The Viney push

[dee-luded 2,958]

I disagree and after watching the game the other night I can't see where I got it wrong we have 18 on field defenders with our current structure; that will not win games this year or ever. If that's the plan then the plan stinks.

It is interesting the way people refer to how long it took Thompson to finally get the results at Geelong; I guess it depends on whether you are half full or half empty type. There is the school of thought that if he was a really good coach it wouldn't have taken him as long to mould the side and he should have won more than 2 flags especially with a side like that. I for the life of me can't understand how a good coach would have allowed Hawthorn to win the GF against them in 2008.

Oh well, obviously there was no team structure, how could there be in a side being built of kids with hardly any games and some so-so seniors who are on their last seasons. A team decimated over the last few weeks by suspensions and injury. There wouldn't be ant structure left intact, even our new kicker is injured.

So to think we should be playing like champions with defesive/offensive setups, is reall asking too much until we get some players back.

[daisycutter 28,704]

Nothing is ever achieved by sacking a coach mid season.

Show me one good example where this has worked favorably for a club?

Wasn't Paul Roos at the Swans a good example? I seem to remember others going way back but details elude me.

Whether its good or bad surely depends on the circumstances at the time and who gets the caretaker job.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Oh well, obviously there was no team structure, how could there be in a side being built of kids with hardly any games and some so-so seniors who are on their last seasons. A team decimated over the last few weeks by suspensions and injury. There wouldn't be ant structure left intact, even our new kicker is injured.

So to think we should be playing like champions with defesive/offensive setups, is reall asking too much until we get some players back.

Sorry I know we have a lot of injuries but to suggest that we have no team structure because of this is a little bit much.

We had no team structure before we got the injuries how do we explain that away? We were off right from the start this year and by that I mean the NAB cup we fell apart then.

[biggestred 4,386]

i once coached a womens uni team who were quite successful........ill be caretaker for the rest of the year. apparently i "cant do any worse"

[dee-luded 2,958]

Sorry I know we have a lot of injuries but to suggest that we have no team structure because of this is a little bit much.

We had no team structure before we got the injuries how do we explain that away? We were off right from the start this year and by that I mean the NAB cup we fell apart then.

We did have structure. Don't confuse that with lacking the confidence and form to adhere to it. We had it against the Swans. It showed briefly against the Hawks. And we burnt against a lowly Crows, first time we witnessed the Demons forward press. don't be fooled that we don'rt have one, but we've got to learn to 'team together' first, before any structures will stick. And we'll have to get 'Bigger' bodies to hold our structures as well or stronger sides will brush us off. The structures break down when poor confidence stops the side from takjng attacking risks and missed targets, poor decisions and errors generally.

[dee-luded 2,958]

i once coached a womens uni team who were quite successful........ill be caretaker for the rest of the year. apparently i "cant do any worse"

Maybe your qualified to get more from Morton and Bennell. LoL...

[Bimbo 911]

Viney must be immediately appointed coach.

He would have no trouble in turning a team missing between 8 and 10 first 22 players into an immediate premiership prospect.

He has a great AFL coaching record - well at least he was involved in a team that once won a premiership.

Of course if He isnt massively successful he can be given the flick - or at least not ratified at the end of the year.

And of course his son will be delighted to give his all for the team that sacked his old man.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We did have structure. Don't confuse that with lacking the confidence and form to adhere to it. We had it against the Swans. It showed briefly against the Hawks. And we burnt against a lowly Crows, first time we witnessed the Demons forward press. don't be fooled that we don'rt have one, but we've got to learn to 'team together' first, before any structures will stick. And we'll have to get 'Bigger' bodies to hold our structures as well or stronger sides will brush us off. The structures break down when poor confidence stops the side from takjng attacking risks and missed targets, poor decisions and errors generally.

I don't confuse it with anything, I see 18 players all in the opposition half of the ground and I see no way out once the ball is locked in there. We actually assist the process by clogging up our own backline and making it impossible to get out of it.

Where's the structure in that?

Against Hawthorn we kicked the ball out from goal 6 times in a row to the same spot, and 6 times it just bounced straight back in, is that part of the plan and part of our structure to be so predictable.

[Pates 9,537]

It's all well and good to use Paul Roos as an example but the fact is that the success rate vs failure when sacking a coach mid season would be skewed MASSIVELY towards failure.

IMO very little will be gained from sacking him mid-year.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Viney must be immediately appointed coach.

He would have no trouble in turning a team missing between 8 and 10 first 22 players into an immediate premiership prospect.

He has a great AFL coaching record - well at least he was involved in a team that once won a premiership.

Of course if He isnt massively successful he can be given the flick - or at least not ratified at the end of the year.

And of course his son will be delighted to give his all for the team that sacked his old man.

very smart for a bimbo

[Bimbo 911]

Baldish blondes are like that

[btdemon 475]

Guys I have little real knowledge of DB's coaching ability.

Only the results on the field.

Before all the injuries we were not setting the world on fire.

I believe we do not have the cattle right now to implement DB's plan

even if the plan is a good one.

We are now 3.5 years into the Bailey reign.

In spite of the changes over that period our progression

seems to be limited to the size of our defeats.

We have had a little bad luck with some draftees in Strauss and Blease.

However few clubs get every pick correct.

My biggest criticism is we seem to pick mainly skinny kids who are going to take 4+ years to develop.

Not a Rich or Darling anywhere.

The nett result is a list that is probably 3 years from maturity.

And if they all make it we will have a good team that may make a GF.

But with each passing week I have less belief in that theory.

My patience is almost at an end.

IMO if we do not see a great revival in July and August

I will be looking for a Coaching change

Because that is probably the only thing that will get me up for 2012.

What do you call Tappy then?

[btdemon 475]

What makes people think that Viney wants to be senior coach?

Also, wouldn't it just be a tiny bit awkward having your son playing in a team where you are coach. Yes, I know it happened with Andrew and Lindsay Gaze but they were different times.

[rpfc 27,646]

What makes people think that Viney wants to be senior coach?

Also, wouldn't it just be a tiny bit awkward having your son playing in a team where you are coach. Yes, I know it happened with Andrew and Lindsay Gaze but they were different times.

And they were the absolute champions of the sport.

It would be like Mick Malthouse and Chris Judd-Malthouse in the one club.

It's beside the point anyway.

I just don't see the desire to get a caretaker in there.

If our players can be fired up by a Viney or a Royal or a Barrassi (football clubs in Europe would go for the legendary former player/coach to be 'caretaker') then why is that a good thing?

They should spend the rest of 2011 attempting to find something within themselves so they are not so dependent on a media roast, a coach's bake, or any other cooked food...

[Mondê 525]

I want to see what Bailey can come up with in terms of gameday coaching, with a full team in. Not just one week, I want a 4-5 week stretch of our best 22 playing together. I will judge him then. Giving him the flick would be very reactive and you would have to be very naive to think even the best coach could turn our form around, with so many injuries. For the record I am not convinced Bailey is a great gameday coach or tactician. He is a great developer and list manager. On paper our best 22 looks very good. However now is the time where we need instil a winning culture into these kids and I'm not sure Bailey and his complete lack of the forward press structures are up to scratch. Time will tell.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I want to see what Bailey can come up with in terms of gameday coaching, with a full team in. Not just one week, I want a 4-5 week stretch of our best 22 playing together. I will judge him then.

No team ever has that with injuries and suspensions. Up until the Adelaide game Melbourne only had around three injuries (Scully, McKenzie and Campbell), the closest any team will come to full strength and Melbourne were not performing too well under Bailey.

[wackojacko 25]

I know this will probably be howled down by members far more knowledgable than I, however I personally think Daniher gets a bit too much flack on here. Daniher took us deep into finals twice in his first four years, and the other years whilst bad, weren't nearly the pathetic excuses we have been recieving under Bailey.

Now some would say Daniher had better cattle, or that Bailey chose the development approach whilst Daniher took the players he had to another level. What I would say is something I have said already in another thread; There seems to be a general acceptance both at our club and in the footy community in general that this bottom out development track is a workable, smart decision. In my opinion it is as yet unproven. St Kilda and Carlton are the most recent examples, and neither has won a premiership to date, and their periods of improvement have come mainly on the back of the aquisition of Judd for Carlton (very little ground up development there and its worth noting they completely bottomed out far longer than they expected from 02-09) or the new gameplan of Ross Lyon at St Kilda, until which point they had under performed. Teams like Collingwood and Geelong never did the complete bottom out play the youth rebuild that we are attempting, neither came last or tanked and neither cleared out as many senior players in the name of improvement as Melbourne.

My point here is that Bailey and Melbourne chose the development approach out of nescessity, that we had very few senior players with workable bodies, and also because it would take the heat off our club at a time when we really needed some support from the Media and the AFL. This was our bed and now we are lying in it, other approaches, such as Daniher's, Worsfold's, Hird's, Thompson' etc. Did not rely on playing our worst and continually excusing unbelievably bad performances for 3 years on the back of a 'development' philosophy. I think we are playing a dangerous game with Bailey as there is no guarentee that his philosophy even works, let alone is the right mindset to impose on our list. I think he should coach out the year, but that serious questions need to be asked both about our direction and about why clubs like West Coast and Essendon are showing so much more than us at this stage.

Yes we were injured against Carlton, yes they are a better team as of now, but very little we showed last night led me to believe we are developing a positive mentality or imbuing our players with the skills and football knowledge to gain future success, we basically gave up the game from the start and played to make the margin look not so bad...

Spot on. My mate is great friends with Ben Holland. Rates ND as the best coach he has had in his career. Holland believes that we had a team under ND that was capable of winning a flag. Only problem was that our lack of funds etc prevenyed us from hiring physios etc, therefore players having to wait longer for post game rub downs etc. Which of course lead to silly stupid injuries which kept many sidelined

[Mondê 525]

No team ever has that with injuries and suspensions. Up until the Adelaide game Melbourne only had around three injuries (Scully, McKenzie and Campbell), the closest any team will come to full strength and Melbourne were not performing too well under Bailey.

They weren't setting the world on fire but they weren't playing too badly either. It's arguable that we prior to the Adelaide injury disaster we would have gone close to beating North, and beaten StKilda. McKenzie is damn important to that midfield and a fully fit Scully in his second year more then handy too. It's unfair at this stage of the season to point the finger at Bailey alone and not other factors, when for example our average games played on the weekend was 59 with a promoted rookie playing his first game and another playing his second. I say lets be realistic and see out the season.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Viney must be immediately appointed coach.

He would have no trouble in turning a team missing between 8 and 10 first 22 players into an immediate premiership prospect.

He has a great AFL coaching record - well at least he was involved in a team that once won a premiership.

Of course if He isnt massively successful he can be given the flick - or at least not ratified at the end of the year.

And of course his son will be delighted to give his all for the team that sacked his old man.

That's a bloody good point.

Assuming Todd wants to take on the role, we'd effectively be signing Todd Viney on for at least the next 18 months.

Even if he was useless, there is no way we'd risk giving Todd the flick before then, as it has the potential to put young Jack Viney offside and lose him as a F/S pick.

Essentially, the club would be placing itself in a conflict of interest in terms of selecting the best available head coach.

[Pates 9,537]

That's a bloody good point.

Assuming Todd wants to take on the role, we'd effectively be signing Todd Viney on for at least the next 18 months.

Even if he was useless, there is no way we'd risk giving Todd the flick before then, as it has the potential to put young Jack Viney offside and lose him as a F/S pick.

Essentially, the club would be placing itself in a conflict of interest in terms of selecting the best available head coach.

I must admit though, there is a romanticism with Todd coaching his son in a premiership team. When was the last time that happened?

Edited May 29, 2011 by Pates

[BLWNBA 369]

Mwah Ha Ha Ha Ha! That has got to be the funniest post I have read for a long time. Actually that reminds me, my mate has been told that Garry Ablett Jnr is unhappy at the GCS and wishes to return to Victoria and is in talks with the Melbourne football department.

Yes I know you stated "take all with a grain of salt" but come on really. Is your mate high up in MFC where he hears such things. If he is, why is he telling a member of the public anything? and secondly why are you repeating such highly sensitive info on a public forum.

Would you really hate to see the club destabilized (ironically thats what you are doing * ) and are we to believe that you would like to see Bailey coach out the season or are these the things we need to take with a grain of salt.

It annoys me to no end all the posturing and wailing going on about how we should sack the coach or elevate another, because as you know the "Powers That Be" really make all their major decisions about coaches from reading footy forums. What a crack up.

Now I am not saying you don't have the right to complain just that it annoys the crap out of me, because I personally don't see the point of complaining and getting worked up over things I have no control over. yes it angers me to see my beloved team play woefully and it saddens and frustrates me to see them lose. But these are the joys of being a supporter of this team. Its all swings and roundabouts and when we are at the top and destroying teams all this heartache and tears will be yesterdays news and I can look back and say hey I knew them when they were crap.

* To quote the great Terry Pratchett "A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on". Mat Damon in an interview with Adam and Will from Triple J once said it easy to make a lie the truth all it takes is one person to say it to another person in a public forum, then some media person picks it up and all of a sudden its news and before you know it you reading a headline that says "Mat Damon caught in a love tryst with Adam and Will and a Goat. So you really need to be careful with rumours because they can end up destabilizing people and clubs.

Harden up mate, if what I said has to be one of the funniest posts on here in a long time, then you're post would arguably be one of the most self-righteous and pompous posts that I've seen in a long time.

If you can't handle rumours or people reporting things as they hear them, than an internet forum probably isn't for you buddy, and also if you've read my previous posts you should be able to understand that I'm supporting what Bailey is doing. It's not that hard to read mate. Get off ya soap box pal.

[tonatopia 278]

This thread must stay active.

The MFC can't allow our brand to be rubbished by insipid performances telecasted live on Friday night. If we have another poor performance on friday night, for all the world to see, the supporters must demand for a replacement coach. We can't afford to go into the QB match as a club that accepts [censored]-weak performances and mediocrity.

MY PATIENCE IS GONE.

I want a side of dee-termined footballers, and an even more dee-termined coach.

Bailey seems to have only faith. It seems he has great faith in Leigh Mathews. Maybe we should take that on board for next year.

In the meantime- give Viney a go. He may do very well. If not, keep him as an assistant for next year and then appoint Mathews.

[BLWNBA 369]

This thread must stay active.

The MFC can't allow our brand to be rubbished by insipid performances telecasted live on Friday night. If we have another poor performance on friday night, for all the world to see, the supporters must demand for a replacement coach. We can't afford to go into the QB match as a club that accepts [censored]-weak performances and mediocrity.

MY PATIENCE IS GONE.

I want a side of dee-termined footballers, and an even more dee-termined coach.

Bailey seems to have only faith. It seems he has great faith in Leigh Mathews. Maybe we should take that on board for next year.

In the meantime- give Viney a go. He may do very well. If not, keep him as an assistant for next year and then appoint Mathews.

Matthews is past it and lost touch with the game, yes he has some good observations of players but on the whole he is out of it. All you have to do is listen to some of his commentating.

[Axis of Bob 10,391]

I want a side of dee-termined footballers, and an even more dee-termined coach.

With puns like that, how can you say that you don't accept mediocrity?