As supporters, we can't ask for much more than that from a new senior coach.

MFC has been too full of soft, forgiving types for too long. Time for some uncompromising directives that will prove to be the catalyst in years to come.

Edited April 17, 2012 by McQueen

[Watts going on 14]

Do a Malcolm Blight at Crows. Give them 11 games and make some wholesale list changes.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Do a Malcolm Blight at Crows. Give them 11 games and make some wholesale list changes.

You need the whole support of the whole club to sack much loved players and still survive yourself. Blight did it as a returning lost son & Champion.

When he apparently tried to sack players at StKilda, there was a mutiny at least at boardroom level & they sacked him. (The Saints came within one Point of a Grand Final the other way, really they Lost It. a strong culture would have had them win it well)

I'm all for Neeld doing the tough things while our players are still Young & can learn new ways.

[Guest José Mourinho]

The psyche of supporters is a PRODUCT of the club culture, but does not in any way define it.

I do think it extends beyond the players and coaching group though.

And Jim did a lot of work in changing that.

[Guest José Mourinho]

You need the whole support of the whole club to sack much loved players and still survive yourself. Blight did it as a returning lost son & Champion.

When he apparently tried to sack players at StKilda, there was a mutiny at least at boardroom level & they sacked him. (The Saints came within one Point of a Grand Final the other way, really they Lost It. a strong culture would have had them win it well)

I'm all for Neeld doing the tough things while our players are still Young & can learn new ways.

Can't agree with that.

That gives no credit to the pies whatsoever, who I think were the more talented team.

I count the Saints as good as a team that won one flag.

Although their culture was not sustainable. The culture of the bubble - us vs. the world.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Aren't you and dee-luded really saying the same thing.

dee-luded mentioned bringing it out into the open - maybe they should start within the group and the new captains should start the ball rolling. If the older woodabeens who missed out don't like it, drop them.

Didn't Geelong do something similar, player driven, with something like a burying of the handbags? (Unfortunately we seem to have dug them up and brought them home).

It's a sort of 'What we Stand For'.... to stand and applaud, or admire above all.

Kids learn to play a sport out of Love, the Love of their Dad or Mum, to win they're effections.. and the plaudits of the watchers. They want to be excepted & admired. NOT For Money, but for Love...

This is what binds a club & its followers, The Love, like Robbie Flower, wouldn't leave for anything. And the supporters likewise,.

So lets get rid of our 'cheapsuit',,, and start wearing an Honorable One, and Unite this once Great club?

cut the segregation. Bring the club back to the supporters. Casey is fine, but docklands Not.... too far removed from the loved ones.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,725]

The psyche of supporters is a PRODUCT of the club culture, but does not in any way define it.

I do think it extends beyond the players and coaching group though.

And Jim did a lot of work in changing that.

Exactly - the supporters are a part/product of and can influence the club culture, but they do not set the culture.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,725]

cut the segregation. Bring the club back to the supporters. Casey is fine, but docklands Not.... too far removed from the loved ones.

I agree with what you're saying here that the players/staff and supporters need to reconnect and I don't like Docklands - but Casey might as well be Botswana for all I'm concerned. Never been out that way and never will go there.

[Hannibal 5,814]

OK Ben, when your ready then.

Read the following slowly, carefully and take time to think about it.

Frank Costa became President of Geelong in 1998. Brian Cook became CEO in 1999. Mark Thompson became coach in 2000. Players such as Ling, Bartel, Chapman, Ablett, Scarlett, Harley, Corey, Enright, Milburn and Kelly were at the club by 2002. After 5 rounds in 2007 they were 10th after 2 wins and 3 losses. Following the round 5 loss Paul Chapman publicly questioned the club's culture. He criticised the lack of team mentality with many of his fellow players. Mark Thompson followed with a similarly blunt assessment. By 2007 Costa was in his 10th year as President, Cook in his 9th year as CEO and Thompson in his 8th year as coach, yet the culture at the club was considered poor by the players and coaching group alike.

So I ask you 'deluded', how important were the President, Ceo, and Coach in determining the club's culture ? No doubt they have a role, but it's the players who determine the culture and more specifically it's your senior players. Following some brutally honest meetings, reflections and soul searching, together with the guidance of the Leading Teams program, and Garry Ablett being challenged by his teammates to train and work harder, the players embarked upon some rigourous performance standards and accountability. Everyone at Geelong knows that the turn around in the club's culture was player driven. It wasn't the CEO, President, Coach, or Auntie May down the road.

But I know that some still won't get it.

[The Devil's Advocate 2]

I think Neeld recognises that it is player driven - which explains the identity of the two captains.

The fact that the club culture is player driven though does not absolve the coaching staff of the responsibility of providing programs to facilitate an elite culture. You get the sense that this is happening though.

[Demonic_Inferno 17]

Read the following slowly, carefully and take time to think about it.

Frank Costa became President of Geelong in 1998. Brian Cook became CEO in 1999. Mark Thompson became coach in 2000. Players such as Ling, Bartel, Chapman, Ablett, Scarlett, Harley, Corey, Enright, Milburn and Kelly were at the club by 2002. After 5 rounds in 2007 they were 10th after 2 wins and 3 losses. Following the round 5 loss Paul Chapman publicly questioned the club's culture. He criticised the lack of team mentality with many of his fellow players. Mark Thompson followed with a similarly blunt assessment. By 2007 Costa was in his 10th year as President, Cook in his 9th year as CEO and Thompson in his 8th year as coach, yet the culture at the club was considered poor by the players and coaching group alike.

So I ask you 'deluded', how important were the President, Ceo, and Coach in determining the club's culture ? No doubt they have a role, but it's the players who determine the culture and more specifically it's your senior players. Following some brutally honest meetings, reflections and soul searching, together with the guidance of the Leading Teams program, and Garry Ablett being challenged by his teammates to train and work harder, the players embarked upon some rigourous performance standards and accountability. Everyone at Geelong knows that the turn around in the club's culture was player driven. It wasn't the CEO, President, Coach, or Auntie May down the road.

But I know that some still won't get it.

You are correct.

The fish rots from the head, and conversely the opposite is true.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Read the following slowly, carefully and take time to think about it.

Frank Costa became President of Geelong in 1998. Brian Cook became CEO in 1999. Mark Thompson became coach in 2000. Players such as Ling, Bartel, Chapman, Ablett, Scarlett, Harley, Corey, Enright, Milburn and Kelly were at the club by 2002. After 5 rounds in 2007 they were 10th after 2 wins and 3 losses. Following the round 5 loss Paul Chapman publicly questioned the club's culture. He criticised the lack of team mentality with many of his fellow players. Mark Thompson followed with a similarly blunt assessment. By 2007 Costa was in his 10th year as President, Cook in his 9th year as CEO and Thompson in his 8th year as coach, yet the culture at the club was considered poor by the players and coaching group alike.

So I ask you 'deluded', how important were the President, Ceo, and Coach in determining the club's culture ? No doubt they have a role, but it's the players who determine the culture and more specifically it's your senior players. Following some brutally honest meetings, reflections and soul searching, together with the guidance of the Leading Teams program, and Garry Ablett being challenged by his teammates to train and work harder, the players embarked upon some rigourous performance standards and accountability. Everyone at Geelong knows that the turn around in the club's culture was player driven. It wasn't the CEO, President, Coach, or Auntie May down the road.

But I know that some still won't get it.

We Need BRIAN COOK..

He played 4 senior games for our club, so i am sure there is a little connection still there.

What a great final chapter it would be for a CEO career that has been nothing short of Brilliant.

Geelong have improved every year since Cook has been there...& yes i know Frank Costa was part of that

But Brian Cook exudes the Culture traits we need..

[satyricon 267]

Culture is a buzz word that is continually over used....

.this is a game of footy...

.at the moment we have players who are not quite up to the standard required.....if we all just shut up and keep the faith.....

walk away depressed after a game for a while....I certainly did last Saturday....but I am already looking forward to Sunday

all this let's get God in coz he did a really good job with that parting of the Red Sea thing....miracles don't happen...you have to work at it

I have been watching and playing footy for over 30 years, the game is still the same, whoever kicks the ball through the big posts the most wins.

It's just all the crap that now surrounds the game that has changed

MFC just haven't been very good at footy for a while, we may never be that great...but let present admin and footy staff have a go.........

I suppose anybody who has worked at a job for a while and got paid for it, knew how do it straight away and has never made a mistake...