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Whoever suggested it was going to be a light session, got it horribly wrong. It wasn't the hardest I have been to but it was no fun run either. I spotted Trenners in his new shoe attire, also on crutches. The bright side, is it will help build his upper body walking around with the aid of crutches. Today's session consisted of a few warm up laps,then some ball movement broken into two groups and firing handballs towards a running player. It was done in a way that they would do the drill in a clockwise movement, fire handballs as quickly as possible,with the player that gave the handball, putting light pressure on the receiver before he gave it off. It was fast and sharp with not many fumbles. Another session was concentrating on a match sim, the backs clearing from the backline to a leading player, or if that option wasnt on, then he should divert it ,to across the ground to the opposite halfback flank, then they player would look upfield to pass to another on the half forward flank, who in turn would take a bounce,and pass to a leading foward. This drill was a practice moving the ball, quickly and accurately from the backline to a the forwards. Again the skills were good, but with no pressure, I would expect it to go well. The last session I got to see before leaving early, was they had the players in 3 groups. One group practising defensive skills, like a high ball coming in the punching the ball towards the boundrary. Another group were the mids, they were running through a drill,from a tapout to firing a handball to a 'running' player. (Note: Not to someone standing flat footed as we have witnessed in the past) then that player would handball 20 mtrs to 2 players players heading towards the goals. Looked good under no pressure. if they get that drilled into them often enough we might see some decent centre clearances. The 3rd group were doing a drill where the ball was thrown up by one of the coaches, 2 players contesting, then tapped down to be scouted by a running small and then have a running shot on goal. If all the above was considered a light run, in the Bailey are, it would have been a hard hitout. Overall a good session,and concentrated mostly on ball movement from one end to the other. Most had some decent colour, looked to me they had been sunning their time away elsewhere in the country. Blease must have been locked up inside all day, still looked pale: sunscreen factor 50+ for young Sam. The latest rumour ... I shouldn't spread rumours, right? Apparently, they had to put down a croc after it broke all of its teeth,trying to latch onto J.Viney. Urban myth? In closing, I had a quick chat to the coach, he still thinks we have a way to go before he considers them to be at a level fitness-wise where he thinks they should be. More games etc. but was very happy with everyone's progress thus far. Just even up the ledger. No 12 wasnt holding back, he looked fit and was involved and doing well. I thought I'd throw that in, as the last time I watched he wasn't doing a lot. To make a proper assessment I want to see how they stand up against some opposition. Will it all fall apart or are we going to take what we practice into a real game? They have made some big inroads into me being confident next year, but I've been down this path before. But I like what I am seeing. Everyone have a safe and wonderful Xmas and New Year.

When I was in Melbourne I spoke with Jack Grimes. He told me he was not injured in any way. He has been put in the rehab group because he is on a modified running programme to get some more ks and strength into his legs and core strength. He also mentioned he is on a modified programme in the gym. He was conducting sprint sessions when I was there and is very quick and extremely fit. He is fine and raring to go. FNQ Demon

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2012-12-17/casey-scorpions-appoint-vic-metro-coach?utm_medium=RSS'>Casey Scorpions appoint Vic Metro coach He's had a fair amount of success as a coach of junior footballers and was named the All Australian coach in 2011 and assistant to the AA coach this year. These are the type of credentials you would look for in your alignment coach if you have a young list you want to develop through your VFL club. It suggests to me that the emphasis at Casey will be very different in 2013 than it has been in previous years and the club's ladder position is going to be secondary to the aim of bringing our young players on to the point where they can move seamlessly into top company. The VFL traditionalists might not be happy with this approach but it makes sense from Melbourne's point of view and given that the Demons have plenty of full time coaches on staff, the fact that the Casey coach is only part time might not be such a big issue in this context.

I'm not defensive, I'm sick of the thoughtless responses to serious ideas. On this thread it is being argued that wins are not a reasonable way to measure performance. This site has gone so far into itself that posters are actually arguing that wins don't count. Mark Neeld coached one of the most insipid teams I have ever seen. One of the least competitive teams I have ever seen. And posters are suggesting that Bailey somehow winning 10 or so games is less impressive that Neeld effectively winning one. Now, I'm all for a nuanced understanding of team style and needing to go backwards to go forwards but i'd also like to win a game. Neeld needs to see us win quite a few this year to show that he knows what he is doing.

Your 14 year old son sounds smarter than most of us Demonlanders combined.

Colin Sylvia

Craig has the character and maturity to evolve. Whereas Malthouse just wants to shove it up Eddie.

It is really quite startling how two games against Collingwood and one against Sydney still endures in the minds of people who think 'we were really not that bad'... I was a defender of Bailey and then in 2011 - my own thread of KPIs showed the fraud of what was happening ( http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25041-rpfcs-measurement-of-2011/) - demolishing insterstate teams and being so thoroughly dismantled by the better sides. It's disheartening and tough to let go of firmly held beliefs but when the facts are staring you in the face, it just seems foolish to keep up the pretences.

Most times you can tell when you are being spun a line. Or you get the usual 'we are taking one week at a time'. Mark Neeld came across as sincere, He added they (the players) have a way to go, but they realise they cant load them up with too much work load, or they will be dropping like flies, and or getting injured. he wasnt playing it down (optimisic) I got an honest answer on where we are at. Its going to take time. I was hoping he would say they are where he wants them. But he didnt, he told it as it was. He spoke to me like we knew each other well. No putdowns or an abrupt tone. He greeted me 1st, I was a bit taken back, as I wasnt expecting to be noticed. But I did stand out like a sore thumb. I get the feeling they appriecate supporters making the effort to observe training. If anyone can make an effort to get to training, even if its means putting yourself out a little, I am positive it wont go unnoticed by the staff or the players. If the timing is right, you can have a quick chat with the fitness coaches , players and Mark Neeld. In this point in time, is when they need support and encouragement. Instead of 5 people we got 50, we could fast track their progress. We'll get that easly when they are successful and winning games. But right now, if anyone can, I encourage them to make a effort, and show their support at training. I spoke to Trenners, one of his 1st questions to me was, I suppose you have been through all the bad times? So they do care, they realise we are overdue, they are doing their best to retify it.

You mean the record where we never beat ANY of the Victorian teams (except the odd fluke and our yearly wins against a developing Richmond), and where a lot of the wins came from beating out of town teams at the MCG? Throw into that the odd interstate win (Port in Darwin, Lions at the Gabba) and you have Bailey's wins. As for the 6% against non-startup teams, even that's a stat of your own fabrication. Go back a few years and Richmond were as bad or worse than GC or GWS, and some of the others at that time weren't much better - it wasn't for nothing that Freeo, Adelaide, Essendon and the Dogs all sacked their coaches. Your stats don't really tell much of a story, yet alone the whole story.

Thanks for all the detail Deevoted. A bit of a wake up call to hear that they still have a way to go before they are at the level of fitness Neeld expects. Just shows you how far they've got to go from what he inherited. I spoke to Neil Craig at the Sydney function during the season and he said he thought they'd be competitive from about mid 2014 onwards. Sounds like Neeld's and Craig's expectations for 2013 even with all these great Darwin camps etc are not too optimistic. They seem to have a real strong handle on what the benchmarks are for the top competitive teams and where our group is in relation to them. I'd rather get that reality check now than get unrealistic expectations for next year based on all these great training notes. My 14yr old son told me to have a look at some of the other club's sites to see what training they are doing. Funnily enough all of them are saying exactly the same things i. e came back in best pre season shape ever. Are all setting PB's right off. Everything we've been hearing. At least we've got Misson and Craig so we can feel confident that they know when they set a benchmark for training that it is an accurate one.

They were also not as disappointing and soul destroying 'toward the end of the year' as they were in that game... And to be blunt - F___ the players. They have been coddled for years and 2011 showed them for what they were. If he gave them some home truths and let it be known publicly - good! At least they will know where they are at: "Will the same 22 travel to Perth? Not on your life," Neeld said as he vowed changes for the Dees' clash with West Coast next weekend. "Am I going to go down a similar road and continue to put blind faith in players? No way. Absolutely, no way. "This industry, it's accountable. I'm accountable. So I should be. So are these blokes (players)." And that is as bad as it got - if this was a public scorning - we are being a bit precious.

lol. If you're B$-ing, you're off topic jnr.

mjt - Respectfully, you are missing the point. We all know that those that want guns will always be able to get them but the restrictions we have lessen the ability of the mentally unstable and the temporarily unstable (domestic violence, etc) from easily obtaining guns. It also means that with a few smart restrictions, Obama can do something to keep less destructive guns, with shorter magazines, in the hands of those that are able to get around the waiting periods (which don't apply in private sales, and gun shows. If Obama can make it illegal for anyone other than rural land owners, and certified hunting club members from having anything other than handguns he has done a great job and they will see theses events disappear and be much smaller in scale. The US will be overrun by the Zombie apocolypse in 2453 before they give up their handguns...

Indeed, the 'right to bear arms' was written into the US Constitution not for self-protection but in the context of the citizenry having the means to overthrow a tyrannical government (i.e. at that time the British). I'm sure it wasn't meant to be machine guns and assault weapons to overthrow a democratically-elected 21st-century government. Perhaps if they want their constitutional right, all the arms US citizens ought to be able to bear now are muskets.

Texan Republican congressman Louie Gohmert "I wish to God she [slain school principal Dawn Hochsprung] had had an M-4 [assault rifle] in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out … and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids." Half a Country is in denial. "the right to keep and bear arms" applied to 19th century America, we're in the 21st century now, time to get with the times. After reading the various articles effectively its the NRA that run the country, being silent financial donors to various political parties and congressmen and women. They're the ones that have blood on their hands. Thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the victims.

The buy-back in Australia of automatic and semi-automatic guns, plus licensing and ownership restrictions, cut firearm suicides by 74%, or 200 lives a year. Firearm homicides have dropped by 59%. The proportion of Australian homes with a gun is now only 8% (mainly farms), which is half what it was before the buy-back. Easy access to guns in a household causes situations where there is argument and violence to escalate to dangerous levels ... often ending in 'get the gun first and think later'. Easy access to guns, particularly semi-automatic weapons, by intelligent but low-esteem young male 'loners' is the common denominator with Newtown, Port Arthur, Columbine and a host of other US school shootings. So perhaps the greatest thing the buy-back achieved is that there hasn't been a mass shooting in Australia since Port Arthur over 16 years ago. Finally a cartoon about the American gun psyche. One gun lobbyist has already said "if the teachers were armed with M-16s they would have avoided the tragedy".

I know this is a commonly held view on Demonland but it's not necessarily one I agree with. Bailey coached close to the youngest group in the AFL in 2010 and 2011 and he coached to their strengths therefore maximizing their chance of success. And while this was based on fast ball movement and a very attacking gameplan there is no reason to suggest that as the players got older, fitter and stronger they would not have developed the defensive skills and running ability of the top teams. I know that Bailey's strategy led to large swings in results and we regularly got beaten up by teams such as Hawthorn, Geelong and WC but it also showed some very significant promise against Swans and Collingwood. It also allowed us some big wins against other clubs such as Adelaide and Freo at the G and some consistent performances against the likes of Richmond and Essendon. Young teams getting beaten up by older powerhouses is to be expected but the significantly good performances against others showed more potential than anything we saw this year. I know that in order to feel good about the Club it's necessary to blame Bailey for everything and praise Neeld but it's not that simple. In 2012 we focused on defence and the groupthink round here would have it that this was a necessary first step. But we conceded almost exactly the same score against us as the previous year albeit that we played three games against development clubs compared to two the previous year. To compound the situation we kicked 400 less points and had a 20% drop in percentage. Despite putting all our efforts into stopping the opposition scoring and blowing us away our losing margin increased significantly. I'm very happy to forget 2012 as a learning year. Much went wrong, Neeld was new and learning on the job and the players were dealing with a new game plan. But the reality is we now have a significantly better list than Bailey had in 2011, we have significantly more resources within our footy department, the players have had time to learn and implement a new game plan and we have several years benefit of the facilities of AAMI. I know that setting a benchmark for Neeld is difficult because we all want him to succeed and we all want success. Setting a benchmark which he fails to reach will threaten all of us because we are all utterly sick and tired of failure after 6 years. But that doesn't mean we should go easy. He's certainly not going easy on the players and he wouldn't expect us to go easy on him. Can anyone really suggest that we shouldn't be better in 2013 than we were under Bailey in 2010 and 2011? Given our draw that must mean 10+ wins although with the responses to this thread I get the impression that not many think that's possible. The stat that does tell the whole story is 15 wins for Bailey in 2010 and 2011 against non development clubs and 1 for Neeld in 2012. That's just a plain fact and it's a pretty terrible one. It's time for the Club to produce.

No, it will... But, like this time, it will be the first time I have ever spelled a word wrong... *Please note how normal people converse when others correct their behaviour/spelling - with good humour and an easy nature. (rpfc's Free Advice #12) **This is not directed at you mjt.

Watched the open mile with Tony last night. They covered quite a few topics. His love for John Coleman as a player even had mike sheahan questioning if he was exaggerating. Tony spoke of the norm smith interview. Said it was tense but also like the footy show now, we're well aware of the ratings. Norm ignored large sums of money from rival tv and radio stations to do that interview as he was employed by that network . A man of principal. Tony didn't subscribe to the norm smith curse but was a big fees fan. Really insightful guy who commented on today's broadcast, how wonderful the tv footage is now, rated Tim lane, mcavaney and commeti as best commentators today. Given the broadcasts infinite supply of camera shots, angles and the huge coverage now he then suggested there may be one negative. He then quoted John Kennedy and said we have lost our sense of wonderment. Could have listened to him for hours. A sad loss.

realistically I can gaurantee three things that will happen next year - 1. we will put in a solid showing against a good side and we will all bask in the glorious future that awaits. 2. we will play some utterly putrid football and we will discuss how the list is rotten and Neeld needs to go. 3. At the end of the year opinion will be divided about whether or not we are progressing, stagnating or going backwards

Yes we are looking great but so are the other clubs. It's like the racing story where the jockey says I saw the gap and went for it, except the gap was going faster than I was. Until we see the boys in matches, it is really hard to get a handle on where we are at.

I got there at 3pm and they were already well underway. Joining the main group were Sylvia, Evans, Kent, Turlich, Clisby and Stark. I didn't see Matt Jones, Hogan or Trengove (obviously). The rehab group was Grimes, Dunn, Dawes, Gawn and Clark and they were running on one of the other ovals. Watts was just doing some gentle jogging but not for long. He disappeared inside soon after. Taggert was also doing laps Clark came back half way through and also went inside. Training was sharp and as hard as usual, not the "light" session as mentioned although it was all finished by 4.30. They did the usual drills. Davey surprised me, he was quick on the lead and took one grab marks above his head 5-6 times in a row, but like all of the forwards his shots for goal were fairly poor. Byrnes was particularly poor kicking 1 out of the 5-6 shots I saw him take. Fizpatrick was again prominent in the 300m sprints, clearly the fastest of the big guys. Sylvia was lagging at the back with Crouch. Jetta and Davey stuggled on the repetative sprints also Gillies and Macdonald in their sprints. Barry did very well in all of what I saw him do and Pedersen likewise. Tynan looked good, moved well and kicked well as did Strauss and Evans, Toumpas moves well but he's not as big as his photos suggest, at least next to his team mates he looks light. Stark and Clisby did laps after the first few drills but are quite light framed as you would expect. Terlich moved and kicked well and with good pace as did Tapscott. All the usual seniors did well, Jones, Frawley, Garland but I was really concentrating on the 'fringe' guys. I don't take notes so this is what I remember.

WGAF.

Well, I rest my case...

Try telling that to Ron Jeremy

No worries. I have an old school teacher who has built Mt. Paranoia in his back shed. We iften race in the dark with lights. Awesome fun.

Get with the program Tim, we're here to delude ourselves.

And if we do that then its reasonable to expect that we should be competitive and better than a number of fellow cellar dwellers. I think to look at the games won in isolation is naive. But to ignore our disposition relative to other Clubs after the complete season would be foolhardy in the extreme. And given the crud MFC supporters had to live through last year and the underwhelming performance for the past five years, they should be more than entitled to measure improvement in terms of games won/lost. Quoting a plethora of stats when our win loss record is no better than last year is going to be unconvincing and hollow. Its already been said why we should be better prepared and resourced under Neeld than before. It would be extremely disappointing if this wasnt reflected on the scoreboard.

I say this every year and I know it annoys but I will say it again - wins and losses and ladder position is an irrelevant measure for our situation. They are legislatively important but useless measures for anyone not a chance for the top 4, and to a lesser extent, the top 8. I expect us to get better with our abysmal uncontested possession and Inside 50 rate, and begin to push into the positive in our contested possessions and clearance rates. And, yes, if we do that consistently we will win games, but more importantly we will not be humiliated against the better teams. Because at the end of the day, who cares about a couple of wins against middling teams if you are a source of mirth and sick enjoyment of the teams that matter, and will matter, for the next few years.

Agreed. That article I quoted by Dvorak in the Washington Post finished with this: "But America already knows how this is going to go. We are getting scary good at this. There will be school counsellors and vigils and maybe some protests. We will all hug our kids extra hard. I don't know if I'm going to be able to let my kindergartner and third-grader go to their sleepover this weekend, I won't be able to let them go. There will be great work done by reporters in the next few weeks uncovering how the shooter was able to get his hands on the weapons. We'll probably learn that he was mentally ill, that there were holes in the safety net and everyone around him saw the signs, but our treatment of mental health issues is lacking, our care incomplete and our system broken. Schools will re-examine safety procedures. It's going to be even harder for the babysitter to come to pick up a child or for mum to drop off a forgotten lunch because of new ID checks and security guards hired by the school district. And somehow, parents are going to agree to this madness because, what else can you do? The drills for surviving during a school shooting will now begin in kindergarten. Pre-school board meetings will discuss whether this should be looked into. Board members will nod sagely. What else can you do? Sandy Hook will become a database entry, next to Columbine and Stockton and Virginia Tech. What's not going to happen? Nothing will change when it comes to guns in America."

Some are but some arent. The lie is there are some sections of the community will always be vulnerable and that guns wont solve anything. You and I know that. But some of our duelling banjo cousins wont. Its not just a matter of Obama having the cajones its going to have to be the Congress/Senate and State legislatures that need them collectively. And this is where the NRA will divide and conquer. I am pessimist that we will see more than words and soft legislation that means nothing.

An article from the Washington Post cites a report from the Children's Defense Fund in the USA, which showed that in 2008 and 2009, 5740 children — “one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years” — were killed by guns. In 2008, 408 of them were under the age of 15; 148 were under 10. A year later, 354 under 15 and 151 under 10 were killed by gunfire. All in all, 34,387 children were wounded by guns in those two years. That's total lunacy and Rhino is right about 'innocent vulnerable defenceless children' and the misdirected preference for guns over children's safety. This article: More is done to protect guns than to protect children (originally from the Washington Post, re-produced in The Age on Sunday) hits the nail on the head. To quote: "We live in a society (USA) that makes it very, very easy to kill kids, although we want to pretend that it isn't true. Because the kids gunned down in Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday were swaddled in federally regulated, fire-retardant blankets, rode in elaborate car seats plastered with safety stickers, learned to ride bikes with elbow pads, knee guards and safety helmets and were never left alone with a plastic bag. Cribs, bouncy seats, cough medicine, scooters, sugary snacks — we have no problem regulating the everliving life out of those. But how do we keep them safe in their sweet, little elementary school when we live in a culture that has convinced itself to accept guns?"

True story - I was torn on how to vote and I voted with my head and voted "merge" - I went to the letterbox at the end of my street and popped the letter into the hole and then felt ill - I sat by that letterbox feeling sick and waited for the pickup and talked to the postie when he arrived to collect the mail - of all things he was a Hawks supporter understood my agony and we retrieved my letter, I ripped it up, got new forms the next day and sent off a "no merge" vote

Their fitness and natural atheleticism is something that all our players should aim for but we also have to be careful in that the likes of T Mac, Nicho and Jonesy are exactly that - phenomenal athletes - that doesnt mean they go above and beyond the call or can be called leaders ( Jones in my opinion is one player that does) I have a great love for Joel Mac - turns the ball over and makes some really dodgy decisions - yet I have never seen him once shirk an issue - or go less than 100% at a contest or drop his head. Come better times he wont be in the team because of his shortcomings but I admire him none the less - I have watched him train - he is not the first the past the finishing line and is far from a natural athlete but he gives 110% on the track none the less. Every footballer on our list should be thinking to themselves - "I have the talent to kick the ball well and make decent decisions but if I can just emulate Joel Mac's commitment to the contest then I will be a better footballer"

Well...purely conjecture...but My take is it took a while to land a coach purely because what WE saw as needs and desired qualities and what possibly Casey saw as theirs werent quite on teh same page. i note that the coach chosen has distinct experience with younger players and development strategies. Now wouldnt that be EXACTLY what wed look for as a club in a Junior development coach ? Casey might have looked to a more VFL style experienced bloke.One whos priorities might have been finals and glory for Casey. Can you see the difference ?? Who have they got ?? So im guessing we wont that battle. Just my take on it I know

i'm glad that i was too young to know anything about this when it was happening!

Over 4 years Bailey's team never had a defensive bone in their collective body, yet we're being told by Fan that in time it may have come. That's a stretch too far for me. They never bothered training to implement or defend the forward press over his last preseason, yet other clubs had spent 2-3 years perfecting it. In reality, he didn't know where the game was going. I don't understand how long time posters could take any solace out of victories over Adelaide, Brisbane, Port, or Freo at the G. Three of those clubs have since changed coaches after stagnating and the other had a novice with a rebuilding side. And three of those 4 clubs were bottom 4 in 2011. The reason Bailey's last side had less scored against it is because they were winning games of footy against other mediocre teams, such as the ones just mentioned. It's obvious that when you're kicking goals the opposition isn't. But just as obvious is that Bailey's teams' lack of accountabilty and gameplan wouldn't hold up against good opposition regularly, let alone finals. To think that after 4 years he was going to suddenly introduce them to the word "defence" (in any meaningful way) is a self-serving argument. Some clubs just do things differently. Matty Lappin went from Carlton to Collingwood as an assistant coach a couple of years back. He said that at Carlton 80% of the focus was on offence, but at Collingwood 80% was on defence. Bailey went to Ratten's school of coaching. But it's defence that wins finals and premierships. Neeld didn't have the support of a woeful senior group and has had to endure the most wretched start to a coaching career in VFL/AFL history. If supporters can't see that then they don't want to. That said, the honeymoon is over. The list is now largely what he wants and he's had another preseason to get them fitter and playing how he wants; and I expect to see some genuine improvement in the year ahead. For me 8 wins is a bare minimum and 10/11 ought to be a distinct possibility - subject to injuries.

Faulty MFC Website just before christmas. #firstworldproblems

Tony Charlton, the Media commentator Norm Smith chose to speak to in 1965 after he was sacked has died this Morning. A voice that i and many others grew up with.. "I am Mebourne Tony...I am Melbourne... Rest in Peace Mr Charlton.

Its good to get a bit of a reality check. The competition doesn't stand still. I get the feeling that in the Bailey years we recruited andtrained as if it would. The game plan we worked towards was out of date before we were half way there. It's scary to think that you have to improve just to stand still. But with bigger bodies on our list and a more competitive culture you'd have to believe that we'll improve more than most You'd expect the players to be as flat as tacks this week. Sounds like there is still life in the group ........... which is great Thanks to all the reporters

Robert Johnston funeral details: ROBERT Johnston, who played 30 matches with Melbourne from 1950-52, passed away last week. His funeral will be held this Thursday, December 20 at 10am. Details: Gateway Chapel, Cnr.Wells Road and Thames Promenade, Chelsea Heights Please note: No flowers by request. Instead, donations in lieu to Cabrini Hospital would be appreciated. Envelopes available at chapel. Private cremation. Another Demon gone to the big footy oval. RIP Condolences to Family and friends

They are all done by Telstra. Its a mess. ANd they are so far behind modern best practice its a joke. But they pay $150m a year to the AFL. End of argument.

Trivialise this thread? You're kidding aren't you Redders?

More a 'what' than a 'who' Would like to see the whole team display a 'Never say die' attitude in every game . A 'Never give in' stance doesn't take skill or any god given talent . It's a mindset which all our players can display . The players have got to want to be successful and a hatred of losing should be shared right across the board . If we do that, there will be plenty of excitement .

You're letting your emotions get the better of you. There's nothing to gain from this proposal other than messing with the young man's head. He's been given his one shot at a career, the last thing he should be doing is spending a precious season thinking about being elsewhere. He needs to focus. We say thanks anyway, we wish him well, we shut the door behind him.

No.. Just the mag , rest comes later Horrible woman lol

Bit of a backhander to Beamer there maybe? Dancing right on his grave...don't mind it...at all

I think you'll find that once the list has been settled after the National draft and/or preseason draft you'll find these details will be updated prior to the start of next season. I think the club have better things to do than letting supporters (and the opposition) that some players have put on a few kilo's here or there during the season. Sometimes I think some of us are like a high maintenance girlfriend. Gippy