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Hi All. For those that remember a few weeks ago I wrote some info on Wines. As of a couple of weeks ago I was told that Ollie Wines was personally told by the club that if he were available the club would definetley pick Ollie up with selection #4. If he is not available and GWS take all mids then MFC will take O'Rourke and definetley not Brodie Grundy. Which would make sense considering the talls we have drafted and our need for mids. Not that I like revealing sources as its none of anyones business IMO but the source behind this one is: Ollie Wines & his father. I have spoken to Ollie and asked him a few questions. He said he would be happy and grateful for an opportunity at any club but is desperate to get to the Melbourne Footy Club and is very excited at the prospect of landing here, just loves the Dees. Nice kid, competitive & is a big boy for a midfielder. Lets hope he gets his wish. As I stated in another thread Ive also heard Dees are into Mitch Banner & Ben Warren - how true this is, I'm not quite sure. Cheers, Hells Gates.

I don't know why you have bothered then. Your bitterness toward an anonymous mod is understandable, however if it's shaping life decisions then maybe you need more introspection... I am a Demon and couldn't imagine not being one. Culture is not easy to change but it's easy to quit. We are striving as you are leaving. I hope the Tigers enjoy your faux support.

Can't wait to see if Gysberts, Morton and Cook have put on some muscle in their time off.

The simple answer is f... them. We either start winning games and credibility, or remain fodder for the stupid comments of fools and headline seekers.

just to update my son was born today weighing 9.5 pounds and the 1st thing i put on him was an infant MFC scarf, and i have already bought him a jumper i am gonna go down swinging with this kid he WILL BE A MFC SUPPORTER

Hi All. Heard on the grape vine today (from an unusual source, so may not be true) that the Club is into getting Mitch Banner & Ben Warren in the upcoming delisted free agent period. I will keep my thoughts to myself on this. Im also going down to the NT Thunder training this week to get together a bit of a BIO about Dom Barry for you guys on this forum. Speak to you then. Cheers, Hells Gates.

I drove past the MCG today and both thumbs on the Norm Smith statue were up.

disagree that this is fair. it is a joke. having only a handful of "bigger" teams play multiple times on friday nghts only increases their fan bases and thus their revenue - which in turn increases their football departments which improves their football and then they get to play more friday night games, which increases their fan bases and thus their revenue (etc). if youre going to have a salary cap and a draft to make the competition even, the afl should not be allowed to turn around and say, youre a big club you get 9 games on friday night, youre a small club you get none.

People keep talking about tough, hard, clearance types and fast, skillful, skinny types as if there is no middle ground. I want an inside/outside mid who is strong through the core, reads the ball well in clearance situations, has breakaway pace and the kicking skills to deliver. Is that too much to ask? The closest player to that description available at pick 4 appears to me to be O'Rourke and that's why he got my vote. Like many I'd love Toumpas but doubt his availability. I really respect the way Wines goes about it but fear that many over-rate him.

Guys we have not even been competitive for 18 months. Our list was poor as the results of 2012 show. I cannot find one delisted / traded Player that I object to losing. Massive change to the list has been made. More I must admit than I expected. But the players that have been flung were not AFL standard. Drastic situations need drastic remedys. Who knows if we will be better or not in 2013 But I for one have the feeling the players who take the field in 2013 will want to be there. That must be an improvment

Hi All. Heard on the grape vine today (from an unusual source, so may not be true) that the Club is into getting Mitch Banner & Ben Warren in the upcoming delisted free agent period. I will keep my thoughts to myself on this. Im also going down to the NT Thunder training this week to get together a bit of a BIO about Dom Barry for you guys on this forum. Speak to you then. Cheers, Hells Gates.

As Real Demon says, it's too early to tell. Over the last few years I've often seen us given a very good rating by media "experts" and we know how most of those years have subsequently gone. On exposed form and with some knowledge of who has come in I'm over the moon. If all we'd done this trade period was get Hogan and Viney while being able to retain a pick inside the top 5 I would have been delighted. Just doing those things would have been a massive win for me. I genuinely believe that Hogan and Viney are going to be "stars". Some will say, but we've thought that before, so there are no guarantees. In fact you'd be forgiven for saying it's unlikely. But when I analyse those early picks that fail to live up to expectations in the world of the AFL there's a common theme. They tend to be either young talls that have a weakness - usually either pace, size, or the required appetite for brutal contests, or they're mids that are too outside. For example, early picks that have been underwhelming such as Morton, Fiora, Tambling, Oakley-Nichols and even Gibbs, fall into that category. I'm not as rapt in Dustin Martin as some, but his aggression and strength serve him well in the AFL. Viney and Hogan's skill sets will also serve them very well at AFL level. Dawes and Pedersen will really help our forward structure. I believe that Pedersen will prove to be an even better player than Dawes, but they'll be equally important in their roles. I'm less excited by Byrnes and Rodan, but Byrnes immediately becomes a best 22 player because he's the best small forward on the list. And the last time we traded for a NT zone selection we landed a young Jeff Farmer. We'll have to wait a while to see what we've got with Barry. Best 22 additions for 2013 - Viney, Dawes, Pedersen, Byrnes and pick 4. The last addition will be contentious for some, but if it happens to be Wines he'll play far more footy at Melbourne than Casey. That's 5 additions, which is almost a quarter of your best 22. How many other clubs will have improved their best 22 by 20% in the off season ? That's enormous. Carlton improved theirs by 0%. Rivers is the only best 22 to walk out and he plays in the one area of the ground in which we're pretty well off. As for the departures: Martin - handy back-up ruck, but not a great tap ruckman and a worse forward. He's an athletic gumby with average to poor endurance. There's every likelihood that there will be two subs and less rotations from 2014 and this will hurt Martin as a footballer. Jimmy Stynes would have been a star in this era due to his elite endurance running, but a player like Martin will be exposed. Morton - I'd given up on him a while ago, despite his talent, and clearly he would have been delisted if he wasn't contracted. Gysberts for Pedersen is a win for me. Pedersen will play 22 games next year and Gysberts wasn't close to best 22. Pedersen will have an important role in our forward structure and the other player is some way off being a quality mid. Moloney - ball-ups went from 11 seconds in 2011 to 4 seconds in 2012. This didn't help Moloney set up at the stoppages. With the new rule meaning that the ball is going to be thrown up around the ground it's only going to get quicker. He's probably a decent fit for Brisbane, but being so one dimensional wasn't great at a club with a poor midfield group. Rivers - a loss, but we were [censored] with him in the one area of the ground where we should be OK. My care factor is either side of zero. Green - slow and was done and dusted. Let's look at "What we just did": Two years ago we had the youngest list outside of the Suns. Before this draft period we had the most number of first round draft picks along with GWS. It's little wonder we recruited some seasoned bodies on the back of losing Green, Rivers and Moloney. Neeld wants structure. This year at various times once Clark went down we had Rivers and Garland as forwards. With Dawes and Pedersen we now have a solid forward structure that makes Clark and Howe even more dangerous. As stated, Byrnes will immediately be better than any other small forward we have. Melbourne are still very young and will be a hell of a lot better next year. Our 25 and unders will include Clark, Dawes, Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Frawley, Tom McDonald, Blease, Watts, Howe, Tapscott, Garland, McKenzie as well as Viney. That's 14, plus there's Strauss, Taggert, Tynan, Gawn, and pick 4 in this year's draft. It works for me.

If you stop supporting this club I will buy an extra membership every year in your stead. You are a nasty and bitter troll, and I don't like the way you post on Demonland!

You do not have to earn ONE out of 23 rounds where two teams play each week. If we dont deserve it neither do port, GWS or GC. Meaning that 14 teams share 23 Friday night games. 23 rounds gives re opportunity for 46 spots to fill. 14 teams implies rach team gets at least three if shared. What a joke. We deserve at least one! It's not about being good enough, it's about being part of the AFL. It's about showing the fans of each club they are part of the big picture. If the broadcasters are worried about blowouts on Friday, make sure the match ups are suitable. Simple.

Was the club supposed to come out and say "We're keeping Morton, Gysberts and Martin because no other club is prepared to offer anything but rubbish picks. They are not part of the plan, none are combatants in the true sense of the word. Some may think these and the delistings were hard decisions for the club. They weren't, Neeld and Craig are operating on a simple formula. Hard. tough, big and strong and preferably from a culture of excellence. Personally I think WC got shafted on pick 88. I just hope we use pick 4 well and keep clearing out the chaff in years to come.

Ah yes, the old 'they can't get a game at their club, which leads to the conclusion that they are duds and we shouldn't take them'. You must be right. I mean, look at Sydney. They took Josh Kennedy (couldn't get a game at Hawthorn), Ben McGlynn (couldn't get a game at Hawthorn), Mitch Morton (couldn't get a game at Richmond), Ted Richards (couldn't get a game at Essendon). That turned out so badly for them. You must be right.

Welcome to Demonland enjoy the ride.

The key to what we've done is to provide experienced support and leadership to the cluster of talented kids coming through the club so they develop to their full potential. If we can get an across the board improvement of 10 - 15% this year from Clark (a full year uninjured), Dawes (back to his 2010 form), Jones (continued improvement), Grimes (2nd year captain and his first full season), Trengove (2nd year captain and should get is body right in 2013), Frawley (back to 2010 form, settled backline), Tom McDonald (another preseason of work to build his strength more) Blease ( realised in 2012 that hard work = success, is a convert), Watts (maturing well and able now to build on his frame and compete with men all over the ground), Howe (knows he could be a star if he works), Tapscott (had to trim down in 2012 and develope more strings to his bow, should be capable and confident all over the ground) Garland (played out of position in LATE 2012 has capacity now to play front or back) McKenzie (with Dawes and Clark to target should add more offensive disposals to his defensive style game), Viney (bang, knows whats required, hungry as, like to see him play forward pocket when not in middle), Strauss ( confidence player for whom injuries have stymied his momentum, if uninjured has line breaking capacity), Taggert, Tynan, Gawn, and pick 4, (Should all be pushing hard to play AFL games and if they are they'll have improved by more than 15%) If these 19 young men improve we'll be well on the way to climbing the ladder. Good trading period and it would seem we have the players and processes in place now to improve.

That isn't a very sound strategy.

Mate I feel your pain but do you really want to throw away a lifetime if support over a petty squabble on an interent forum? You're in a no-win situation - if Richmond becomes successful it will feel hollow and if Melbourne becomes successful you will regret jumping off.

As I've said before it's baby steps first, we will only attract top line players when we start to win, either that or develop our own like Viney, Hogan, Wines, Barry as the new kids and Howe, Tommy Mc, Tappy, Taggert etc as the ones already at the club. Once we start to win games and look like a credible side we will start to look like a viable destination.

Max Gawn's chunder may well have contributed to us getting Picks 4 & 13. Thanks Maxy.

Why would anyone even worry about GWS? We have shown in the past 5 years, it doesn't matter how many top 5 Draft picks you have, if you haven't the senior players to show them the way, then they will always stay as "players with potential"

No worries Dayz, we all have our tipping points, although yours seem mindbogglingly shallow on the surface. Btw, 12 months ban ? Wowee. But do me a favour, change your name to Tiger Dayz and hang around. It will be fun slagging off a Richmond supporter in 2013.

Our culture has been the problem. It's been flabby and unprofessional. Our DNA has sucked too - and it's probably because we've been a bit inbred in our senior player ranks over a long period of time, none of whom had ever tasted any success and therefore didn't know what the key ingredients to success looked like. For instance, Leo Barry said to my mate a few weeks ago that the culture of the club's obviously been pretty ordinary because we can't attract good players and we always have to pay 'overs' to retain our established players - the latter of which sings out 'poor culture'. Well, I think things are now changing under Neeld, and quite dramatically. To all of those who suggest we paid 'overs' for Dawes, the reality is that a few clubs wanted him and he selected us. This would not have occurred previously (eg, Luke Ball wouldn't even talk to us). I also suspect we weren't the only club into Pedersen. He wanted to come to us. Farren Ray apparently wanted to come to us too - we just couldn't get the deal over the line. Mitch Clark was a lock in for Freo - he then elected to come to us, and he's stated a number of times since that he loves the club and wants to spend the rest of his playing years with us. There are still instances of players not wanting to come to us (eg, Caddy and Wellingham), but it seems a lot better now than anytime previously. In short, things are changing. It's because of the new blood - Neeld, Misson, Craig, Rawlings, Leigh Brown etc. Further to Leo Barry's comment above, I have to say I've never really observed any of our former 'leaders' (Junior and Neita aside) willingly extend their MFC contracts. It always seems to be an issue. But I'd be stunned to see that from any of the new brigade - they all seem to want to commit to the club, and they commit early. And I reckon the new mature age recruits who've been introduced this year have a similar headspace. Our culture is improving. And this trade period will serve only to accelerate that improvement. We're getting rid of the bad DNA and injecting some better stuff into the mix. My only disappointment during the trade period is that we didn't manage to land Ray - I want players who want to play for this club.

The [censored]-ups are over, mate.

Yep, it's heading to a club that's intent on building a good culture.

The following forum user will not be offered a playing contract in 2013: Dees Dayz. Everyone at Demonland wishes him all the best for their future endeavours. Jokes aside. Tis a shame. Your ego obviously has been dented. Seeing as though you've been around since 1953/52, and with 30 years more experience and wisdom in life than I have, there probably isn't much I can say that you don't already know. Some Inspirational Quotes for you: It's not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get back up - Vince Lombardi. Here's a harden the F*$% up quote I often tell myself. HARDEN THE F%$^ UP! - Demon-4-Life However, should you feel the need to alter the club you have supported for your entire life, that have offered you pleasure, pain, frustration, happiness, joy, due to an anonymous person, who you have never met, who you will never meet, who you don't know denting your ego...so be it. PS: Did I mention: HARDEN THE F%$^ UP?

I kinda like the idea. Seems to be an innovative approach to tough training conditions. I have no idea how it compares to the high altitude training that seems to be the flavour of the month. But, training in Darwin in December sure aint gonna be for the faint-hearted. Has the added benefit of having a real footy oval to train on, as well as the opportunity to grow the AFL presence in the top end -- none of which is achieved by flitting off overseas. So, I applaud the club for trying something a little different. I really hope it has the desired effect.

Great leaders have always surrounded themselves with alike thinkers. It is very obvious that Mark has chosen this pathway that is open to a little risk, but with the potential for a huge upside. We are not the coach at Melbourne, just desperate supporters who crave some success before they put the dirt on top. I for one know without equivocation, that we have for the past few years had our hopes constantly being destroyed by incredibly poor and uncompetitive performances. Enough! I hate the fact that our Club has been the brunt of footy jokes. Enough! Some of us will be sad to lose players who we may had high hopes for or who have given us snippets of potential. Surely we all knew that if Melbourne was to change to a club that is respected and feared on and off the field, massive changes had to occur. I am sad to lose some familiar faces, but I am excited by seeing a Leader who is showing some amazing boldness, a lack of fear, focussed and a preparedness to set the 'bar' so much higher. The incoming players all have displayed levels of courage, desperation and considerable skills. There appears to be a balance of experience and emerging talent. There is still more to come. Great leaders set a standard that is high and have demanding expectations of performance and attitude. As a passionate supporter I applaud Mark Neeld for giving us a chance to finally dream of success. The rocket is being fuelled.............our critics are already in disarray.

Confession: I'm a real sucker for phantom drafts (I miss Burgo's these days but he's working in a better place these days anyway ) and you've done well TD. However, you might have gone a bit early because I think the potential sanctions against Adelaide over draft tampering/salary cap breaches are going to cut deep into their available draft picks over the next year or so and who knows what will happen with Tippett? Reading your profiles almost makes me wish that we could have kept another early pick but then I remember we got Hogan and we have Jack Viney at 27 (possibly 26 in the near future). You can't be too greedy. I was a big fan of Jimmy Toumpas from way back so I still hold out some hopes there especially given that GWS has an abundance of midfield talent and might (even at 3) be inclined to go for a different type ahead of our first pick at 4. Still, Wines or O'Rourke look like fitting the bill anyway so we can't lose with that pick and JVs a lock at 27. From what I've seen (very little) and read of Paul Marschall, he looks a good fit for us but I've also read that there are some doubts about whether he's going to nominate for the draft. I also think we'll be active trying to snare one of two delisted FAs and would like to get Ben Jacobs as another potential midfielder through the PSD and that obviously depends if we're able to work out a satisfactory arrangement to get him across the line. After all, he did initially nominate North as his preferred club (although this shouldn't stop us from trying). I think Michael Evans is also in line for a rookie elevation. Finally, I met Clint Bartram last week at the Forum game and he was happy with his rehab so far and looking to start his pre season in the near future. He's in the leadership group and, as long as all goes well in the coming weeks, I doubt a downgrade to the rookie list is likely.

So the moral of this story is Demon supporters need to root more.

ROUND 3 46.West Coast Player: Brant Colledge Height: 192cm Weight: 87kg Club: Perth Description: Due to injuries Colledge has gone under the radar so far, but he is one of the KPFs that I would seriously be considering. In the final match of the Championships, I thought he was the most impressive of the WA talls. Colledge is a strong mark above his head, and while he wont ever be a 50+ a season goalkicker, he is good at bringing other players into the game. While he can play in the backline, I like him as a CHF leading up the ground. He plays a very high marking and disposal game in the WAFL Colts, and I think he could translate that across to the AFL. 47.Sydney Player: Emmanuel Irra Height: 179cm Weight: 80kg Club:South Adelaide Description: Irra is a Ugandan refugee who played as an outside mid for South Adelaide. Is a kid who has already made his league debut and for a kid who hasn't been playing all his life is a beautiful kick off both sides of his body. Once he gets the ball he has elite speed and is very difficult to catch. At times though he can really struggle to get involved in the game and therefore needs to improve his work rate if he wants to make it at the next level. 48. North Melbourne Player: Tim O'Brien Height: 194cm Weight: 81kg Club: Glenelg Description: Not a huge guy for someone who plays in the ruck a bit at under 18 level but he has an amazing leap on him. I'm excited to see what he can do with his vertical leap. Played predominantly as a KPF for SA whilst giving the occasional chop out to Grundy in the ruck. Had quite a successful championships kicking 6.0 in the opening game against Tasmania. Still a pretty raw prospect but plenty to work with. 49.Melbourne Player:Mason Wood Height: 190cm Weight:78kg Club: Geelong Falcons Description: Tall, skilful midfielder from the Geelong Falcons. Can push forward from the wing and kick goals. Has a really nice left-foot on him but like a lot of left-footers is very one-sided and can get him into a bit of trouble at times. 50.Western Bulldogs Player: Lachlan Hunter Height: 181cm Weight: 78kg Club: Western Jets Description: Lachlan Hunter, son of former 130-game Bulldog defender Mark was nominated by the Club before the father son deadline. Hunter is a left-footed midfielder/forward that represented Vic Metro at the AFL Under-18 national championships, and earned 2012 TAC Cup Team of the Year honours for his recent season with the Western Jets. 51.Western Bulldogs Player: Nathan Hrovat Height: 174cm Weight: 78kg Club: Northern Knights Description: Hrovat was probably the most productive player of the Champs. He just continually racked up big numbers. He is a very small midfielder who has a huge work rate. Very solid size for a little bloke so is able to win a lot of his own ball. His skills are elite and he is very much a dual-sided player, which is a credit to his hard work and discipline. He shows some real leadership in the way he's always the first to get over to encourage his teammates. He will be a guy who you can put straight into the team from round 1 next year and he will have an impact. 52.Essendon Player: Adam Saad Height: 177cm Weight: 73kg Club: Calder Cannons Description: Small defender/forward with excellent disposal and penetration on his prefered left foot. Reads the play very well, is agile and a fantastic overhaed mark. Sets up counter attacks from half back regularly and is averaging 16 disposals this season at TAC Cup level. In 2011 played for the World team in NAB AFL Under 16 Championships and won the Most Valuable Player award. 53.Melbourne Player:Leigh Osborne Height: 186cm Weight:84kg Club: Frankston Dolphins Description: Rebounding medium defender who can also play through the midfield. Possesses a very good burst of speed and is an excellent kick on his preferred left foot. Played with the Eastern Ranges at TAC Cup level before a stint with local club East Ringwood. In 2012 he crossed to Frankston in the VFL and has become a shining light in defence averaging 17.4 disposals. Loves to run and carry the ball, can be a dangerous player when delivering inside forward 50. Accumulated a season best 28 disposals against Williamstown in Round 12. 54. Adelaide Player: Daniel Williamson Height: 179cm Weight:? Club: Norwood Description: I don't know a lot on Williamson. From what I hear he's not a game changer, but not unlike a Toby Greene or Clay Smith either. 55.Essendon Player: Matthew McDonough Height: 180cm Weight: 85kg Club: Woodville West Torrens Description: Nuggety small forward in the Porplyzia mould. Very strong kid for someone of his height and proved to be a very difficult match up at the champs kicking two bags of 6 goals and 3 in the final game. Not convinced his type will be the most highly sought after but I think he can continue to be a difficult match up at AFL level. Would like to see him play more midfield as everyone knows he is a more than capable forward and some versatility wouldn't go astray. 56.Carlton Player: Jacob Ballard Height: 186cm Weight: 82kg Club: Northern Knights Description: I have to say that Ballard is underrated. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him. He is 186cm and a strong body, he'd be pushing selection in his debut season. He can run all day, and uses the ball quite well too - plays off of half back and through the middle. He was super impressive for Vic Metro, and one thing he showed was that he doesn't need a lot of game time to win the ball. He looks to be a perfect fit for the modern game, and I think he could go earlier then this. 57. Gold Coast Player: Tom Temay Height: 179cm Weight: 74kg Club: Sandringham Dragons Description: Temay is a smallish midfielder who really impressed in some of his champs games. He managed to rack up plenty of the ball and uses it quite well. Had 30 touches vs Tassie and 24 vs Vic Country while doing the job on Whitfield from what I could gather. Not one I had paid a huge amount of attention to beforehand. 58. North Melbourne Player: Michael Close Height: 195cm Weight: 82kg Club: North Ballarat Description: Another tall, and yet another who has been hampered by injuries this year. Close started the season well, playing around CHF and as the backup ruckman. And he had a good match for Vic Country too against Queensland, but unfortunately injured his ankle and didn't play again during the Championships. Close still has some filling out to do, but he is a strong mark. Just needs to find some more consistency, and find a way to impact the scoreboard every game. 59. Geelong Player: James Stewart Height: 197cm Weight: 82kg Club: Sandringham Dragons Description: Stewart was a father son option for the Pies as a KPF however they passed him up. With the lack of real key forward options I could see a teams taking him 3rd round. He's not an overly physical key forward and still has a lot of development to go in his body so is a bit of a project. Is a very nice kick of the footy for a guy who is 197cm. Not sure he is really hard enough at the contest to make it as a big KPF and he may follow the path of a Ben Griffiths/Jack Watts and use his skills distributing from the back half. 60. Fremantle Player: Kamdyn McIntosh Height: 192cm Weight:78kg Club: Peel Thunder Description: Tall defender with a very good combination of pace and endurance. Versatile defender capable of playing on medium and talls. Played four matches for WA at the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships closing down dangerous opponents and providing good run from defence. Acquitted himself well in four matches at senior level for Peel, averaging 17.5 disposals, five marks and three tackles. 61.West Coast Player: Dean Kent Height: 180cm Weight: 81kg Club: Perth Description: A lot of people think he should have been part of the WA squad, and I tend to agree. Not the tallest player going around, but he is a powerful kid and strong at the ball. I would have had him ahead of a few of the players picked for WA. Kent has really stepped up at Colts level this year, consistently winning over 25 touches a game - plus kicking a goal a game. He is a very good clearance player, with a very good kick on him. Could probably handball and maybe tackle a tad more. 62.West Coast Player: Shannon Taylor Height: 177cm Weight: 72kg Club: Claremont Description: I still don't know quite where I stand with Taylor. Athletically, he is quite impressive - his speed alone would be reason to draft him. But I'm just not sold on him as a footballer, in particular as to whether he would be anything more than a small forward at AFL level. Doesn't really have the impact with his kicking that you'd be looking for from someone on the wrong side of 180cm. But as a late pick or in the rookie draft, there is enough to work with to suggest he'd be worth a shot. 63. North Melbourne Player: Jordan Bourke Height: 193cm Weight: 83kg Club: Morningside Description: Jordan is exceptionally strong overhead and a reliable shot for goal and reads the ball well in the air. The AIS-AFL Academy graduate is the son of former Geelong Cats ruckman Damien Bourke and was eligible for the Cats under the father/son rule but was not picked up. He averaged 12.4 disposals and 4.2 marks for Queensland in the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships showing his overall potential. 64. Adelaide Player: Brodie Murdoch Height: 187cm Weight: 85kg Club: Glenelg Description: Brodie is a bit different to his brother Jordan in that he is an undersized KPF. At AFL level he will need to develop into a 3rd/4th string forward. Similar to his brother he has a really nice left foot kick on him and doesn't waste too many chances at goal. 65. Greater Western Sydney Player: PASS Height: Weight: Description: 66.Sydney Player: Max Duffy Height: 188cm Weight: 75kg Club: East Fremantle Description: I think Duffy is perhaps the best player to have been overlooked last year, with talent definitely not the reason for not getting drafted. He is quick, smart and seriously skilled. And this year, he has become one of the most dangerous forwards in the WAFL - league, not Colts. Any team who needs to add life to their forward half should really be looking at Duffy. 67.Sydney Player: Jarrad Lienert Height: 191cm Weight: 80kg Club: Sturt Description: Another tall from SA, and quite a versatile one at that. Lienert started the season playing up forward for Sturt, where kicked 12 goals in 3 games. But then moved to the back lines. He missed the first game of the Championships through injury, but returned against the NT and performed well. Generally looks to take the game on coming out of the back lines, Lienert should be one to watch in the next few years. ROUND 4 68. Hawthorn Player: Andrew Boston Height: 180 cm Weight: 75kg Club: Broadbeach Description: Midfielder who excelled in the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships for QLD averaging 18 disposals at 70% and winning All Australian honours. Clean hands and neat disposal skills are features of his game. 69. Greater Western Sydney Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 70.Melbourne Player: Daniel Nicholson Height: 183cm Weight:78kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Impressed on his debut as a substitute against Carlton in round 10, 2011 and went on to play nine games. Nicholson is a running defender who is versatile and has good endurance. He was one of the Demons' most impressive trainers during the pre-season for 2012 and has now played 20 games. 71.Carlton Player: Levi Casboult Height: 198cm Weight: 99kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Tall forward who can take a strong mark and is excellent in one-on-one contests. Has made dramatic improvement to his kicking, but needs to work on his forward pressure. Played six games in 2012. 72. Hawthorn Player: Patrick Wilson Height: 185cm Weight: 74kg Club: Sturt Description: I haven't seen Wilson's name mentioned in a lot of places yet, but he is just yet another player from SA who I think could surprise everyone. He has played a fair bit of school football over the last 18 months, and he had a stretch of 6 weeks for Sturt in the U18s that was nothing short of excellent. He is a genuine ball winner, would be averaging close to 30 touches a game and has been involved in nearly every rebounding play. Not only that, but he is almost the prototypical size for a modern AFL player and is also one of the youngest in the draft. There is a lot to like, and a lot to work with. 73.Melbourne Player: James Magner Height: 178cm Weight: 82kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Mature-age, strong-bodied midfielder who won VFL club Sandringham's best and fairest in 2011. The courageous Magner spent three years at Frankston after finishing with the Dandenong Stingrays. An in-and-under player, he is competitive and strong and well regarded at VFL level. Played 17 games in his debut season for Melbourne off the rookie list. Works his backside off and deserves the elevation. 74.Melbourne Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 75.Essendon Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 76.Carlton Player: Tom Bell Height: 187cm Weight: 95kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Defender who can also play midfield. Has a huge tank, shown by his level 15.1 beep test at the State Draft Combine. Played seven games in 2012. 77.St Kilda Player: Sam Dunnell Height: 190cm Weight: 81kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Sam Dunell was St Kilda's first player taken in the 2011 Rookie Draft, pick 12. A mature-age midfielder, he has gone from playing with Old Melburnians in the A-grade amateurs to AFL football in one year. Possessing great endurance, with good hands, he showed plenty in the VFL with Bendigo Bombers late 2011, averaging 10 disposals and one score assist per match. In July 2011, Sam was selected for the Victorian Amateur Football Association representative side that defeated Vic Country in Shepparton where he kicked 2 goals. Prior to that, he took part in the National U23 Amateurs Championship held in South Australia. The Victorians won the competition where Dunell was named in the best in 3 of the 4 games and earned All-Australian honours for the tournament. The son of Frank Dunell, who played for Essendon's Premiership winning side in 1984 and the Brisbane Bears, Sam is a gifted sportsman having played a lot of senior district cricket. Sam played 5 matches for the St Kilda Football Club during 2012. 78. North Melbourne Player: Majak Daw Height: 195cm Weight: 94kg Club: Rookie Upgrade Description: Played a full season as Werribee's No. 1 ruckman as he continued his impressive development in 2011 & 12. At his best, Daw is an exhilarating playercheck out a few of his running goals last year on YouTubebut he needs to improve his consistency. Will be promoted otherwise would be delisted. 79. Geelong Player: Marlon Motlop Height: 179cm Weight: 80kg Club: Swan Districts Description: There was never any real question as to whether Marlon Motlop had the talent to play AFL football, it's just that he could never really put it together when he was at Port Adelaide. But since making the move back to WA and Swan Districts this year, he has been nothing short of excellent. Playing off of half back, he is averaging well over 20 disposals a game and is really making them count too. Every team is seemingly looking for that Andrew McLead/Roger Hayden type defender these days, so Motlop is every chance of getting another shot at the big league. 80. Fremantle Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 81.West Coast Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 82. Collingwood Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 83. Adelaide Player: PASS Height: Weight: Club: Description: 84. Hawthorn Player: PASS Height: Weight: Description: 85.Port Adelaide Player: Oliver Johnson Height: 181cm Weight: 73kg Club: West Adelaide Description: Johnson is just a real clearance machine. Started the year off on fire racking up huge numbers of both possessions and clearances. He's not overly big but looks a type who could fill out into a solid size. Not the greatest kick going around but he's adequate and when you're picking late in the draft you're not going to get a player without flaws. This would allow Melbourne to target in the PSD: Player: Ben Jacobs Height: 185cm Weight: 82kg Club: Port Adelaide Description: The strongly built defender finished with 12 games in his debut season. Had a slow start to the season because of glandular fever, which sidelined him for five weeks. Underwent ankle surgery at the end of the season 2011 and will further improve as his body develops. Now played 26 matches and appears a good fit for the Dees with his neat disposal and run and spread. As for the rookie draft I'd be hoping for Melbourne to delist and then re-draft Bartram as a rookie to give him another 12 months to see if he can get over that knee injury which could end his career. This allows Melbourne two active rookie picks and the ability to sign two band 1 rookies (internationals I think) so I'd be looking at rookie listing: Player: Clint Bartram Height: 181cm Weight: 82kg Club: Rookie demotion Description: The tough small defender/midfielder produced a solid year before a hip injury derailed his season in 2011. He played a couple of games in the VFL before returning to perform well in run-with roles on Daniel Kerr, Trent Cotchin and Gary Ablett. Although he needs to work on his disposal under pressure, at just 23 and with 95 games under his belt, he can perform difficult tasks for the Demons. He played the openning 8 games of season 2012 before a serious knee injury threatened to end his career. Player: Chase Bower Height: 189cm Weight: 79kg Club: Norwood Description: I was disappointed to see that Bower was not part of the SA squad for the U18 Championships, but he was always going to be on the fringes. Like last year, Bower has been splitting his time between U18s and Reserves football in the SANFL and he has really developed into a solid defender. But versatility is Bower's main weapon, and he can play pretty much anywhere on the ground - has filled key roles at both ends of the ground, as well as being an attacking option in the midfield. He is very quick, attacks the play well and is also fairly strong above his head. Player: Chen Shao Liang (Int) Height: 184cm Weight: 72kg Country: China Description: Medium defender type with brilliant leg power. His vertical jump is in the rare category. A standing jump of 86cm and a running jump of 99cm at the China Combine in July were reflective of his background in volleyball and basketball. An exciting athlete that has excelled at school in short distance track events and displays a real desire to learn the game and improve. Is the first player to be selected from the AFL China Academy program in Guangshou, Southern China. Player: Sean Hurley (Int) Height: 195cm Weight: 91kg Country: Ireland Description: A tall midfielder/key position player from County Kildare in the Leinster Province. His endurance base, athleticism and overhead marking are real strengths. He is a pure competitor and has a genuine appetite for the one-on-one contest, whilst being a sound kick on his preferred right foot. This year he played football with Kildare in the All-Ireland Senior Championship. A very promising player with a desire to learn and impressed as a representative of the European Legion youth team vs the Australian Under-18 team in Surrey, England in April 2012. Curious as to everyone's thoughts?

Not sure what the rest of the post had to say - as the same story could be offered by many on this forum stemming from a range of differing backgrounds. This section was the only part of your post where you could have elaborated on the reason for your disillusion and withdrawal from the club - not sure why you wouldn't do so given that you'd spent the time to come onto the forum to declare your intentions. Being banned from a forum has zero to do with ones' support from a club. I'm not sure why you think supporting Richmond would be better in that sense - or what benefit you think getting away with said banning would have from being a Richmond fan. If you wish to desert the Melbourne Football Club, don't come on here and act like it is someone else's fault - it is your decision and your decision alone. We'd be stronger for you to stay the course but if you choose to leave, ultimately, it's entirely up to you. Don't act like the "blood" is on 'Land users' hands.

I can't work out if this is serious or not. Following an oppostion club? Unthinkable. At least we know who Paul Gardiner was talking about when he referred to fickle supporters. I congratulate Rhino for banning you. Can't believe you would have such a sook about it that you would give up.

To be fair, if this ends his career, it will be via a retirement, not a delisting. But I get your point. Tru, dis. Really? Do you think Petterd et al want their deficiencies broadcast to the entire AFL world? 'Hey, other 17 clubs, I got delisted because I was lazy and didn't train hard enough. Get around me!' Let the players ride off into the sunset, or better yet, try to get a new gig somewhere else, without shaming them. They didn't fit at MFC, for whatever reason, and that's all that matters. The club doesn't owe you, or me, or any other supporter, an obligation to tell us about each and every decision it makes.

we need O'Rourke's polish, pace and skill, we need Wines' hunger, physicality and intensity. We cannot lose. I'd go with Wines, purely because we wouldn't need to worry about our engine room for another decade with him and Viney lining up together. There's always classy mids, we'll nab one (or 4) in next years draft.

I hope you've got a good microwave.

What nonsense. When any employee finishes up, for whatever reason, the employer says "thanks for all your efforts, all the best for the future" and usually gives a hand to get them a new job. No different in an AFL footy club.

I know WYL, what your getting at, but to focus the anger so tightly on "that game", diminishes the extent of the problem the MFC has, & has has for a long long time, in peoples minds, and so minimisers the effort we all are willing to act on. The truth is it s been around since the late Seventies, at the very least. And my guess is since shortly after Norm finished. Barass & Jordan cleaned a lot of it out & did a lot of repair, probably a loose guess, got us to 85% disciplined & professional before they finished up. IMO it takes a hard disciplinarian Coach to instill the disciplines into a group without them, so after Barass & Jordans boys finished they're careers, the wheels began to fall again. Casual coaches IMO breed casual cultures, ours has been layed back again, since we've had the layed back type coaches, for the last 20 years. We all IMO need to become aware of this, so WE Don't continue to be a part of the problem that causes this scourge on our very own club. The problem is our players get way ahead of themselves shortly after joining our club. And we all contribute to that end, & I've been as guilty of it as anyone. Pumping them up when they haven't deserved a kick in the pants, let alone a game in the jumper. Neeld is on the right path, he's done a cleanup & put the salts thru a few, now the whip should start to crack at Melbourne, & no boss Dogs or long tails to Wag about. Indians, hard working Indians.

Langdon's opinion can be safely disregarded. He struggles with understanding how to open his letterbox, let alone what goes on at footy clubs that are not WCE.

I don't pretend to be a football expert, but I do know we've been rubbish for six years. 2011 was fool's gold IMO - beating up on interstate teams at the G and the Suns. We got whipped every time it counted. Neeld is turning the Titanic: the players are becoming defensively stronger, fitter and more disciplined. The weak culture that has clearly infected our playing list is being cleared out, as are the NQR players (Stef Martin, anyone? Couldn't hit the side of a barn door as a forward and lacks stamina as a ruck.) Frankly, I'm delighted. Jared Rivers is the only one I wish we'd kept, but I don't blame him for leaving to chase a few wins at the tail end of his career. As for Moloney, if I hear one more word about his B&F last year I'll spew. I'm only interested in performances against quality sides, which means Moloney would have finished about 28th in the 2011 B&F. Can't wait for 2013. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. We're about to get something different.

Maybe Tippett, should just claim that he was only going up to Sydney to have a look around.

Oh God. This is why we get so disappointed when our draftees don't automatically become superstars.

To coin a radio parlance term: long time reader, second time poster (maybe third) I am a tragic/optimistic supporter. Every year we witness the comings and goings of players, sometimes coaches, sometimes administrators which drives posters to make an assessment of such a transition, of which I sympathise and empathise somewhat. I have generally been disappointed to lose players/coaches and hopeful that the new players/coaches will make a significant impact in the next few years, preferably immediately. There are a few exceptions, of course. This year is significanlty different! I am not certain whether Mark Neeld is the 10 year successful coach that we clearly need, and there always seems to be a better coach/player/administrator somewherer else. Mark Neeld and his team This trading period has seen a cleanout - those who don't want to play for us (Rivers), and those who we don't want or are ambivalent towards (all the rest, seemingly). This has to be a good situation for the future, even if the short term doesn't produce the results I am hoping for. Kudos must go to Mark Neeld and coaching staff, for attempting to change the culture of mediocrity. How is this going to turn out? I certainly do not profess to know. I do however know that the status quo within the playing group had to be disrupted. Considering that the biggest externally viewable difference that occurred this year was the introduction of Mitch Clark, with his singular focus to make Melbourne successful, this is a supporter that the change has to come from without, so that they can inlfuence within. Good luck to the former Melbourne players. Welcome to the new, and may you be the foundation of the reinvigorated Demons

Give Viney 1, 5, 6 or 7. That way I can save a couple bob on my son's impending guernsey purchase.

Anyone who says that it is not a pass, i am truely shocked! We have filled so many holes during this trade period and there is still the draft to come and the PSD. We have picked up 3 strong fwds (Dawes, pedersen, Hogan), 3 speedy players (brynes, Rodan, barry) and a highly rated mid (viney) and we have gotten rid of a a few players that seemed to be pushed out as they no longer fitted with where we're going or are not performing (gysberts, Morton, Martin). With pick 4 we can address our midfield with a highly probable 10 year+ player and we can pick up others in the national and PS draft. I cannot get my head around how people can grade our F/A and trade period as a fail!?!?

Good effort DS Finally someone who has looked at the facts. Not the emotion.

Damian Barrett on Trade Radio has said we have been shafted.....so it must be right...NOT send the [censored] a tweet and tell him, I did.....Wallace going on about the changes, so sent a tweet about Hardwick doing the same thing at Richmond after another coach who's name escapes me was sacked