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Robbo presented another view? Well yeah, if a subjective, wholly biased Essendon supporter using blatant lies and mistruths to present an "opinion" that he's been instructed to present by high-ranking Essendon fans who hold senior positions at News Corp is your definition of presenting another view, sure. You're well within your rights to not consider that rubbish. Personally I'll take the side of ASADA, WADA, the Swiss High Court and the Court of Arbitration for Sport who all agreed these players are convicted drug cheats, over the gutter journalism of a drunk. And I have no doubt there are people who have fallen for the systematic, media-driven "poor players" narrative. I'm very relieved the overwhelming majority see right through it (and I'm certainly not getting my statistics there from the "pack mentality" of Demonland).

Frankly this makes Jobe's inaction, as a leader and captain of that young list, where newly drafted players were looking up to him for guidance and leadership, all the more shameful. The endless "good guy" narrative wore thin years ago. It's reminiscent of the endless anti-Trump media campaign in the US. People saw through it and got tired of being told how they need to think and behave, what is acceptable and what isn't. Just as people see right through the mindnumbingly biased pro-drug-cheat propaganda that's been pedaled by brown-nosing journalists desperate to curry favour with AFL HQ and maintain their cushy media accreditations. And for the record, I was not pro-Trump. Merely drawing a parallel that people are getting fed up with the media telling us how to think. I would struggle to find a single non-Essendon supporter who doesn't see through the rubbish that Robbo is pedalling. The damage he's done to his own and News Corp's reputation (if gutter journalism is a reputation you can even damage) is incalculable.

i'd just like one player to come out and say unequivocally and simply 'i/we did the wrong thing, i/we were guilty' instead of the spin that is so much part of life these days. i'm not holding my breath.

So they know how to back winners. last time I checked, it was a free country and people were allowed to hold their own views and opinions. Whether or not I agree with them does not make them or their products 'suck'. It is perhaps this type of holier-than-thou attitude that led all of those who have been told they suck for holding a belief to rise up and put Trump in the White House? i have always had excellent experiences with New Balance, and would welcome them back.

That should be "eat yourselves alive" shouldn't it?

The NB running shoes are fantastic. Hoping the 70% is back next year to buy another pair.

Bollocks. Have bought plenty of gear from them and the quality is no different from Nike or Adidas. The Melbourne windbreaker jacket has been one of my favourite purchases of the year. Never thought I'd wear it anywhere but the footy, but I wear it pretty often.

Richmond - the gift that keeps on giving.

I'm trying to see your point of view on the topic but is this your main point of contention? That ASADA have fabricated evidence or rigged the system to find the players guilty? At no point has any player accused ASADA of fabricating evidence. No player has ever denied lying to interviewers about their off-site injections. If ASADA were inventing evidence to find them guilty, would every player and their pet dogs not be screaming about this to the media? Would there not have been a reference to such an accusation in any of the multiple court cases over the years? And would the media narrative not be slightly more substantial than, "they were all duped, but they're all really great blokes"? I'm not saying ASADA are infallible; I think they've been made to look fairly incompetent throughout this entire saga, largely due to the endless obstacles and roadblocks put in place by both Essendon and (more discretely) the AFL. Not one party involved with the AFL has made the process easy for them, obfuscating at every turn (not to mention tip-offs to destroy evidence before investigators had a chance to reach Windy Hill).

It is written on the form Saty. Unless the players can't read or ASADA tampered with the forms in a mass conspiracy then that is what was asked. You are still yet to say why you don't trust them with a reasonable reason. They aren't perfect but they are a he'll of a lot closer than the AFL or any alternative.

Here is a statement from ASADA'S website. Athletes must declare any substance used in the last seven days including any substances for which they have a current and valid Therapeutic Use Exemption. Not declaring use may affect results management and have adverse consequences for the athlete.

Robbo presented an incredibly biased view without any basis in fact. My view is also not from following any pack, it is from someone who was once under the WADA code before ASADA even existed. I have an understanding of what is expected, what the rules are, and how the whole thing works. The bias spouted by much of the AFL media and the AFL itself is embarrassing misinformed rubbish. The AFL industry are decades behind the times on this and it shows. The whole anti WADA commentary is ridiculous in the extreme and is doing far more damage than good. The only thing that has stopped me from turning from the game is that the AFL actually respected the 12 month bans without too much fuss (although there was quite a bit). Much more and I was gone, no matter how good the future looks for the dees. Time for the AFL industry and it's supporters to grow the f up.

Thats what was presented to the public as his reason to not particpate.

just read the article. Quite interesting. Certainly offers up a side to Goody I wasnt familiar with. He's been far from perfect, but has been driven. He at least learns from mistakes , his and others. He's no Saint, in fact he's now a Demon. I think he'll have a great connect with the players. I liked what little I saw of his coaching style early last year. I'm hopeful. 2017, bring it on.

As others have pointed out, Vince is the one who I would put as the most similar given his age, (comparative) form and that he would also be expected to be a "best 22" player. I reckon Vince should be at least around in a casual way like McDonald, unless of course his injury has meant he'll start at normal time or later. Spencer isn't anywhere near the 22, Melksham hasn't trained for a year so of course he's straight in (like Hibberd also), TMac isn't actually training as such, he's just there which he probably should be anyways as a member of the leadership group, likewise with Jetta and Jones. I'm not too worried about H, yet... He would still have his base of fitness and that's what most of this first few weeks is about. I think his obstacles and priorities will be finding some touch and some confidence so that will happen more once they break the footy's out. That's the time to keep a close eye on him IMO. Reckon we'll be able to gauge his commitment once the "real" stuff starts, rather than see him running a few casual laps.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-12/tiger-board-battle-flares-again Another board challenge. They never fail to amaze.

I'm staggered no-one has posted this on here yet. Extremely deserving recipient of this award is Neale Daniher. A truly remarkable man who is walking a horrible journey, and doing it with dignity. Well done, Neale. And congratulations on the award!

I have posted on here before that i know players who write down the serial numbers and take photos of the bottles of any substances they take for their records, this is strongly encouraged by their management and taught at under age level. i find it extremely hard to believe that 34 Essendon players didn't know exactly what they were taking, if they were lied to that's a different thing but the evidence and results in the cases doesn't at all point to that being the case, it points to a whole club effort to muddy the waters to the point no one can be sure what happened, and hope that means no one can be found guilty. lets remember that if any 1 of the 34 players could have produced compelling recorded evidence that they took something other than TB4 they would have been found not guilty, but clearly they had absolutely no idea, or they did and they hid it, either way it's the same outcome, they miss a year of footy and they're known as drug cheats, Jobe has handed down the brownlow, so i'd say they've served their time.

If you're going to take that attitude then it's clear nothing can convince you of anything, ever. I see your game. You want a job sitting on the AFL drug tribunal!

For all professional sportspeople who are subjected to ASADA/WADA testing, it could not be clearer.

Saty we have been through this before. The question is simple, what have you taken, it includes anything as what they are looking for is an explination of any anomalies in the test results in order to let the players off. there is no reason you would not tell ASADA about any thing you have outside of food as it actually covers you, it isnt use to ban you. In fact the only reason not to tell ASADA is if you know it I banned. hmmmmm

Goodwin has never denied his mistakes; rather, has been upfront about his past shaping him into the person he is today. Not just the Essendon saga but his gambling addiction beforehand. You can't seriously be comparing Goodwin's behaviour to repulsive ilk like Hird and his endless abdication of responsibility. As for being a "moral crusader" because I abhor drug cheats and performance enhancing drugs in sport? Well, now I've heard it all! I'd hate to think what label belongs to a person who'd prefer to sweep such unpleasantness under the rug and stick their fingers in their ears (other than 'AFL Integrity Department', of course).

And give it a couple of years and the AFL will bring the sun tanned one in from the cold. Maybe not as the Chief Integrity Officer but there will be a campaign to soften/ gloss over his image.

It usually takes too long to develop an effective ruckman from a young age. The last decade's most successful club ( the Tassie /Waverley Hawks) have a successful formula. They let other clubs groom them, then take them when they're mature. The ones that come immediately to my mind are Byrne, Salmon, Everett, MacEvoy, Ceglar...and several others..(remind me, please). We've done well with big Max.Let's do everything in our power to keep him on long contracts. I think Spencer is a good back-up, and I guess we're trying to develop Mitch King. I don't think the Scorps back-up guy,Declan Keilty) is tall enough. Perhaps Hawthorn's tactic is the way to go, rather than using early draft picks on 18y.o. beanstalks.

long live the forum

Under the cloud of derailing..Id just like to personally answer that throwaway glibness regarding the EFC ancestory of some of our lot.. Some wrongdoing has been done. Some have been penalised and now find themselves as Demons. Yep thats fine. Some other detail can be discussed Im sure elsewhere but Im sure if the FD consider the likes of Milkshake and Piggy to be handy acquisitions then I sincerely await with interest to watch them contribute. If Jackson and Roos judge Goody to be the 'right thing" for Melbourne . I have no issue. ( my issues invariably filter back to a topographic location with strong breezes ) I actually think Goodwin will be a good coach. I also think the Club has done its level best to situate all and sundry in place to make it happen Somewhere I read that Melbourne intend to play next season with a bit more flair. I saw some of this last NAB cup. Thought it marvelous but unlikely to be sustainable....at the time. I think that time is now here. Go Dees

Saty and similar ilk; Mines far from a pack thinking mentality. Dare I say i was among a handful from the beginning who urged and directed this be taken seriously. That's not to blow my own trumpet per se, just to put context on where I've been the whole time. The horse carrying any credibility for the likes of Robbo, Warner and a whole swag of others shot through long ago. As we have seen this past week, there's a lot in the Media with agendas and a fair slice of the media itself bias. Some of us just think for ourselves.

Suggs says no.

arent they just a marvel of a club.

Well they only need to wait 6 months to witness yet another wasted season.

A very genuine interview. I have been slow to warm to Goodwin but articles like that take me a long way to being a big fan. He has more in common with Roos than some think: a personal journey of self-awareness/self discovery (via different methods), coaching is about understanding the players and managing them fairly but individually and trusting the people round him. He highlighted the experience around him: Jackson, Misson, Viney, Taylor, Mahoney, McCartney. Must say, that is as good as any off-field team in the league, if not the best in every role, certainly up there with the best team! As each day passes, I look forward to the 2017 season more and more.

Exactly - the real miscreants haven't paid the full price unlike the players

Doc Reid still at the club

Nice article! I am so pleased to get links like this on Demonland when on a remote tropical island ? (but with wifi)! Thanks for posting!

I just hope we have a descent away jumper with no white in it

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/simon-goodwin-talks-about-the-challenges-in-his-life-that-have-shaped-the-person-he-has-become/news-story/6fe13b4f0b2f1dac8e9c08c5463f814b This is what builds culture. Teaching young men how to be true to yourself and accept responsibility. I can see why the players love him.

my original post contained similar wording, but I did an edit because I thought it was too predictable.

The MFC seem to be assembling quite the formidable social basketball team . . .

I would have thought they would be bubbling with excitement at the 2 new marquee signings, but no, appears some are not satisfied with the upcoming 2017 flag.

Hope they stay, the 70% Discount last year was outstanding, and encouraged me to go back and get other stuff,

Just opened this thread with some trepidation. I can only say what a delight it is to just read training reports and tidbits and see how much great info posters collect, especially Saty. Thanks folks. I'm getting a clear picture that just about all players have come back in great nick. They heeded Roos challenge at the BnF '...success starts now - not when preseason begins...' It bodes very well!

I always smile when I read about how much Jeff Farmer still loves the club. Still my all time favourite player after all these years.

I'm absolutely sick of it. It's bullying. It derails threads. There is going to be a no tolerance policy about it. I'm not going to be playing favourites about it either. If I see it or it is brought to my attention and espcially if it's from one of you usual suspects, and you know who you are, then you are gone. It might be a week, it might be a month, it might be a year, it might be forever. I do not like to do this and I hate that it has come to this but for some of you your time on Demonland is almost up. Last warning for everyone. Play nice. Play the ball and not the man. If you don't like a poster or his/her opinions then scroll past their posts or use the ignore feature. If you continually bait certain posters you will be banned. No more warnings. If you continually abuse certain posters you will be banned. No more warnings. If you derails threads you will be banned. No more warnings. I might miss things and it might seem unfair that this one gets dealt an unfair hand well that's just bad luck. If you don't do the crime, you won't do the time. I'm building a wall around Demonland and the Richmond fan forum is going to pay for it. Last warning starts now. THESE ARE EXCITING TIMES AHEAD FOR OUR CLUB. IT WILL BE A SHAME IF YOU ARE NOT HERE TO PARTICIPATE.

I hope he's finally gotten over the tragic loss of Classius Clay.

I'm not a fan but if H does make it back into a near full strength team it will be a good thing as he'll be playing better than some very good players. Very strange situation. Nobody sees him hit in the head in the two games he's supposed to be concussed, he declines to play when cleared fit by the medical staff last year when we are pushing for finals in both teams and now having missed a the majority of 2016 and with his position in question he declines to come back to training when other senior players do. Doubt that will impress Goodwin. I'm not sure what the rules are now about final year injuries and payouts but I'd be wary if I was the match committee. Hope Mahoney is all over it. To me it smells. It doesn't look like a guy dedicated to the cause.

Can't wait for this guy to be captain. Jack was a guest of my sisters for Stakes day along with Jesse, Christian and a couple of the Geelong boys. She speaks highly of Jack. He arrived 15 minuets early for any interviews, got involved with everything that was asked of him and then sent her a thank you message the following day. Just a straight up professional.

New Balance sucks, the CEO and board are big Trump supporters

Didn't you hear? Their coach said they're going to play finals!

It was a one off 'stuie'. Lets wait and see how the figures look at the end of their 2017 season.