Chip Frawley for Captain in 2012

[rpfc 28,417]

No no. The players are behind the 8-ball at the moment when it comes to accepting responsibility. Maybe after another year of learning under Neeld but not now.

The players at the moment need to refocus themselves on becoming a proper selfless unit and keeping well away from any sniff of politics or power peddling

Understand what you are saying but I am ok with what Leading Teams do if it is restricted to a blind vote from the players for the 7 players they look to for leadership.

The coach/FD then decides on a 5 man LG and a captain. Or captains.

The players should have some input.

That's how I would do it.

Edited September 18, 2011 by rpfc

[Go the Biff 3,420]

Let the players decide. After all, I think they are the best people to judge who has the best leadership qualities.

Also who they have their faith in. You will find this will be a player they would put their bodies on the line for.

Not convinced our playing group has a great record in selecting leaders.

I'm old school on this. The coach picks his captain. That ensures your leaders are on the same page.

[McQueen 17,864]

Let the players decide. After all, I think they are the best people to judge who has the best leadership qualities.

Also who they have their faith in. You will find this will be a player they would put their bodies on the line for.

You're kidding, right?

The team at the moment would not know if a leadership quality came up from behind and bit them on the bum.

[demonique 314]

Woah woah woah, are you voting Davey for captain?

Yes, captains don't have to be the best player and Davey while not the best we have of course but when on song and a happy camper he is brilliant !!

[McQueen 17,864]

Understand what you are saying but I am ok with what Leading Teams do if it is restricted to a blind vote from the players for the 7 players they look to for leadership.

The coach/FD then decides on a 5 man LG and a captain. Or captains.

The players should have some input.

That's how I would do it.

I hope the Leading Teams program gets the flick too. I have a feeling Neeld will not support it after coming from Malthouse's stable.

Massive change needed at the club and Leadership is top of the list. Why would you want to continue with something that has not worked?

I'm all for empowering the playing group but our boys need be engaged before this can happen.

[praha 11,240]

He's great, but the last thing we want to do is put another media shy player in as captain. It has to be one of Moloney, Jones, Trengove or Watts imo. Watts is superb in front of the camera and on radio.

[rpfc 28,417]

I hope the Leading Teams program gets the flick too. I have a feeling Neeld will not support it after coming from Malthouse's stable.

Massive change needed at the club and Leadership is top of the list. Why would you want to continue with something that has not worked?

I'm all for empowering the playing group but our boys need be engaged before this can happen.

I should put my plan for the LG in my sig...

I have said this often:

I would throw everyone out of the LG, strip Green of the capataincy and get everyone younger than 24 in a room and tell them they can pick a max 7 man group from those in the room. They can then pick a captain from the entire squad. Both votes are blind.

The coach/FD then gets that information and takes from it as much as they need.

That is what I would do.

Leading Teams could facilitate that. They are just consultants anyway. They only find leaders, not create them. If they didn't find them it's because there are no leaders...

[simma02 53]

Frawley - NO. I would also like to see the coaching department take control and select a Captain, not the players. I would make Beamer Captain with Trengove and Grimes as the Vice.

Edited September 19, 2011 by simma1978

[nutbean 8,838]

Leading Teams could facilitate that. They are just consultants anyway. They only find leaders, not create them. If they didn't find them it's because there are no leaders...

Nope - leading teams doesn't find the leaders - the program helps identify the leaders. It is through the actions of the individual player within the the system that this leadership comes to the surface. Leading teams also provides support and eduction to improve leadership skills.

The problem is that there are many different aspects to leadership and you may be a standout within the program but that may not translate into leadership action on the field.

We only have insight as to how Green behaved onfield and from a few media performances - we have no insight to his leadership in talking to players, mentoring and off field stuff.

On the reverse side ( and I can only gauge this from the limited view we have on the outside) - I think that Judd shows tremendous leadership qualities on the field but to my mind has been lacking in leadership in some of the incidents that have occurred off the field.

Edit: there many different aspects of leadership but to me the most important is what Judd does on the field ( most of the time) - that captains ability to elevate himself and impose himself on the result. The "do as I do" approach. Judd does it, Hodge does it, Brown does it - however one of the best captains is Nick Maxwell - does he do it ? not really.

Edited September 19, 2011 by nutbean

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

You need a captain who is bold, vocal and leads by actions.

Brent Moloney.

[rpfc 28,417]

You need a captain who is bold, vocal and leads by actions.

Brent Moloney.

Yeah, he is bold and vocal.

Haven't seen much of the third one...

[rpfc 28,417]

Nope - leading teams doesn't find the leaders - the program helps identify the leaders. It is through the actions of the individual player within the the system that this leadership comes to the surface. Leading teams also provides support and eduction to improve leadership skills.

This is essentially what I said.

LT are criticised unfairly but they cannot create, only facilitate what is already there.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Yeah, he is bold and vocal.

Haven't seen much of the third one...

Really?

I think he's done a good job of leading out on the field given the lack of experience around him. Also is responsible for the boxing camps and familiarizes new recruits with the history of MFC when they arrive at the club..

I can't think of another possible captain- given the age of Watts and Trengove.

[Heart Beats True 1,231]

Brent Moloney might exhibit passion for the club however he can't put to words together and doesn't have the general "smarts" needed. JT has the package and should be made captain.

[nutbean 8,838]

Really?

I think he's done a good job of leading out on the field given the lack of experience around him. Also is responsible for the boxing camps and familiarizes new recruits with the history of MFC when they arrive at the club..

I can't think of another possible captain- given the age of Watts and Trengove.

You point of boxing camps and familiarisation of MFC history is important however onfield leadership IMHO is 75% most important part of a captains role. Beamer has been really good in some matches but his disappearance in others has been disturbing.

Gavin Brown was nowhere near the best footballer at Collingwood but week in and week out he would throw himself on live grenades for the team and the team wanted to follow that man. On Beamers off days I would like to see him do something to influence the team albeit small things - rather than disappear off the face of the earth.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

I'm curious. Why is Jamar ignored as a possible captain?

I voted 'No' for Frawley as I don't think he suits the off-field demands (eg, media). I also think all the Jacks are too young, although all of Grimes, Trengove and Watts could be future captains.

Jamar seems to fit the current requirement. He plays like a leader, isn't too young to demand the respect of his peers and speaks well publicly. And by the time he's finished (as captain and/or player), one of the Jacks should be ready to take over. Anyway, he's my choice.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

You point of boxing camps and familiarisation of MFC history is important however onfield leadership IMHO is 75% most important part of a captains role. Beamer has been really good in some matches but his disappearance in others has been disturbing.

Gavin Brown was nowhere near the best footballer at Collingwood but week in and week out he would throw himself on live grenades for the team and the team wanted to follow that man. On Beamers off days I would like to see him do something to influence the team albeit small things - rather than disappear off the face of the earth.

Good point.

Unfortunately many of our players go missing. On your criterea McKenzie springs to mind as a good onfield leader. Probably too young though.

I like the next posters Jamar suggestion. Really can't explain why he never gets considered. Anyone have any theories on that? Ruckmen get overlooked?

[Pates 9,660]

It's a very tough call on who should be captain for 2012, I believe that the only player that's currently showing captain material is JT but I feel for his development it would be better for him to be a VC and do a sort of apprenticeship before taking it on. Moloney is my tip, I reckon he'll be one that Neeled identifies with and there is no doubt he has a huge passion for the club.

I wouldn't be unhappy with chip though, he is one of only two AA players in our team and for me one of the best images is of him blazing away and shrugging off a would be tackler. But I just don't know if he's captaincy material.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Said it before and I'll say it again, Rivers captain for 2 years and then to be replaced by Trengove. Rivers Captain, Moloney VC, while Jones, Grimes, Frawley, McKenzie, Trengove & Watts make up the rest of the leadership group.

Rivers leads by example on the filed by throwing himseld into contests and backing back into packs at his own peril. Has been in the system several years now, seems to have the respect of all his team mates and handles himself in the media just as well if not better then any of Green, Davey, Moloney, Jones or any of our older players.

2 years is enough time to let the role come to a Trengove or Grimes without as much pressure as would come now and should also tie in reasonably well with when Rivers starts to come towards the later years of his career.

Where's HT, I know he'll agree with me!

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

Chip is the best player Melbourne has right now, by a long stretch. Not too bothered with how he presents to the media. In fact, he could block his ears and sing old disco tunes during press conferences as long as he continues to set the example on field. I could live with him as skipper.

[Kento80 83]

Let the players decide. After all, I think they are the best people to judge who has the best leadership qualities.

Also who they have their faith in. You will find this will be a player they would put their bodies on the line for.

Did they do well deciding last time Sloonie? Personally I say no they didn't.

I'm curious. Why is Jamar ignored as a possible captain?

I voted 'No' for Frawley as I don't think he suits the off-field demands (eg, media). I also think all the Jacks are too young, although all of Grimes, Trengove and Watts could be future captains.

Jamar seems to fit the current requirement. He plays like a leader, isn't too young to demand the respect of his peers and speaks well publicly. And by the time he's finished (as captain and/or player), one of the Jacks should be ready to take over. Anyway, he's my choice.

I could definitey deal with Jamar La Dee, although I would favour Jonesy at the moment.

Said it before and I'll say it again, Rivers captain for 2 years and then to be replaced by Trengove. Rivers Captain, Moloney VC, while Jones, Grimes, Frawley, McKenzie, Trengove & Watts make up the rest of the leadership group.

Rivers leads by example on the filed by throwing himseld into contests and backing back into packs at his own peril. Has been in the system several years now, seems to have the respect of all his team mates and handles himself in the media just as well if not better then any of Green, Davey, Moloney, Jones or any of our older players.

2 years is enough time to let the role come to a Trengove or Grimes without as much pressure as would come now and should also tie in reasonably well with when Rivers starts to come towards the later years of his career.

Where's HT, I know he'll agree with me!

Said it before and I'll say it again, NO! Had a decent year this year, but that's the first in a while, not a good speaker on camera, and that's enough for me to say no when we have others who are more consistent performers, and perform well in the media.

[rpfc 28,417]

We have so many NQR leaders...

Jamar? Where has he been in LG discussions in the last few years? Nowhere. Obviously not a leader. We pounce on the one year Green was overlooked when he started the year injured (and fair enough - if you want to be a leader you can't pick and choose times) and Jamar is constantly overlooked. Says a great deal.

Rivers? Love his courage but he doesn't scream leadership to me at all, in fact the only thing screaming some of the time is me, when I see his body language from time to time when the team is under the pump or he is down on form.

Moloney? He is the closest thing we have to a captain from those older than 23. But his year has been pure Melbourne - good enough so that he will pick up the Bluey but just pathetic against better teams throughout the year. We need him the most and he goes missing. Anyway you phrase his poor performances against good teams - he hasn't stepped up.

If my idea goes forward I think we will have a seven man leadership group consisting of Grimes, Trengove, Frawley, McKenzie, Watts, Garland, and Jones (or a smaller one with those names) and either Moloney as Captain or a few of the younger brigade sharing it.

[Guest bonjohn]

I love Brad Green don't get me wrong 2010 was fantastic for him but he isn't captain material have him step down and he will perform better.

But on to the topic at hand CHIP, just about the only bloke who goes at it every week, is strong, fast and makes plays, his only downside is that he is terrible infront of the media but I dont really care, throw Watts in front of the camera he seems to like it....

Let's get it done people.

CHIP FOR CAPTAIN.

Great point about Green.He was never captaincy material,his stock has dropped just as he was gathering respect.he should have been left to play the opportunist role. Hopefully,and i believe will,he would take the the demotion well and go back to kicking goals goals .He will no longer feel the need to impose himself on the game and stay inside the forward fifty.Anytime he tried to lift us by venturing further up the ground for a contest would end in disaster.

Jack Trengove,is Melbournes only choice.He is in the coal face,to quote Jimmy Bartel"never gives up" , embraced the club from day one and publicly when his draft companion was vacillating .

A new culture needs to be born and a competitive,demanding of loyalty character is needed.He is also wise beyond his years and performs extremely well with the media.Remember the sling tackle,as melbourne players and officials let off steam publicly this young man took it in his stride and was immediately looking forward to the reality of returning in four weeks.

I think the world of Frawley though believe he lost a little to his previous year.His disposal and decision making was Scarlett like in his all aussie year.He is no Tom Harley or Maxwell ,this guy does not get to drop off and get easy kicks,he needs defend and attack.I do not believe these type of honest defenders make great captains though would love to be proved wrong

[PRIME 41]

I see a fair few people putting up Grimes I like him but he is too injury prone, he hasn't shown anymore leadership on field than chip. I also see alot of people talking about the media does this really factor into the choice of the captain? You don't see Newman of the tigers doing too much.

Once again I state my case Frawley is our best player, is young and leads by example IMO he could be a backline neitz.

[Guest bonjohn]

Did they do well deciding last time Sloonie? Personally I say no they didn't.

I could definitey deal with Jamar La Dee, although I would favour Jonesy at the moment.

Said it before and I'll say it again, NO! Had a decent year this year, but that's the first in a while, not a good speaker on camera, and that's enough for me to say no when we have others who are more consistent performers, and perform well in the media.

One of your responses was that you would take jamar but prefer Jones.

Jonesy for captain,i must live in a different dimension.He is one of the undetectable,by some,cancers at melbourne.

Turns the ball over,goes when he wants to go and is terrible in close. Yes he does do the occasionally almost brilliant thing though most often than not this is followed by an attempt to be beyond brilliant leading to turnover and opposition goals.

His decision making is terrible and i believe he is a selfish footballer,rarely bringing players into the game,he likes to do things by himself. He does not do the simple team things well ,a terrible link in a chain of handballs.

He is seen to be tough though i am in discordance,HE RARELY GOES LOW ,and i mean with impending oncoming contact,IF EVER,which is the new courage in AFL.He comes of the outer to line someone up and has a tendency to bump rather than tackle in these situations.He is also a poor tackler as he tends to hug rather than pin one arm in order for the chance of holding the ball or for the ball to spill from the tackle in our forward line.

For some reason he has some currency among a few fans and pundits,i would put him, up for trade though doubt you would get much.WHY?Because the people in the know,OPPOSITIONS,NEVER,EVER TAG HIM.

He is the biggest optical illusion in the AFL.Shaved head,tatts , good build and an angry look will not confuse Neeld,my guess is you will be seeing alot more of him at Casey next year.

If he is our next captain keeping up with the jones will be a serious mistake.