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Firstly - his efforts both in his desire to win the ball and without ball in hand are remarkable. ( please please please stay healthy). He is really frank about the team - "for too much of the game we played like a second rate team" What really impressed me was his own analysis of his game on the weekend ( see his interview) - second week back and underdone - you could somewhat forgive his rustiness - nope - there is no need for Roos to slam his wastefulness - he does quite a job on himself. "I had my colours lowered - I had opportunities and I stuffed them up".

I wonder if that's Jordan Gysberts of Cale Morton driving?

The posters that are going on defending him need to realize the negative posters don't expect him to crash every pack and out muscle every opponent... It is more than fair to expect him not to be constantly bumped off the ball, rag dolled and make half arsed tackle and marking attempts... JKH chases, tackles and bumps harder than Watts and he's prob 20kg lighter. The excuses need to stop.

Or if you keep dropping the pallets, running into the shelving or falling out the seat.

Jay Kennedy-Harris Is set to sign a 2 year extension. Will be made public in the not to distant future... Great work, lot of talent, good bloke.

Off topic but ManDee seems to be implying that Robbie was an outside player on the wing who shirked contests and flew for contested marks one-handed. Robbie Flower was one of the spindliest but nost courageous players of all time. Robbie played in a much tougher era of football & "went" when it was his turn. He was targetted by opposition thugs throughout his carrer. Thank God his evasive skills were sublime so the thugs seldom "caught" him. Two Hawthorn thugs did catch him in his last game. Robbie returned to the field with a fractured collarbone IIRC. I would be ecstatic if Watts showed the courage of Robbie Flower & one-tenth of his football ability.

Before I start, this is not meant to be a 'name drop'. Was fortunate enough to go into the rooms after Sunday's game. Of course the hope was we could sing the song with the boys after a victory, but that was obviously not to be. The main group which came out of the meeting was the back line group. Rawlings spent a long time talking to them very quietly. After a short time, some others trickled out of the meeting with the Coach, but no sign of JW. Just outside the 'cage' a Board member was talking to a woman - whose role I am unsure of - and asked "Where's Jack". I am assuming the question was relating to Jack Watts. The woman responded, "Roosy's kept him in for a bit of a chat". About 10 minutes later, Jack appears, bag in hand, hugs Mum and leaves. We left at the same time. The only consolation was the little girl outside the club room doors who presented Jack with a bunch of Easter eggs. It appeared Jack had not even had a shower. He looked pretty down, as did Roosy in the rooms. Make of this what you will, but I would not be surprised if it's in Salem, out Watts next week.

I rate Watts. He has class. What I don't rate is some of the relentless and inane criticism of him from certain of the keyboard warriors here.

I have hesitated posting anything about JW as i wanted to cool down a bit. On Sunday night i thought he needed to be dropped. Now that i have calmed down a bit, i think he needs to be dropped. I have never seen JW through rose colored glasses and from the beginning have agreed he needs to improve his physicality. That said I have been a great supporter of Wattsy and have defended him many times on Demonland. I expected the penny to drop last year when moved to the half back flank and again thought Roosy might find the key to getting him going. Perhaps he still will but i have to admit the signs are very bad. Watts was hopeless against the Eagles and i posted then i thought he was on thin ice. I only listed to the GWS game on the radio so not really sure how he went in that game. But he was truly woeful on the weekend. Other posters have given enough of examples of why but the one that resonates is Dawes running straight past him in the center of the ground to try (unsuccessfully) and get to a man on the wing. This was Watt's lack of effort and letting his team mates down writ large for all to see. And i'm sure Dawes was making a point by gusting a gut for what was a lost cause (though not for Watts if he had gone hard and early) and i'm equally sure his anger in the post match interview with Burgs was at least in part related to Watts lack of effort throughout the game. Jeez the Leading Teams model must cause Watts nightmares as surely his team mates will let him know their thoughts. There was another example and one that i don't think has been noted thus far. On the half forward flank at the city end (where i was sitting) Ablett had the ball and was running towards goal at right angles to where Watts was (JW was about 15 metres away and on the move). Watts had the perfect opportunity to absolutely pole axe Ablett and force a turnover. He wouldn't have been at any risk of getting hurt as he would have completely blind sided him. Instead he ran to Ablett at half pace, made a weak attempt at tacking which Ablett brushed off and pumped the ball into the goal mouth. My son, who is 11 nailed it later in the day when on another occasion he failed to commit to a tackle he said 'he is so hesitant'. I hate bagging players at the footy and rarely do it. I couldn't help yelling in frustration at him a couple of times. One such time was just after half time when i implored him to change the direction of the match and win it for us, as nothing short of that would have lessened my frustration with him. To be fair he improved his intensity and laid an excellent tackle at the Punt road half back flank on the kid with the white mop. But really too little to late. With Roos having so publicly made clear what his non negotiable are (the basic footy stuff) he has left Roos with little option but to drop him and i expect that is what he will do. Surely if he doesn't it will because Roos has given him an ultimatum and one last chance to turn things around.If he is dropped it will be for quite a long time i reckon and you have to wonder if he has the bottle to force his way back. So depressing. One more thing. I'm not being trite but comparing Watts to Trav is an insult to TrJ. Yes they both look alittle casual, yes both have sublime skills, yes trav wasn't overly physical but i rarely if ever questioned TJ's courage or commitment

Hey chap, Salem has played 2 games at Casey, 1 as a forward, he did bits and pieces in the practice games, but let's see him put five or six together racking up not only the possessions but his confidence, fitness and hardness

No it isn't. 1. The derivation of laconic is from the Greek "Lakinikos", meaning "Spartan-like". The Spartans were known for their terse speech. 2. The romanticism of the 'laconic Australian' was originally (and correctly) a person of few words. In fact it was someone who didn't need many words to be understood. If it has shifted, it is towards the characteristic of being 'laid back'. 3. The shift has never been to what the OP and others are suggesting, i.e. to a meaning of 'lazy' or 'uncommitted' (lackadaisical). In addition, using terse speech or being 'laid-back' are still positive attributes, unlike being 'lazy' which is definitely negative. Ignorance shouldn't just be accepted as 'change'. Really poor usage should be resisted, not encouraged. Which does still raise the question as to whether Watts is just 'laid back' or actually 'lazy' (i.e. lackadaisical).

You do if you're want to become the best forklift driver in the business.

I bet there were a few who wondered what game was being played...

Before I start I gotta say I have been a long time supporter of Jack Watts since he came to our club as No 1 Draft pick. I have met Jack and he is an extremely well mannered and very affable young person. He comes from a very good family background and he is a considered, ethical young man with high moral standards. So what you might say? And to those that do not care if a player is a good person or not just as long as they can play footy, well there are a lot of players who can play but are seriously flawed human beings. So be it! I hope Jack Watts is able to find some form and play good footy for the MFC.

THIS: Jimmy Toumpas: Jimmy played half-back and had 11 disposals in the first half of the game. He was solid and gave plenty of drive when he was on the ground, but he unfortunately received a heavy knock just before half-time, after backing back with the flight of the ball. Although he tried to come back on the second half, he was ruled out with concussion by the doctor, so he took little part after half-time. But he was a good contributor while he was on.

had this out on the weekend.asked people what they wanted to see. everybody replied similar, high marking.one on ones, the best players not being tagged,no rugby scrums. simple solution to all of that,i agree with KB,no interchange,4 on bench with "once off not back on" interchange came to this game because players who were taken from the ground uninjured and then a 3rd injury made for complaining coaches and press. the interchange bench was extended for the same reason. thats the reason we dont see the great players,marks 1 on ones,

Watts needs to doigt alus extracta

Gary, wife and son were at the game on the weekend. Son got his membership scarf, they went to Tridents or Legends. He saw the same Sh/t that the rest of us who went saw. Don't know what his involvement with the club is, but he turned up, which is more than I suspect a lot of others did.

Im really not so sure. And its not saying this just for the sake of it. Flower was in a way a bit of a freak. The kind of player that created space where none existed ( actually Trapper could too ) . Though 5 inches shorter and a probable 15 kg lighter than Watts , Flower would easily out manouvre and hustle Watts. Flower understood his body and how to use it on the footy field. Jack has all but no idea really, not in close quarters. Jack needs space for his skills to shine , and he has many but they get all too easily impacted by the heightened level of play . The harder it got the more Robbie shone. The harder is gets game day the worse Watts looks. I take no pleasure in writing that. Its just what is. We often use the term 'mongrel' when determining whether a player has , or hasnt any real moxie for the game. There is no doubt he has some or he would not be out there but he seems to make little impact on the game, or rather the opposition. An aspect that truly concerns me is that Jack is now 5 seasons in and seems to show no real appetite for the battle. Contrary to some I'd suggest he does indeed try, in his own manner, its just ineffectual. Tackles rarely stick and he doesnt shut down anyones play. His own efforts in offence often go well but theres no real defensive side to his game . Hes as they say a one way runner. Some suggest hed be better off playing basket ball but id disagree on that in so far as at the elite level its a very rough and tumble , no please or thankyou's given type of game. I think he run into the same problems there. He wouldnt impose of himself and in so be found wanting. Even in B Ball smaller players are still able and desire to take on larger ones in the contest with body on body. This is seemingly what jack isnt so keen on, i.e the 'crunch'. This seems odd to me because if you use your body well it actually hurts less to be the instigator as opposed the receiver. I keep saying it...its all between the ears...with Jack And as further to the comparison to a Flower, Robbie ALWAYS had that appetite for the game. 5 seasons in we're still waiting with Jack.

Tom McDonald played a bad game on Sunday. He was beaten comprehensively on Sunday. I ask why JW cops such criticism but TM doesn't. I have not been a vocal critic of JW but I am now. It is not that he played badly - he is copping well deserved crticism for the manner that he plays badly. I think supporters can half stomach a player getting beaten by a better player on the day as long as the effort was there ( TM being a prime example). It is the lack of apparent effort that I can't stomach.

1) It's not about tackles, it's about effort to win the contest 2) I assume Roos has the same standards for everyone, regardless of their role in the team or where they were drafted Gee who would've thought that on a discussion forum devoted to the MFC we would be discussing the MFC and it's players! A pretty outlandish concept I know but analysis and opinions on the players and club makes for more interesting reading than "jolly good game" and everyone queuing up to pat each other on the back. Or he is being given another chance after being told what is expected of him. To be honest I had no intention of debating Watts' game this much, watching the game I thought he was poor but overall I thought the team did OK and really we should've won the game. We dominated the second half but couldn't convert that into goals. Part of my thoughts on the game were that Watts was poor and that level of effort should not be tolerated and he should be made to work his way back through the two's. I am frankly amazed at the amount of people on here willing to make excuses and that have two sets of standards which for me is the only reason these threads exist. This isn't about Watts-bashing, it's about being unwilling to accept those kinds of efforts regardless of who commits them. As Roos said last week or the week before, you can forgive skill errors, you can forgive if someone doesn't have all the talent in the world but you can't accept a lack of effort. That goes for every single player at the club, not just some. Otherwise our culture is worth less than nothing, we will continue playing bruise free footy and churning out guys like Travis Johnstone, Morton, Watts etc who will get by their whole careers on skill alone without being willing to put in the effort to make them and the club champions.

No, VFL form

This is what I find so laughable about some posters on this board, Salem 0 AFL games but he is the best 22, based on what junior form?, hence Morton, Gysberts and Cook were locks for the best 22

The thing that disappointed me about his game on the weekend wasn't the fact that he's not crunching players with tackles or putting his head down and barging through a pack like Jones or Viney. I don't expect that of him and it's not his role. The thing that made me think he should be dropped were his efforts on a couple of occasions in 1:1 marking contests I think against Prestia. He has the height advantage but on more than one occasion didn't fight hard enough (or at all) for front position and then was pathetic in the marking contest losing without a whimper to a guy 20cm shorter. This is unacceptable and is why he should be dropped because he showed no fight to win the contest, no intensity to work to front position. There are other examples as well where he stands off packs like a seagull but these marking contests are what did it for me. Standards have to be set for this team and he needs to prove his worth in a stretch of games at Casey before coming back. 1 or 2 games won't cut it he needs to prove it over 4-6 games consistently til it is drummed into him.

Maybe it's just a 3 year deal but with different terms for 2015 than his original 2 year deal. I think if you do that you don't have to stick to the initial draft contract. I think draftees get about 50k but like 5k or more per match payment which if he plays every match obviously adds on another 100k to the deal. Possibly renegotiating the contract to give him guaranteed money for 2015 and 2016 (or even 2017) can result in paying the same amount of money as well as having him signed up. Plus you can then front load the contract for salary cap space in the future. There's obvious benefit for getting those who you have a lot of confidence about locked in to contracts so you can start getting an idea of where you have room to move.

Don't believe it. I'd be happy if it happened for I think Jay will be a good player for us, however it makes no sense. Just incoherent trolling again.

One bad game? Please, his efforts are something that has been an issue his entire career. We can either set standards for our players and try and rectify Watts' deficiencies now or we can just let him and the team coast along for another 5-10 years of mediocrity.

trouble is,when hes running around in the senoirs,other listed players look and think "well thats the standard" if he can get a game producing that chit,then why not me also. playing blokes in the ressies for one game means absolutely nothing,but sending them for 5/6 games scares the living christ out of the rest of list. also his "manager" will struggle to sell another club on him if hes in ressies,and im sure will tell his client"your output has to match your pay packet or nobody else will offer us good money for your services. also in the 2nds i would make him play in the ruck.that way he has to run at an opponent whether he likes it or not. north did this with there softkok hansen and he wasted 5 years until his time in 2nds ruck sorted him out. either do it or lose your career. but please lets not let the list think"if he can play like that,so can i" the result is cancerous on the club.

If Dom finds it cold in a Melbourne autumn, he must have hated the winters while living in Ballarat!

Just said he took the entire list to watch today's game to see where they need to get to.

Jake King knows a guy

Here it is in its entirety and I'm also posting it as a separate post re the Salem interview for those not normally interested in Casey matters. Melbourne's Christian Salem starred on Sunday for the Casey Scorpions against Frankston with a 34 possession performance which included a vital goal in the low scoring match. Casey Radio [FM 97.7] interviewed him on its Saturday morning programme and this was replayed before Sunday's game. These are my notes of the highlights - The first question was about how Salen started off at the Sandringham Dragons and his battle with injury soon after being drafted. It was a thyroid problem that started last year just before the draft and by the time it was properly diagnosed and treated he was 10 kilograms lighter. He was finding that he couldn't get through training so he took a blood test which uncovered the problem. At first he was restricted to walking and it was a frustrating time but now he's back to normal. Salem was asked about his Lebanese background. His father was born in Lebanon and his mother is also Lebanese but born here. He's very proud to be the fourth known Lebanese player in the AFL. He supported Essendon when Bachar Houli (also Lebanese) was playing for them and it's an honour representing his people. Asked about Paul Roos, Salem says he met him up at the Gold Coast at the draft and he was very approachable. The boys want to play for him and learn the game. Salem's father owns and runs two restaurants in Brighton - Rock Salt and North Point at the end of North Road. He worked there when he was younger but although that business is an option and he sometimes helps out from time to time, he's not sure what he wants to do in the future. When did Melbourne first speak to him? The spoke early in the year last year and then for about 20 to 30 minutes at Draft Camp. He loved being picked up in the National Draft and is happy at Melbourne. During the year a couple of recruiters from other clubs came down to have a chat at the family restaurant in Brighton. Asked if he would be ready to play against Gold Coast, he said he had not been named to play and that he was playing in the VFL against Frankston but he hoped the boys would get up in that game. Has he been given a time line for when he would be in the mix for AFL selection? "I think Roosy's good like that. He's more into not wanting to put pressure on the first year players. He's into introducing good habits in the VFL learning as much as you can and if the time comes, it doesn't matter how old you are, he'll put you in so its more about getting games into you." The feeling was great after Satuday's win, hearing the song being sung and in recovery the next day. He assured the panel that Roosy does know the words to the song. Asked about the transition from TAC Cup to playing more pro football, Salem said it was not too bad because with the AIS program they're pretty good at giving you a week to spend at a club. He spent it at Carlton last January and it was good in that it prepares you for what's to come. Once he got there he was comfortable - it was still hard but not too much of a step up. What are the things he is currently working on (noting that his kicking was one of his strengths) - "I still work on it. I'm working on playing forward, on my leading up and marking, repeat efforts and leading patterns." He was then asked to answer music questions in a 6 from 60 format: * Biggest influence on your career so far - family * Best teammate - Josh Kelly from the TAC Cup (now with GWS) Hardest opponent - Tom Bugg (also with GWS) "from when I was playing school footy" Most annoying team mate - not sure Best sporting memory - school football Hobbies away from football - relaxing with family, play station and watching soccer The interview finished with a question about what he was doing at the time (Saturday morning) at AAMI Park doing "motivation stuff". There's an article on the game on the Casey Scorpions website here. Final Peter Jackson VFL Casey Scorpions 1.2.8 3.5.23 5.8.38 9.14.68 Frankston 2.7.194.10.34 5.14.44 6.18.54 Goals Casey Scorpions Best 3 Jamar 2 Morris Nicholson Salem Smith Frankston Alwan 2 Lourey Matheson Simpson Tynan Best Casey Scorpions Salem Panozza Strauss Clisby Petropoulos Smith Frankston Kitchin Cavarra Alwan Harper Potts Newman Final 2014 AFL Victoria Development League Casey Scorpions 3.0.18 8.1.49 9.2.56 13.10.88 Frankston 1.3.9 3.4.22 8.7.55 10.8.68 Goals Casey Scorpions Anderson King Wyatt 2 Gawley Jackson Murray Paredes Plummer Rosier Scott Frankston Irving 3 Fox 2 Greeley Hammond Helliwell Murnane Whitty Best Casey Scorpions Thwaites Drew Gawley Anderson Murray King Frankston Williams Irving Fox Greeley Foote Lees Statistics - Frankston v Casey Scorpions (Round 3) * Sam Blease 22 disposals 14 kicks 8 handballs 5 marks 3 tackles 88 Dream Team Points * Mitch Clisby 16 disposals 10 kicks 6 handballs 5 marks 3 tackles 67 Dream Team Points * Colin Garland 15 disposals 12 kicks 3 handballs 4 marks 4 tackles 68 Dream Team Points * Max Gawn 10 disposals 6 kicks 4 handballs 6 marks 19 hit outs 60 Dream Team Points * James Harmes 31 disposals 15 kicks 16 handballs 6 marks 4 tackles 114 Dream Team Points * Jayden Hunt 8 disposals 6 kicks 2 handballs 3 marks 4 tackles 47 Dream Team Points * Mark Jamar 2 goals 10 disposals 7 kicks 3 handballs 4 marks 2 tackles 40 hit outs 97 Dream Team Points * Daniel Nicholson 1goal 18 disposals 14 kicks 4 handballs 5 marks 3 tackles 84 Dream Team Points * Aidan Riley 25 disposals 7 kicks18 handballs 3 marks 10 tackles 106 Dream Team Points * Christian Salem 1 goal 2 behinds 32 disposals 23 kicks 9 handballs 7 marks 4 tackles 133 Dream Team Points * James Strauss 21 disposals 14 kicks 7 handballs 5 marks 3 tackles 83 Dream Team Points * Jimmy Toumpas 11 disposals 9 kicks 2 handballs 5 marks 46 Dream Team Points [injured in second quarter]

Staggers me that people are calling for Georgiou's scalp after one bad game. Bean has been very good this year and used the ball well, one bad game and we drop him. Harsh on a player who has shown more in his first five games of footy than pretty much anyone else on our list

I have wrote this in the post match thread but I think it deserves a thread of its on. What is going on with our kick ins ? Its driving me insane. We have been the worst side at it since the Daniher era. Ever since they bought in the not waiting for the flag rule it has become even worse because every side bar us grab the ball and move it within 5 seconds of a point been kicked and before the opposition can set a zone up and the balls cleared. We wait for a player (usually Dunn) to slowly jog over grab the ball and by the time he does this the whole front half of the ground is zoned up. I would love to know the stats in regards to direct scores from our kick ins. We saw when we moved it quickly how beneficial it is, I think JKH got on the end of a quick kick in and goaled and the last goal of the game from dawes came as quick movement. We have had numerous coaches since Daniher but yet none have been able to rectify this part of our game, I honestly think its a prime example of players not working hard enough. They don't work hard into space, or to create space for other teammates, they just stand there and point at eachother. Resulting in us to kick long and hope the ball gets knocked out of bounds and then its a 50/50 ball(probably worse knowing our clearance rate) from a throw in. It is a serious part of our game we must improve because in a game like yesterday it can make the difference between a win & a loss.

If you're the type of player that doesn't like watching other teams for "superstitious reasons", you can right well F off! How the hell are you supposed to scout your opponent and truly understand how a team plays if you're only going to watch, say, a few minutes before you play them?

Oh boo f'ing hoo. He got subbed off then dropped? Who gives a crap this is a pro sport not a bloody under 10's where everyone gets a participation award and criticism is not allowed. No one wants to crucify the guy we all wan him to succeed and he has talent to be a contributor to our team but at the moment that talent is being wasted because he won't play with any intensity for whatever reason. He needs to go back to Casey to learn how to do that consistently before coming back to the seniors. Once he proves he can do that and he realises what the benchmark is for senior footy he will be a good player for us but until that happens he'll just end up another Morton.

Don't feed the troll.

Given the post about us merging from 'household demon' i would be very wary of believing this info. Smacks of trolling to me.

Little champion if true. Hopefully a 4 year extension for Jones is next on the cards. He should be our highest paid player.

My wife knows very little about football. Her questions are usually answered pretty easily. "What does the b stand for in the scoring?" "That stand for behinds. They're the same as points" "Why is the game still going when that guy was outside the line with the ball in his hand?" "In football it's only out if the ball crosses the line." "Why does Jack Watts always run so slowly and tap the ball around all the time? The guy running next to him always runs fast and just pushes him out the way and runs off with the ball." "Well, where do I start.................?"

He should be made to work it out at Casey. Why should Watts get a free pass when guys like Toumpas and Trengove were sent back to sort their games out?

I'm amazed the players don't otherwise take themselves to the game.

Why do people say 'laconic' when they mean 'lackadaisical'? 'Laconic' actually describes a person 'of few words'. 'Lackadaisical' means 'lacking enthusiasm and determination, or carelessly lazy'.

There is no room in modern football for players who avoid physical contact at all costs. Watts is a great kick, he has all the talent in the world, but he can't survive playing like he did yesterday. To anyone who watched any of the Hawks vs Cats game today, did you see anyone consistently avoid physical contact the way Watts does, or anyone as inept at it? We can sit around and sing kumbyyah whilst holding hands all we want, but it won't change the facts that no matter how talented someone is he won't succeed if he can't do the simple acts on a football ground. Hannibal got it right on BF, he'll be ok against poor teams but as soon as the intensity goes up he'll get found out. I want him to succeed, but I've changed my mind, I think he's a liability.

It's not about Watts' skill, it's all about effort. I like Watts but he is an embarrassment to our football club most of the time. A former number 1 draft pick who's been in the system for 6-7 years should be a lot better than he is. He lopes around with half efforts. It's not about Mckenzies effort it's about his skill. Combine this with Terlich, Jetta, Bail, Spencer who all put consistent unnecessary pressure on teammates with their disgraceful (for afl) standard disposal. It really is time for some people to lift their standards & expectations.

Thanks for your sane and incisive comments EN. Be assured, I shall give them the consideration they deserve.

This is the thing...he just doesnt crunch other players...they fling him off, brush him aside....almost contemptuously. Half the thing about tackling, whether the pc here care to acknowledge it is its a chance to legitimately HURT the other side. You crash opposition into the ground, you punnish them for taking too long etc. Its PHYSICAL and if you dont want to play this then dont go out there. JAck Watts IS bruise free footy...hate to say it

Put Jack on the wing. Let him run, run, run. Let him be the link man who delivers inside 50. More Robbie Flower than Brian Wilson. Whilst the rest of the team don't know what a tackle looks like (apologies to a very few) or how to go hard, you all isolate Jack for scrutiny. He did some smart things yesterday, and some apparently soft things. I wouldn't drop him, I would pop him on the wing and teach him to own it.

Month at Casey is a good start.....

If Jimmy Toumpas gets dropped to go and work on things when he was averaging this so far this season: 17.5 disposals 6.5 marks 1.0 goals 2.0 tackles Then SURELY Jack Watts needs to be dropped to go and work on things when Wattsy is averaging this so far this season: 17.6 disposals 4.6 marks 0.8 goals 2.6 tackles