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N. Jones, Dawes, Watts and Hogan didn't run. The top 23 all finished within one minute of each other: 1. T-Mac (6 seconds ahead of Bail) 2. Bail (5 seconds ahead of Jordie) 3. Jordie (3 seconds ahead of Grimes) 4. Grimes (7 seconds ahead of JKH) 5. JKH (was stoked with himself, probable PB. Finished 2 seconds ahead of Cross) 6. Crossy (filthy at himself, or just exhausted) 7. Howey (finished right after Cross, along with the next 5 in quick succession) 8. White 9. Stretch 10. Viney 11. Lamumba 12. Newton (elated at finish line, probable PB) 13. Dunny 14. M. Jones 15. Toumpas 16. Salem 17. Vince 18. Brayshaw 19. Harmes 20. O-Mac 21. Pedo 22. Tyson 23. Jetta 20 seconds later were Kent, Michie, Fitzpatrick, Vandenburg and Petracca (absolutely exhausted). 25 seconds later Frost, then 5 seconds later Garland, then Garlett 5 seconds after that. Didn't recognize the player who came next (99% certain this was Kieran Collins, our AIS trainee), and King was last. *May have missed a few players in the mix but top 20 is accurate.

...unless we hear the results from the Geelong time trials.

I think it was around the 15 minute mark.

It's interesting for someone like me who always reads D'land but seldom posts (anymore) the often quite vitriolic posts that are directed to TDI's training reports. I'm assuming DD36 that you also attend just as many sessions as you seem also to be very well informed (is that correct) I for one don't attend training sessions and so read with avid interest the reports from people that do attend and whilst I realise that these are opinion based I would certainly see no reason to bag these opinions . When the season proper starts we will see for ourselves the improvement or not in our MFC players. So if Roos & Co see fit to keep Jordie, Bail, etc on our list , I for one will applaud these players for trying to get the best out of themselves & will withhold criticism until it is warranted in 2015 & not based on past performances. In summary ....to all those who are able to attend training sessions the reports & photos that are posted are very much appreciated by I am sure many on Demonland & when I am in a position to actually watch the players in this pre-season then I can then legitimately agree or disagree with these posts

Misleading stat. Do you ever think that due to a player - (in this case McKenzie) - being aware of his weakness at a given skill, (in this case kicking) he will always go a safe/short/backward option for fear of making a mistake which will lift his disposal efficiency making this stat look awfully silly without context? I can assure you that neither McKenzie nor Bail would still be on the list had our club not been so mismanaged in all areas over the past near decade. Again, misleading. Your training reports are fascinating. I enjoy reading them. But when it comes to objectively analyzing and critiquing players in which you have developed personal relationships with, it becomes impossible for you to do. Of course as you say, there are those on this forum who perhaps completely write off/slag off players and the club unfairly. But there are also those in-between who know that once certain players are pushed out of the side or moved on from the club, it'll be further evidence that the playing list is becoming stronger. Your care for each player on a personal level is endearing, but it stops you from seeing the bigger picture. Of course coaches know which individuals need to improve in certain areas of their game. Of course those individuals themselves know that there are areas of their game that need improving. Of all clubs within the AFL we're the one that has lacked the most talent and depth for years now. That is a result of having drafted and developed so poorly over the same time period. Which is a result of having the worst playing leaders, coaches and administrators within the AFL over the same time period. Do you not think that they're the reasons we've had players like McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Evans etc on our list for so long? Nicholson and Evans are gone. Why? Because we have now added talent and depth, which is a result of having competent on-field leaders, coaches, recruiters and admin. That will also continue next year. And whilst Jordie will be trying as hard as he can to improve areas of his game with coaches who will be working just as hard with him, the reality is he will not be on our list for much longer. And that is because he does not add enough at AFL level. Neither myself or any other Melbourne supporter needs to be an AFL qualified coach to be able to make that call. Nor do I need a print out of his kicking efficiency average from last year. It's the ability to critically analyze in an objective manner.

2019 Jones 27, Melksham 24 2018 Brayshaw 19, Petracca 19, Gawn 23, Garland 26 (UFA), 2017 Dunn 27, Hogan 20, Viney 20, Lumumba 28, Kennedy-Harris20, Salem 19, Vandenberg 23, Neal-Bullen 19, Stretch 18, Kennedy* 21, Bugg* 23, Oliver18, Weideman18, King18, Hulett18 2016 Trengove 22, Dawes 26, Grimes 25 (RFA), Watts 24 (RFA), Vince 29, Tyson* 21, Kent 21, M Jones 27, Spencer 25 (UFA), T McDonald22, Terlich 25, Jetta 25, Garlett 25, Frost 21, Newton 22, O McDonald 19, Pedersen 28, King ®19, White ®18, Smith ®20, Hunt 19, Harmes 19, Michie 23, OUT (8): Cross (Ret.), Jamar (Del.), McKenzie (Del.), Riley (Del.), Bail (Del.), Fitzpatrick (Del.), Howe (T), Toumpas (T) INS (8) : Melksham, Kennedy, Bugg, Smith ®, Vandenberg (Upgraded), Harmes (Upgraded), Oliver, Weideman, King, Hulett * = Require confirmation... Those underlined are player I think are the top 11 paid players; RFA is determined by players being among these 11 (obviously this will be wrong but hopefully indicative). Ages are from the 1st April 2015 - an arbitrary date fit for a fool...

I was actually at training this morning Just a few notes on the 3k time trial We had 10 players sub 10 minutes, with Tommy Mac first and Max King last, that being said King took 25secs of his time, said he had to Jimmy Toumpas was bitterly disappointed with his time, has had a bit of a cold and couldn't get the engine running smoothly Salem was around the 10 05 to 10 30 mark (trying to get the correct time was a battle, (bloody Arsenal supporter) Viney took 2 secs off and got a PB HL surprised me, he said he did ok for his first 3k, seems Collingwood only ever did 2k, he was around the Salem time McKenzie and Cross were both sub 10, so was Bail Jetta didn't front for training, so assume he is crook with his poor 3k They had another good hard session when they got back to Goschs, lots of ball work, Stafford did a lot of work with the ruck brigade which was all present, so that's a bonus there, Jamar, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, King Hogan did the full session, has now got a mean looking haircut to go with the new beard, looks bloody fearsome Only Terlich and Watts really in rehab, they did a bit of kicking and marking with Spencer at the beginning, Watts forgot it was wet and took a beautiful tumble trying to mark, bounced straight up so would say the groin problems are over Any questions feel free

Well, logic didn't work. If everyone thought and acted like you we'd have no club. Be thankful that they don't.

Enjoy. flash ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=46823254&AlbumKey=5SpdKQ html5 ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Training-Wednesday-1712015/n-GRPrK/i-VvkLjxj/A

I don't. He can go to hell and stay there as far as I'm concerned.

Bail is a personal favourite of mine so i am a little biased on the issue, but i still think that he has a spot on our list for 3-4 years. His running capacity and his ability to play multiple roles are a major feature but he is also coming off the back of one of his most consistent and best seasons last year. I think he will play 18+ games and earn himself another contract

I wouldn't worry. Saty was rolling alongside him on his scooter asking him about his interest in the EPL and where he gets his hair done. Hard to chat and run a good trial at the same time

Why is there a thread on this dog, he is lower than the dirt on Tom scullys boots

Jordies stats are misleading - check out his handball to kick ratio and his long kicking ratio's. And the less we say about goal kicking the better !!! He is too scared to kick and holds up play to handball which upsets our fluency moving forward. Nothing wrong about his desire & commitment but IMO his disposal is too poor to be in our best 25. Happy to proven wrong !!

Such a pleasant way to start a day, reading up on Saty's fanboy butthurt rants over a cup of tea on a Friday morning. Carry on, lads.

Also stoked by JKH, could be an exciting year for him!

I'm assuming the back half of that list came in very close to eachother, so while I don't like that Tyson and Jetta came in late, it may still not be worth getting concerned about. More disappointed in Kent, Michie and particularly Garland. At this rate, Garland doesn't make my team.. Wrapped for Grimes, excited to see his return to form this year.

Absolutely - 100%. Was rarely beaten last year. If he stays injury free, will play all games.

It's going to be an interesting 3-4 years in evaluating the Clark trade. Geelong has gone in with high risk, high reward in Clark, who at is best is clearly the best player in the deal, and someone who if fit for long enough could help keep Geelong in premiership contention. Melbourne has taken the most proven, durable and consistent player in the deal, in a position and playing style the side desperately needs. We aren't in position to take too many punts on players and it's a definite upgrade over our other running backmen, even if he does spend time in the middle. And Collingwood has furthered its 2015 stealth tanking mode with the acquisition of a genuine dud. Wins all round.

All I can say is thank christ there are other members of this board who are able to attend training sessions and give informative and unbiased reports. Those are the ones I read these days. Reading the 'other' report is like Tim Robbins wading through the sewer to escape prison in The Shawshank Redemption, except the sewer is full and if you jump in you risk drowning in amongst all the turds. I choose not to do it.

He's on a roll.

If I lived in Melb my oath I would be telling him (Jordie) his short comings. Love your report Saty but "put themselves through hell both physically and mentally" give your head a wobble !! Hell is beating cancer or living through childhood abuse not being on an AFL list for 5 years & getting paid a Motza to live out your dreams.

I am so excited about the JKH boy and the signing of Frost. Huge pick up! Magnificent recruiting......finally!

No we are notBig difference between hitting targets at training and AFL gameday when intensity goes through the roof. Simple fact is Mckenzie has very poor disposal. Unless he improves that dramatically he will be gone at the end of the year.

I think Jordie's disposal is better than he is(n't) given credit for. Yze and Travis Johnstone had some shockers as well, it happens. Make or break year for him and I am in the minority camp that believe it will be make.

McKenzie has always had high endurance, just hasn't had a consistent run at it. Instead he's had to build his form in the VFL and then work in to the AFL team and then find his match fitness. That's not an excuse that will turn you from a spud to a gun, but it can be the difference between inconsistent fringe player and consistent role player. I still think he can be an effective tagger if we wish to use him in that role. All he needs is a 10% improvement in finding and using the ball which can come from consistent footy. The issue for him is Crossy finished just behind him and can be just as effective as a lock down tagger whilst also having neater skills and finding more ball. A depth tagger probably isn't a list requirement but McKenzie will give his all for Casey and maybe Crossy finishes at the end of this year and McKenzie is back to being a required best 22 player. I wouldn't give up on him just yet. Being out of the rehab group and getting in repetitive sessions kicking the ball can't hurt.

This would probably be McKenzie's first full pre season, I'm not sure he's ever done a pre. From my memory he's always been in the rehab group at this stage of the year. Maybe people should remember this before writing him off.

JKH finishing 21 seconds after T-Mac is a brilliant result for a second year player. Positively rapt for the kid, he's clearly worked his ass off since last season ended, both on weights and endurance. Have a feeling he'll hit the ground running from round 1.

With out being there you would find that less that a minute would have covered the players mentioned. Some players are elite runners at 3km to get with in 1 minute of these guys doesn't mean you are less fitter than them it just means they have the capacity to run at a higher speed for the 3km. Lets face it a 3km time trial is to monitor your own progress not you against the team, I'm sure we will have a much fitter Tyson and Jetta and everybody else than we had last year.

Also for what it's worth Gary Ablett is not in the top 15 at Gold Coast time trials.

This is the most stupid thing I have read in a while.

I agree. His sort of repeat, gut running capacity is absolutely crucial to the Roos game plan and as has been the case already he remain part of Roosy's team. I agree he has limitations but i reckon he is underrated.

I agree with this, I reckon his biggest asset will be his ability to work hard both ways and sustain his run. More importantly he is able to spend time in the midfield and have the running capacity to do this. Give him a couple of years and I see him as an outside wingman, him on one side Stretch on the other

I agree he offers more to the side than McKenzie. He's more versatile and played that hard running half forward well last year. His kicking is still a concern for me. If he can perform consistently well this year again, then yes, he'll have surprised me. Roos has utilized Bail's strengths very well to date.

This is my smokey for 2015 - I think he'll be okay.... Will improve outta sight, because he's got good coaches behind him and takes feedback very, very well.

It's hardly our unique proposition...I would think on the whingers ladder we would be way down the list. Carlton would probably head it with Essendon by a mile, were in great form when Ratten & Knights were in charge. Essendon now whinge about anything, everything & anybody they see as out to get 'em including there own supporters and they boo their own players (Stanton) consistently. Carlton just can't help whinging, it's endemic. The Pies are not bad at it either, Eddie is one big whinge and the Tiges are set up for a big whinge fest in 2015.

It's harder than last year, but it's still pretty simple to identify those in the gun. Players currently out of contract at the end of 2015: Jamar (UFA), Garland (RFA), Trengove, McKenzie, Howe, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Toumpas, Pedersen, Salem, Kennedy-Harris, Hunt, Cross, Bail, Riley, Harmes ®, King ® At this stage Howe, Gawn, Toumpas, Salem and JKH are the only ones that I would guarantee another contract. Potential retirees/ free agents: It's likely that Cross will retire at the end of the season. I can see it getting increasingly difficult for Garland to get a game ( =[ ), especially given that he isn't burning up the track so far this pre-season. May look at free agency or even retire. Same boat as Garland for Jamar, would expect that Gawn (or possibly spencer) will have taken the number 1 ruck role by the start of the 2016 season. Trengove's foot may never recover properly (worst case scenario) Potential delistees: As they will be out of contract the likes of Mckenzie, Fitzpatrick, Pedersen, Hunt, Bail and Riley will need to show why the should stay on the list. At this stage my prediction is: Cross (ret), Garland (FA), Mckenzie (del), Fitzpatrick (del) Jamar, Trengove, Bail, Pedo, Hunt and Riley to get 1-2 year deals Howe, Gawn, Toumpas, Salem and JKH to get 3 year deals.

What a terrific effort by Mitchell White beating home an experienced player and professional trainer like Lamumba. With that deadly left foot, decent height/build, and impressive running ability he certainly ticks a few boxes. Let's hope he can play!

I think you're overselling him there. He's an ok tagger with questionable disposal. Cross is better. Also that game where Ablett was negated had just as much to do with Garland holding Ablett back at stoppages as Jordie's tagging.

Bernie has quite a rude head with all his hair shaved off.

The gap between T-Mac and Tyson was 1 minute. The gap between Tyson and Petracca was about 25 seconds. The gap between Petracca and Garland was 30 seconds. EDIT: Frost actually finished five seconds before Garland.

And Scully is consistently at the top of GWS's time trials. Just sayin'.

This is his first full pre-season... managed to be awesome last year so i'm not worried at all!

Here we go again...

If Jordie is getting a game in 2015 then we have not developed or improved as a team as much as we all wish / need to.

You might be onto something there DL, It's a shame really, I remember 10+ years ago pretty much all the grounds had their unique nature and played slightly differently. Now they're all the same pretty much. Even the GABBA & WACA, although they still off a bit more bounce, after Day 1 he wickets there seem to flatten out. Melbourne & Adelaide from Day 4 the pitches slowed down a heap and the odd ball would keep really low. That seems to eb a thing of the past also. As for this match, just like Boxing Day, Australia don't deserve to win if they're going to waste the few chances we have on the flat wickets. We missed chances off Rahane & Kohli in Melbourne which cost us more then 50 runs to each batsman & the same thing has now happened in Sydney with Kohli & Rahul. Kohli wouldn't be such a thorn in our side if we could hold a ctach..... Oh for the days with Taylor, M. Waugh & Warne in the slips, S. Waugh at gully, Ponting in the point/cover area, Slater at mid on/off & McGrath down at fine leg!

FWIW, I live in France - though far from Paris. The tragedy of it all, the loss and brutality, the randomness of the killings of the policemen and of people who just happened to be in the building, has shocked and touched people deeply here. Even in the small town where I live, there have been gatherings, both organised and spontaneous. As well as affecting people on a personal level, the freedom of speech element can’t be underestimated. France is a place where discourse and argument is very much a valued part of the culture, and this feels like an attack on people’s very identity, the make-up of who they are. Difficult times, with a whole country in mourning and police with machine-guns in the railway stations.

BTW Don't think less of me because of the old lady. There is a campaign against begging ATM , so I was actually undertaking a civic duty

I signed up last SeptemberAnd i think everyone knows on here my feelings of the last 7-8 years.

In the oppressive humidity I went around Princes Park in a touch over 35 mins. Had to stop for a latte, helped a lovely young lady dress some blisters on her ankles and patted a couple of friendly poodles. Then I parked my car.