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Good post. I feel the same. I am 60 and have supported them all my life. My wife and kids the same. Never seen them win a flag. Copped [censored] from other clubs fans all my life but never strayed. I started the first supporters club magazine, called Demon's World. I started a supporters group called the Premier's Club. I have been a Director of the club. I have been Team Manager of the club. I brought in a new President, Wayne Reid. I am a Foundation member. I am a sponsor. I enjoy Demonland. I have given all my hope and soul to this club. I don't want anything but success for the club. I have watched Boards fight each other. I was even part of one big fight. I nearly cried at the merger meeting when I saw the way people treated the late Tiger Ridley, a true Demon great. I have seen the club tear itself apart. This year I watched as Jim passed away, not long after two other Demon greats in Sean Wight and Stewart Spencer. I watched a sponsor stuff us up. I watched the Jurrah situation. I watched as our Coach was falsely called a racist. I watched the team get smashed week after week. I watched the media go to town on us and they still are. It just seems so unfair. Other teams cheat and win Premierships. We are the only team to win a game that losing would have given us a priority pick and we did it twice. When we did get a pick the kid spent a year lying to us and his dying President before the AFL took him away from us. There is so much more i could go on about. We seem to spend all of our time worrying about our club. It nearly makes you want to cry and give up. However that is just not acceptable as I have my children and grandchildren who I want to one day enjoy success that I have been denied. Stop the fighting amongst each other and all get behind the club. If we lose draft picks I want this club to fight all the way and I mean all the way. We owe it to those who came before and those who will come after. I don't give a rat's arse what we have to do to prevail in this situation, I just want it done. If we have to bring in every other club or destroy Demetriou or hurt the AFL I don't give a sh-t anymore. I have had enough. Yes we may have been naughty but no different to many other clubs yet we alone once again are copping it. Our brand is being trashed and our future hampered and in fact put at real risk. We have 40 or so players who want to win for us and we need to support them. I don't care how dirty we need to be just do it. We are seen as a weak club. NO BLOODY MORE. If we lose draft picks, we should hit the Courts, rally at the AFL and show the rest of the clubs that we are here to stay. Sorry for the rant, I have just had a gutful.

I woke up yesterday morning and read this tweet from the Melbourne Age Now that's a bold statement and quite definitive but the problem is that on reading the five articles on the subject, I found speculation, innuendo, several flawed examples of logic (or rather lack thereof) and the obligatory failure to check facts but absolutely no "detail". No detail whatsoever to confirm the allegation in this sordid little tweet but I did discover that it now is a crime for one club to hold meetings and discuss matters affecting the club. The ubiquitous blind Freddie would tell you that the tanking debate was a live issue at the club in 2009. We were reminded of it on a weekly basis and most supporters hated knowing that we were better off losing than winning. Fortunately, the players (as poor as they were) look like being our salvation. They didn't need counsel from blind Freddie to know where our priorities lay but they have confirmed that there was no edict from on high to them to throw matches. That they apparently banded together at ¾ time with a determination to win the game (which they nearly did) should seal it. There was no tanking as consistently defined by the AFL over the past decade.

There is absolutely no glory in running down the club at the moment. In fact, it beggars belief as to why any 'supporter' would seek to do so at the moment. My wife is pregnant with our first, and all I can think of is that I want the kid to share in my passion - the mighty fighting Melbourne Demons. I want this club, not only to survive, but to be strong. And a largely irresponsible, manipulative, unethical media is threatening that at the moment. That really gets under my skin - can't they see we're trying to turn things around. And trying hard. Okay - mistakes have been made, but the club is plainly trying to remedy that. This media frenzy is threatening our sponsorship base, our ability to attract players, the momentum that Neeld, Craig and others are trying so desperately to build. Why can't some people see that?! So when I see the likes of you constantly running down the joint, I get annoyed. Your angle is just so bloody short-sighted and dim-witted. And not nearly as clever as you think it is. If I were running this club, I would cancel your membership (to the extent that you have one). Immediately. Go support some other club and tweet like crazy about how clever Caroline Wilson and her cronies are, and how ordinary we are. But don't do that whilst also saying you 'support' this club. We need to change the culture of the joint, and IMO we don't have room for 'supporters' like you. In my head at least, you're de-listed.

The image of Caro "nut deep" is both disturbing and puzzling on so many levels. Thanks for the afternoon laugh!

Hello fellow passionate Demons supporters! I put this to you...?? If the AFL does decide to penalize the entire Melbourne Football Club rather than individuals then we need to protest against this! We as Demons supporters have suffered enough! If the AFL does wish to punish the entire club for allegedly "tanking" then I suggest a number of options. The first would be a public demonstration with as many Demons supporters as possible at the AFL headquarters. The second would be, as supporters, mounting a class action against the AFL and taking them to court. Just like the Bulldogs supporters did against the VFL/AFL in the late 1980's. Anyways, these are merely suggestions of what we "could" possibly do if the AFL decides to punish the entire Melbourne Football Club. We shall not let the AFL (or the Media) destroy the Melbourne Football Club because of the flawed priority pick system that the AFL created in the first place! Punish the individuals and not our club!

God I hate all this crap.....all we seem to do is wait for bad news,first waiting to see if Scully was leaving, then waiting out the whole Jurrah saga, then whether Suns would nominate Viney,now this,which is the worst wait of all ...will we be penalised or not? If so ,what will they do take away pick 4? Take away points? So over it. It hurts because I'm such a tragic Demons man...... it feels personal. No matter what happens....First and Forever!

The Stynes/McLardy board has had some unfortunate lapses of judgement. Clearly there is also some very noisy opposition toward it. Criticism is fine but not much of it has been constructive. At best it has been negative disingenuous spin & at worst it has been a disloyal white-anting campaign of political bastardry aimed at eliminating one so called "boys club" for the jollies of another. Ultimately loyal supporters & members of the club will be the real losers out of this. Really if you feel you have something positive to contribute to the club you could offer your insight to the current board. If you feel said advice is being ignored or they are/have treated you badly; form a viable alternative ticket or back one (apparently the local Girl Guides chapter has outstanding corporate governance). But let's also not whitewash history & have a look at some of the factors which lead to the ascension of the perceived boys club. In 2007 the then Gardner board involved Jim Stynes (in the initial stages) & Garry Lyon in the selection process to appoint a new coach. Chris Connolly was also interviewed for the position (funny how they're "revered club legends" when they're useful but a bunch of out of line "liniment sniffers" when they have the cheek to usurp others into a position of power). After failing to land the head coaching gig Chris Connolly is parachuted into the position of Football Operations Manager (presumably as a consolation prize) - ignoring a separate panel's recommendation that former Hawthorn coach Peter Schwab assume the position. On rolls 2008 & the Gardner board appoints Paul McNamee as CEO to replace Steve Harris. This strategic direction leads to alarm bells ringing at the AFL & sets in place a chain of events that leads to the ascension of the Stynes board, the sacking of McNamee & the AFL's backed hiring of Cameron Schwab as CEO. So if the Stynes/McLardy board is the route of all of the club's evils what does that say about some of previous board's actions & decisions in 07/08 which lead to the AFL backed putsch? Most of this criticism of the current board is overly negative bordering on destructive. Is clearly personal & AGENDA driven. It's all dirty political point scoring. Describing a man whose board presided over the eradication of $5m worth of debt, increased sponsorship & revenue streams as well as vastly improved strategic relationships with the MCC & AFL as merely "a dying cult hero & his mates" is clearly political mudslinging. As is the baseless accusation that he knowingly accepted illegal payments as a player as is the other agenda driven bile, bias & [censored] slung on this thread.

That is an interesting spin to put on it. Let's examine the facts, we were in no trouble until Bailey said something at his exit. That was examined by the AFL and cleared. No incompetence at this point. Next Brock, the boy who wants to give aids to a fellow twitterer's mum, appears on the Sheahan show. Doesn't say we tanked, but the biggest AFL investigation is begun on his say so alone. Incompetent, not yet, as nothing proved. Eddie comes out and says we did what everyone else did. Is he or Collingwood incompetent? Libba says Blues tanked. Fev agrees in his book and reiterates it today and even says the players didn't try anymore. He then challenges the AFL, by saying they haven't even spoken to him about it. Is Carlton incompetent? the AFL basically gives the practice the green light. Are they incompetent? They then fail to investigate other blatant and admitted instances. Are they more incompetent? Only one club has won a match that would have given them a priority pick and they did it in two different years. Guess who they were? Yes us, now that is really incompetent. How far back has that put us without Nic Nat and Cotchin who we would have had for losing the Kreuzer Cup. The whole bloody administration should resign for that. Oh that's right they have gone, but are still agitating after leaving the club $5million in debt. Let's discuss incompetence.

Caro is not just reporting the facts, she's deliberately misleading and manipulating her readers. Eg. her "We tried to stop tanking" Age article today says: "Former coach Bailey said via a text message on Wednesday he would make no comment on his role in the deliberate losses until the investigation was complete,.." Here Wilson's intentional ambiguity makes it falsely appear Bailey admitted to deliberately losing by texting something like, "I'm making no comment on my role in the deliberate losses until the investigation is complete," when in fact he probably just said "No comment." That is deliberately misleading journalism from a professional writer!! ...designed to manipulate the reader into thinking Bailey admitted in a text that there were deliberate losses. Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz2AuHpTgZe

It's funny. I started a thread not so long ago whether one's support for the club was conditional, or unconditional. Whether supporters had a tipping point, or not. Right now, in the face of uncertainty and possibly serious ramifications I've never felt more committed, or up for a fight. And this is irrespective of the clubs possible infractions, because I know in my heart they were right. Even if they were wrong. And great post Redleg.

If she was just "reporting" on the matter she would have known the "Vault" was the name of the building, not the meetings. She would provide actual quotes not just heresay and she wouldn't put in throw away line about Brad Green being "disillusioned" without any evidence to support it. If Melbourne are guilty then the club deserves its right whack, but she has in no way reported accurately or fairly on the matter.

Geez what is your problem. You sound like you are actually enjoying this. No matter how much you dislike CS, CC and DMc how could you want your Club to be put through the wringer like this. Dont hide behind your usual getting rid of these three and the rest of the Board will make the Club stronger. That is just crap. What we are witnessing could be at the worst the end of the Club. Ah then you could really be smug. But then where would you be able to vent your spleen because there would be reason for Demonland. You would then be a nobody with no one to listen to your constant moaning.

Caro hasn't added one piece of information to back her illegal defamatory assertions. If you trawl through her article looking for a diamond in her septic tank she calls an article, you will be smeared with sh¥~ and underwhelmed. The beguiling Headlines she slaps on her filth are going to be the poison that kill her career. So keep it up Caro, I'm loving it. I will resurface today her 'Oracle Like' statement on Footy Classified that "Carlton will not win another game this year." Let's get the blow torch back on her and make sure her profound smugness comes back and bites hard!

Im amazed the Herald Sun have taken a lot of pressure off us in todays edition. Never saw this coming. Kreuzer Cup article, putting Carlton back under the pump http://www.courierma...f-1226507852834 Brendan Fevola throwing Carlton under the bus, god bless him http://www.courierma...f-1226507842026 "Dees never tanked" - article,on Jim Stynes, lots of quotes by the great man http://www.courierma...o-1226507845894 Demetriou says they would investigate other clubs, not just MFC http://www.courierma...6-1226507812966

If Melbourne go down for this there may be no Melbourne to rebuild, only a fool would believe this will make us stronger. We will lose sponsors and have great difficulty attracting new ones, no one will want to be involved with the club, as is is we are hanging in by a thread. This is a media frenzy and it looks uglier by the hour, made only worse by the dick wits that have it in for Schwab and Connolly, some of whom are former board members and officials that nearly sent the club down the gurgles in the first place. There are agendas and paybacks galore here and don't think that the majority on here are fooled by the [censored] they spin about it being for the good of the club, it's all about them, their ambitions and getting back at Schwab/Connolly. The more frenzied the attacks by the media the harder the AFL will hit us, they have to make it look like they are in control and Dimwit has to save face, he will ensure we play most of our home games in Darwin if its possible. I am not a huge fan of Schwab he's a bit slick for me but I'll stand by him as long as he's the choice of the elected board and until that changes neither will I, now is not the time for payback, you do that in the privacy of the board room If you get elected.

Not to mention the fact that we can expect the spelling and grammar in the reports to be atrocious as a result.

If any of you have AFL memberships, cancel them immediately and sign up as MFC members. I did this 4 years ago (after having a Gold AFL Membership) and haven't looked back. Much rather give the club $500+ a year for a Tridents membership than give the money to the AFL who will use it to spend on rugby players and new franchises in backwater markets.

Roost if you could only meet Don McLardy. We have a President who absolutely loves this Club and always has. He has given up so much to take on first the Vice President position and now as President. You should not understimate what Don does for the Club. He is a man of high morals and a true friend in every sense of the word. We have a President whose only agenda is to hold the Club together and work for our future. He may not be as charismatic as Eddie or as outspoken as Kennett but he does know how business is run and AFL is a business. We need to stand firm behind Don. He is not the reason the [censored] has hit the fan

Rd 23 2012... Buggered if I can see it.

And we're away . . . .

Norm Smith.

They'd be freeing up salary space for Kurt then...

Why doesn't Mike Fitzpatrick come out of the shadows from behind AFL scenes & shed some light on the Visy 3rd party dealings at Car'ton? and the Judd recruitment? and the Kreuzer Cup 2007? Speak up Mike F, & dim'itriou. Your silence re Car'ton is deafening the whole media.

AMC I unfortunately am looking at the situation with eyes wide open. You on the other hand are so intent on achieving your goal/agenda that you cannot see the wider picture here. I also do not "vituperate" mindlessly because I curse only you!

Journalists don't usually reveal their sources but if there was a defamation action taken against the Age and Wilson I suggest the process of discovery might flush out the identity of her informants. The subplot to this saga could be revealed and might embarrass a few people whose obsessive hatred of Schwab, Stynes and Lyon caused them to go overboard and do damage to the club. It might also uncover the fact that some of the information supplied to journos has been embellished and twisted to suit their agenda. Some interesting revelations will soon be forthcoming about these people.

I plan to stand around waving my fists and frothing at the mouth and saying F$%^^ing AFL at the pub for the next 30 years.

YOU GUYS MAKE ME FEEL SICK.YOUR AGENDA IS CLEAR TO ALL DEMONS FANS

When we 'tanked' in 2009 I would bet that the vast majority of us were in favour of the club doing just that. In fact we demanded that this happen. If 'they' hadn't tanked we'd have been baying for blood. Losing the opportunity to get two 'guns', etc etc.To come out now and say that 'they' should be punished as individuals is nothing short of hypocrisy.

Comparing the decision of going for Jon Brown to Mitch Clark is laughable. McNamee wanted a 27 year old Brown in year one of our rebuild when our list was in an absolutely dire state. Even if we drafted well it would have taken 3-4 years to come good and by then Brown is a battered 30 year old. Neeld got a 24 year old Clark when the list already has some developing young talent on it. Clark is young enough to still be a key cog if the team can develop over the next few years. Not to mention Brown was a marquee player who had rejected Collingwood and was never going to leave his beloved Lions. Clark on the other hand wanted out. So yes, if Demonland consensus was that McNamee's move for Brown was silly, and that Neeld getting Clark was genius, then I would suggest that that's pretty close to the mark.

Todd Viney... oh wait.

Noticed Watts smiling in that footage. Not impressed. I want to see nothing but glum faces during training.

I do and I am. That is why I (and so many others) was so happy to see Gardiner get the boot And that is why I will do everything i can to see he and/or his quisling cohorts don't get re-elected That clear enough Hazy?

So long Izzy. I'll always remember your 13 games, 39 kicks, 18 tackles and 2 goals.

BTW ask him how they got Buddy and Roughy in the same draft, with 1 being a Priority Pick. Do you know what they did? Wanna guess?

To me the whole issue requires no more discussion than this: The whole point of the draft system, including priority picks, was/is to give a boost to the clubs that are struggling the most. We won 10 games in 3 years and we received ONE priotiry pick. West Coast, Carlton, Richmond, St.Kilda, Collingwood, Bulldogs and Hawthorn have ALL spent time at the bottom over the last decade or so and as a result they all received 'draft assistance'. Between 2004 and 2007, 7 priority picks were given out, Carlton and Hawthorn receiving TWO each. How could anyone possibly pick Melbourne, out of this group of 8 clubs (most of whom have been far more successful than the MFC in recent years) as the 'odd-ones-out' and try to mount a case that they have received some sort of unfair advantage?

Kennett would know all about it....losing the unlosable election.

Thanks Swooper. I'm glad Jack has recovered from something he didn't have.

That is not an offence under the Rule. You can conspire all you like, it is the act of tanking that constitutes the offence. Here is an interesting question for the viewers Can you tank a game that you can't win? In other words does it have to be proved that you could have won and that you deliberately didn't, for the charge to be found proved. If for example you played Hawthorn and they were red hot and at full strength and we had a few bad injuries and no form and knew we had no chance. Is developing players or experimenting and not doing your best tanking when you know you have no hope? If the answer is yes, every club has tanked.

Shows even genius reporters like Caro don't know the AFL rules. She said we could even lose Viney if we lost picks 4 and 27. The rules say a father/son selection will be taken with the next non compo pick that the club has, after another club has nominated him. In this case Port nominated him with pick 7 and our next live pick must be used. Unless we lose every pick in this draft he would still get to us. Learn the bloody rules before you print further misinformation Caro. While you are at it, look up "the presumption of innocence" or in words you can understand, "innocent until proven guilty". You have clearly never heard of it before.

And Brock is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not a renowned DL poster, but I felt compelled to share my thoughts. Like most, the weight of media hyperbole, anecdotes and mudslinging is having an effect on me. However, rationally, I think tanking is impossible to prove, is against the AFLs interests, and if 'proven', will have further ramifications (other teams, betting, ADs job, legal action). My main concern is that the AFL's actions are often governed by public opinion and PR, as opposed to the facts. If we go down, we go down fighting and will bring others down with us. I have known the vice president, Guy Jalland, on a personal level. Guy is an incredibly shrewd operator with a brilliant legal mind and many connections. Guy is passionate about the Demons. If this issue results in a legal showdown, I am confident that we will be expertly led.

The AFL cannot properly confine its tanking investigation to the last in a long line of clubs which recognized that the AFL rules rewarded teams who lost games I was one of thousands of Melbourne supporters goaded by Carlton supporters for losing the Kreuzer Cup. Make no mistake the football public ridiculed poor old Melbourne because it was outmanoevred by Carlton - even though the scoreboard had Melbourne in front when the siren sounded, Carlton supporters were the ones who went home happy. An Assistant Carlton Coach Tony Liberatore came out and said that Carlton had tanked. The AFL turned a blind eye - just as it had done when Collingwood rested half its list a few years before - and when Hawthorn experimented with a losing handball-handball-handball game plan a couple of years after that. Melbourne decided it wasn't going to be dudded again - it was going to follow the path of the power clubs. The AFL had developed a system that encouraged teams to bottom out - now it was going to be Melbourne's turn. Melbourne followed the leaders. Now on the back of an outburst by a disgruntled former player reinforced by a sacked coach and a discredited recruiter the AFL has decided to dig back into the past. ............. selectively................ not to the heart of the issue let alone to those who first seized on it - but just far enough to catch out the last club in the line. It would be unconscionable for the AFL Commission (under the Chairmanship of a former Carlton Captain) to strike at the heart of one club having stood by while others ( demonstrably Carlton) who wrote the book - stand back and laugh. Melbourne supporters would not have cheered home Jordan McMahon's kick if the AFL hadn't effectively sanctioned Carlton's victory in the Kreuzer cup two years before It is the integrity of the AFL that is really on the line here

Surely if our old waste of space sets off a firestorm of investigation and hand-wringing then so does Carlton's equally obnoxious (or, just noxious) waste of space? EXPAND THE INVESTIGATION!!!

If he's true to his word, I'm ready to help out by providing him with the details of a discussion I had with a then Carlton board member in 2007 about three weeks before the Kreuzer Cup game. I have to add however, that although what was revealed to me indicated very clearly that Carlton was doing everything which Melbourne has been accused of in the current witch hunt against the club, it was not suggested that the Blues were sending their players out to lose either. Nevertheless, for the sake of consistency and the integrity of the competition, I welcome an AFL investigation into whether, at various times in the past 15 years, the following clubs have tanked for draft position advantage - Carlton (on multiple occasions), Fremantle, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Richmond, West Coast and the Giants this year.

To put all the arguments in our favour into one post: 1. What IS tanking? You're allowed to experiment with players in different positions (Garland was at FF and Bate in the midfield this year, and we weren't accused of tanking!). You're allowed to send players off for surgery in the middle of the season to best prepare them for the pre-season. You're allowed to play young players to try and get games into them. You're allowed to drop senior players. There's no minimum number of rotations per game. Everything we did was within the rules. 2. The players were never told to lose. Sure, they may have felt like they were being set up to lose, and that the board wanted them to, but they tried to win. Even Wilson said so. 3. From the time of the alleged tanking, Bailey is gone. The assistant coaches are gone. Stynes is gone. The majority of players are gone. Why should the current players, coach and President be punished for things that they didn't do? 4. The AFL were the ones that dangled the priority pick in front of us. Of course a club is going to be tempted to get the priority pick if they are near the bottom. What incentive do they have to win? The AFL allowed this to happen. 5. Many of the witnesses are no longer working for the MFC. How can their testimony be taken as gospel, when many of them left unwillingly? They may have vendettas against the MFC because of the way that they were dismissed. I just don't see how we can be sanctioned for this. The MFC will win if it goes to court. To all of those who say that we won't take the AFL to court if they sanction us, I ask, why not? We have a case. We can't go down without a fight.

We should let Caro run out her own rope as far as she wants. Let her make as many unfounded allegations, misquote's, bold assumptions stated as facts and back it up with hysteria and bluff. Then hang her with her own bloody noose that's called defamation. We could own The Age, which isn't worth much these days, but would still allow us to stop drivel being pressed into print and slowly but surely raise the standards of journalism again. She is a terrible excuse for a journalist and will be held to account! Interestingly, after round 12 of 2007 "Caro" made an incredible statement on Footy Classified. It was simple and well informed, "Carlton will not win another game this season." With 10 weeks still to play in the year, Caro stated with as much certainty as the sun would rise in the morning that Carlton won't win. What the AFL should do is interview Caro to get her statement, then follow up with Brett Ratten and then Melbourne coah and former Carlton assistant Mark Riley to gather facts and roll-over on their now former employer. Afterwards, charge Caro for perjury for stating false fact and ban her from any AFL game for life. Keep in mind that after the 2007 season, Tony Libratore came out against his former employer Carlton and stated his case for an investigation. Reinterview HIM! Mark Riley was rewarded for his win over Carlton in the Kreuzer cup with an Assured Assistant Coaches role with Carlton. Get to the bottom of THAT! Interview former players, because it was a game where the players were clearly complicit. It's time to even the score Ladies and Gentleman. Gloves are off and that's right... "The truth hurts!"

This is the perfect example of what happens when you treat individuals within an organization with so much contempt. Every other club has just about tanked in its time. None have been caught out or investigated. So what's the difference between us and other clubs? Well we are dumb enough to involve every man and his dog in confidential decisions, and we the go and treat these people like crap, giving them enough of an incentive to stab us in the back. I have neither positive nor negative feelings about our board. They have done some good, and they have done some bad. But the absolute unprofessionalism that we continue to show is just staggering. We are a multi million dollar business being run like a [censored] amateurs kindergarten. He said, she said, he was unhappy, hey everyone let's talk about tanking with the entire footy department, and their cousins. Let's [censored] people off, and watch them return fire. And then let's keep the same stinky fish at the table. Seriously, we may not always invite these epic disasters that seem to follow us, but we sure as hell do nothing to make them better either.

Coercing witnesses, releasing their statements to the media, selective investigations,ignoring tanking admissions from Libba and Fev, allowing GWS to induce Scully to leave the MFC while a contracted player, rigged fixturing, 3rd party payments for some clubs but not others, extra salary cap room for some clubs, larger lists for some clubs, better draft allowances for some clubs, oppression of some clubs by denying sponsorship options and denial of friday night viewing, etc, etc, etc. Yes the AFL's integrity is in question.

Such a successful revolt that they blew the lead! I don't think any group of players who were 1-12 before getting the chance to knock over a couple of rubbish interstate sides at the MCG have any right to be complaining about anybody trying to stop them winning when they were doing a great job of it themselves.

Lucky I don't.