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Didn't hang around for too long and grabbed a coffee at one stage so might've missed a few players. Not sighted: Jones, Viney, Garlett, Lumumba (?retired), Hibberd (?icing his knee), Vince, Lewis (?collecting his pay cheque), Gawn, Tyson, Watts, Oliver (?sunburnt), Weideman, ANB (?drove to Casey), J Smith, Trengove, Pedersen, Hulett, Garland (?traded himself to Collingwood) Rehab group of Vanders (only briefly before heading in), Tom McDonald, Melksham, Mitch King and JKH. Those last 4 spent a fair bit of time hitting up targets to short leads. Melksham can kick with penetration on both sides of his body. Doesn't have the smoothest action but decent accuracy. JKH is a nice kick. Tom McDonald is still Tom McDonald. The young ruckman isn't the worst kick of a footy but it isn't his strength either. Hogan trained and looked fit but didn't stay for the running. Pat McKenna had an ankle (I think) looked at then walked back to the rooms without trouble. The rest did the running after the session. In terms of body size/shape I'd say Hunt has strengthened up in the legs yet again. Brayshaw looks trimmer. Kent doesn't look bad in person, just nuggety. Petracca looks very strong. Billy Stretch and Wagner a little stronger. Mitch White looks lean. Maynard is a strong lad. Salem looks strong with good muscle definition without being hard fit, I'd say he's at a good spot given his illness. Drills were mainly focused on quick ball movement. A quick kicking drill from the goal line out of the back 50 then back in. The highlight was a Hogan turn and laced delivery to Petracca on a bursting lead. A quick handball drill up one of the wings had the boys working hard. Then they did a cone to cone kicking drill with the ball going in a criss cross pattern with players kicking on their left for the cones where the ball went to the left - that alone was nearly enough to make me cry, seeing the non preferred foot getting equal usage. The repeat runs were mainly 200m goal to goal sprints. With some longer stuff mixed in. I only watched a short amount before leaving the players to it. But they were mainly in 3 groups. Kent and Frost started together in one group of Kenty was spacing big Frosty. Then Kent, Tracc and Kennedy joined up whilst Frost and Spencer were together. Kenty was really putting in. Tracc was battling away but I think he's giving it his all, he's just going to take some time to build up. He doesn't look overweight he just looks like a very powerful and strong athlete not suited to endurance running. Ben Kennedy is more of a worry, he was dropped off the back a fair way. I'm just not sure he has any kind of tank. The main group was Bugg, Stretch, Harmes, Hunt, Brayshaw, Wagner, White and I think Oscar, Jetta, Salem. They were all running well. Buggy probably the best of them but they were sticking as a group and encouraging each other. Lastly, Max Rooke is a reassuring presence. I didn't see him do anything specific in terms of coaching but I just appreciate his general demeanour.

Excellent report from DeeSpencer covered all the drills King is recovering from ACL so his kicking is all over the place watched him do a couple of perfect hard low flat passes then horrible floater, lot of rust to knock off Answers to a couple of questions For those admiring Billy Stetch's physique, has put on 4kg of muscle, in one drill he knocked Trac off the ball much to delight of Macca They wear watches not fitbits And the weights in offseason, just functional weights to keep muscles ticking over, no throwing big weights around Hogan was standout today bouncing around, one little incident down freeway end, they were doing bring ball out from 50 and back in, usually the 'defenders' stopping the ball coming out just man the mark so to speak, Hogan caught Oscar Mc unawares stripped him of the ball and slammed through a goal, followed by a ridiculous chest bumping celebration with Dean Kent Goody joined in the laughter telling Hogan and Kent they weren't playing something league footy now, assume some junior league in WA Then took.Oscar aside and spoke to him and showed him why Hogan had got him and reinforced 100% concentration even at training, great bit of on the spot coaching On that, Maynard is a sponge, which is great to see, constantly asking questions of coaches other players

Have you noticed if they speed up when running past Saty? Curious.

Hoges does look good. Petracca is friggin massive

He's saying that McKernan isn't best 22 as forward/ruck, so if we are wanting to pick up someone as back-up for Gawn that won't be best 22, that we're better off picking a genuine ruck, which is what Minson is. Not an interpreter, Stuart, just a bloke that a) can understand what someone in meaning with their post, and b ) not someone that's always looking for an argument.

I swear those hill climbs get steeper each year.

I get that we need to get fitter and need more endurance - but running until we topple over the end of the earth is a little too much

It's all so very convenient for the AFL to not have to make a decision on the Whitfield case at this particular time. With so much of the GWS Giants draft strategy based on academy selections, for the AFL to ban them from a round or two of this year's draft (as it has done in the past with clubs that offended against its rules) would play absolute havoc with the system. This year's draft is already tainted as a consequence of the decision made earlier this year on Essendon's draft position after 12 of its players were banned as drug cheats. Now, with the Giants holding second pick and with the delays giving them immunity from possible draft sanctions the draft is further compromised. This is the way the AFL operates.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbourne-coach-simon-goodwin-says-jesse-hogan-max-gawn-are-leading-the-way-20161108-gsl0ec.html Goodwin: "He {Jesse} ran a personal best time, he's come back with his body in elite condition. You know he's really set himself for a really strong season." Jesse on the rampage will be a sight to behold! Goodwin: '...big man Max Gawn was also keen to continue his improvement and was now in the club's top five best trainers...' This reminds me on an article on mfc website a few weeks ago where he said 'Jordan Lewis didn't need to go 3rd man up anymore, he (Max) had it covered'!!! (paraphrasing from memory). Love his confidence and the ownership he takes for his game. Max going up a notch or two will be stupendous.

How's Salem looking/gearing up? If he manages to have a full pre-season and really improve his running capacity he could be huge for us.

It's the Goodwin Effect. Something the Head Coach picked up from his previous employer...

Would love to know Billy's secret...

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-09/simon-goodwin-backs-jesse-hogan-max-gawn-to-rise-to-new-levels.mobileapp apparently hogan setting PB times. Can't wait for footy to start again

I love training reports. How is Sylvia going? Is this the break out year?

Work was productive for a while...And now begins the constant refreshing throughout the morning awaiting live reports of houses being trained down and bodies being bulked up....

I think a lot of the surprise on here is from what we have experienced in the past, we are now building the players properly, the guys that need muscle get it, the guys who need to be leaner are trimmed down, and Roos message at the B&F actually sank in so everybody has worked their backsides off over the pre season if they could I am on evening shift at work for my trouble, so will be there Friday, anybody want a particular player pictured, will try if you put it here

Watching the rehab group do short leads and kicks. Mitch King's kicking is pretty darn average, 25, 30m kicks to a soft lead out in front and he's maybe hitting the target 1 out of 5

Have tried to take a panorama photo of the ground. Had to shrink it to upload it, hopefully the quality isn't too cruddy

Titus's take on it all   ( well the Charlie ) love this bit ""On the one hand, ASADA, WADA, the Court of Arbitration for Sport and the Swiss Federal Tribunal all say Jobe took a performance enhancing substance. Yet, he’s apparently a really good bloke, makes a mean coffee and a lot of people feel he didn’t take anything illegal. You can see why this is so difficult for the AFL Commission. Those things cancel each other out.""

I have spoken to someone who works in the Footy Department at Gold Coast and asked how Rooke was regarded there. He said he is a star and will be sorely missed. Thats good enough for me to be happy with him coming to the Dees.

If we had Minson, on VFL GF form he would be our 2nd in line.

Tom Mitchell was an absolute steal for pick 14, but make no mistake - the Hawks have paid a mammoth price to get O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery to the club, even though, in isolation, each of those trades didn't cost them too much draft pick wise. It seems to me that they misjudged/mishandled the Lewis situation in that they thought he would see out his contract on the basis that he would never ever elect to leave the club and that he would also back himself on his performance next year to earn one more year beyond that and then perhaps retire as a one club player. In short, they knew they needed to refresh their midfield group, but they factored in losing only one of Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis in order to obtain and then integrate Tom Mitchell and O'Meara into the midfield next year. Then, at the end of next season, they would be in a position to assess the importance of Lewis to the midfield group based upon: - Lewis' individual performance next year; - the performance of their midfield more generally next year; and - the availability of other elite mids next year, eg, Fyfe etc. BUT - Jordan didn't fall into line and he directed his manager to contact the mighty fighting Demons and the rest is history. It's a pity Carlton agreed to do the deal that enabled the Hawks to land O'Meara at the 12th hour because, absent that, the trade period would've been an unmitigated disaster for the club. We are the real beneficiaries of this trade period, not clubs like the Hawks. We entered it with a couple of used paddle pop sticks and came out of it with Lewis and Hibberd. And, bizarrely, still possessing one of the used paddle pop sticks. God bless Josh Mahoney.

The limited list allowed to train in the first couple of weeks of the preseason will be back in action this morning at Gosch's Paddock at 9.30am. Things remain at a low key at present but the observations of those who can make it out to the Paddock are, as usual, most welcome.

Cheers Billy. At least someone can comprehend a post.....

I put a pic up on Instagram, haven't got the tech ability to put here - if anyone can please do - I was quite surprised he looked really fit, instead of running laps, went off to run around the tan with Nev Jetta, so assume he wasn't meant to be there 'officially'. In the kicking drills was immaculate (as per usual)

Thanks for the reports guys

That's a great report thanks DS. I saw the last of the training, when they were doing the run-throughs. I also spotted Benny K dropping well off the pace, seemed to be really struggling. He was a leading light at trainings early in the year and started the season well, but then dropped away around June/July and somehow doesn't seem to have recovered. I hope he picks up again. I reckon he is a good little forward worth a couple of goals a game.

Dont know why Fyffe is pencilled in at the Hawks. If he had any sense he would come to the Dees and win a flag....

Ha I wish I could, off work with a bung wing so that's why I was able to come watch

You seem to be spotting them ok Redbeard. Thanks for the updates.

Havent we been travelling up to Maroochydore in past years for 7-10 days for training? It gives players a break from the monotony of Gosch's paddock, has reliable nice weather and offers a fan experience for Southern Qld fans....

you shouldn't drink before noon, redbeard

The AFL spend mega millions on 'staging' peripheral events eg draft night, Hall of Fame night, AA night etc and AFL CEO/Commission travel/overseas 'study' trips, and other marketing indulgences. The travel/accommodation budgets alone for those events would be staggering. Then add venue high, security, catering etc etc. Mega Millions!! So if the AFL need more money than NAB and other sponsors and TV rights to fund a minimum wage (approx $14,000 pp or $3.5m in total) then let it find the funds its own backyard! Then I for one might take the AFL and other people a bit more seriously when they say the game can't afford it or words to that effect. Here is something novel, let fans in to Women's games free for the first year and the AFL fund it by cutting back on their 'Events/Marketing' spend!! Give fans a taste of it so that next season they sign up as members (then the actual Clubs benefit) and pay to go to games.

Buckle up folks, it could be a long ride! http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/fears-lachie-whitfield-case-may-drag-on-for-years-20161108-gsku6f.html "The Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority has asked the AFL for every text message, email, document and record of interview from its Lachie Whitfield investigation amid fears the case is destined to become an Essendon-like saga, dragging on for years via the courts". The AFL should have handed over all the evidence in the beginning rather than 'negotiate' for months over 'key documents'. They just don't learn! Ironically, the AFL seem to have dug a deep hole for all concerned: 'What could have been a minor infraction in May last year has become a major conspiracy with the sports world watching to establish precedent'. Seriously, tho the AFL are looking increasingly incompetent as they allow their obsession with 'image' to override common sense!

Actually, the answer is yes and no. A number of posts on this thread have been deleted by the moderators mainly because they are either offensive, off topic or attempts to derail the thread. A couple of posters have received warnings. There will be bans of at least one month placed automatically on repeat offenders. That said, we can live with some lighthearted banter from time to time as long as it's in good spirit.

As a sideline to this whole controversy, it seems that Stephen Dank's defamation cases against the Nine Network have gone down the toilet* because the man failed to turn up to court/comply with orders - Case dismissed. Dank was ordered to pay Nine's costs of and incidental to each of the proceedings and I wish them the best of luck with that. * most likely the same toilet down which Essendon's drug records were flushed around four and a half years ago.

Declan had an interview with the Mebourne staff today about his draft prospects

Jeez I wish we'd move on from this need for players to wear Barrasi's number. Let players make their own history rather than constantly trying to relive something that happened 50 years ago. It's embarrassing. Give 31 to a random new player and stop trying to morph all our senior players in to a great of the past.

Leave.

...but they don't have to make a call on the draft. They were the ones that flagged the draft sanctions. They do have to make a call on the individuals involved though.

I am only addressing the question of where the money will come from - China, Northern Territory, NZ, Qld ( suns and brisbane in their early days ), GWS - the return on investment has been a negative. Some will argue shrewd investment for the future - others will say peeing money up against a wall. However there is a clear precedent of the AFL tipping money into loss making ventures with a plan ( in the hope) that there will a bigger payoff down the track. I don't see this as any different. As to the point that the AFL has to earn the extra - that has never been the way they operate. At no stage with the above ventures did they wait until the earned "more" before sinking money into them. The AFL has a huge pool money ( ever growing with the TV rights) and distribute it as they see fit. (as to your point about womens matches before the main games - I commented that I would like to see half the banal entertainment scrapped on grand final day and have the women's GF played before the big game)

The "who" is the AFL and the precedent is already there. The AFL has never been shy in pumping money into "start ups" .

Can't wait for Robbo to interview him in his typically ebullient way! So Max, remember that day down at Kardinia Park (2005) where I booted seven goals on you including a bag in the last quarter, to lead the Dees to a famous come-from -behind victory? Egan had a shot on the siren too from memory.

Will Minson. Demonlanders don't seem to agree, but he's a cheap backup that will be a good third-in-line ruck.

If the AFL have been trying to help cover up, ASADA should ban Gil and any other officials for four years as well.

Scene: AFL headquarters. Gil McLaughlin at his desk. He punches some numbers into his phone handset. GM: Mark? Come in here please. The door opens and Mark Evans enters. ME: Yes Gil? GM: These ASADA people are on our arses over this Whitfield thing. They want to see the report from our integrity department. ME: The integrity department? GM: Yes. The integrity department. ME: Right. (pause) The integrity department. GM: Yes. They want to see the report from the integrity department. ME: The report from the integrity department. Right. GM: We do have one, don't we? ME: The integrity department? Yes, of course we do. GM: Hmm. Yes. That's what I thought. ME: It's just that ... um ... GM: What? ME: Well ... do you know who heads it up? GM: Me? ME: Yes. Do you know who heads up the integrity department? GM: Well I thought you knew! ME: Me? GM: Well you're the bloody general manager of the bloody joint. You're the one who should know who's in the bloody integrity department! ME: Me? But they don't even report to me! GM: Well they sure as hell don't report to me! ME: Do they have an office? GM: They must have. When I took over from Vlad he gave me this thing next to the desk. See it? It looks just like a waste paper basket but it's got that sign on it. "Integrity department" it says. Anything for the integrity department, he said, file it in there. Next morning the guys from the integrity department will have taken it away. They do, too. Like clockwork. ME: Ah. Now I understand. GM: Good. So get me the bloody Whitfield report from the integrity department! ME: (thinks) That gives me an idea ... that Malaysian student who cleans the house reckons she's got a PhD in philosophy and ethics ... might be just the ticket ... ME: (aloud) I think I've just remembered where the integrity department is. Coming right up Gil!

Probably because they don't feel like the death threats, rape threats, being told they should just be grateful the men let them play their game etc.

There used to be a powerhouse club called Carlton and they embarked on a spree over a number of years buying talent where needed and rarely developing their own, consequently their President went on to say "Carlton don't rebuild", in essence referring to the fact that if they need to they will just buy in another player. They became lazy and failed to develop their own and didn't realise that their bottom tier were not up to it and that you can't be carried by a few names at the top. Hawthorn may fall in to the same trap if they continue to rely on poaching other club's talent and not developing their own, their drafting record over the last 5 years has been very ordinary and the older stars that have carried the club for so long are ageing and incapable of the same magic they once were. They have lost 1 and 2 in their B&F from last season and will in all probability lose 2 or 3 of their remaining stars at the end of the next season, will O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickers make up for them, who have they got coming through. Interesting times and this will tell whether they are going to stay on top or decline like Carlton. They have traded first round picks for this and next year, where is the talent coming from, remembering that their last influx of genuine talent came very early in the draft.