Leaderboard

This might sound strange, but I really feel for the guy. He's the first player from his civilization, which is borderline ancient, to play AFL and he's tried to combine two alien worlds. He was lauded as a tribal leader on "men's business", but at the same time was beholden to his own tribal laws (moreso), which in part is why he's in the mess he's in, as laws such as payback for an initiated man mean much more than our "modern laws" and civil expectations. It's impossible to judge Jurrah from the cornerstone of the lives we lead. It's too complex for me, but I feel compelled not to judge a guy whose world has caved in around him. And as much as most will lay the blame at his feet, he's in unusual circumstances and much of it has been out of his control. I expect arguments on the last sentence and I'm usually the first to state that every man is the architect of his own destiny, but I readily accept that Jurrah's circumstances can't be understood by 99% of those reading this forum.

I can do some finger pointing at things the club could be doing better but their handling of this crisis has to date been excellent. 1/ They hadnt seen the evidence from the investigators so they "laid low" - good strategy - dont get into a shitfight with the AFL until you know what cards they are holding. Contrast that to Adelaide - indignant with the AFL that simply had done nothing wrong in the Tippett case right until the AFL laid he evidence on the tableand then they changed their tune in a hurry. 2/ Make it clear with a broad statement " we will fight you and take you to court if necessary" - the club did not actually say what they would fight or who or why - they just sent a clear message that the club would not roll over 3/ Hire the Fink - if you are going to get into a dick waving contest with the AFL - we just showed the AFL that we have John Holmes 4/ Leak the absurdities and negatives of the investigation - if this was the club well done. 5/ Do not come out and say "what about the other clubs" - that is a guilty plea - they did so so did we. There is time enough to bring up accepted precendents if this goes to court ( which I highly doubt) I am more than happy on how the club have handled this matter to date

The suggestion that they ran out of time is ridiculous, the trade period went for a month ffs. He's a nasty piece of work.

I wish I got paid to make up sh!t.

It's somewhat amusing to read the suggestion that if we were to have the temerity to defend ourselves then this must somehow result in bankruptcy. This view explains to me why anyone who would advocate such should never be let near the boardroom let alone the reins. It's naive, amateurish and ultimately detrimental to the club to allow such Lilly livered scaredy cat doctrines to exist. Don't ever enter the schoolyard let alone politics if you haven't the stomach or backbone for it. It's a straw argument to purport we go to court and go broke. This will never go to court nor was it going to. What needed to be understood by the inquisitors was our preparedness to do so, push come to shove. I.e we were/are willing to blow a mighty hole in the ivory tower lest you back off and F off !! It's. ploy, a gambit. But it's a reasonable and real one. It would seem others prefer the course of non confrontation. You might as well urn around bend over and after the raping hand everything over to the League as you must have no enthusiasm for anything that require risk or daring. These people want to plod along at the hem of SS Mediocrity. There is responsible governance and we trust and expect that from a fiscal standpoint but there's the ideal of Leadership. Governance might keep the engines in nick but its Leadership that steers. Sometimes you actually have to swing your boat around directly into the waves in order to stay afloat. It can get rough but any other course may simply capsize you, you're gone. I have spoken to very few people who believe we've taken he wrong path. Funnily enough no one really cares about tanking. It's almost a non issue. ( this from people of many clubs) what is important is how you play the game, the other game, the how you deal with he AFL game.. I had it put to me it's just like Bullies in the Schoolyard. Cowtow and you're theirs. Stand up and the dynamic changes. Yes sometimes you might get whacked, more often you won't. Bullies are cowards. The AFL is just the same. Stand up and show them you aren't mucking around , and more importantly remind them you know where the skeletons are and they'll 'negotiate' armistice. Collingwood do it, Carlton do it, Sydney do it. But some would have he MFC just roll. Have them seek terms even before a judgement. Honestly just how pathetically p!ssweek can some get. It's week and stupid. You're admitting a guilt that needn't be. You're guaranteeing a punishment. That's not Leadership, thats surrender, no that's abdication really. It would not only be a travesty it would be a derilection of position. Sometimes the only way through a minefield is THROUGH the minefield. You simply have to clear away what you can and brace for the rest. I'm not au fait as to who would /could have done a better job, or indeed if any exist. What I am happy enough with is the current board have one way or another got us up and going. We're actually in the black. We're prepared to push back against the oppressors who would have us as sacrificial offering to the deities . It's often said what happens off the field can reflect/effect what happens on he field. I hope so. We're now a team with spirit, prepared to take on all comers, and most poignantly , dare to win. I much prefer that to what we were .

Went as well. Spencer and Jordie McTackle doing boundary throw in routines with some coaches early and left. Not sure whether Dwayne is mixing up David with Tommy Mac, as thought Tommy was one of our best on track, watched his quite closely and was impressed with his generally good disposal and loved seeing how frustrated he got when he didn't do things right, shows a will to win we also see from Chip that I love. Jetta will repay the faith I've always had in him. Have never wavered in my belief he could be a good player, we'll see that this year. Gillies and Sellar impressed. Watts wasn't great by foot today, but the hard running between drills and a few other things were he put in harder than those around him was great to see. Similarly, Blease had me doubting my faith in him, till he took Chip down in a tackle and the threw himself at the ball in a desperate second effort. Terlich impressed, ahead of many who have been on the list longer, was bummed Strauss left so early. Neeld walked 2 or 3 laps with Chunky at one stage, wish I could have eavesdropped! The worries for me today were Couch, Nicho, Davis and Bail. The type of players you want to succeed as they have great attitudes and work their butts off, but their kicking just isn't up to scratch. Byrnes and Rodan looked good out there IMO, but was underwhelmed with Pederson. Thought he was just lazy on the track for a lot of what I saw, only making an effort when the ball was heading his way on full oval drills. If Fitzy works his arse off he could beat Pedo for a spot (not there yet - lot to do). Overall, they looked pretty good, but safe to say a truckload of work to do before the season kicks off.

I don't know why people are looking for big conspiracies when all you need is a few mischief makers who hold grudges against certain individuals to spread some malicious gossip or misinformation to the right people or, in the case of media interviews, simply point them in the right direction as far as asking questions to the interviewee is concerned. I don't believe that anyone who supports the club ever intended that it end up in a tanking enquiry of the nature of the one that's evolved to the present day. If there was a motive it was simply to destabilise and embarrass the current board as we saw happen through 2012 and perhaps to prevent the renewal of someone's contract. Who knows with these things?

I have it on good authority that Denham was going to be traded to Kazakhstan Radio National (KRTastic). They love the stuff that comes out of his mouth because they can sell it to their farmers. SEN were prepared to accept a partly digested egg-roll. Win-win!

Arguably the most extraordinary post I've ever seen on here.

Did all this happen before or after we offered to on trade the second round pick we would have gotten for Watts to Hawthorn for Buddy and Cyril?

So you are comfortable with the mighty big swipe that Gardner took at the club late last year ? In my mind it was neither dignified nor professional and reeked of sour grapes. The brownie points that Gardner scored for the manner of his departure ( and yes it was dignified and without rancour) was more than undone but his unneccessary shots taken at the club regarding tanking. A professional and dignified approach by Gardner would have been to shut up and say nothing.

Really? Cos it seems to me that we tanked sufficiently well, until very recently when Adrian Anderson moved the goalposts and decided on a second investigation. I'd also say that Carlton also did a worse job, yet were lucky in their timing and didn't face the same scrutiny. In fact, all other teams that similarly indulged were lucky - we were simply the unlucky ones to do it immediately preceding the era of it being put under the microscope and retroactively considered unacceptable.

he does not hate the DEES. He got stuck into us on SEN one day and got a reaction on talkback and it grew from there. he now just runs with it to get a reation on radio and fan forums etc all in an attempt to make himself relevent. there are plenty of other hacks who would be lining up to replace his slot on KB's show, so he needs to keep up the charade it's "his thing" just like RObbos is pretending to be angry. Other than that what else is Denham? a dime a dozen "journalist" who can be easliy replaced This applies to 90% of the AFL media all just trying to ensure they keep their jobs by saying/writing making up controversial stuff for the primary purpose of creating a reaction to keep themselves in a job.

Nah, crap. The Gardner board would have got a hiding in an election. that's why they stepped aside, lets be honest. In hindsight I wish the Stynes ticket had refused to negotiate a handover. They probably did it with the right intentions along the lines of your beliefs of 'demonstrating' unity, saving the club a few $. What in fact happens in such negotiated positions is grievances are allowed to continue to bubble underneath, former board members will feel they have retained some legitimacy and that usurps the authority of the new administration. If there are people who believe they could do a better job than those who are up for re-election they simply need to put their hands up individually for the AGM or put together a ticket.

There is quite a gap ( actually a gaping chasm) between an approach to the club and "almost traded".

I think Frawley, McDonald, Watts could be the best tall back combo going around in a couple of years.

I need to take you to task on this. Paul Gardner came out and had his say last year in a very public manner - very unneccessarily in my opinion and with little regard for the club. I have not launched a broadside at him for all the wrongs of the world. I have limited my comments to criticising him for the comments he made at one particular time and I stand by my comments. If you really want to call my criticism "character assassination" then all i can do is retort by suggesting to you that you have not offered an alternative motivation for his comments and short of substance you have gone with character assassination. I ask again - would you care to venture an opinion as to Paul Gardners motivation for his comments ?

Absoulute Garbage, denham just makes stuff up to agitate Melbourne supporters, it's the only thing he has got in the world of too many AFL journos.

The word 'agenda' is brought up when a Demon Fan applauds the stilted and erroneous work of Caroline Wilson with a self-righteous "Keep up the good work, Caro." The word 'agenda' is brought up when Hazy mentions The Vault meeting without noting, as all Demon fans should know by now, that the building that housed this 'controversial' MATCH COMMITTEE meeting was NICKNAME 'The Vault.' These are reasons why you are so overwhelmingly dismissed by a community that you 'imagine' thinks the same way you do. This is no witch hunt and there are some offensive statements and ridiculous things said (welcome to the internet) but don't think it is your right to say on here what you will without being challenged. You are not being persecuted.

My mate is an AFL boundary umpire and he mentioned to me that Melbourne are the only club so far to have requested a boundary umpire to attend training sessions. We have apparently got one down 4 times so far, including on a Sunday, which I thought was interesting as it is outside normal field training days. Not 100% sure why we need an actual boundary umpire to throw the balls in for us when practicing throw in stoppages? Ne way thought I would mention it for those who are interested.

It's been reported that he's suffering from depression. Do people here know what it's like to be battling such an illness? I'm not justifying what he's done. If you're that tanked you face a heavy fine and lose your licence but please have some sympathy for what the man is going through at the present time. If he is suffering from depression or something similar then he might not be fully in control and he and those around him need support rather than contempt.

I really hate the current trend in footy that makes journalists into TV and radio stars. Too many journalists overstate their importance - they are observers for goodness sake, and are are paid to find information and report it. Robbo, Caro, that dick from the footy show with those stupid glasses, Denham, Patrick Smith. All of them should lower their public profile and do their jobs with intelligence and integrity. All of them have their "bunnies" - either player or club - but Denham is NEVER positive. He has some life issues that cause him to vent his spleen on any occasion, and his pathetic stand off with Cameron Shwab is adolescent. I would not allow my teenage boys to drip vitriol like that. I know the ABC commentary can be dray at times, but I listen to them because of Gerard Whately, Drew Morphett, Stan Alves etc... they enjoy a low profile and don't try and lift it by bringing players or clubs lower.

Id be very surprised if someone form the club isnt tasked with keeping an eye on these boards, for any number of reasons. Hi !!!

so after reading the last few pages and getting my daily hit .... is there anymore news on the Tanking ?? is it over yet ?

Looking forward to Jack playing this season down back. I guess it didn't take long for Denham to commence throwing his powder puff grenades at Melbourne in 2013. Who could forget Swan calling in last year to give KB & Denham a serve re: the Carlton-Watts exclusive Denham put forward. Here's the thing, if he's not trying to be interesting or getting a raise out of callers ie.Melbourne Bears, what good is he? Ignore him.

No I don't think that - but they took cheap advantage of a klutz and look where it's ended up. There's plenty of lines of investigation that good journalists don't pursue for the right reasons - this should have been one of them IMO. There's clearly a spectrum of views about Healy and Sheahan - Bub thinks they're part of a conspiracy to bring officers of the club down, you think they're good journalists pursuing a legitimate story, I think they're short-sighted opportunists ... I've never called talk-back radio but if this all plays out to the good for us you'll hear me when Healy and Russell host Wilson later this year.

No I'm not, I thought it was atrocious and self serving. But a comment by a former Chairman some 4 years after he's left the club is not representative of his Board.

I've never bought that the tanking investigation was brought on by a conspiracy against individual club office holders. As RPFC pointed out early in the piece - if it was a conspiracy it was the dumbest conspiracy ever because if successful it was likely to kill the club to remove the officers (which is still a possibility) and would only result in those officers drawing closer together (which has happened). I just think Brock is dumb and Sheahan and Healy are just hungry for any story no matter what the fall-out. I do think it's likely that once AA fired up the investigation in AD's absence, Haddad wanted to make his reputation and flex his muscle and that disgruntled former employees as witnesses saw an opportunity to get back at the club and fueled the fire. Yes - one possible outcome is that officers of the club go down while the club gets off relatively unscathed, officers who mis-managed the tanking and it's aftermath, and yes some posters will not be sorry to see those officers get replaced - but I completely and utterly reject any notion that there's a conspiracy to make this happen and that's what this is all about.

I take your word for it that he is a capable and decent bloke but he absolutely lost me when he potted the club . Brock McLean is a dill and know no better but an ex-president should know better. When Paul Gardner came out in the press late last year he was thinking only of Paul Gardner not the Melbourne Football Club

Hopefully we'll finish too high to consider a top 5 pick. The other reason we might not get a top 5 pick is too terrible to contemplate.

The word "agenda" is thrown around here regularly when wanting to discredit someone's position. I've been accused of wanting the club to fail, bring it to it's knees and sacrifice it for the purpose of ridding it of individuals. That's rot. I have argued that various people in the administration and on the Board in the club should be replaced. But what is completely misunderstood, leading to assertions of "standing for the Board" is the manner in which I think it should be done. Many of those who are passionate supporters of the administration also denigrate the performance of the past Board and like all these situations there is good and bad to be found in all administrations. One of the exceptional things the Gardner Board did was hand over control of the Club to the Stynes administration in the most dignified and positive of manners. There was no fight, there was no name calling and there was no ugly media coverage. There was sensible discussion between two parties over what was best for the club, points of difference were dealt with and they got on with the job. It was the right thing to do and it was done very very well. It actually showed the professionalism of the Gardner Board who could, if they wished, forced us to a general election. When I, and I imagine the majority, of people here suggest that people from the club should be replaced I'm not talking about a coup, I'm not talking about public humiliation for those i think should step down. I want to see them treated with respect and dignity, I want a well managed process where one person is replaced by another. In a way it's no different to debating whether Jamar or Spencer should be our first ruckman, it's a simple difference of opinion as to who would be better.

I think we need to look at this from a different view. Lets take our "Demon" goggles off for a sec. Here is a 24 year old kid. He's potentially looking at a jail term. He's essentially unemployed. He's obviously going through a tough time. He seems from the outside a bit lost. Its very easy for us to feel the aggrieved now that he is no longer a Dee, but lets wish him the best and hope he gets the guidance and support he needs as a young man to live a good life. Lets show some compassion for a fellow person who is in a tough situation.

Welcome one and all to the Demonland Troll Party. They're all here at the same time waiting to be fed but please - nothing more than peanuts for this lot.

So sad when people lose control of their lives. A few years ago LJ was one of football's feel good stories; how much has that changed. As for the rubbish being written in this post. Condemn the act but please lets have some compassion for the person. Is Liam dealing with the difficulties in his life badly? No doubt. But few of us can comprehend the extent of the challenges he has faced and many would struggle cope just as much. It's never too late to turn it around Liam. All the best.

Thanks to those who liked the article. As was obvious, a lot of the info came from my regular reading of Demonland and Ology. To those who didn't like it, a lot of what you say, I agree with. I'm not sure where I stand on the amnesty business - 'no case to answer' and an apology for the harassment would be a fairer result, but I'll take anything. With the other articles published today, perhaps there is a change in the atmosphere which can only benefit us. Carrot Top - yes - I agree - wish I had done more of a rant. As I said in another post, I wrote the article in a rush not long after Caro's piece, but the issue had kind of gone off the boil by then (I'm a slow writer - not a journalist's a-hole, alas), so the editor said they'd reconsider it if and when things hotted up. After the latest idiotic revelations (as if we ever needed any inducement to fumble the ball!) , I had started to write a much stronger piece - opening line was: "I barrack for Melbourne and I'm as mad as hell." (Actually, I think my original article was a bit stronger - I had a choice paragraph about Brock and his connection to the Morans, but that seems to have got the chop - probably defamatory) Stopped when I saw they'd published the piece this morning. Nutbeam - if you are in fact my wife, you should be at work. If you are me, then the situation is more critical than I could have imagined. Cheers

Swan said the story was absolute BS that Carlton had approached or were even interested in Jack Watts, he was really annoyed about the story and put Denham right back in his box. Now Denham has backed down and said it was Malthouse that had shown some interest, not Carlton. Well Malthouse was one of Jack's mentors last year under the blessing of Mark Neeld so go figure that one. As for the current story I think 'Ben' is on the money.

Sue very simply if one had an intention of conspiring against the club the last think you'd do is mount an attack on it through Demonland. If that was indeed part of a strategy I wouldn't be very worried about the conspiracy.

Of course they had a choice. They simply made the right choice, and went quietly without any blood letting. Anybody that has even the remotest connection with PG, would understand that he is a very decent and capable bloke. That said, we very much needed a change in Administration at that time, in my view.

Geez I wonder why Gardner didn't call an election...

Believing that we could have a better President or CEO does not automatically lead to running for that position. Many here believe we could have a better Prime Minister but are very unlikely to be standing at the next Federal election. It seems to me that the point Hazy is making is not that the Board and the CEO should held responsible by us for tanking - because that's what the vast majority of us wanted them to do - but that they should be held responsible by us for tanking badly - being indiscreet and not managing the people involved well. It's very hard to argue against that.

Reading this thread over the last couple of days has convinced me of one thing. If the people posting here really are planning to stand for the board as some allege, I wouldn't vote for them (if I knew who they were). There just has to be other candidates able to present an argument without resorting to personal abuse.

I was thinking last night about the comments made that CS and CC have trashed the brand. I think it needs to be asked if that belief is because we "list managed" and in Baileys words " did what was best for the club" in 2009 or because of the current predicament we are in. The 2009 actions and the 2012/13 outcome needs to be viewed separately simply because the actions taken in 2009 were something that 6 other clubs did and their brands were not trashed. The outcome has inflicted damage on us and for this I cast the blame of the trashing directly at the AFL and the media and I base this specifically on one reason - "selectiveness". If the AFL and the attack dog media investigated and brutalised all clubs that have been party to these types of actions then I am happy for our administrators to cop a caning. If you believe that the MFC, WCE, Hawks, Collingwood, Stkilda and Richmond administrators were wrong in the actions they took in taking advantage of a flawed system that the AFL put in the place then fair enough, lump CS and CC in with all of the above and cane them.

i wonder how this thread would look if we used our real names?

I agree with the bolded part. In terms of the importance of keeping things in house this applies to those that have left the club as much as those still at the club. Once someone has left the organisation obviously the board or CEO are not responsible for managing them. In this scenario it would appear that much of the stuff that has been damaging has potentially been leaked by people who have left the club.

My comment was in response to Hazy saying the board, CS and CC 'did the wrong thing - not tanking, but getting caught out and letting things get to where they stand now'. In my view the poisonous politics is why we alone are in the gun and why things have got to where they stand now. Too many axes, too much grinding and too many people prepared to go after each other to the detriment of the club. The politics didn't have anything to do with the choice to maximise our draft position (not tanking). Taking that path was standard practice across the league. What CS and the board can be criticised for is not taking the road less travelled and decide to not go for the carrot. For me this would be hindsight I was ambivalent at the time but can see the strength of the arguments that the path we took negatively impacted on our culture. However if they had not chosen to prioritise draft picks they would have been criticise by many and as Eddie McGuire noted it was considered to be good business practice (and still is - as evidenced by GWS's decision to maximise the likelihood of getting the number 1 draft pick by fielding an uncompetitive side against GC) Interesting to compare us to Carlton. There will be a handful of very angry people leaving the club with MM coming on board and people staying who were upset with how Ratten were treated. There will no doubt be fall out but i suspect we won't hear about much about it and they will keep in house, something the dees seems incapable of doing

awesome point, especially , coming , from , someone , who , writes , like , this

Pretty confident Dunn will be a starting back Rnd 1. Reported he's in top nick.

Who cares if you drive through Adelaide drunk? What are you going to hit ,seriously? A Church. A tree. A roo. Get him and Dale back here and lets party .

I know this is being said in hindsight but I was always concerned when he made the decision to go to Adelaide. I understand that it was his call and that he has a large family there who would be well nigh impossible to relocate to Melbourne and that there is a large part of the Yuendumu community living in exile there but I can't help but think he might have been better off being looked after by his mentor Rude Boy whilst remaining in training under an AFL regimen. I hope he gets through this safely and can return to his original task when he first came here four years ago. It ain't going to be easy.

the thing is though even if we are completely exonerated tomorrow, we've already copped a huge blow to our brand and we did not deserve it.. and we would be in the top 3 clubs who LEAST needs such problems. Brock McLean should be strung up.