ET TU COLIN?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sylvia should be on more than Scully for his next contract. He should be in the top few earners at the club. He is a much better player than Scully right now - great disposal, kicks goals, can play forward and midfield, damages the opposition, in his prime, everything that Scully is not. If Melbourne had to lose one, I prefer we keep Sylvia.

No he shouldnt. Its a misnomer to solely judge value on the right now. FFS Scully is in his 2nd year of AFL and has had an injury hit year. He is 5 years off his primeIf Scully does not surpass where Sylvia is right now over the term of the next contract it will only be through chronic injury. While you would prefer to accommodate both, if you had to lose one with an eye to the future it would not be Scully.

I'll go with that; Col has had some pretty bad injuries over the years and hopefully with a full pre season he will be the game breaker we know he can be. If Tom Scully is worth $600k per year then I can't see why Col should be paid that much less.

Hopefully with a full pre season..FFS Sylvia is in his 8th year of AFL. He has had about the last 3 pre season for full training. He is very much WYSIWYG. Tim Harrington would shake his head at equate Sylvia with Scully's value.

But what is his price?....that is more the question. We all know Colin has talent to burn.

Well Colin. Must have had some bushfires on that talent. Its 8 years and I have yet to see him break games that everyone has been beating the drum about. He is a capable player but he is not the game changing messiah that many have prayed and seem to be overvaluing. You are right to be asking "what price"? It certainly not where Scully's salary will be and it certainly wont rise over the next four games.

[daisycutter 29,626]

No he shouldnt. Its a misnomer to solely judge value on the right now. FFS Scully is in his 2nd year of AFL and has had an injury hit year. He is 5 years off his primeIf Scully does not surpass where Sylvia is right now over the term of the next contract it will only be through chronic injury. While you would prefer to accommodate both, if you had to lose one with an eye to the future it would not be Scully.

Hopefully with a full pre season..FFS Sylvia is in his 8th year of AFL. He has had about the last 3 pre season for full training. He is very much WYSIWYG. Tim Harrington would shake his head at equate Sylvia with Scully's value.

Well Colin. Must have had some bushfires on that talent. Its 8 years and I have yet to see him break games that everyone has been beating the drum about. He is a capable player but he is not the game changing messiah that many have prayed and seem to be overvaluing. You are right to be asking "what price"? It certainly not where Scully's salary will be and it certainly wont rise over the next four games.

Well what do YOU think Sylvia is worth?

Scully could well end up a better player than Sylvia (debateable) and WHEN he is he will deserve a bigger contract value.

If it wasn't for the GWS issue what do YOU think Scully's really value is NOW

My opinion is $450+ and $350+ respectively

For Scully then add a 'bonus' because of the one-off GWS situation but it has to be realistically justifiable

[Dee Fan 3,247]

No he shouldnt. Its a misnomer to solely judge value on the right now. FFS Scully is in his 2nd year of AFL and has had an injury hit year. He is 5 years off his primeIf Scully does not surpass where Sylvia is right now over the term of the next contract it will only be through chronic injury. While you would prefer to accommodate both, if you had to lose one with an eye to the future it would not be Scully.

Hopefully with a full pre season..FFS Sylvia is in his 8th year of AFL. He has had about the last 3 pre season for full training. He is very much WYSIWYG. Tim Harrington would shake his head at equate Sylvia with Scully's value.

Well Colin. Must have had some bushfires on that talent. Its 8 years and I have yet to see him break games that everyone has been beating the drum about. He is a capable player but he is not the game changing messiah that many have prayed and seem to be overvaluing. You are right to be asking "what price"? It certainly not where Scully's salary will be and it certainly wont rise over the next four games.

And a broken jaw and a broken toe but let's not worry about all the facts hey Rhino?

[Guest Thomo]

No he shouldnt. Its a misnomer to solely judge value on the right now. FFS Scully is in his 2nd year of AFL and has had an injury hit year. He is 5 years off his primeIf Scully does not surpass where Sylvia is right now over the term of the next contract it will only be through chronic injury. While you would prefer to accommodate both, if you had to lose one with an eye to the future it would not be Scully.

I'm not just judging right now, that's why I said next contract. Your post had one good point - Scully is five years off his prime, which will be his next contract, when he is open to free agency and the current contract will not be a factor. Over the next four to five years I believe that Sylvia should be paid more than Scully. I think that he will be a better player over that period. Scully may be better in five years when Sylvia is past his best, but by that time it will be a new contact. I think it would be very hard to argue from what we have seen that Scully should be paid more than Sylvia over the next few years.

What has been reported is just what media suspect, I don't take it as gospel, so the figures are probably not correct, but pay each Melbourne player what they are worth, not what other clubs think that they are worth.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,865]

If he does go we must get a player in return. Otherwise we're rebuilding forever.

Can't let this gun go for just another draft pick.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

First time poster....long time reader....

I cant believe how quickly some people dismiss this bloke and move on to who we can get instead of him!!!!

Melbourne need to get their sh!t together and re-sign Sylvia quick smart!!!! The guys a gun and has been one of our most consistent throughout 2011...

+1.

Good post.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

For all intensive purposes its the same.

Give him a break. He's no rocket surgeon.

For all "intents and purposes" perhaps. Speaking of grammatical errors!

Oh dear.

If he does go we must get a player in return. Otherwise we're rebuilding forever.

Can't let this gun go for just another draft pick.

That's my main point. I like the idea of Hanneberry (cos I think he's a better all round player), but only cos he'll mature with the rest of our guns. But there has to come a time where you stop being the training ground for other sides. Trading Woey, Trav and Brock when they were past their prime is one thing. trading Silly when he has 3 of his best years right at his doorstep is a worry.

I liken it to the MLB. The Toronto Blue Jays are a side who always suck. They have no money, but somehow end up with the best pitcher in baseball in Roy "Doc" Halladay. Then the Phillies come steaming in with millions on dollars and snaffle him up in exchange for about 4 big name prospects. But history will show that the good doctor will win a few Cy Young awards, take his team to multiple Division championships... and people will wonder why they parted with him. Obviously it's because they're poor. But then we're no different If we were the Pies or Blues we wouldn't even be talking about this. He'd have signed aready.

And for that reason, the ONLY way forward is for MFC to be steadfast in negotiations. There's no other way.

[Guest hangon007]

+1.

Good post.

+2

Good post.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And a broken jaw and a broken toe but let's not worry about all the facts hey Rhino?

Over 8 years Robbie? Keep holding your breath for the pre season. And you will missing the irony of chiding people about facts. LOL.

Well what do YOU think Sylvia is worth?

Scully could well end up a better player than Sylvia (debateable) and WHEN he is he will deserve a bigger contract value.

If it wasn't for the GWS issue what do YOU think Scully's really value is NOW

My opinion is $450+ and $350+ respectively

For Scully then add a 'bonus' because of the one-off GWS situation but it has to be realistically justifiable

Sylvia will be worth what the Club is prepared to pay him. And I would only contract him for two possibly three years. Sylvia game could go either way. While being more consistent that he has been in the past, he still delivers poor games with the good. And we are all still waiting for the game breaker potential that has yet to arise.

Its pity the GWS hype has tainted Scully. We have only seen him in 27 games in less than 2 years. And what we have seen is he is smart, hard working, huge tank, elite hands and his kicking will improve. People forget that he is the first player oppositions are tagging in MFC's midfield in his second year. While Sylvia will be a nice to have in the side, I would expect Scully, barring injury, to move past Sylvia within 2 years. In 5 years I would expect Scully to move into the top bracket of midfielders. If you are going to secure that sort of talent you are going to have to pay for the expectation of the talent improvement.

How much is the bonus?It may end up not being realistically justifiable but it secures him. And from media reports it appears that there isnt a bonus.

[jayceebee31 761]

I see this as Melbourne playing hard ball with its contract talks, like Davey, Green & Bruce.

Whether or not we lose Sylvia or whoever, we won't be left paying too much for players like we have in the past. My expectation is growing of landing a a big name when free agency arives.

I concur

[Trisul 664]

Ahahah. This thread is fantastique. Hope to see Col for many years to come.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm not just judging right now, that's why I said next contract. Your post had one good point - Scully is five years off his prime, which will be his next contract, when he is open to free agency and the current contract will not be a factor. Over the next four to five years I believe that Sylvia should be paid more than Scully. I think that he will be a better player over that period. Scully may be better in five years when Sylvia is past his best, but by that time it will be a new contact. I think it would be very hard to argue from what we have seen that Scully should be paid more than Sylvia over the next few years.

What has been reported is just what media suspect, I don't take it as gospel, so the figures are probably not correct, but pay each Melbourne player what they are worth, not what other clubs think that they are worth.

You did say Sylvia was a better player now.

The case against your view is that Scully's improvement will take him past Sylvia. How much improvement are you likely to see in Sylvia?

......but pay each Melbourne player what they are worth, not what other clubs think that they are worth.

I would have thought the marketplace will determine what players are worth at contract time.

The important assessment of "worth" is not what MFC or other Clubs think a player is worth, its what a player and his manager believe they are worth and what other non $$$ intangibles they can extract.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Anyone who says Sylvia is hot and cold obviously hasn't watched very hard this season. In the past yes, but this year he has been steady without as many of the big starring games we had seen from him in the past year or two. The Bulldogs game the only one I can think of where he was poor.

He must be retained.

Edited July 22, 2011 by forest85

[rpfc 28,544]

Are you serious or do you just like the sound of your own keyboard?

You can compare whoever you want with whomever you want to compare them too. My opinion hasn't changed, there is imo, no comparison between the two sets of negotiations, one is ongoing the other is on hold, one is negotiating the other isn't, it's not that hard when you think about it.

Sylvia has apparently said he is not happy with the Melbourne offer Scully doesn't even want to know what it is.

As for their respective football ability that's always going to be subjective they both bring different skills to the table I just happen to think Sylvia is a more complete player, for instance he can kick long and accurately as well. If Sylvia can apply himself he could be one of the premier players in the comp and al for the bargain basement price of $450k per year which is probably what he's worth not double.

I do make sweet music with the keyboard...

The difference is the current movement of the negotiations? Sylvia's contract is apparently at an unhappy impasse. How is that better than one that is scheduled for September?

Comparing Colin and Tom is a subjective nightmare.

But if was in charge of any club, looking for someone for the next 5 years and beyond, I know which footballer and individual I would want...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Over 8 years Robbie? Keep holding your breath for the pre season. And you will missing the irony of chiding people about facts. LOL.

Facts; this is what you said; correct?

"He has had about the last 3 pre season for full training."

Want to rethink your response or perhaps change it?

Col Sylvia spent the early part of his career with OP that's a fact too or don't you remember that? Try to get something right.

[Mallee Bull 97]

The heading for this thread is a bit much. Sylvia is just making sure he gets what he deserves. He's arguably our best player right now, and so deserves to be paid accordingly. If we have offered Scully 3 million over 5 years, I'd hope we can offer at least the same amount to Col. His value is based on what he is producing, not on his potential.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I do make sweet music with the keyboard...

The difference is the current movement of the negotiations? Sylvia's contract is apparently at an unhappy impasse. How is that better than one that is scheduled for September?

Comparing Colin and Tom is a subjective nightmare.

But if was in charge of any club, looking for someone for the next 5 years and beyond, I know which footballer and individual I would want...

Might I suggest you stop drinking our own bathwater, it's a nasty habit.

Melbourne know what they have offered Col Sylvia, Melbourne know how much Col sylvia wants and it is up to them to negotiate for a contract and talks are ongoing.

Melbourne know what they have offered Tom Scully, Melbourne have only heard through the press what GWS have offered Tom Scully, Tom Scully hasn't told Melbourne what he wants, there are no ongoing talks, Tom Scully will tell the club at the end of the year if they have retained his services.

Can you spot the difference there?

Who you want at Melbourne is your business, just as who I'd prefer is mine and let's say we disagree.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The heading for this thread is a bit much. Sylvia is just making sure he gets what he deserves. He's arguably our best player right now, and so deserves to be paid accordingly. If we have offered Scully 3 million over 5 years, I'd hope we can offer at least the same amount to Col. His value is based on what he is producing, not on his potential.

And you'd have to consider Trengove to be worth the same as Scully if we are looking at potential.

[daisycutter 29,626]

Sylvia will be worth what the Club is prepared to pay him. And I would only contract him for two possibly three years. Sylvia game could go either way. While being more consistent that he has been in the past, he still delivers poor games with the good. And we are all still waiting for the game breaker potential that has yet to arise.

Its pity the GWS hype has tainted Scully. We have only seen him in 27 games in less than 2 years. And what we have seen is he is smart, hard working, huge tank, elite hands and his kicking will improve. People forget that he is the first player oppositions are tagging in MFC's midfield in his second year. While Sylvia will be a nice to have in the side, I would expect Scully, barring injury, to move past Sylvia within 2 years. In 5 years I would expect Scully to move into the top bracket of midfielders. If you are going to secure that sort of talent you are going to have to pay for the expectation of the talent improvement.

How much is the bonus?It may end up not being realistically justifiable but it secures him. And from media reports it appears that there isnt a bonus.

C'mon Rhino, I asked you to cut to the chase and nominate contract values which you have avoided doing

I'm not asking for a performance summary of the players, that has been done by many. I just want to know what is your bottom line and saying "will be worth what the Club is prepared to pay" doesn't tell us anything.

So......prepared to name figures??

[the fearless fozzle 0]

I heard earlier in the year AFL commentators call Port Adelaide the most amateurish football club in the competition

with the way where going, where not far behind, treat your players better melbourne, pay them what they deserve. Scully will hurt this club in more ways than one

[rhaz 342]

I heard earlier in the year AFL commentators call Port Adelaide the most amateurish football club in the competition

with the way where going, where not far behind, treat your players better melbourne, pay them what they deserve. Scully will hurt this club in more ways than one

Give reasoning for your accusations... at the moment your post is just empty of anything that suggests why you think we're amateurish. Scully hasn't yet let the club and neither has Sylvia. If they are both here next year and happy, are we still amateurish?

[Guest hangon007]

I heard earlier in the year AFL commentators call Port Adelaide the most amateurish football club in the competition

with the way where going, where not far behind, treat your players better melbourne, pay them what they deserve. Scully will hurt this club in more ways than one

hahaha ... yip dont think our football department agree with you ... they think Scully will "hurt" us that much they are prepared to make him one of our highest paid players.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

C'mon Rhino, I asked you to cut to the chase and nominate contract values which you have avoided doing

I'm not asking for a performance summary of the players, that has been done by many. I just want to know what is your bottom line and saying "will be worth what the Club is prepared to pay" doesn't tell us anything.

So......prepared to name figures??

Shall I pluck numbers out of thin air like you do?

What does that achieve?

[daisycutter 29,626]

Shall I pluck numbers out of thin air like you do?

What does that achieve?

It would just tell us what one poster (who seems to be knowledgeable) thinks would be reasonable

Others can then agree/disagree or offer their own estimates

I'm especially interested in what percentage difference you see and then we can speculate what that might mean for other players comng off contract this year or next.

Without some figures there is no framework for discusion

I agree my estimates are from someone at 20,000 feet but they're my best attempt

Sylvia is "reported" to want 450, club is "reported" to offer Scully 600-750 depending on what one reads

Some posters say Sylvia is better/worth more (now) than Sculley, others disagree

I'm having trouble trying to make sense of it all and that's why I'm encouraging posters to play list manager and nominate some figures

I've noticed in the past you have been prepared to talk contract value

In the past there was discussion about what Davey, Bruce and Green were worth, so why not Sylvia and Scully

I'd really like to know what you think because you would have a much better idea than me

I might disagree about where Sylvia and Scully are at in their development and skills but that's a separate issue

I'm not trying to put you in a corner or something. I'm genuinely interested to guage your opinion (and any others).

[rhaz 342]

Schwab is currently on triple m... when asked he said he would be 'very surprised' is Colin didn't play the rest of career at Melbourne, and suggested that he would get paid quite well in his next contract...