Leaderboard

There's so much love because we've seen what he can do at Casey. The dropped marks are basically nerves, and the more games he plays the less we will see of it. He's hellishly fast for a guy his size, as we saw when he ran away from a couple of mids today and slotted the pass down the throat of a leading forward. He's a good overhead mark (despite what he's done the last couple of weeks) and he's 2m tall. He's been regularly getting 4 and 5 goal hauls at Casey, dominating both forward and in the ruck. What we want to see is an extended run in the seniors to work the nerves out and show some of that ability. Right now is the ideal time for this since we're short on tall forwards.

I know I'm going to cop a flame for this, but I want to say I actually feel better after watching the Collingwood game than I did at the start of the year after the Port one. I feel really hopeful and I reckon we're on the right track, as horrible as that may seem right now. What I saw in that first quarter was nothing short of remarkable. Sylvia laid 5 tackles. The boys played with real intensity. If not for 3 (I think it was 3?) posts, we would have been way in front. I normally don't subscribe to the "what-if" scenarios of hindsight, but in this case, those 3 goals would have made a huge difference. Collingwood looked demoralised, and would have been further had those been on the board. But the real hope IMHO came in the press conference. Neeld said something that really resonated with me, it was something like "we could have stuck Howe and Trenners on half back and limited the score, but then they wouldn't learn anything." He makes an interesting point. Does it really matter if we loose by 50 points or 90 points? It's a loss either way. The important thing is sticking with the structures and making sure the players actually learn something in the course of the game. I'm also encouraged a bit when I look at our injury list. We played 3 quarters of the game without Dawes, and we didn't have Clark, Frawley and Grimes. Garland did a great job on Cloke, but his job would have been much easier had Frawley been there, plus Grimes in the centre to help prevent the ball coming back there as often. Clark and Dawes ARE the forward structure. The best teams can cope with the loss of 4 of their best players, but we are in the unfortunate position that we can only replace them with VFL standard players or developing ones. We have no depth, but I'm convinced that our best 22 is much much better than anything we've seen this year. So the players play as if Clark and Dawes are there, and when they get back, the team will be used to the structure. I'll deal with the losses being larger in the meantime if the result is a team that learns their structure quickly and are ready for when those players slot right back in. /flameshield on. edit - spelling

Davey has reminded me that he is still one of the best kicks in the league, but the best kick so far this year has come from Trengove. In the first quarter, on the half-forward flank he hit Watts lace-out in a crowded forward line. What made this kick so good was he didn't kick the ball to Watts, he kicked the ball to space and made him lead to the ball. Melbourne players have a horrible habit of kicking to where the player is, not where he will be. This however was a tiny ray of light which suggests the players aren't completely clueless about the basics of football.

Thanks for the apology but you don't need to, as you and I know each other well enough to know, that we wouldn't intentionally offend the other. I believe that as I said Don will stand down and I think others will too. I don't think all of them need to go as we may lose some real talent. For example what if 3-4 talented board members were against all of the bad decisions, raised arguments for their views but were simply outvoted, Do you suggest they should go? As for the Gardiner Board they stepped aside for another Board, that was ready to take their place and made up of on the face of it, by some pretty impressive people and headed by a former Demon great. Yes the Gardiner Board could have refused to go and fought an election. Who do you think would have won that fight? Maybe they saw the writing on the wall and did the right thing. At the moment I don't see another ticket of impressive people ( MFC members ) offering to lead the club. Why are you criticizing the current board for not abandoning their posts when there is no alternative ready to take over? I don't understand that position. Only a coward or quitter runs away. It would be different if a viable alternative was ready willing and able, that is not the case. To be perfectly honest, other than perhaps someone like Kennett, I don't give a damn who runs this club. All I want is a competitive football team to watch. I haven't got one. I was close to tears on monday. I actually went to the fence and shouted at umpire number 6 from about 4 feet away over the Watts free kick which robbed us of any impetus and led to the onslaught of Pie goals. I have never done that before. Incidentally the umpire turned to me and shrugged as if to say he made a mistake. Mc Burney just smiled. This is what this debacle is doing to me. I am devastated at the poor decisions, made by my club that has led us to this calamity. None more so than BP. I can't believe again I am saying this, but I actually feel like I hate the guy. That is not my usual character. I feel for every supporter of our club. I understand every angry Demonlander venting their spleen. They have every right to do so. I feel sorry for my kids. My son is a fanatic beyond belief and I actually believe he would make a better President than most we have had recently. I feel sorry for my wife who WAS in tears over what has happened to us. Our family is but one of many that has given and invested so much into this club over so many years. You know me well and you would know how much this hurts me, but I actually told my Pies supporting son in law, that he could join my 2 grand daughters up as Pies members, so that they could have a chance of success with their team. They will however probably be members of both clubs. I wish I could cuddle Jaded who I have never met and tell her hang on, don't give up we will come good. I wish I could cheer up Old Dee and Why You Little. I wish I could make Stuie and JnrMac happy. I wish I could do something to make us better. What we must all do however, is not eat our own. I accept that the mistakes are just that, not deliberate. We must pray for PJ that he gets it right and that he screws the AFL for everything he can get. We must just keep faith in our club and when we are successful, we will enjoy it like nothing else, because of our suffering and we will tell the rest of the AFL footy world to go to hell, we are back.

It is possibly a result of having witnessed two of the more insipid efforts in AFL history in the last two years (being the 25 and 31 goal thumpings to Essendon and Geelong) that some supporters can actually say after yesterday's game that the effort was good. Against that benchmark, yes the effort was bloody good. But against the standard expected (at a minimum) from a professional football team, it was appalling and I really struggle to understand how anyone who was at the game can walk away thinking the effort was decent. The effort was terrific in the first quarter, but from midway through the second term until the end it was pathetic. To blame fitness or youth is just a cop out – these guys are professional sportsmen with elite conditioning and preparation and should be able to sustain effort for the majority of a game. I could accept reasons such as fitness or inexperience if we had a crack for three quarters and then faded in the last. I have seen GWS do this on a number of occasions this year (including against Geelong this weekend and against us) and I think it's fair to say that their last quarter fade outs are impacted by their youth and their inexperience. But I cannot accept it when a side's work rate and intensity completely falls away 10 minutes into the second quarter. Or, in the case of some other games this year, falls away 10 minutes into the first quarter. To me that's a mental thing and as I've said before the coach needs to be able to extract maximum effort from his players. Mark Neeld has not demonstrated an ability to extract the most out of his team and to me this is a bigger concern than things like game plan, structures, etc. I'm not excusing the players as they are also responsible for effort, but there is no doubt the top coaches are the ones who get the most out of their teams. I keep hearing the comment that since Round 3, apart from the GC game, our effort has been ok. Not it hasn't. It hasn't been anywhere near the standard of a professional football team. I don't blame Neeld for the shocking skill errors, the poor list he inherited and the injuries he's suffered. He has been dealt a difficult hand. But I do blame him for consistently failing to get the most out of his team.

Garland, Sylvia, Jones, Tom Mcdonald, Davey, Howe? (I am not a Neeld fan by the way)

From what I can tell, his modus operandi is pretty simple. A step by step to being Satyr: 1. Search for threads where someone expresses an opinion that is not entirely supportive of the club's direction, or anyone directly contributing to that direction; 2. Respond to that person in the most antagonistic/condescending way possible, claiming they either have some alterior motive or don't know what they are talking about. Using names like "orc" or "keyboard hero" work best in catching people's attention, and such labels also allow for grouping people together in a simplified manner; 3. Once the initial reply achieves an equally antagoniistic response, point to the language in the response as evidence that the person doesn't wish to contribute constructively to the topic; 4. Always take the highest ground possible and lay claim to a noble cause of bringing the club's detractors to task, and essentially saving the day; 5. At any and every opportunity, drop the names of people you have spoken to at the club. Give the impression that you can speak with authority on the club's behalf, and that you have Don McLardy on speed dial; 6. Suggest to the person that if they are so upset about the club, they should run for a position there, preferably on the board. Remind them that failure to do so removes any right to be critical; 7. If the conversation has progressed beyond this point, it's time to make this sh!t personal. Assure the other person that you lead a much more fulfilling life than they do. And there you have it. 7 easy steps to being an insufferable git.

I agree with this but also don't understand how people don't see how much BP and DB stuffed us up?? We have next to no decent 23-25 year olds when really we should have a side full of them. We have no 26+ leaders whatsoever. I don't think anyone could coach this side to more than 4 wins in a season.

Then he should resign as the results under his guidance have been a complete failure. If we were a public company we'd be broke. Can you name them? They reduced debt by calling on members and then presided over a $500,000 AFL fine and a payout to the CEO who they reappointed 6 months earlier. And our on field performance under their guidance is just terrible. Redleg do you think they have done a good job? On any evaluation they are a failure and should recognize that and organize a competent Board in their place. They are being burned by the supporters and media because we put our trust in them, gave them our money and it's all for nothing. They have got us to such a terrible position nobody will take over. Not only that they are doing some window dressing by having a review of their performance by themselves. That may curry support from you but not from me. I don't want a review, it's a waste of time. Look at the financial bottom line and the second last line on the ladder, that will tell you. The fact that the review is by one of their own is an insult to the membership. Might as well get Wayne Swan to review the Labor Party performance. This Board has sucked money and hope out of the members. It's sad. I don't question their motive or their commitment. I question their results and have for sometime. I've been pointing out here for so long that they lack independence and process but got abused from pillar to post. And tell me this. How can Don McLardy sit on a Board that decides Neeld's future? Don selected him along with Jalland. They should stand aside and excuse themselves from any discussion on the coach's future. Sadly they won't because to be honest, they just don't get it.

An internal review of the board from a current member is also a conflict of interest. Deloitte or not it should be handled externally to give a fair ruling.

It was a nice kick, but... My favourite was Kent's bomb from about 65 metres out that was going too fast for Howe to grab in the goal square. This kid can seriously kick a football and will be a true asset to the team once he finds a groove.

as i have said all along, the list isnt bad. We have some damn good players. Get a proper coach in and we will start winning games.

So what's the reason for us having so many turnovers? It can't *just* be skill - the number is too high. I reckon for every time I saw a turnover through a skill error, I saw two occasions where we turned it over by handballing it to a stationary player who got cained, or just hoofed it to a pack of Collingwood players. These aren't skill errors, these are decision making errors that can be a direct result of the team either being set up wrong, or players not working hard enough to put themselves in a dangerous position. I'd like to see a breakdown, or at least some analysis of the cause of the turnovers before I accept it as a reason to exonerate the coach.

His field kicking and decision making in the 2nd half today were excellent, So was his pace. He had seven tapouts - 2 to advantage. Jamar had 20 more with 1 more to advantage. He will improve with game time, edits for typos

If the reporting of Don McLardy's Presidential Queen's Birthday speech is correct, then it explains a lot about why we are in the mess we are in. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/mclardy-slams-kennett-20130610-2o07l.html When is anyone in this club going to take responsibility for anything? Not soon clearly according to the current president. Apparently, the current board are incredibly passionate about the Demons, are really good, competent people, and it will all come right in the end... Well I am sorry, but if any Board I had anything to do with had delivered the results the current one had over the last five years, then they would all be out on their heads, and most professional board members would see that as fair enough. THEY HAVE FAILED SPECTACULARLY. Where are the passionate, professional people amongst demon supporters? If a board had failed so spectacularly at Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Sydney, or Carlton, there would have been a number of rival bids from passionate, high powered supporters desperate to turn things around and to roll the current incompetents. Instead, it is left to Jeff Kennett, a Hawthorn supporter, to make the running. Personally, I would much much prefer the professionalism and ruthlessness of a Kennett bid, than the weak kneed, amateur-hour that is our current Board. When are the current group going to take some responsibility. No time soon clearly. TIME TO TURF THEM OUT. I am heartily sick of this farce. If you are too, let's join a movement o do something about it.

How to save Demonland's forum hosting bills and the forum reputation... Lock threads like this

Have to say Toumpas showed us yesterday he is an elite kick, one pass was only about 20m I thInk in the 3rd quarter went like a rocket first low hard accurate kick I have seen for some time

Who exactly did McKenzie stop yesterday?

Listen to the whole speech on the website, where you also at the Fed Sq?, Don McLardy twice accepted responsibility for everything....or are you just going by what is in the Age again? There is also a review of the Board being undertaken to see if they have the mix right, Don also said for interested parties to put their name forward by letting him or John Trotter know.......so off you go

I'm not surprised at the criticsm of Cam, most (if not all) games he's played he's been poor. But I am certainly in the camp that thought he was quite good on the weekend. It's a difficult ask playing in the defence for Melbourne at the moment but I thought he came off his player and made some important contests quite a few times and took some telling interception marks. I can't actually recall the contest he apparently squibbed but I will assume it was bad. Ultimately he was fighting a losing battle much like Garlo was. But I thought I saw some potential in there.

Moloney ,Rivers ,Gysberts ,Martin .

This has been the case for 15 years or more mate. SO many pot the kicker or bewail our "strategies" but as far back as the Daniher days we've lacked blokes who will take the responsibility of being a marking target for the kick-in.

Another anti-Neeld thread where people will blame MN for every bad player that was drafted before him and players that haven't improved, then not give him any credit for good players that he drafted and players that have improved. Getting very boring.

1) Collingwood scored 13.11.89 directly from turnovers. This really supports the argument that we were ok when trying to win the ball but couldn't keep it. We only kicked 2 goals from turnovers. I think skill errors are often forced by actual and perceived pressure by the opposition; the reason why a team can look a million bucks against a poor team then get smashed by a good team. Increase fitness, experience and confidence are the only things that can fix this. They only way too improve all three is time. 2) champion data don't release the stats because those stats are their IP. They record hundreds of categories. The clubs have to pay big money to buy them, if they were released fir fee the company would go broke. Personally I think this should be done by the AFL and released for all. 3) newspapers buy the minimum stats we see and base analysis around that. Analysis is aimed at typical deadbeat and doesn't ever do real analysis. Half the time I don't think the authors are even at the game, stories are up so quickly after the matches the articles must be part written before the game. It would be great if they could get some ex coaches to do in depth analysis at a level they would do in club, to really explain what sort of planning and analysis may be applied.

Basically goes on to explain that Billy is giving up football for a life as a Buddhist monk.

I say two things to this thread..... The board needs to go but WHO is standing up to drive the club forward?? Its pathetic that we need Kennet to calling for Board change. thats how much passion has been sucked from this club. Very few seem to give a stuff because they have been treated like a mangy dog - being kicked around for months and years and pretty soon all fight is gone. They stand whimpering in the corner. Thats how this club feels to me. It will show affection for anyone that gives it a pat. Secondly, we have already had a big review. It was called the Andrews report. It was shelved because no-one liked it and it told too many home truths. Largely (from my understanding) about CSchwab and Connolly and how they "allegedly" undermined Bailey. Now I don't know the truth of any of that but it sure as hell was like a nuclear explosion at this club. Jackson is nobody's puppet and so some good may come of it but it will probably be another shiitfight. I don't know much but I know this. When you have cancer you to cut it all out otherwise you are a goner. We didn't cut it out last time. Hopefully it aint too late.

Who is being the keyboard warrior here? I've given my opinion, that's what Demonland is for, it's not a reliable source of board members, it's an internet forum for MFC supporters to share their thoughts and opinions. I take it you're on the board then seeing you're potting the rest of us for "doing nothing"?

Stuies probably like the rest of the supporters that are sick of losing by 15 goals every week, it's a long line, it's time for a change, Christ if we listen to boot lickers like You and RPFC we might make the finals in 2020.

An internal review of the board by a board member .. That's a bit like George Pell sorting out the Catholic Church isn't it?? What a joke.

Mate, it's an internet forum. People post opinions here, that's the whole point.

You don't really fire yourself when you are an honorary board member, you just walk away. You generally do that because you are sick and tired of being burned by the media and supporters. You think you should probably have kept all of the money you have donated to the club and then probably don't donate anymore, because of the way you were treated for trying to help. Alternatively you get beaten in an election.

We can't afford to pay the electricity bill?

The point about Fitz is he is 201 cm tall but has the speed of a mid-fielder. I have seen him regularly burn off apponents half his size at Casey, while moments later taking spectacular pack marks. He is a classic big bloke who needs time and senior experience. I am certain it will pay off in time. Because he is so quick, I think he would fit in well with a forward line of Clark, Watts, hogan, Howe and Dawes, with maybe a rejuvenated Davey (or Bleese) as crumber, but with Watts playing centre and Howe ruck-rover. Looks great on paper, and that may be the trouble!

Don is a good bloke, loves the Dees, but is not the president to lead at our darkest time. Mark Neeld is a good bloke, great assistant coach, but is not the coach to lead at our darkest time. Trenners and Grimes are good blokes, love the Dees, but are not the captains to lead at our darkest time. There's a pattern somewhere....

I used to enjoy reading your posts mate but they have really gone downhill of late. The arrogance and self importance is beginning to shine through more than ever.

Yep, I reckon he would be picked up. Size , speed, etc.....has chronic fatigue behind him and is getting used to living with diabetes. I reckon there would be a fair bit of interest.

well done mate, this is exactly it & is how the players will learn to develop. I to was wondering about stemming the bleeding in past matches by putting extra numbers back, but that just serves the players who want to take the soft way out of the embarrassment,,, instead of working harder in the first place. the key is for the players to learn to put the opposition back on their own back foot from our pressure. Neeld is on the right path.

Whatever the reason, it is the thing that most of us have banged on about for the last few years. We get the ball, but can't use it to AFL Standard and as a result you get smashed on the turnover in the modern game.Is it skill, game plan or development. I don't think it is development. It IMO is skill. Yes you could say we are not sure of the game plan, but that is not the reason you miss kick 20 metres to a team mate or you handball to a player standing still, with an opponent next to him. IMO we simply can' t execute basic disposal. We have drafted non skilled footballers. Someone posted that they attended training recently with some media people and they all agreed that our training and skill levels were the worst they had seen.

Luke Darcy picked up his problem in the replay and we should listen to Darcy because he was such a success in his own career and is so knowledgable now that he is mates with BT. It's all beard related.

When (if) Dawes and Clark come back into the forward line, drawing the top 2 defenders, Watts becomes a serious weapon at HFF. You could see how much of an effect it had when Dawes was subbed off.

A good coach plans for turnovers and ensures players know how and where to run when the ball is turned over.Every team turns it over, no team is constantly caught flat footed. Some idiot in front of me kept saying it's ok that we are not manning up because we turned it over. Are you friggin kidding me? We should never play so loose that we are caught 3-4-5 out on the counter attack. Neeld is frustrated yet does nothing to change our on field behavior from week to week. Instead he bemoans our lack of experience (Collingwood had more 1st year players than us), our lack of strength through the middle (where is Magner?), our turnovers (why is Dunn getting a gig at the kick outs), and the fact that our older players aren't putting in. Well Jones and Garland are our best every week, while the rest are your doing. You punished Jetta for his suspension, yet Sylvia waltzes back in. You signed Jamar for 3 years. You brought us Pederson and Gillies and Rodan. Not everything is on you, but to take no responsibility makes you weak. And if you are gutless then you can't complain that your players are gutless too.

As supporters we naturally invested trust in Neeld following his appointmemt back in 2011. We were buoyed by his no-nonsense approach and declaration that he would get us fit, give us a finals-style gameplan and make us the toughest team to play in the competition. These were big words that sounded great. But the talk compared to the reality have been two very different things. No one can argue with that. After yet another 80 point drubbing and absolutely no signs of progress during his year and a half at the helm, he has done little to repay the faith. The more I watch, the more I am saddened and angered that he has stripped our club of flair, confidence and above all else, hope. I spent 2012 backing him, then after that horrific year, was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt heading into 2013. My patience has run out. Time is up.

1. Turnovers 2. Lack of spread 3. Missed tackles 4. Hand passing to stationary teammates 5. Lack of fitness 6. Tom Gillies 7. Mark Neeld

"we could do worse" - I think we need to adopt a different attitude if we are ever going to get out of this mess.

Incidentally, am I the only one who loved the 50m penalty Garland gave away? Just hurled Cloke face-first to the ground to emphasize his point to the rest of our defence. Beautiful.

what the last bunch of posters have discussed is the no.1 issue for me. It has the thing that has me stumped and despairing the most. leading, manning up, running to space, chasing, applying pressure what I cannot fathom is how these obvious flaws are not being worked out. The crazy thing is that you can do these things if you have no talent. You can do it if you are 5 foot nothing or 7 foot. It's not something that the coach has any control over. It's something you learn as a 10-year old just starting footy. Why IN THE NAME OF GOD can they not do these things?

I've been debating this point with you last year t_u and I was all for keeping him. But, today was almost the last straw...clapped all the players into a huddle, watched them break, then kicked the ball to himself and passed it straight to Jolly. Game over.

Gerald Healy just stated that Peter Jackson is going to the AFL on Friday with his blueprint for the Demons moving forward. If AFL are happy with his plans Dees will then have some financial freedom to make some changes. Which could include funds for new football manager, payout coach etc. Changes on the way but not until after Friday. Views?

I too am in previously uncharted waters... I never thought I would be here. The last month or so I am ashamed to admit I have stopped going, and today I didn't even watch on TV. Of course I checked the score but wasn't at all surprised to see we were in it for 35 minutes and then got absolutely slaughtered. Every week you can't help thinking that maybe something will click and we will actually play 4 respectable quarters of football, but this mob just refuses to do it. After previously asking for leniency on Neeld he has lost me, we just seem to be getting worse and worse. The last 3 weeks we have lost by an average of 89 points, that is an utter disgrace. However, the worst part is that there is nobody really making a fuss of it, we are so beaten down and jaded by supporting this club that the passion, even the negative passion, is fading. This failure for me to participate would have been unthinkable even a year ago... in fact I have gone several years without a missing game in Victoria, even at the cattery. I am paid up and I am on this site just about every day.. but I have plenty enough on my plate and plenty enough stress and sadness to deal with in daily life without having to deal with how [censored] we have become. I really hope that I am in the minority here, and I am not indicative of the supporter base, but it looks like year after year of pain has finally caught up with me and the level of commitment I thought previously to be unshakable is clearly coming undone. We are in a diabolical situation.. with all the challenges we were already facing we just REALLY didn't need to go backwards on the field and go back to the worst (or close to) side in the comp and everybody's whipping boy/laughing stock. I have a terrible feeling there will be no bouncing back from this as a club... and if quality players walk out as rumored.. it's over. I can't even envisage what kind of miracle can bring us back from the dead.. we need a superstar coach and a superstar player or two.. but it's not going to happen. Nobody wants anything to do with us and understandably so. It might be possible to throw money at the issue but we don't have any so we're stuffed there too. Hard times indeed.

Of course it's pathetic but there is no way I couldn't care - I'm way too emotionally invested and always will be, much the same as many on here I'd say. Not a healthy relationship to say the least.