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To me Baghdad Bob epitomises an attitude that has been the core of our clubs demise. A soft underbelly and an unwillingness to fight when the going get tough. I have watched from the outer for more years than I'd like remember as a succession of Boards and administrators rolled over when required and adopted a survivalist attitude. Sorry Bob I don't want to survive for the sake of surviving. More than ever I want to fight.

Enjoy. Game Day NAB 3 : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Game-Day-NAB-3/28357597_CxgFXt ________________________________________________________________________ 08/3/2013 Gosch's Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Training-goshs-paddock-08-03/28334563_kFSpkm ________________________________________________________________________ 08/03/2013 Gosch’s Paddock: http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/MFC-Training-Scratch-Match/28017196_ZNV9H7 ________________________________________________________________________ Sponsors on the strip => http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/27976940_WDtpsP ________________________________________________________________________ Friday in close : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Compilation2/27961225_bTbHLh#!i=2360399846&k=c8DjBtw&lb=1&s=A Eyes on the ball : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Eye-on-the-ball/27960289_3JN7QN ________________________________________________________________________ 08/02/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-Goschs-Paddock-8/27914371_H2sKNg#!i=2355903684&k=h7426pR&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ Nathan Jones in flight ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Jones-in-flight/27911725_Dpc52t#!i=2355670759&k=NsPRSs6&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ 7-2-2013 I had a bit of time on my hands last night so I had a bit of fun with the training photos. I’ve compiled a collection of the best from all three training sessions, cropped some to bring the action in a bit closer and added a few new ones that you haven’t seen before. Enjoy Compilation :. http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Compilation/27906712_DrJdTZ#!i=2355192712&k=xBfZLSr&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ 04/02/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/MFC-Training-Goschs-Paddack-4/27856441_ZZV58P#!i=2350089315&k=Vz2h9RJ&lb=1&s=A 01/02/2013 Linton Street Moorabbin : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-1-02-2013/27813243_jFbL9F#!i=2346768420&k=dFsLz3d&lb=1&s=A 28/01/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-2013-01-28/27800770_DqggvC#!i=2344500953&k=4dF2pVS&lb=1&s=A

Sorry Bob that attitude of being good little boys because we get handouts got us into this mess. No more we always held the Ace in this one Essendon have almost given us a full house Time to fight it may be expensive but we wont lose and if it goes to court AD will not be around any longer to hand out retribution

For us it has been a lifestyle choice.

I do not agree with the way we went about 2009. But there is no way we should offer up sacrificial lambs. Who would take on positions of authority with the MFC in the future? For better or worse 2009 exists. We must fight this to the death. Any thing less is a slow death. I have stuck with the Dees through decades of crap. But to weaken on this issue would seriously threaten my resolve to continue with the MFC into the future. This is it for the MFC win or die a death of a thousand cuts. MFC DO NOT RETREAT

If we are not guilty you do not send men to the firing squad. It is time this club and supporters stood as one, those who do not want that better pack up and leave in the next few days... Montgomery Burns would sacrifice employees for a not guilty charge....

Hope i never have to work for or with you Bob. Youre too quick to make sacrifices, esp of those that were only doing the clubs bidding. Im not one for having them face the cannon only to be shot in the back. I sense you will now proffer , ah but for the greater good. But theres no good in treachery.

Sorry Bob, but if we throw our employees under a bus as you suggest, we are finished as a club and are behaving in a reprehensible manner. How could we ever employ quality people to work for the good of the club if we shown no loyalty to our own? If the so-called "scalps" have done nothing wrong we would be very ordinary people if we didn't defend them to the hilt.

Yes. He is 77% developed and will play 6 games.

About 3 hours ago. Enjoy. Nathan Jones in flight ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Jones-in-flight/27911725_Dpc52t#!i=2355670759&k=NsPRSs6&lb=1&s=A

This will tickle your fancy wyl and others WCE CEO Trevor Nisbett said today Nisbett, who described West Coast as "one of the major advocates" of clean sport, I almost fell off my chair. Does he really think we all have that short of memories Really!

Gonzo, we tanked in that we tried to lose to Richmond, but some supporters won't acknowledge it, because of the argument over the definition of tanking. I assume they'd admit it over a beer, but maybe not. I agree with others though in that we have to fight this all the way. Being found guilty has too many consequences and imo it should be very difficult to prove, unless there's evidence which is yet to come to light, i.e. emails, etc. Also, one of the most important things any person, club, or entity can have in life is their reputation. I accept that whatever happens ours has been tarnished to a degree, but meekly accepting a guilty verdict has consequences and permeation's that will never be eradicated. That is not acceptable.

I can imagine a finding which covers both bases. A bit crude and subject to criticism, but with the more serious drug issue to work on, possibly sufficient to allow everyone to move on. Along the lines of: While there was insufficient evidence to sustain a charge against MFC and its officials, it is clear that the PP system has given rise to the public perception that winning games was not their highest priority. The AFL has already taken steps to ensure this cannot happen in future by taking decisive action in abolishing the PP. blah blah blah....

This may be too paradoxical for some, but it is possible to think we tanked in 2009 and at the same time believe we are not guilty of an ill-defined charge of tanking.

Do you really think that will be the extent of the damage? Do you not think that being found guilty will have a significant adverse impact on the club's brand, which in turn could lead to issues with sponsorship and other revenue-generating activities? As Don McL said we need to protect the integrity of the MFC.

^^^ Why even bother?

Ding and I were there today.He is cropping some pics before we post them on 'Ology Gawn doing run throughs at a fair pace in the rehab group, that also contained Trenners, Tapscott. Dawes stayed behind with them after the others left to head back to Bubbledome, to put their running shoes on. We both fell in man-love with Player number 1, wow does he have great size for a 17 year old, and he moves so well. I was surprised by his pace off the mark, and agility Viney looks like he has been there for years, and was constantly throwing himself under a pack. Smart money for rising star. Ding made the comment that Dawes looks like an "outsider", but I didnt notice that. Toumpas doesnt like the sun, and trained in a MFC cap. Was being tagged by Dunn in the match simulation. The first match sim was just ball movement, spread, and kicking to the spread. No defensive pressure as such. It then progressed to physical pressure, although I would expect to see them go harder come rd1. The talk/encouragement was fantastic, and at a level that I have never seen at a training session before. A few of the boys called for Blease, when he headed to the tent after warmup, instead of participating in the rest of training. He was pointing to his lower right leg, and received a number of rubdowns in the tent, but didnt seem too worried about it. We spent more time looking through the lense, than at the play, and cant tell you much, but if you have a question, shoot. faulty

doesn't surprise me

Thousands of clubs in a stack of sports have 'List managed' for over 100 years. Describing what we did in 2009 as tanking has sinister connotations for a few reasons. Not the least being that tanking can equate to match fixing. Tanking doesn't have a clear definitive meaning so therefore shouldn't be used as a description for what we did in 2009. Edit : Spelling and grammar (I blame the phone)

Have we considered that the club which has taken the vow of silence has also worded up Gary and said "dont comment and dont bite". Whilst I think if this all settled with no impact to us then we should all quietly move on , but I also know some will be baying for blood - CW's in particular. I think that keeping powder dry until we know what the outcome is, is a better idea than taking her task now before all the cards are on the table.

Like you and Old Fity I'm also a dinosaur. Also like you i don't have an axe to grind with CW. However i dislike her style of journalism, which hovers between discussing the politics of the game and simple gossip mongering, which has always had a place in journalism but back in the day was more the provence of the Truth not the supposedly best newspaper in the state. Some people like this style as evidenced by the popularity of Footy Classified and for that matter CW. For me the politics of the sport are of interest sometimes but i much prefer analysis of the game itself or at the least some depth to the discussion that can help me understand things better ie it doesn't just have to be report the facts style only (though more of that would be good). For example CW (or for that matter few journalists) have explored what the actual tanking related charges mean, how they might be applied, how they might stand up in court and what the implications of any court case might have (eg a negative finding for the AFL may impact on other laws in the game such as the draft)? Another example: Essendon's fate largely hinges whether the substance used by them was prohibited', which given no one has tested positive would be difficult to establish i would presume. Why then was it not discussed in an hour of discussion on Footy Classified if it is possible for ASADA to test any of the substances. Is there any of it still at Essendon? Are there records? How will they determine if the supplements contained banned substances? Can they be found guilt of contravening policy in terms of how the supplement was administered? What are the next steps? These are the questions i am interested in. CW is not alone in not asking or answering them - hundreds of journalist and so little clarity! The other thing i find amazing is that whilst CW and others were focusing on tanking the biggest story in AFL history was unfolding. How come no one knew about what was happening at Essendon - off site injections?, 40 odd player signing multiple forms? rumors swirling about possible use of Peptides?, the increase in size of the don's players?, the huge run of soft tissue injuries that apparently are often associated with use of growth hormones? the sheer scale of it? What about the ACC investigation - how come no one broke that I mean come on - where were the sources? Wha didn't this get out? Kudos to Damien Barrret for triggering this and interviewing Reimers but he said last night he was going to sit on this till the first footy show in March. Healy alterted the AFL about the Peptide issue 12 months go? And still it didn't make the news. Crazy stuff.

I am not disillusioned and I will tell you why... I am a US sports fan and the blind eye they turned to PEDs in their major sports has passed critical mass. It passed it when Barry Bonds was ripping balls deep at 35, it passed with US cycling teams allowing and imploring Armstrong to do what he wanted to do, it passed when NFL players and NBA players become massive after short pre-seasons spent with their personal 'physicians.' We are reaching ours right now and there is universal disgust and condemnation - a foundation club is on it knees in one sport begging for mercy. As painful as it is - it is a good sign. We needed to have this moment before we got to the 'everyone does it, let's just let it go, they're all doing it!' So our sport is on fire right now and the outcome is going to be one none of us can predict but the reaction is good - we are disgusted and we are unequivocal and that is good.

Since the banning of certain posters has been raised here, let me assure everybody that we don't ban people here for no reason and in most cases the posters who are banned are multiple offenders with a record of being warned, often several times before a ban is invoked. I have no respect for Caroline Wilson and have criticised her for her appalling comments and views that in some cases border on the idiotic and vexatious. However, I will not permit posters to cross the boundary with tasteless, misogynist schoolboy smut that could for legal reasons see the site closed down. I'll also repeat that on threads that cover sensitive matters, our moderation standards will be tougher than normal and offending posts will be deleted and posters warned where warranted. Now let's stick to the issues of the thread please.

Our favourite journo has just said on FC that the MFC, Connolly, and Bailey will be charged in the next few days. She's unsure as to whether CS will be charged. A few things on what she said, if she's so confident on the others how can she be unclear on Schwab, her main target. The other stupid comment she made was that she didn't know why McLardy defended the players, clearly she hasn't been in on the story of late as accusations were levelled at players fumbling in the last 3 minutes v Tigers. Every time I see her she just makes me want to punch something.

Well the good news is, we can't get done for both tanking, and taking performance enhancing drugs. Take that AFL!

I think it would be more heartbreaking to learn we spent the last decade being rubbish AND we were on drugs. Now that would be disastrous.

..and that's the key point, we can't afford to be found guilty in any way shape or form.

Now there is a good post, with a sentiment I endorse completely.

haha absolute gold, especially from BaxterKeyzy i'd post his comment, bust last time i did i got a warning from a mod!

hows this one from bomberblitz, trolling at it's best! Mate of a mate knows Joe Daniher and he told him he will be having a 2 year holiday without even playing a game from injections he was given last year

Tired? stressed?

Well, now you have put in some context that's a much better post. FWIW i agree with most of it but i don't agree we should roll over and not go to court. I'm sick of "rolling over" and "not standing for anything" Apologies if i have confused you with someone else, but i thought you had made the point a number of times that "we tanked" without defining your meaning. Yes I think we "tanked" and within what the AFL seemed to be saying was acceptable and what they had "allowed" other clubs to do. Everyone has their own definition of "tanking" so I thought just asking the question "do you think we tanked" without any qualification was a bit provocative. Also, we seemed to have had this discussion a thousand times over and it was sounding like a broken record. Again apologies if i mixed up posters

Unequivocally, the answer is no, I do not think we "tanked". I believe we simply operated within a system which was conceived and had life breathed into it by the AFL itself. It was a system put in place that we and others AFL teams used to its greatest affect available at that time.

been wondering that for more than 10 years od. ever since players suddenly started looking like action figures another good reason to reduce rotations and reduce the gut running, continuous maul style of football

BH told me in no uncertain manner that I waffle so I thought a change of avatar was appropriate - however I would like to see BH change his avatar to Mark Latham.

This is where I disagree - a loss is far worse for the AFL as the AFL will (should) be forced by the court definition of what actions constitute tanking to apply the same standard against other teams which participated in the same/similar practices. This would bode badly for Carlton, WCE, Richmond, Collingwood etc.

I'm old enough to have seen flags and would love to see a few more, but if it means the players have to take drugs I'd rather not. I long for the day the players will once again rely on their natural ability and not on some mystery potion that in some cases may even have a detrimental effect on their health down the track. Football may not have been as fast and as spectacular years ago but at least it was honest.

But we let him pick our coaches...

Gary is not your Eddie is he

And so he should. Anything willing to offer as such is a sign of guilt. And more importantly a tainted future (labelled with asterisk) for all to see; for all time. Would you want your club to be tainted if you had the option to defend, defend and defend? (We already are by the 7 month investigation......but getting the all clear after an exhaustive inquisition will give it some gloss) Perhaps an agreement satisfaction that "actual systematic tanking didn't take place", dropped charges, and a whack over the knuckles based on circumstantial and conflicting evidence on individuals?? I'm sure there would be dialogue occurring. Yesterday may have been a day of some discussion of further employment for CC beyond 2013/14...? Who knows..

not if you win

Yes Dan, haven't stirred up my Bomber fan mates about this issue...the last thing an Essendon person requires right now is a little needle.

Footy Classified. What a lame panel of commentators. Garry, GTF out of there. You're losing credibility sitting with those clowns.

99% of them sure behaved like their online personas at the 2000 GF.The longer and harder they suffer the happier I'll be.If Carlscum can some how join the party......rapture.

Not sure that is true Of Please don't take this personally but quite a few on here see her as the the wicked witch of the north and a couple of her articles early in the piece were way over the top. But I find now that if she said it was night time at present they would scream "what are you a meteorologist now. I know it is very difficult but we all have to take a breath . Not everything she says is rubbish

Pure GOLD!

With that set of I'll fitting false teeth I'm surprised she can pronounce any words.

"The ultimate success - is it worth it?"... ask Lance Amstrong

More detail now that i am home! As I said before no Barry and Hogan.Jetta or Davey there today. Viney and Toumpas only did make 25 mins to a half hours training then both left together. Longer drills were mainly ball movement around the ground...changing sides etc but done as one would expect at high intensity. Kicking was better today even though the breeze picked up during the morning. Close in drills were usual smaller groups working on tackling or clearances from ball ups or throw ins. Guys were moving from one smaller group to another and so it was spread around a bit. Weather was warm and mabye this led to 11.10am finish but I'd say that this was always going to be the length of training. Interesting that there actually is minimal drinks breaks considering the work load. Everything involved footys today as one would hope at this time of the year and after watching training at Casey 2 months ago it is noticeable that a few players have bulked up a little eg.Jack Watts Some observations I had... 1. Chris Dawes looks as fit as anyone 2. Trengove ran timed laps after walking about 5 and whilst he is in rehab he looks fit 3. Nathan Stark did 3 of the worst kicks I've ever seen at training with no pressure! 4. Byrnes looks a treat around goals snapping them through left right and centre 5. Watts looks like he SHOULD be there 6. Rodan was pushed to the ground by Howe during a drill and hurt either his wrist or elbow? He came off went into the tent an took no further part. After he ws helped to get off his jumper and GPS he still was turning his wrist and moving his elbow around? That's about it.....basically a good solid session for this time of the year...

Well for the first opportunity i ventured down the paddock I have to preface anything with a disclaimer . I struggled to recognise half of them lol. I also tips me hat to seasoned reporters as how the hell do you guys spot everything !! I might add some detail later when home but some impressions i took away. We're far better but have some work cut out. Things i noticed. Trenners just walked and ran laps. He is either very focussed or a bit forlorn. I dont think hes happy on the sidelines. Dawes is much cleaner with hands than some had given me to believe. Hes sharp and switched on. Rodan is up and about. Masterstroke addition i think. Tommy is a much better kick now but his action is very contrived. When it becomes natural hell be far better. Watts is poised. If only they all kicked like Jack. I didnt sense truckloads of energy ...but thats extremely subjective. Skills on both sides for many im affraid need work. 2m astray and its a turnover. Im really impressed with Jonesy now. And thrn theres the other one. Be not a bit surprised if Matt starts in middle. He LOOKS like he should. Other things might come to mind when home. Do yourself a favour. Study the faces and numbers as this is a different mob lol Now over to better scribes.