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It was, another good session of ball movement drills Frost, Garlett, King, White, Wagner in rehab group No VDB, JKH Tyson, Jetta and Kent all looking sharp hoping to convince coach Same with Watts The speed and accuracy of some of the ball movement good to watch Hogan and Brayshaw my standouts

Of course. Each time a filth player does one.

There will be no Watts. He will be too busy giving testimony before the Royal Commission.

Does Demonland ever have get togethers?You know, where you meet each other over a bong and share a half a can of Jim Beam or something? I want to be properly insulted in person.....by experts.

These things are always pretty rubbish. The experts tend to use their expert opinions to predict the same as the year prior. Out of these 18 experts, 7 of them predicted only 2 changes to the top 8, while 11 predicted only 1 change. In the past 20 years, 2 changes has occurred 8 times, and 1 or less changes has occurred zero times. So the majority of experts have predicted a scenario that hasn't occurred in the past 20 years.

I hav a fair bit to sey about al this but I can't be botherd.

Channel 7 M Stevens says yes Achilles soreness, likely to miss round 1 and Watts a starter for the game against the Weagles.

6 interchange and unlimited rotations in weeks three and four http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/afl-2017-preseason-comp-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-jlt-community-series/news-story/5f14f4d20a70a262ccc486c4d33d3219 Sounds like from Saty's report that AVB probably won't get up either. So it would be Johnstone, JKH, ANB, AVB out and possibly one or two of Bugg / Harmes / Weideman / Smith with some or all Watts, Jetta, Kent and Tyson in. The article on big Max in the Hun was interesting in that he openly talked about Goodwin being positively disposed to playing two rucks. It might however be a horses for courses approach and St Kilda at Etihad might not be a targeted game for that strategy....in which case maybe big Jake comes out this week.

You're from Perth aren't you Rob.

No masculinity crisis in Romsey Biffen. Only real men survive in these parts. Men with tinea that is masked only by a powerful flatulence and hidden under a hairy masculine gut torso.

I assume if we play our best 24 we'll go with: FB: Hibberd Oscar Hunt HB: Melky Tom MC Vince C: Lewis Oliver Stretch HF: Viney Hogan Brayshaw FF: Kent Weed Petracca Foll: Gawn Jones Salem Int 6 out of: J Smith, Spencer, Tyson, Watts, Bugg, Jetta, Harmes, ANB Possibles: Garland, Trengove, Johnstone, Hannan, Pedersen, Tim Smith? Will be interesting to see if we go with any new players in to the squad aside from the injured players coming back or Watts. If Watts and Kent aren't back in then I'd try Hannan or Tim Smith just to look at other forward options if Vanders is going to be out for a while.

It's hangover Monday so I don't intend getting too involved in a social issues debate Biz. However, while championing the female cause you make the astounding comment that in the court system, " female solicitors and barristers are thrown into a pit of 'live' verbal combat with an opponent (typically male given the gender disparity at the bar) - as a general rule, its a gladiatorial battle that they are simply not as equipped as men to succeed in". To my, admittedly simple mind, that is a vast and unsupportable generalisation that disparages women as having some sort of genetic intellectual/emotional/resilience weakness that disadvantages them in a contest with us blokes. I doubt any of the sheilas I know would agree with that and, in fact, I would consider it a dangerous suggestion to make.

Nut I'm so tied in a knot on this I don't know what to think. There are countless possibilitites 1) There is every possibility that Trump is just crazy and believed right wing conspiracies he read in Breibart 2) He was actually tapped and I've read countless ways that this could have been done both legally and by pushing boundaries. In which case Trump will reciprocate and tap whoever he pleases using the same means. 3 ) If he was tapped and it brought up nothing illegal but dropped key members of his team in it for meeting the Russians during the campaign. Not illegal but that is how they were caught out. 4) We will never know and there will be fake news slanting both ways that can never completely be believed or even ruled out 5) And the least likely of the above is Trump does have some evidence to come out

As my wife said today as a Hawks supporter but having a soft spot for the Dee's for obvious reasons, she is worried about the hype around MFC this preseason, 3 page articles on big Max, the hype around Petracca, Viney elevated to co-captain, the numerous interviews etc. now we are talking of a Jimmy tribute! As she points out the Saints are travelling nicely under the radar, yet for many experts they are rated to finish above us. Interesting the club hasn't tried to keep a lid on things, but that is balanced by the need to sell the product and the fact we are training at Gosch's near the Pies and most TV stations versus the Saints at Seaford. I loved Jimmy as a player but his tenure as president is a mixed bag. Yes He reduced the accumulated debt and fixed things financially but that has to be balanced with the football operations decisions he oversaw that plunged us into a 10 year abyss that few clubs have ever experienced. The appointment of Cam Schwab as CEO and Chris Connelly as Footy manager after he had missed the coaching job to a novice in Bails. A recipe for trouble. And that is how it transpired. The way Bails was dispatched from the club after 186 and advice from GLyon vs C Schwab getting the full honours and payout always sticks in my throat. I think Jim had too much faith in certain MFC people that they would work tirelessly for the greater good of the club and that they had the ability to make it happen. We have learnt since that they had very limited ability. Great MFC icon but His legacy is a mixed one lets be honest.

Would have thought that if Gawn wins the brownlow we make finals.

After the hard work he put in off the field to keep our club afloat, Jim Stynes will be a huge part of anything we do going forward, whether we acknowledge it or not. His chapter will never close. Great article, too.

We should be fighting for one of the lower spots in the eight. I think any better than that is overly optimistic.

A real Angus Brayshaw type.

I'm just picturing the Martin's at the Hawthorn Family Day.

My mate Jacko reckons 50 shades of gray is just the first 50 days of sodom rewritten to include a billionaire.

Somewhere between 0 and 22 wins. btw 1-18 on the ladder. Someone had to do it surely?

No it hasn't, only by you and a couple of others on here, I have watched him since October, and the only difference I noticed was at the Intraclub where he sat back

The Gat........ I could only dream of living there...as it is I live under the freeway at the end of spencer st hoping BBO will come....one day..... and take me away to Romsey....to the Manor.

Interesting the way the govt bags the Gat and says it's an outdated model that has done a disservice to its residents for a number of years and is overdue to close. And yet the govt has granted the Gat permits to be a rooming house for many years and has done sfa to help it's clients find alternative accommodation. Me thinks they've turned a blind eye to their plight. The concentration of 'down and outs' in one privately funded place has saved the govt quite a sum in the past. Now they appear to be crowing on its death bed.

Its not fare al youse intelectewals torking about stuff that we ordnry parsons jest dunt underpants.

So he didn't say much?

Jeffy is fine, was running freely chasing kicks from Frost, hence telling me was fine when he did it, he has 3 weeks and he was zipping around today Wagner was also back running at mearly full pace Frost is another one who gives nothing not sure what issue is BenKen did whole session same with Viney Got to welcome Mr Whelan back, was watching training, been in a good paddock Watts was Watts still think it was his effort in Intraclub

I'm certain Watts will play this weekend

I'd also play cautious with Jack Viney if there is any sign tenderness in his (previously) broken hand. We know exactly what we will get from Jack, and there's no point taking even the slightest risk with such an important player when there are no premiership points up for grabs.

I don't think my argument falls down. I'm saying Trump beats an often misleading and false media at their own game. He gets his own news out first. Who knows if its factual, completely misleading or if he even beliefs it himself.

I like to pretend that this isn't a possibility. It's the only way I can continue watching football.

It's ok BBO. I am here to save the day:

Given he has played both JLT games to date, ANB will likely stay in the side now that JKH's out, AvB's apparent injury, and Kent's fitness being in question for Round 1. To be honest, I'm not unhappy that ANB will be given the opportunity. I rate him, not sure why, but just think there's something there. And PF, there will still be room for Watts, presuming he gets a gig this weekend.

It should cheer you up that we've already had better than mild payback for the '88 grannie - that was in 1990 when we knocked them out of the first week of the finals ending their attempt at three in a row. (If only we'd gone on with it instead of losing the next week, we'd have full payback.)

I reckon he looks a bit like Brian Dixon I only hope he plays in more premiership sides...

I've always felt the cap should have some element of reward for player development and retention. Such that if a player, say, is drafted by the club or is with the club by a certain age, after a given number of years that player can be offered x% of their contract outside of the basic cap. And so forth on a sliding scale for years of service at the one club. I've never seen a monetary figure given for the cost of developing an individual player, but I hate to see clubs lose out on such an investment so easily.

He is not only a clearance machine, he is tough both physically and mentally.

Well the context was usually poured from paper cups, or refilled beer cans. Charming. Most dangerous place at the ground was the visitors' race, where as Team Manager in 1979 under Big Carl, I was warned to not stand there watching the game.

You should have taken my advice and chilled Biz, because having fired your shot you then had to expose yourself as just another weak debater who is left with nothing but the most base argument of all - personal attack.

I just watched the video of king and Robbo debating melbournes chances, take a look it's good for a laugh, robbo looks like he got his shirt out of a dumpster and even says Jamie bennell was good in the back line last year, think he got him mixed up with Jetta its on herald sun website when you go to max gawn article

Jon Ralph is the type of guy to bet $100 on Black Caviar for the place. he never gets it right and he belongs on SEN for that. mid season there will be a few who try to get on the Demons bandwagon but I hope not too many. the Pharisees and oracles never saw the Bulldogs coming, never saw Leicester,Cronulla,Brexit or Trump. glad to be under rated at this stage of the year. we will finish fourth or higher in my opinion.

I feel a need to be realistic here. Lets look at the top teams. Hawthorn, Swans, Dogs, West coast, Geelong, Adelaide, Giants. Something massive would have to happen to get those guys out of the top 7 positions. Huge Home ground advantage for 5 of them. Even the teams in so called decline ( Geelong, Hawthorn) have topped up with free agency....and I cant see them falling very far, if at all. But lets say one or even TWO of them has an unexpected crash somehow. I cant imagine that happening but its possible. So, if we say optimistically that that is the top 5 - 7 ( that I doubt we will be breaking into) then its a bun fight between St Kilda, Melb, Collingwood, Richmond, North, Power and (I hate to say it) Essendon for the last 1 -3 positions. Stkilda will be expecting to get there no doubt, Power would be expecting that too, Collingwood always expects and is a always a possibility. Essendon with so many guns back etc cant be discounted. North and Richmond less likely but they wouldn't be considering themselves out of it either. I can see a crazily close season with teams regularly knocking off teams above them. If plenty goes right and we win the close ones Im gonna say 7th. If not 10th.

I'm with Deestroy All on this, from what I've heard there is more to it than just bad training habits.

Reminds me of Jack Trengove 2010-2011.

If Tom McDonald's elite they've obviously decided kicking's a minor skill.

Only on demonland would there be a live ladder for the JLT series... Makes me cringe all sorts.

Don't know for sure, but I'd guess that all these have played in finals, except for Jack. I'd also guess that there wouldn't be too may No 1 picks whose team hasn't played in finals for 10 years. Jack would be one of the top half-dozen current players in the AFL for games played without playing in a final. And most teams that get No.1 picks are in the finals again with 3 or 4 years; Melbourne being the outstanding recent exception. Just about every other club has had a finals appearance during Jack's career. Jack is probably unique in that he walked into a crap team that has, by and large, stayed crap for 8 years. And mostly as a KPF, who depend on their teammates getting the ball to them. They're not like an in-and-under mid who gets first hands on the ball. In-and-under mids can do really well in a crap team. But very few KPFs who have played for 8 years in a crap non-finals team have done much. The best & most successful KPFs - and this goes back a long way (think Hudson, Wade, McKenna) - have had stellar midfields pumping the ball at them, often with precision. Jack for most of his career has played with one of the consistently worst midfields in AFL history (thankfully this now seems to be changing). So to the smart question: "Name me a year other than 2016 in which Watts has been any good" ... Name me a year other than 2016 in which MFC has been any good. (not surprisingly, there's a relationship). Conversely, in the last 8 years, how many KPFs have done well in teams that have been worse than ours? Oh, and 2 tackles per game is pretty good for a KPF. I looked this up a few years back, CBF looking it up again now. But I recall then that it was better than Buddy, better than Cloke (even after his one good year), pretty close to the Riewoldts. KPFs simply don't seem to tackle that much, for whatever reason. Or was Watts supposed to overcome all the other deficiencies of all the teams he's played in? No wonder 'some' are disappointed.

And how good is it to see Roughy in full swing? Colours aside, here's a man that would've gone through hell, like man, many others in less profile positions than him, but his fight and determination has seen him get back to the top of his game. An inspiration.