Gary Lyon Coaching Journey Starts

[Hannabal 4]

Didn't seem to hurt Matthew Knights.

How many here would prefer to be the Bombers right now (ignoring their extra $ resources for a moment)?

Not me.

I know you love your one-liners, but actually say something man. Wtf are you talking about ?

Detail it.

[old55 21,435]

I know you love your one-liners, but actually say something man. Wtf are you talking about ?

Detail it.

You and Rogue are saying Bailey wouldn't have got the job if he didn't talk down the list and insist on rebuilding.

Matthew Knights reportedly talked up the Eseendon list compared with Damien Hardwick who was much more bearish - Knights got the job.

Knights has forged on with veterans, not traded them, played an attacking game style and won games - who'd rather be them right now?

Bailey has taken a different route.

[Axis of Bob 10,308]

He's saying that Knights allegedy won the Essendon job because he thought he could turn them around much quicker than some of the other applicant did. He thought their currently list was better than the other did.

As old says, I'd far prefer to be in our position than Essendon's.

Besides, if anybody saw us play last year then they could see that our improvement and ability to carry out the game plan is far greater than simply what is shown in the W/L column. I also applaud the club for taking the best players, despite knowing that they'd be at scchool all year and play no real part in our season (Watts, Blease). It's very easy for a coach to be selfish about these things and pick up ready made players, even as 18 year olds. Look at Essendon, who picked up Hurley and Zaharakis with their first picks. Richmond picked up Hislop, traded for Thomson and picked up a 19 year old in the second round.

People assumed that one year at the bottom would mean we'd hop straight back up. It won't because all it did was have a year without some of our older players and we've brought in players that will not deliver for a few years after they are drafted. If we pick up Scully and Trengove then it's a bit different because they should contribute to our side pretty much straight away. Maybe next year we'll be able to get something out of Watts, Blease and Strauss as well. Thye should be 5 new players to our team to bring in next year.

I'm happy with the platform we're building on and I'm happy with the improvement in team ethic/pressure and our improvement in carrying out the game plan.

[Demondeb 8]

Agreed

Lyon IMO should have made his move into coaching a few years ago

Had Lyon started coaching us say, when ND went, so basically instead of DB, he would have the exact same problems DB has had and would be in the same position probably now. So, then would you be calling for his head if results didnt come next year???

I am fully behind the club and DB and think he has a sound plan and is looking to the long term future of the club, not necessarily at his own future. Naturally, one would assume he would like to be part of our success but he can see where he wants the club to be in relation to the players development and I am inclined to think that he has that ahead of his own future as the coach.

BTW I am not against GL coaching us but I would say it would be at least another 3 years or so anyway.

[Hannabal 4]

You and Rogue are saying Bailey wouldn't have got the job if he didn't talk down the list and insist on rebuilding.

Matthew Knights reportedly talked up the Eseendon list compared with Damien Hardwick who was much more bearish - Knights got the job.

Knights has forged on with veterans, not traded them, played an attacking game style and won games - who'd rather be them right now?

Bailey has taken a different route.

Knights veterans are far better quality and still performing - save Lucas. He was hardly going to pension off Lloyd and Fletcher, and nor did he need to.

I'm not privvy to Bailey's interviews. I'm not sure that he would have talked down the list, but more so discussed his strategy moving forward. He didn't need to be a rocket scientist to realise that most of our veterans had had it. You knew it, I knew it, he knew it, and the club knew it. If he'd suggested otherwise he wouldn't have got a look in.

Essendon started their list rebuild 2 years earlier and were at a more advanced stage. So I don't see it as a great analogy.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Why now? that's the question I would want an answer to. Most people who want to coach at AFL level are into it a year or two after their playing careers are done. Not 10..

Gary's obviously an icon of this club, but why didn't he put his hand up to coach us 2 years ago when the club was in disarray?? Or why hasn't he shown any inclination in the past?

I'm worried that it could have the potential to cause friction within the club. It smacks of someone who sees an opportunity to grab hold of a young and exciting playing list as its starting to bear fruits.

We all know Bailey's out of contract at the end of next year, and if things don't go according to plan, his tenure might be in jeopardy. Forgive me for being presumptious, but I don't really understand why Gary would pursue this now, especially when he's got a cushy role in the media...

I'm happy with what Dean's done so far and I like the direction we're headed in. So long as we're not a complete rabble at the halfway point of next season, i'd like to see us sign him on for another 2 years. At least then he can see some rewards for all the hard work he's put into rebuiling our list.

I would be less suspicious if Gary signalled exactly what his intentions are. Attempting to slide into the head coach position through the back door would not be befitting of someone who is a champion of this club...

This is just speculation of course, but I am a bit concerned tbh...

[Jaded No More 58,673]

I find the unwavering support of Dean Bailey on this forum quite interesting

I think everyone took my comments about Bailey as 'unwavering support', which it isn't.

I never claimed that he's our next premiership coach, because to be honest I don't know how good he is on matchday or how good he can become with a better team.

But as it stands, he has done a great job given what he had at his disposal, and has never once put himself ahead of the team. He has done exactly what I wanted him to do, and has made us a better team, which not many coaches with his win/loss ratio can claim to have done.

Maybe other coaches would have done the same, maybe not, but that's irrelevant.

What matters is that Bailey has brought us many steps closer to a premiership, and for that I applaud him.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Jaded, I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. There's a great deal of support on here for Bailey and I like that. I'm actually not unhappy with the direction of the club, I just feel the jury is still out on whether Bailey can coach, and that it's not unreasonable for us to have a good look at how we're doing during next season before extending his contract.

[Jaded No More 58,673]

and that it's not unreasonable for us to have a good look at how we're doing during next season before extending his contract.

That goes without saying.

As I mentioned before, 6-8 victories next year and some real improvement from our kids and further development of the game plan would be enough for me to see Bailey awarded a new 2/3 year contract.

To be fair, we could and should have been on 5 wins already, if we didn't tank against Richmond and played at our fullest possible strength against Sydney. I doubt we would have lost by such a large amount last weekend if weren't tanking as well, so an improvement this season is already pretty clear.

[Ryan Dee 140]

To be fair, we could and should have been on 5 wins already, if we didn't tank against Richmond and played at our fullest possible strength against Sydney. I doubt we would have lost by such a large amount last weekend if weren't tanking as well, so an improvement this season is already pretty clear.

All If's and But's.

We should have only won one more game this year and it's against Richmond.

All the other games we lost and probley wouldn't have one IF we had a so called full strength team.

[Demon3 2,541]

Here's an idea, how about we read and LISTEN to what Garry said. Not interested in coaching at the moment, wont even contemplate it for another 2 years. And i reckon he deserves more respect from people on here and to take him on his word, rather that pointless speculation. We as a club are better than that, and he does plenty for the club, so instead or critisising him, how about we embrace him.

[Rogue 585]

Why now? that's the question I would want an answer to. Most people who want to coach at AFL level are into it a year or two after their playing careers are done. Not 10..

The fact he had young kids might have been an issue.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

The fact he had young kids might have been an issue.

Perhaps... I just think the timing's a bit odd with where our list is at, and Bailey's contract situation. It's almost like he's just sniffing around to see what transpires with us next year...

I couldn't imagine that Gary would want to pack up with the family and move to Adelaide for instance, to coach Port. I couldn't imagine that Gary would want to coach anywhere except for us tbh.

If he came out and said "I want to coach at AFL level, wherever that might be", well i'd say, fair enough, good luck to ya... But to my knowledge he hasn't yet.

He's just putting the feelers out at this stage.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Here's an idea, how about we read and LISTEN to what Garry said. Not interested in coaching at the moment, wont even contemplate it for another 2 years. And i reckon he deserves more respect from people on here and to take him on his word, rather that pointless speculation. We as a club are better than that, and he does plenty for the club, so instead or critisising him, how about we embrace him.

If this forum isn't for 'pointless speculation' then what is it for??

Just because he says he doesn't want to coach at AFL for a couple of years doesn't mean he won't pursue an opportunity. You need to be in the system to even be considered for a senior role, which is obviously why he's getting involved in the development program.

He's been great for the club, and I do respect him for what he's done for us. But I could not imagine him wanting to coach at another club tbh. I don't think he's ever come across as a person who wants to be a career coach. Someone who'd pack his bags up and go to Perth or Brisbane, or whatever...

[Demon3 2,541]

Well i think he deserves better than comments like this:

"Attempting to slide into the head coach position through the back door would not be befitting of someone who is a champion of this club..."

He would never do it. And why couldnt he just have a passion for young kids playing the game without it meaning he "is getting in the system to be considered for a senior role" I'm sure Jason MCartney does not want to be considered for a senior role, yet he is coaching young kids.

It's a cop out to suggest he is after the top job when he has done nothing, and said nothing to suggest he is.

[Its Miller time 6]

Will be great for the future having a loyal Demon looking after the best 16 year olds.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Well i think he deserves better than comments like this:

"Attempting to slide into the head coach position through the back door would not be befitting of someone who is a champion of this club..."

He would never do it. And why couldnt he just have a passion for young kids playing the game without it meaning he "is getting in the system to be considered for a senior role" I'm sure Jason MCartney does not want to be considered for a senior role, yet he is coaching young kids.

It's a cop out to suggest he is after the top job when he has done nothing, and said nothing to suggest he is.

Jason McCartney doesn't have the same profile Lyon does, which allows him to pursue a fairly lucrative media career that McCartney couldn't. I mean, do you honestly believe someone as high profile as Gary Lyon, who hosts the footy show, who is a highly sought after commentator in the football media to just want to coach young kids just cause he's passionate about it??? pfft..

It's not a cop out. I said that I had the highest respect for what he's done for the club, i'm just saying that if he wanted to coach us, he should've appeared on the scene when we were last looking for a senior coach. If he wants to coach another AFL team then that's fine, he can do whatever he wants. I'm sure he'd make a good coach because he has a really solid understanding of the game and would be able to communicate well with young players in particular i think.

Look, I was probably being a bit harsh, but I was only speculating on the reasons why I thought he wanted to be involved in the development role. I wasn't saying it was what he was doing. I was saying, 'this is what I hope he's 'not' doing'. I just don't believe that he's getting into coaching kids for the 'fun of it' as you say, or to become a 'career coach'...

[rodney_g 63]

Will be great for the future having a loyal Demon looking after the best 16 year olds.

I thought that too. An extra recruiter with in-depth knowledge of ability and character would be a handy resource!!

[Demon3 2,541]

Not sure your in the position to sit there and say that he couldnt be passionate about things just because he has another lucrative job...

having or not having a lucrative career does not make anyone more or less passionate about things.. i

And your missing the whole point anyway, he has never said he wants to coach us, didnt want to 2 years ago, does not now, so its a nothing argument.. which is why i get frustrated at people having a go at him. for years he has been damned if he didnt coach us, now it appears he is damned if he does coach us.

Anyway mate, we are both on the same side, just at opposite ends of teh ground. Enjoyed the banter!

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Not sure your in the position to sit there and say that he couldnt be passionate about things just because he has another lucrative job...

having or not having a lucrative career does not make anyone more or less passionate about things.. i

And your missing the whole point anyway, he has never said he wants to coach us, didnt want to 2 years ago, does not now, so its a nothing argument.. which is why i get frustrated at people having a go at him. for years he has been damned if he didnt coach us, now it appears he is damned if he does coach us.

Anyway mate, we are both on the same side, just at opposite ends of teh ground. Enjoyed the banter!

I didn't mean to slight Gary, i just get a bit carried away when I brainstorm sometimes and think aloud...

Gary's been great, it was more in response to people who are suggesting that Lyon should take over from Bailey at the end of next year. I think Bailey's copped a lot of crap that he hasn't deserved in recent times from all points - media, supporters, outsiders... that has been unwarranted.

I know that if things aren't going well early next year, Lyon's name will be put forward as a replacement for DB. It would be a good idea if he actually came out and said, 'I have no intention of coaching Melbourne' in the next few years... But if he's just scouting for us then that's great! But, yeah, i dunno..

I rate DB's coaching, and I think he should be given a fair opportunity to show what he can do with a decent list, decent facilities, and a unified board...He hasn't had that opportunity to this stage...(i mean those things have only really started to materialize during his tenure..)

Edited August 12, 2009 by Scully The Tank Engine

[H_T 2,941]

<!--quoteo(post=257085:date=Aug 12 2009, 02:22 PM:name=Scully The Tank Engine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scully The Tank Engine @ Aug 12 2009, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=257085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.......i'm just saying that if he wanted to coach us, <b>he should've appeared on the scene when we were last looking for a senior coach. </b>If he wants to coach another AFL team then that's fine, he can do whatever he wants. I'm sure he'd make a good coach because he has a really solid understanding of the game and would be able to communicate well with young players in particular i think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It could come down to as Rogue said, his kids could have been an issue. It's all about planning. That and probably the lucrative Footy Show host spot. He has alway's said coaching for him is an itch just waiting to be scratched. I can see your point of view that he might want to have waited for a list of good quality youngsters with a few games under the belt and a couple of years development, and to then coach them.

Maybe he also thought at the time the list was in disarray and would of liked to help Melbournefc appoint someone with good development experience with kids and who'd love to teach young kids just into the system (Ie. Bailey), before he made a move. Who knows? Maybe he thought this process was a little too hard for him, let someone else do the hard yards. Let Bailey bring them up to speed, get the quality players in by refining the list, a few priority picks or 1st draft choices, mould them a little first - get 20-30 games under the belt and have them cherry ripe for G.Lyon to take over and get all the accolades.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

You seem to fail to realize that Garry was only one person on the coaching sub-comittee - he was not the only person who chose DB! Others chose DB too, otherwise he would not have got the job.

Btw - how do you know that DB is "the worst coach possible"??? How do you know another coach who was on the final list would have done any better to this stage??

It was a very poor sub comittee.

WALLS - A [censored]. They should change his title as special comments man to obvious comments man.

HEALY - A clown. Bailey just needed to say that I want my game plan to resemble Freo's and he would have got his vote.

BURKE - More interested in joining the St.Kilda board.

Lyon was the only one interested in the future of the club.

No coach could do a worse job than Bailey they may not have done any better, we will never know. You can't get any worse than 2 spoons in a row as a coach. I don't think anyone would keep their job after that maybe Pagan did and he wouldn't have lasted much longer.

[Hannabal 4]

You can't get any worse than 2 spoons in a row as a coach. I don't think anyone would keep their job after that maybe Pagan did and he wouldn't have lasted much longer.

Ironically, it's the two spoons in a row that will give this club it's best shot at a flag in 40 years.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Ironically, it's the two spoons in a row that will give this club it's best shot at a flag in 40 years.

That's why I think Lyon is a genius.

[Roost It 1,434]

It was a very poor sub comittee.

WALLS - A [censored]. They should change his title as special comments man to obvious comments man.

HEALY - A clown. Bailey just needed to say that I want my game plan to resemble Freo's and he would have got his vote.

BURKE - More interested in joining the St.Kilda board.

Lyon was the only one interested in the future of the club.

No coach could do a worse job than Bailey they may not have done any better, we will never know. You can't get any worse than 2 spoons in a row as a coach. I don't think anyone would keep their job after that maybe Pagan did and he wouldn't have lasted much longer.

Is this a serious post. You dismiss them like they have no idea. Here's one for you

BROCKSTARS - Will say just about anything to prove his point.

Sorry to be rude but fair dinkum.

Surely by now you realise that Bailey has half a squad to choose from and is under clear instructions to win no more than 4 games. Mission accomplished.