McLean for Gysberts - worth it?

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Scott Thompson's a below average kick anyway

[H_T 2,941]

Brock Mclean is like losing scott thompson. It will hurt and Mclean will end up one of the superstars of the comp. A future captain and sublime footskills. Something that is often rare from an inside midfielder.

Think Gysberts.

Not to mention Scully, Trengove & Tapscott.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Scott Thompson's a below average kick anyway

I dont think so.

IMO Scott Thompson has been one of the best midfielders we have had (albeit for a short time) in the past 8 years. He would easily embellish our lack lustre midfield and his disposal by hand and foot has regularly hurt opposition teams. MFC have had no one of that class for a long time. I hope that has changed witrh the current crop of talent we have.

[rpfc 27,611]

Well I feel a lot happier about having Gysberts instead of McLean...

The anti-Oracle has spoken!

[beelzebub 22,271]

Brocky was never a Scotty !! Brock on his day was/is a pretty fair player ( not too many of those days however) Thompson on his day was/is a very very good player. A big loss for us when he went...imho

[The Oracle 118]

I sense that Brock McLean was no longer as loved at Melbourne as a player of his time and standing at the club should have been and he took what I would describe as the easy way out for him. The player who should have been the standout today for the captain's mantle sought refuge elsewhere. Perhaps it was too hard to look at the face of the emerging Jack Grimes and know that in a year or two he would be overtaken? Perhaps he just looked at Tom Scully and Jack Trengove? Then again, it could have been his old mate Colin, finally growing up after all these years and telling the world why he was pick #3 and Brock was # 5. I suspect Brock needed to go elsewhere. Comparisons with Gysberts will be inevitable but they're unnecessary. This is just about player and club falling out of love. What had to happen, had to happen for the benefit of both.

[Freak 100]

Why does this not surprise me? As soon as a player is out the door, everyone starts talking about how they weren't really that much. If Davey left, everyone would say 'oh we have Jetta and Bennell now so we can afford to miss him'. If Sylvia left, people would say 'that's okay, we don't need people that are in his mental state', if morton left you would say 'he was soft anyway'. You guys turn on players so quickly. You can't keep letting go of quality players. Mclean will fit right into the quartet of Gibbs, murphy and judd and this is the sole reason why Judd will be playing more up forward next season. just like I predicted. P.S Mclean was a heaps better kick than Luke ball and besides Davey was so safe with the footy.

[Pipefitter 2,029]

Why does this not surprise me? As soon as a player is out the door, everyone starts talking about how they weren't really that much. If Davey left, everyone would say 'oh we have Jetta and Bennell now so we can afford to miss him'. If Sylvia left, people would say 'that's okay, we don't need people that are in his mental state', if morton left you would say 'he was soft anyway'. You guys turn on players so quickly. You can't keep letting go of quality players. Mclean will fit right into the quartet of Gibbs, murphy and judd and this is the sole reason why Judd will be playing more up forward next season. just like I predicted. P.S Mclean was a heaps better kick than Luke ball and besides Davey was so safe with the footy.

Good post. People who think Mclean only played one good game ever (Elimination final 06) have rocks in their head. Yes he had a poor season this year, but need we remind you he nearly won the Best and fairest the year before playing only half the games.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,370]

This trade seems very similar to the TJ - Grimes situation in 2008. Although I understand McLean wanted out while TJ was forced out.

TJ was on fire for most of 2008 and appeared to make the Dees look stupid with regards to the trade. While TJ was jagging 35 possession games we were stuck with an injured rookie who was nowhere near an AFL debut. However a year later I think the trade has equalised. While Travis Johnstone will be a handy player off the bench in 2010 for the Lions, we have a young Jack Grimes, a very exciting talent who has already polled 3 votes in a game and ready to be unleashed in the midfield.

I can see McLean having a good season next year for Carlton, perhaps polling between 5 and 10 brownlow votes. Meanwhile Gysberts will switch between Casey 1sts and 2nds. So for next year, the trade won't seem worth it, but hopefully by 2012 we'll start to see the benefits and the rationale behind the trade.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Why does this not surprise me? As soon as a player is out the door, everyone starts talking about how they weren't really that much. If Davey left, everyone would say 'oh we have Jetta and Bennell now so we can afford to miss him'. If Sylvia left, people would say 'that's okay, we don't need people that are in his mental state', if morton left you would say 'he was soft anyway'. You guys turn on players so quickly. You can't keep letting go of quality players. Mclean will fit right into the quartet of Gibbs, murphy and judd and this is the sole reason why Judd will be playing more up forward next season. just like I predicted. P.S Mclean was a heaps better kick than Luke ball and besides Davey was so safe with the footy.

No one has turned on McLean at all. Other posters recognise McLean for the player he is. You dont...as usual.

Found that flaw yet in Michael Newton?

[Sir Why You Little 34,762]

Brock Mclean is like losing scott thompson. It will hurt and Mclean will end up one of the superstars of the comp. A future captain and sublime footskills. Something that is often rare from an inside midfielder.

HaHa Pull the other one, Scott Thompson is way ahead of McLean.

once our new list is up and running his departure won't be missed. Brock is a good bloke with a big heart, but he was always an over rated player.

I would be amazed if he gets his full pace back for a sustained amount of time, after that ankle fracture from 2008.

P.S. Don't put Mclean & Davey in the same category- it makes you look silly.

Edited December 22, 2009 by why you little

[Keyser Söze 0]

Why does this not surprise me? As soon as a player is out the door, everyone starts talking about how they weren't really that much. If Davey left, everyone would say 'oh we have Jetta and Bennell now so we can afford to miss him'. If Sylvia left, people would say 'that's okay, we don't need people that are in his mental state', if morton left you would say 'he was soft anyway'. You guys turn on players so quickly. You can't keep letting go of quality players. Mclean will fit right into the quartet of Gibbs, murphy and judd and this is the sole reason why Judd will be playing more up forward next season. just like I predicted. P.S Mclean was a heaps better kick than Luke ball and besides Davey was so safe with the footy.

Yeah, you're right.

Everyone keeps saying Scott Thompson was rubbish, but I don't think its true.

ps. I think you'll find a lot of people turned on Brock well before he asked for a trade.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This trade seems very similar to the TJ - Grimes situation in 2008. Although I understand McLean wanted out while TJ was forced out.

So its fundamentally different then.

TJ was on fire for most of 2008 and appeared to make the Dees look stupid with regards to the trade. While TJ was jagging 35 possession games we were stuck with an injured rookie who was nowhere near an AFL debut. However a year later I think the trade has equalised. While Travis Johnstone will be a handy player off the bench in 2010 for the Lions, we have a young Jack Grimes, a very exciting talent who has already polled 3 votes in a game and ready to be unleashed in the midfield.

TJ ended up 2008 being dropped by the Lions from the AFL team. So much for being on fire. His performance reflected the up and downs he showed at MFC. He has just managed to resurrect his career at the Lions at the end of last year. Tj was never part of the future at MFC nor did he provide any culture positives to MFC. Voss knows that the Lions need to make hay while J Brown is still aroud and have punted on talented culture sores like TJ and Fev to roll the dice

I can see McLean having a good season next year for Carlton, perhaps polling between 5 and 10 brownlow votes. Meanwhile Gysberts will switch between Casey 1sts and 2nds. So for next year, the trade won't seem worth it, but hopefully by 2012 we'll start to see the benefits and the rationale behind the trade.

You are right that we wont know the outcome on McLean for up to 5 years. The trade for pick 11 was right. Its a matter of did we choose well with it.

[H_T 2,941]

Why does this not surprise me? As soon as a player is out the door, everyone starts talking about how they weren't really that much. If Davey left, everyone would say 'oh we have Jetta and Bennell now so we can afford to miss him'. If Sylvia left, people would say 'that's okay, we don't need people that are in his mental state', if morton left you would say 'he was soft anyway'. You guys turn on players so quickly. You can't keep letting go of quality players. Mclean will fit right into the quartet of Gibbs, murphy and judd and this is the sole reason why Judd will be playing more up forward next season. just like I predicted. P.S Mclean was a heaps better kick than Luke ball and besides Davey was so safe with the footy.

Little itch I want to scratch here.

I've said it before and I'll take the liberty to express it again.

There is nothing worse in terms of poor form by a poster who tends to sledge "all in sundry" (ie. "everyone") rather than reply directly to those recipients whom it is intended for. In this case Freak, not everyone has talked about Brock in this fashion that you express, in fact - if anything - there would only be a few-to-several posters of this view. Putting "everyone" in the same basket is ridiculous. It shows ignorance and dis-respect.

But, I guess we shouldn't expect anything less from you.

Predicting that McLean will fit right in with the quartet of Murphy, Gibbs & Judd and releasing Judd up forward more, is like predicting if the sun will rise tomorrow in the East. It's a monty. Gee, that prediction was difficult !

Edited December 22, 2009 by High Tower

[45HG 1,539]

Correct

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,370]

So its fundamentally different then.

But similar in that we've lost a proven commodity for a first round draft pick.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Can I ask if there is anyone out there that thinks McLean won't be good for the blues next season?

I think HT has said it all.

[green_machine 36]

How Gysberts goes is irrelevant to this debate. The pick 11 has around a 50% chance of becoming an good player and a small chance of becoming elite and a significant chance of not making it. The footy department said that those sort of odds is good enough for a Mclean trade. Judging their decision depends on how McLean performs and nothing else.

(As an aside this rubbish about McLean wanting to leave so let him go is rubbish. We had first pick in the PSD if we wanted to keep brock we would have. If we thought he was better than pick 11 then we should have kept him)

To my mind the trade is a failure if McLean get one top 5 Best and Fairest finish in 2013 - 2015. You could argue that the trade is a failure if McLean is playing regular footy in 2014 but if he gets a top 5 finish when we are challenging for a flag then we made a mistake. IF we transported a top 5 player into either stkilda or WB then Geelong would not have won the Grand Final. So if Mclean is top 5 in those years then we stuffed up.

For the record I am with Freak. I reckon Carlton got a great deal and McLean will be top ten at Carlton for the next five years which is way better than what you can realistically expect from a pick 11. The fev debacle mucked Carlton up so they may not benefit with a premiership from the trade but if Fev was there then he might have got them over the line in a GF.

Anyway McLeans performance will tell us whether the trade works. The next two years is irrelevant it is how his body holds up and allows him to contribute post 2013 that is the measuring stick that the trade needs to be measured on.

[Freak 100]

No one has turned on McLean at all. Other posters recognise McLean for the player he is. You dont...as usual.

Found that flaw yet in Michael Newton?

Found one in Brad Miller yet?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

But similar in that we've lost a proven commodity for a first round draft pick.

We traded TJ because MFC decided he was not part of our future. He was still contracted. McLean was out of contract and was offered another contract at lower rates to his previous contract. He chose to leave. MFC sought the best deal.

TJ was a proven talented but flawed commodity. Brock has not lived up to the hype and is good average footballer at the moment who has much to prove.

I'm with you Freak, I think McLean will be very good for the Blues next year (and that's to be expected because clubs don't give away pick 11 for average players). He will be 4th midfielder instead of 1st, he won't attract a tag and his footy brains will stand him in good stead. I also agree that he was an excellent kick and decision maker when he came to the club but think when he was tagged his disposal suffered significantly.

No one said the deal would not be a win win for both sides. McLean in a midfield rotation and not No 1 midfielder is better for him.

His pace is his issue but he didn't do the last two preseasons at Melbourne and with a full preseason at Carlton and some speed work I'd expect that to improve.

That will affect his endurance but his lack of pace has dogged him all his career.

And Oricle, I'd suggest one of the reasons he left was that he didn't want leadership and going to Carlton with Judd ensures that. I suspect he just wanted to be one of the boys, be himself more and concentrate on his footy rather than carrying the weight of expectation and finding it hard to live up to.

Beyond the dreams of some posters here, he was not certain to be Captain despite stating publicly that he did want it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Found one in Brad Miller yet?

Found many. He is a limited footballer.

Now answer the question..........Any progress with "No flaws" Newton?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

How Gysberts goes is irrelevant to this debate. The pick 11 has around a 50% chance of becoming an good player and a small chance of becoming elite and a significant chance of not making it. The footy department said that those sort of odds is good enough for a Mclean trade. Judging their decision depends on how McLean performs and nothing else.

(As an aside this rubbish about McLean wanting to leave so let him go is rubbish. We had first pick in the PSD if we wanted to keep brock we would have. If we thought he was better than pick 11 then we should have kept him)

To my mind the trade is a failure if McLean get one top 5 Best and Fairest finish in 2013 - 2015. You could argue that the trade is a failure if McLean is playing regular footy in 2014 but if he gets a top 5 finish when we are challenging for a flag then we made a mistake. IF we transported a top 5 player into either stkilda or WB then Geelong would not have won the Grand Final. So if Mclean is top 5 in those years then we stuffed up.

For the record I am with Freak. I reckon Carlton got a great deal and McLean will be top ten at Carlton for the next five years which is way better than what you can realistically expect from a pick 11. The fev debacle mucked Carlton up so they may not benefit with a premiership from the trade but if Fev was there then he might have got them over the line in a GF.

Anyway McLeans performance will tell us whether the trade works. The next two years is irrelevant it is how his body holds up and allows him to contribute post 2013 that is the measuring stick that the trade needs to be measured on.

The choice with McLean was that he was not prepared to re sign a new contract on less money. We had two choices we trade him to the club he wanted to go for pick 11 or we forced him to the ND/PSD and take whatever was given if anything. What would you have done? He certainly was not worth the bickies he was on before as the deemed No 1 midfielder at MFC

Its not a big stretch for McLean to be top 10 at Carlton. Outside the top six, it drops away quickly. Carlton were through with Fev. He was a complete culture and performance nightmare. He crossed his own ticket by refuse to respond to coaching changes during a couple of games this year. Fevs position at Carlton was untenable. They were sorry to lose a star but glad to be rid of him.

[e25 5]

...

To my mind the trade is a failure if McLean get one top 5 Best and Fairest finish in 2013 - 2015. You could argue that the trade is a failure if McLean is playing regular footy in 2014 but if he gets a top 5 finish when we are challenging for a flag then we made a mistake. IF we transported a top 5 player into either stkilda or WB then Geelong would not have won the Grand Final. So if Mclean is top 5 in those years then we stuffed up.

For the record I am with Freak. I reckon Carlton got a great deal and McLean will be top ten at Carlton for the next five years which is way better than what you can realistically expect from a pick 11. The fev debacle mucked Carlton up so they may not benefit with a premiership from the trade but if Fev was there then he might have got them over the line in a GF.

Anyway McLeans performance will tell us whether the trade works. The next two years is irrelevant it is how his body holds up and allows him to contribute post 2013 that is the measuring stick that the trade needs to be measured on.

McLean is likely to have his performance greatly boosted by those players that Carlton will put around him, not of his own accord.

[rpfc 27,611]

McLean will be good for Carlton.

Gysberts has a better chance of being important in 2014 - 2018.

And that is all I care about.

[Akum 2,660]

He will be 4th midfielder instead of 1st, he won't attract a tag and his footy brains will stand him in good stead. I also agree that he was an excellent kick and decision maker when he came to the club but think when he was tagged his disposal suffered significantly.

I think this nails it. In our midfield, Brock always attracted the No.1 tagger and became too easy for other teams to counter. And it wasn't just his disposal that suffered; it was his overall effectiveness. It got to the stage where he just wasn't able to hurt the opposition.

The dilemma for Brock at Carlton will be the same. If he doesn't get tagged, his footy nous and (generally) good decision-making & play-making will do a lot of damage. Unfortunately, that will also get him tagged again and blunt his effectiveness.

Nobody doubts Brock's ability to be an effective and damaging midfielder, but he needs to demonstrate that he can be that when he's getting tagged. If he can do that, then yes, he will have been a big loss.