Green's Vest

[rpfc 28,430]

Some bad puns there...

Thought there would be a thread for this...

Should be one at least.

He cannot be captain next year.

Discuss.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Viney certainly sent a message which I was pleased to see.

If he wants to be captain next year he'll need to play 2 blinders in the next few weeks.

Then we again go to the debate of who gets the gig?

As I've said on another thread I'd give it to Rivers on the understanding that it's for no more then 2 years before handing it over to one of our young stars. Preferably Trengove, Watts or Grimes.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Some bad puns there...

Thought there would be a thread for this...

Should be one at least.

He cannot be captain next year.

Discuss.

Seeing as how we have an established precedent for sacking captains we might as well continue. Why would we want to have some stability at this stage of our development?

[drdrake 3,163]

If you get a change watch Viney's press conference, it explains why Green had the vest, the club was concerned he wouldn't get through a full game. Thank god because he also mentioned that if Green wasn't the Sub Sylvia would have been.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Seeing as how we have an established precedent for sacking captains we might as well continue. Why would we want to have some stability at this stage of our development?

Surely you can't be serious...

[rpfc 28,430]

Seeing as how we have an established precedent for sacking captains we might as well continue. Why would we want to have some stability at this stage of our development?

Stability?

How about some leadership?

We have to move past our NQR 'over 25 year olds' and give the reigns over to the generation with fight and talent, before they are poisoned by the affliction that has bleaded the relevance out of their more 'senior' peers.

You want stability?

Give me this Leadership Group (or something like it): Garland, Frawley, Grimes, Watts, Scully, Trengove, and McKenzie and they will be there for a decade.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Surely you can't be serious...

..... "I am, and don't call me Shirley!!"

[rpfc 28,430]

..... "I am, and don't call me Shirley!!"

Hey Rusty, you ever seen a grown man naked?

[The Reverend 1,736]

Surely you can't be serious...

Brad Green may be down on form but he does commit to the contest. Stability is important to a team. I fail to see how you can think it's not. You can't just keep sacking captains and expect to develop a serious culture of success in a club. It's easy to sit in the armchair and pontificate isn't it.

[QueenC 74]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....

Last years version was far superior, and I want (we need) that one back.

So if that means removing the captaincy, then so be it, because he is important, he's just not a leader.

Edited August 22, 2011 by QueenC

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If he wants to be captain next year he'll need to play 2 blinders in the next few weeks.

He still might not keep the captaincy. Its not just about his playing form. And then again how would you rate playing against the teams we have in the last 2 rounds?

Brad Green may be down on form but he does commit to the contest. Stability is important to a team. I fail to see how you can think it's not. You can't just keep sacking captains and expect to develop a serious culture of success in a club. It's easy to sit in the armchair and pontificate isn't it.

So is leadership. Stability is wonderful if it means a continuance of the things that make a side successful. A lack of leadership is not one of them. Given what has been this year,MFC need to rectify the issues that are undermining our potential.

[Damo 3,356]

If Green has the captaincy taken from him after one year, during which the coach was sacked, there would be an outroar.

Im not sure where I read the article about how being a football club captain can mess with your own game (and mind), but it struck a cord with how i feel about Greeny.

He isnt concentrating on his own game. Maybe he wont be able to, but maybe he will be better after this annus horribilus.

If there was a stand-out for the position, I would be all for it, but our leadership problems run deeper than the captain.

I dont believe the balance will be put right with bringing in JT a year or two too early.

MFC has a history of not changing captains or coaches quickly, for good or bad.

I was astounded and confused when Greg Healy was installed as leader after Robbie flower instead of Danny Hughes. But they stuck with it, for three years.

A good player before taking the poisoned chalice, Suger wasnt the leader Danny was, and his game suffered.

[The Reverend 1,736]

He still might not keep the captaincy. Its not just about his playing form. And then again how would you rate playing against the teams we have in the last 2 rounds?

So is leadership. Stability is wonderful if it means a continuance of the things that make a side successful. A lack of leadership is not one of them. Given what has been this year,MFC need to rectify the issues that are undermining our potential.

Just explain where Green's leadership falls down. Give an example of where his leadership has been poor. Don't confuse some lack of form with poor leadership. The guy believes in the club and is committed to the cause.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Crawf52

[Arrow 1,257]

Just explain where Green's leadership falls down. Give an example of where his leadership has been poor. Don't confuse some lack of form with poor leadership. The guy believes in the club and is committed to the cause.

We got flogged by 186 points in Geelong and he was grinning the whole time through his press conference. He cannot public speech thus putting pressure on other players to do Melbourne's press coverage also.

The man is a great footballer but a poor captain.

[P-man 13,366]

Just explain where Green's leadership falls down. Give an example of where his leadership has been poor. Don't confuse some lack of form with poor leadership. The guy believes in the club and is committed to the cause.

He doesn't lead by example. His second and third efforts are poor compared with the majority of the younger players. He doesn't seem to want to take the initiative in placing himself around the ball when the chips are down, which results in him gathering dust in the forward line quietly observing from afar as we get killed in the centre.

He's also not known for kicking a "captain's goal". i.e. a goal when the team desperately needed it. Can't recall the last time it happened.

Then there's his off field persona. Giggling his way through interviews. Smiling like a cheshire cat after his team has been systematically mauled.

Those are a few reasons, since you asked.

[rpfc 28,430]

Just explain where Green's leadership falls down. Give an example of where his leadership has been poor. Don't confuse some lack of form with poor leadership. The guy believes in the club and is committed to the cause.

His body language is pathetic. His head is down and he is more concerned with winning free kicks than inspiring anyone.

He can go missing for massive periods of games - and this isn't about form. He had one kick against the Cats in the first half of that massacre. Bad form would be butchering 10 pressure touches - hell, I would take that.

But to be nowhere in a game like that? For a coach you love? And then he has the temerity, the blinding lack of self-reflection to do a 'nervous laughter "one of those days"' radio interviews after the game. And his mea culpa's in the press since haven't been good enough - he should be saying "I need to harden up and expect more of myself, my body language, and my actions" but instead he is talking about how sorry he is for Dean and how hard the year has been for him.

I don't care what it has done to him, I care about winning a flag.

And the senior players having more influence over this group is not going to help us. We have to move on.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

I believe Brad cares, and thinks he does, but he doesn't realise that he doesn't care enough to damn everyone else and do what is best for the club regardless.

That's how I see it.

He's too worried about doing the "right" thing, or what he thinks is expected of him, rather than just doing anything he can to stand up as a leader.

He's a follower and his "leadership" is being dictated by what he thinks others expect of him.

He is capable of going in hard and winning contested footy, but because he thinks he's expected to kick goals, when he gets near them he skirts packs, waiting for the handball receive.

On tv he says what he thinks he's expected to say, and looks like an idiot in doing so.

He wilts when the camera is on him, due to the pressure of saying the "right" thing.

He doesn't have any of that "F#%k it, I'll do it myself" about him.

He doesn't say to himself "this is my team - I'm gonna take charge and make something happen."

That is onfield leadership.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Gareth Keenan

[H_T 3,047]

Just explain where Green's leadership falls down. Give an example of where his leadership has been poor. Don't confuse some lack of form with poor leadership. The guy believes in the club and is committed to the cause.

There is no "I" in team. Although there is "me".

If he believes in the club and is committed as you say he is, he would have performed much better than he has in the last several weeks. ie. Geelong, Carlton, Bulldogs games. He would also respond to questions by media in a more captain-like manner. Recent interviews are confirmed examples. In a list that is deficient in leadership and few examples of leading from the front when the chips are down, Green has been virtually absent throughout. Youngsters have shown more in one quarter of football in the last two months.

That is where he falls down in answer to your question.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Hey Rusty, you ever seen a grown man naked?

Haha... uh oh ....

Do you want me to check the weather Clarence?

[rpfc 28,430]

Haha... uh oh ....

Do you want me to check the weather Clarence?

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue...

[WhateverItTakes 17]

I really don't think that it would be fair to sack Greeny after just one year at the helm.

To me, he really does try to hard to do "what is expected" of him, on and off the field, but doesn't do it successfully.

Maybe he is just settling into it?

He stood up against Essendon, and kicked a goal as soon as he came onto the ground yesterday. Unfortunately he missed his next two (crucial shots), which I think reflects his year. Doing his best to be who he is meant to be, but just coming up short.

Keep him there for one more year, and see what happens. He bleeds too much for the club to not be given at least that, and it's probably all he has left in him anyway.

[H_T 3,047]

Keep him there for one more year, and see what happens. He bleeds too much for the club to not be given at least that, and it's probably all he has left in him anyway.

What do you think the alternative(s) is for the club in terms of the captaincy for 2012 ?

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

I really don't think that it would be fair to sack Greeny after just one year at the helm.

To me, he really does try to hard to do "what is expected" of him, on and off the field, but doesn't do it successfully.

Maybe he is just settling into it?

He stood up against Essendon, and kicked a goal as soon as he came onto the ground yesterday. Unfortunately he missed his next two (crucial shots), which I think reflects his year. Doing his best to be who he is meant to be, but just coming up short.

Keep him there for one more year, and see what happens. He bleeds too much for the club to not be given at least that, and it's probably all he has left in him anyway.

He fails miserably.

But the worst part is that that isn't LEADING.

Trying your best to do, and worrying about, what other people expect you to do, is FOLLOWING.

We need a leader who intrinsically knows what to do, and can follow his gut without all the second-guessing.

The players would be able to smell fear in their captain.

God knows I can.

[WhateverItTakes 17]

We need a leader who intrinsically knows what to do, and can follow his gut without all the second-guessing.

The players would be able to smell fear in their captain.

God knows I can.

Can you name anyone who is capable or ready for any of that?

Moloney comes to my mind, but I'm still thinking giving anyone just one year as captain isn't acceptable.

Edited August 22, 2011 by WhateverItTakes

[P-man 13,366]

I'm starting to think Col Sylvia...

Maybe I'm still giddy from that hanger in the goal square.

Trengove is the standout at the moment but obviously a couple of years away so it's really an interim captain's role. Not easy.