Ball no longer a Saint, confirmed.

[JACKATTACK 17]

If Luke Ball enters the National draft and he lasts at pick 18, the MFC selects him, regardless of whether he wants to play at Melbourne or not. End of story.

I don't give a fats rats if he wants to play at Essendon or Magpies.

What's that saying - 'best available'.

I like the hard line. I wouldn't go down that road personally, but it wouldn't hurt to make Ball and Conners think that we might.

[Jarka 767]

The other argument is that "we have standards". We're not so bad( and so desperate) that we'll stoop to pick up someone who doesn't want us. "We are on a winning path - and if you don't like it ( or are too stupid to see it) that's your bad luck "

Ball's value is not just tied to his ability to get his hands on the footy. Much of his potential value lies in his ability to mentor the younger players . A reluctant recruit who is not naturally switched on to the challenge of climbing the ladder, is less likely to be an effective mentor - in his first season at least - than someone who has let it be known that he is not interested.

With this I mind, I think DB is quite right to say that a reluctant Luke will not be good enough for the MFC.

You're missing the point, and so are alot of others.

Ball has yet to say he's not interested, we're still in the negotiation stages. What Bailey did was to give him a way out before any real discussions have taken place. Prior to Bailey's comments Ball would have realised that if he wanted to leave the Saints then we would be his likely destination and then he'd be forced to consider us and really research where we're heading. With no other option but the Saints or Demons he may have realised that we're not so bad. But now, because he's basically been given an 'out' clause he can dismiss us as a destination.

As I said earlier what our real intentions are is irrelevant, it's the perception which is the most important thing.

Oh, and this attitude that 'we only want players who'll bleed for the club' is laughable. Modern football is a business, this 'playing for the jumper' tripe is an outdated idealoligistic fairy tale that is now irrelevant. Does anyone honestly believe that either Scully or Trengove would choose to play for Melbourne if they had the choice? If you do then you're kidding yourself.

[beelzebub 22,703]

You're missing the point, and so are alot of others.

Ball has yet to say he's not interested, we're still in the negotiation stages. What Bailey did was to ....

what negotiations are these ?? takes two to talk ...so I would have thought

[Jarka 767]

what negotiations are these ?? takes two to talk ...so I would have thought

The club has been speaking to his manager, that's how things normally work.

Are you saying that he's already made his decision

[1858 265]

You're missing the point, and so are alot of others.

Ball has yet to say he's not interested, we're still in the negotiation stages.

I wonder what that actually means. If by the fact that Ball's manager has not publicaly stated that Melbourne is off the table then I agree otherwise it is a long bow at this point IMO.

What Bailey did was to give him a way out before any real discussions have taken place.

I understand where you are coming from, you are kind of saying that boxing a person in can change the way they think. "If you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow" mentality. The only problem with that is that no matter what Bailey says, the situation will not change with who Ball ultimately wants to play with. If he prefers to stay with St.Kilda then he will, what are his other realistic options?

As I said earlier what our real intentions are is irrelevant, it's the perception which is the most important thing.

Oh, and this attitude that 'we only want players who'll bleed for the club' is laughable. Modern football is a business, this 'playing for the jumper' tripe is an outdated idealoligistic fairy tale that is now irrelevant. Does anyone honestly believe that either Scully or Trengove would choose to play for Melbourne if they had the choice? If you do then you're kidding yourself.

It is a cliche, but it is still an important message to get across. Firstly it reinforces the type of players we are trying to mold down at the club. Secondly it also sends a message to Ball that we will not play out the desperate club routine, we have priorities like any club - something that should be respected. Ball and his manager aren't so naive that if we try and box them in that they will just relent. The other factor is that by pursuing Ball at every length it possibly only serves to give him greater currency which is what he wants with a St.Kilda contract in mind. By not pursuing him at all lengths we may possibly be helping our chances of getting him: 1) not trying to corner him and 2) St.Kilda may not have to offer such a great contract to keep him. There is more than one way to go about this.

I subscribe to your POV only if the ND was in play but I doubt he'll go into the ND anyway and the club have stated a similar opinion.

Edited November 9, 2009 by 1858

[grazman 6,729]

Not that I care, but if he nominates for the ND, the interesting thing could be which team is prepared to take him despite his preferences and at what pick.

Some have suggested that Essendon would use 26, just ahead of Collingwood. Are there clubs that would use a higher pick such as Port with 16 who would see him as some compensation for Burgoyne leaving. Ball and his Manager will have to play a game of Russian Roulette if he goes into the ND.

I still think this will be resolved by friday when the next list lodgement is due.

The Lions have said they will definately take him if available in the draft and they have a pick after Essendon and before Collingwood.

[H_T 2,941]

We will find out tomorrow whether Ball nominates for the ND or not. One more sleep. Then it's either St.Kilda or Demons.

Tue, Nov 10, 2pm – Out of contract listed AFL primary list players draft nomination deadline

Edited November 9, 2009 by High Tower

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Once they're contracted, they're not just assets. They're still people.

Don't let H hear you say that. They're cattle.

[beelzebub 22,703]

The club has been speaking to his manager, that's how things normally work.

Are you saying that he's already made his decision

the club spoke to his manager...yes... to inform him of our interest...what exactly are we negotiating....the lunch bill ?..there are no talks

[Jarka 767]

the club spoke to his manager...yes... to inform him of our interest...what exactly are we negotiating....the lunch bill ?..there are no talks

Wow, you completely missed the point.

[beelzebub 22,703]

Wow, you completely missed the point.

then enlighten we mortals...as youve failed to convey your musings

what is there to miss...nothing is happening !!

[Sir Why You Little 35,318]

then enlighten we mortals...as youve failed to convey your musings

what is there to miss...nothing is happening !!

Sure things are happening, infact i bet there are lots of talking.

Its just not being made public at this stage. Why play your hand early....

[Wolfmother 182]

Jarka, I think Melbourne have played it well by giving Ball a way out.... At the moment its St Kilda or Melbourne so he might stay at St Kilda.... if he thinks he may get somewhere else he may not think St Kilda is such a great idea then put himself on the market... then we can have a chat with him and convince him to come otherwise we can just take him

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Wow, you completely missed the point.

Did you expect him not to? You are giving him far to much credit.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Why would we pick up players from other clubs that are not up to AFL standard or injury plagued? We dont recruit AFL players for the sake of doing so. I think that is more your issue.

Read the last sentence again you have misunderstood what I wrote, although I could name 2 that we have picked up that would be in that category and another is currently training with us.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Jarka, I think Melbourne have played it well by giving Ball a way out.... At the moment its St Kilda or Melbourne so he might stay at St Kilda.... if he thinks he may get somewhere else he may not think St Kilda is such a great idea then put himself on the market... then we can have a chat with him and convince him to come otherwise we can just take him

I think you have contradicted yourself. Bailey gave the impression that if we couldn't convince him then we wouldn't take him.

[timD 994]

You're missing the point, and so are alot of others.

Ball has yet to say he's not interested, we're still in the negotiation stages. What Bailey did was to give him a way out before any real discussions have taken place. Prior to Bailey's comments Ball would have realised that if he wanted to leave the Saints then we would be his likely destination and then he'd be forced to consider us and really research where we're heading. With no other option but the Saints or Demons he may have realised that we're not so bad. But now, because he's basically been given an 'out' clause he can dismiss us as a destination.

As I said earlier what our real intentions are is irrelevant, it's the perception which is the most important thing.

Oh, and this attitude that 'we only want players who'll bleed for the club' is laughable. Modern football is a business, this 'playing for the jumper' tripe is an outdated idealoligistic fairy tale that is now irrelevant. Does anyone honestly believe that either Scully or Trengove would choose to play for Melbourne if they had the choice? If you do then you're kidding yourself.

That option has always existed. Spoken or otherwise. Bailey did not 'call it into being' (he's not that powerful yet). Recruiting a player to a team, who wants nothing to do with the team, who costs a fair bit of coin and is there against his will and getting game time while players who get paid a comparative pittance fail...is a recipe for disaster. This is mainly because we are dealing with people rather than barcodes. Playing for the jumper is not outdated, but its meaning changes. It doesn't mean "the club and its history", it means "the blokes who wear it now with me". In a team sport, that notion will never be outdated. If you think it is, then you're kidding yourself.

As for what people think of the club in the marketplace...well the last 18 months of financial disaster says enough about the wonders of intelligence of people in the marktplace. Perception changes awful fast. Let's see what some successes bring to the perception of the club. The other interesting assumption is about the universally negative interpretation of the club and how recruitment influences that.

Finally, Ball is not an automaton. His manager will have discussed what type of club we are and what we are like. He could dismiss us with or without this. He does not live in a vacuum for goodness sake.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

The Buckley thing is of more interest to me now in terms of our image in the comp. How we treat listed players is important when it comes to advertising to out of contract players from elsewhere. If Buckley leaves and feels communication wasn't up to scratch, then it doesn't paint us in a very good light. Ball not wanting to come here? Well, that's just one player's opinion from the outside looking in, and could very easily turn out to be a mistake. Buckley's dissatisfaction with his treatment is proof the footy department and club has to look at how it's dealing with its players.

STOP THE PRESS.

A player is [censored] off cause he got the ass. Well bugger me that's never happened before.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

That option has always existed. Spoken or otherwise. Bailey did not 'call it into being' (he's not that powerful yet). Recruiting a player to a team, who wants nothing to do with the team, who costs a fair bit of coin and is there against his will and getting game time while players who get paid a comparative pittance fail...is a recipe for disaster. This is mainly because we are dealing with people rather than barcodes. Playing for the jumper is not outdated, but its meaning changes. It doesn't mean "the club and its history", it means "the blokes who wear it now with me". In a team sport, that notion will never be outdated. If you think it is, then you're kidding yourself.

No it didn't. If Ball can't stand St.Kilda\Ross Lyon and it is impossible for him to stay at the club and the only club that can get him is Melbourne no matter what I don't think he would be saying I don't want to go to this club but now he has the option cause Melbourne will not stand in his way. Does anyone seriously think that he will try and ruin his career by playing poor football just because he doesn't got to his desired club? I would think not or the players won't be happy cause he's there. I would have thought they would be happy to get the best players at the club which is something that we can't get because any footballer who can play a bit don't want to come to us. Only players on their last chance want to come to us.

[Dee tention 611]

Ball is going to try and get to Collingwood in the National Draft! Ha! Good luck.

I hope he gets picked up with a top 17 pick. That would let another player slide to our pick 18. A Port or Essendon maybe.

I just dont want him at Melbourne. I would prefer the young kids + Thorp.

[olgreydingo 51]

Ball is going to try and get to Collingwood in the National Draft! Ha! Good luck.

I hope he gets picked up with a top 17 pick. That would let another player slide to our pick 18. A Port or Essendon maybe.

I just dont want him at Melbourne. I would prefer the young kids + Thorp.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/st-ki...7615001590.html

St Kilda loses Ball to draft

You either want to be part of it or you dont!

good riddance Ball.

Look what happened to Buckley when he wanted to go to Eddiewood over the Lions, he wanted to go there because he had more chance of winning a flag!

So history will show, we will be there before Buckleywood!!

[bandicoot 1,395]

I can not believe he has nominated for the national draft...

No way will collingwood sacrifice its first pick on him..

Unfortunately he is not going to Melbourne... It's a little disheartening that he couldn't see our potential...

[45HG 1,539]

This thread reminds me of Hey Hey's "red faces."

Tough to see him getting to the Pies, having to slip past the Bombers, Roos, Dees, Lions etc.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If Melbourne are not interested in Ball if he doesn't want to come to the club, then what are the chances of a cub like Essendon picking him up if he doesn't want to go there either?

EDIT: Assuming that he doesn't want to go there either, only wanting to go to Collingwood.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Clint Bizkit

[Rogue 585]

I hope he gets picked up with a top 17 pick. That would let another player slide to our pick 18. A Port or Essendon maybe.

I like it :D