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Because both of these guys do something that those delisted guys don't. Do you want to know what that is? THEY HAVE A F#*KIN CRACK !!!!

As Real Demon says, it's too early to tell. Over the last few years I've often seen us given a very good rating by media "experts" and we know how most of those years have subsequently gone. On exposed form and with some knowledge of who has come in I'm over the moon. If all we'd done this trade period was get Hogan and Viney while being able to retain a pick inside the top 5 I would have been delighted. Just doing those things would have been a massive win for me. I genuinely believe that Hogan and Viney are going to be "stars". Some will say, but we've thought that before, so there are no guarantees. In fact you'd be forgiven for saying it's unlikely. But when I analyse those early picks that fail to live up to expectations in the world of the AFL there's a common theme. They tend to be either young talls that have a weakness - usually either pace, size, or the required appetite for brutal contests, or they're mids that are too outside. For example, early picks that have been underwhelming such as Morton, Fiora, Tambling, Oakley-Nichols and even Gibbs, fall into that category. I'm not as rapt in Dustin Martin as some, but his aggression and strength serve him well in the AFL. Viney and Hogan's skill sets will also serve them very well at AFL level. Dawes and Pedersen will really help our forward structure. I believe that Pedersen will prove to be an even better player than Dawes, but they'll be equally important in their roles. I'm less excited by Byrnes and Rodan, but Byrnes immediately becomes a best 22 player because he's the best small forward on the list. And the last time we traded for a NT zone selection we landed a young Jeff Farmer. We'll have to wait a while to see what we've got with Barry. Best 22 additions for 2013 - Viney, Dawes, Pedersen, Byrnes and pick 4. The last addition will be contentious for some, but if it happens to be Wines he'll play far more footy at Melbourne than Casey. That's 5 additions, which is almost a quarter of your best 22. How many other clubs will have improved their best 22 by 20% in the off season ? That's enormous. Carlton improved theirs by 0%. Rivers is the only best 22 to walk out and he plays in the one area of the ground in which we're pretty well off. As for the departures: Martin - handy back-up ruck, but not a great tap ruckman and a worse forward. He's an athletic gumby with average to poor endurance. There's every likelihood that there will be two subs and less rotations from 2014 and this will hurt Martin as a footballer. Jimmy Stynes would have been a star in this era due to his elite endurance running, but a player like Martin will be exposed. Morton - I'd given up on him a while ago, despite his talent, and clearly he would have been delisted if he wasn't contracted. Gysberts for Pedersen is a win for me. Pedersen will play 22 games next year and Gysberts wasn't close to best 22. Pedersen will have an important role in our forward structure and the other player is some way off being a quality mid. Moloney - ball-ups went from 11 seconds in 2011 to 4 seconds in 2012. This didn't help Moloney set up at the stoppages. With the new rule meaning that the ball is going to be thrown up around the ground it's only going to get quicker. He's probably a decent fit for Brisbane, but being so one dimensional wasn't great at a club with a poor midfield group. Rivers - a loss, but we were [censored] with him in the one area of the ground where we should be OK. My care factor is either side of zero. Green - slow and was done and dusted. Let's look at "What we just did": Two years ago we had the youngest list outside of the Suns. Before this draft period we had the most number of first round draft picks along with GWS. It's little wonder we recruited some seasoned bodies on the back of losing Green, Rivers and Moloney. Neeld wants structure. This year at various times once Clark went down we had Rivers and Garland as forwards. With Dawes and Pedersen we now have a solid forward structure that makes Clark and Howe even more dangerous. As stated, Byrnes will immediately be better than any other small forward we have. Melbourne are still very young and will be a hell of a lot better next year. Our 25 and unders will include Clark, Dawes, Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Frawley, Tom McDonald, Blease, Watts, Howe, Tapscott, Garland, McKenzie as well as Viney. That's 14, plus there's Strauss, Taggert, Tynan, Gawn, and pick 4 in this year's draft. It works for me.

What did we just do? Owned the trade period. You might not realise it now though.

Pick 53 will be used in the draft. Maybe a Paul Marschall, HBF with good skills and pace or a Mason Wood, tall outside goal kicking left foot wingman. While pick 73 will probably be used to upgrade Magner who works his backside off and sets a good example. Gysberts wouldn't have been in our best 22 next year. And with Viney and probably Wines coming in would fall further down the pecking order. Pedersen will be in our best 22. Morton was traded for Pick 88 which is the pick we used to get Rodan, so it was Morton for Rodan. I'll take that! If you take into account that Viney cost us pick 3 as we needed to enter into the mini draft, our trading period looks like this: Pick3 for Viney Pick 13 for Hogan Pick 26 for Dawes Pick 45 for Barry Rivers & Moloney for Byrnes & Pick 49 Martin for Pick 53 & rookie upgrade pick Gysberts & Pick 63 for Pedersen & rookie upgrade pick Morton for Rodan When you look at it like that we have a net gain IMO.

The DB mantra was "get rid off the old guard, get games into the kids". This strategy clearly failed, leading to a dysfunctional culture devoid of leadership and structure that culminated in 186. Neeld walks in and declares his aim is to make us "the toughest team to play against" In his first year, he is left with the legacy of the DB years. He restructures the coaching and management side of things, but is left with the same cattle. He makes it clear that what is needed is: 1. Fitness 2. Toughness 3. Defense The year ends with few wins, however, it is now clear to him who can fit in within his framework and who cant. He looks at who is available on the market, and quite successfully attracts a good number of experienced players to the fold whose main purpose is to enforce the culture HE is creating. Its clear to me now that Neelds strategy is broad and well thought out. He is cleaning out the softness and replacing it with toughness. He is instilling us with courage and determination.

some of the facebook comments are gold... "We could have drafted Jack Darling instead of Lucas Cook... God I hope we've got some new recruiters for this year's draft" " WTF? I can't believe we delisted Liam Jurrah." " Are there going to be any players left in 2013 that we know??????" " Give jai Sheehan another rookie spot. Deserves it. Melbourne needs more key position players." "Why Liam Jurrah? I know hes upto no good but keep him away from his RIFF RAFF family/friends AND he could be BETTER footballer and ALLROUNDER. person in life in genreal. Any 2nd decisions? And letting "THE PUBLIC" decide as well and more CONSULTING to its TRUE SUPPORTERS & MEMBERS" "Neald is a joke."

Morton Gysberts Cook Bate What a waste of picks inside pick 15. Add other first rounders McLean, Smith, Molan At least the Rodent delivered compensation that will be twice as good as his output.

People were shocked at my bold predictions DC. Next year I predict a huge comeback for pastels and prints.

What "talent" have we sacrificed? The underperforming underwhelming Morton and Gysberts: two who have either refused to fit into the hard fit Neeld requirement, or who are unable to do so? Martin who is now surplus to our requirements?You say that history has proven that youth is the key - like at the reigning Premiers? Not! Balance and hard mature bodies are the key, not speculative feeble youth, though one needs youth, strong hungry youth, to develop. FCS to suggest that Neeld is the worst mistake since Norm Smith's sacking is drawing an incredibly long bow.......there have been so many disasters since then that it is far too early to make any such call. IMVHO Neeld is more likely to be the best thing we have had since Norm than anything approaching nothing near the worst. At least, to paraphrase John Kennedy ( not the assassinated US President, but the first Hawks Premiership coach) he has at least " done something" when so many of his predecessors have done nothing. GO DEMONS - BRING ON 2013 so we can mute the negative soothsayers!

IN: hope OUT: under-achievement, wasted talent, ill-discipline and athletic deficiencies

Good post BH. I think for the reasons you pointed out for failed high draft picks, if there's a choice in it, we must take Wines. Not that the others are slouches in winning contested footy, but he would appear to be king in this regard. And his competitive beast mentality is the sealer. As for recruiting experienced players, I've come to believe there is a lot to be said for the effective development of young players, by providing a system where they can actually perform their role. Fielding a team full of kids that gets smashed each week, will not be beneficial for the kids getting the games. Once they have had a taste and understand the requirements of AFL level footy, it is no longer of use to them to simply get a game. They must get a game in a side that is capable of maintaining its structure, so that they can actually get experience in performing the role being asked of them. It's like the old saying "perfect practice makes perfect." Practising in a side that gets belted week in and week out, only serves to make the players good at copping beltings and trying to limit the damage. We need players with the right mentality, with mature bodies, who can perform sufficiently to get us playing our game the way we want. Enough so that the kids playing alongside them get some worthwhile experience, not just clocking up arbitrary minutes in the TOG column of the stat sheet. This ties in with the mentality that Neeld has brought to the club of using every minute of every training session of every day for continual improvement. Training for training's sake is not a mentality we should foster, and the same can be said for playing games. Bailey was probably unintentionally fostering this very mentality with his discussion of "getting games into players." I must admit, I was sucked in by it. No longer.

Maybe Tippett, should just claim that he was only going up to Sydney to have a look around.

If you stop supporting this club I will buy an extra membership every year in your stead. You are a nasty and bitter troll, and I don't like the way you post on Demonland!

Absolutely stoked with what we just did. Cut out dead wood that was going nowhere - Morton - skinny and useless, Martin tall and more useless, Gysberts - potentially an ok footballer - reality couldn't run out of sight on a dark night - in today's game useless. Got in a few culture changers - hard workers who will help make us competitive in the short to mid terms. Shored up a couple of good kids - JV , Hogan, pick 4 and a quick unknown quantity with X factor in Dom Barry. Absolutely sick of watching games of footy looking at boys playing a mans game and getting smashed in the process. We have plenty of talented kids, hopefully now have a few more level headed mature types to steady the ship regardless of if they are bona fide stars, bit players or depth - do not kid yourselves, we need all of these types, we have been lacking in many areas for a longtime. The FD have started to make some serious changes to change the culture of the place, recreate an age spread and give some experience from teams at have excelled. Once again stoked with what has transpired

We started out with 3,4,13 and 26. We spent 3 and 13 (effectively the Scully comp) on Hogan and Barry as well as Dawes with the pick 20 (became 21) we had thrown in. So Scully got us Hogan, Barry and Dawes. We still kept 4, which I'm certain will be used on Wines. The biggest steal of the whole trade period was getting Viney in the second round. We traded out some guys who despite their lofty original draft positions were not in our best 22 (Morton, Martin, Gysberts). We added a bit of short term leadership in Byrnes and Rodan which cost us nothing and Pedersen who may or may not be any good, but couldn't be any less effective than most of the blokes wehave let go. I'd say we have done reasonably well, but time will tell. Our biggest loss was Rivers.

I drove past the MCG today and both thumbs on the Norm Smith statue were up.

I don't know if Mark Neeld's approach will be a success or failure but he is certainly sending a strong message for us the supporters, the football public but most importantly, the players on the list. Train hard and train my way. Play hard and play my way. If you chose otherwise to either of these you will be at Casey this season (note the dropping of Green, Davey, Moloney, Sylvia, Blease, Morton,etc and the none playing of Gysberts) and at seasons end you will be gone. Will this approach be successful ? I dont know - but we cannot keep on doing what we were doing pre Neeld - half arsed, close enough good enough, I'm an AFL footballer so thats enough for me type performances and seasons. This is the most focused and directional I have seen this club in my lifetime and although internally I am shuddering at some of the trades I absolutely hear the Neeld message screaming in my ears. I for one say - Hurrah !!

The more I think about it the more I realise that we as supporters look at our players as draft pick numbers. We think that because they were a high pick they are worth more. What Neeld and the footy departments realise is that once they are in the AFL system they are just another player and a draft number counts for nothing. They obviously rank these players as below average and therefore do not mind getting rid of them if we get something that we want in return i.e. Gysberts for Pedersen. I hope all our decisions work out but it goes to show there is no exact way to do things. You can pick up a Dane Swan at pick 40 something and he turns out to be a super star, or you can take a Jarrad Oakley Nicholls at a high pick and he ends up a dud. Go Dees!

O'Rourke currently weighs 78 kgs. Get your facts straight. After his first pre-season he will weigh 80+ kgs. Hardly a skinny kid. He also has some of the best disposal, decision making, and pace in this draft. He plays both inside and outside and has elite endurance. He plays outside more successfully than his teammates due to his superior skills and pace. He also plays inside well, with nearly 40% of his disposals in the recent championships being contested. He's a well rounded midfielder in the Scott Pendlebury mould, and would be a great fit for our list. The fact he is being made out to be a skinny outside player on here is f*cking mind-boggling. He is a well composed kid, is already performing at a good level and has far more scope for improvement than most others. Whoever gets him is getting a winner.

To coin a radio parlance term: long time reader, second time poster (maybe third) I am a tragic/optimistic supporter. Every year we witness the comings and goings of players, sometimes coaches, sometimes administrators which drives posters to make an assessment of such a transition, of which I sympathise and empathise somewhat. I have generally been disappointed to lose players/coaches and hopeful that the new players/coaches will make a significant impact in the next few years, preferably immediately. There are a few exceptions, of course. This year is significanlty different! I am not certain whether Mark Neeld is the 10 year successful coach that we clearly need, and there always seems to be a better coach/player/administrator somewherer else. Mark Neeld and his team This trading period has seen a cleanout - those who don't want to play for us (Rivers), and those who we don't want or are ambivalent towards (all the rest, seemingly). This has to be a good situation for the future, even if the short term doesn't produce the results I am hoping for. Kudos must go to Mark Neeld and coaching staff, for attempting to change the culture of mediocrity. How is this going to turn out? I certainly do not profess to know. I do however know that the status quo within the playing group had to be disrupted. Considering that the biggest externally viewable difference that occurred this year was the introduction of Mitch Clark, with his singular focus to make Melbourne successful, this is a supporter that the change has to come from without, so that they can inlfuence within. Good luck to the former Melbourne players. Welcome to the new, and may you be the foundation of the reinvigorated Demons

What did we just do? We got rid of those that don't train or play to the standard that will push the club to the standard it is required to be at to win a premiership. We got rid of those that do not possess the build or hunger for the contest required to win a premiership. We gained experience of players that do know what is required of a premiership. We gained mature bodies that can withstand the rigours and contests required of a premiership.

Hi All. Heard on the grape vine today (from an unusual source, so may not be true) that the Club is into getting Mitch Banner & Ben Warren in the upcoming delisted free agent period. I will keep my thoughts to myself on this. Im also going down to the NT Thunder training this week to get together a bit of a BIO about Dom Barry for you guys on this forum. Speak to you then. Cheers, Hells Gates.

I believe there are a few positives to come out of the past month. a) Clean out of poor attitude and leadership. (Save for Jared Rivers to whom I wish nothing but success), we have been whipping boys for the whole league for 6 years, so we can sit and debate the merit of the clean out as much as we like, at least we are taking a different approach B) Net games gained - raw numbers suggested we are a mile away for competing for place outside of the bottom 4 if we continue to go down the recruit 8 kids and hope they become stars, line again, we will field a team that averages 65 games experience for the next 4 years; just like we have the past 4 years. c) We might have a chance of winning. We might not be challenging for top 4 next year, but at least we are bringing in experience that might give us a chance of teaching our 'young stars' how to win a game. For 6 years, we've been lucky to put 4 consecutive quarters together... I for one want to make my way to the G thinking we have a chance of pushing some teams d) 24 yr old premiership structural key forwards with 76 games experience dont grow on trees. This time last year, the football world was questioning us sacrificing pick 12 for Mitch Clark... last time I checked, no-one has been regretting that decision. e) All the focus wont be on Wines and Viney; It will be on the older talent that we've supposedly sold the farm for. And our new young talent can come in, and develop without the pressure of the burden of being the sole hope of a Demon revival. Bring on 2013!

I see it like this. Who would I rather Dom Barry was training alongside: Jordan Gysberts or David Rodan?

I'm disappointed to see Bennell go........only because old dee's post match reviews won't be as funny to read

I'd say the most depressing part about our delisting of Bate is that we could have gotten the Bulldogs 2nd round pick for him last season!!!

eednurg

Didn't know you were into poetry, H.

Ricky went from big debut to big disappointment. He had 2 tricks, he was hard and a good contested mark. That's it. He did absolutely nothing in the games that weren't his few stand-out games. I understand he was a bit of a fan favourite, but to be surprised that he's delisted, really? And we couldn't trade him because no one would give up anything for him, Morton got an 88 and Ricky isn't in Morton's league. Glad Bennell is gone, thought he might get a free pass being injured. Bit surprised with Sheehan, like the way he moves. But we actually have AFL level talls now, suppose there's no need for all the speculative ones.

KAKADU not KOKODA

Plenty of similarities between this and Scully-gate. Narcissistic Gen Y's with overblown feelings of entitlement, and the greedy parents who made them that way. Just add money-grubbing people managers and you have a recipe for this sort of thing.

It'd be fair to say you have no clue what TH's role is within the club. I'd stop posting on this topic before you embarrass yourself any more.

Those hating on Harrington do not understand his role. He works for the coach & Footy Dept. Harrington would know the footballers available each year. Bailey wanted a certain type. Neeld wants different types. He was interviewed last night on Radio. He is no fool. If you must blame someone, whoever put the handbrake on Bailey is a good start.

4 wins last year. Drastic changes were needed and they have just begun. I have wanted the axe to be swung and it has. Morton,gys and martin were de listed in my view and it doesn't bother me at all. Swing away mark neeld.

We should have just left the playing list as is and got games into the young players cause theyve got potential. Like thats worked in the last SIX LONG years. Geez some of you are hard to please. Neeld is finally making some decisions which should have been made previously but werent. Thanks god some one is DOING something about the list. Get behind Neeld and stop with the carry on. There is actually some hope for next season which I did not have prior to the trade period.

The only thing that really grates on me is the thought that MAYBE Gysberts and Morton could still turn into decent players - someone like Josh Kennedy and his progress haunts me. Tha fact that both were very high draft picks gives me the [censored] and is hard to let go of - but so is Cook at #12. Reality is I was holding out hope on two blokes I've seen occasional brilliance from but nothing, absolutely nothing when the going gets tough and we need them. The blokes leading them were also aweful at this. I spoke with Neita today and he was rapt with Rodan - a hard tough give everything a crack type player who can show Viney and Wines whats possible with just a little talent. So on that front I'll trust our record holder. Drafts are also great in 20/20 - but if we had taken Cook at #52 and McDonald at #12 right now I reckon we'd all be very pleased with the recruiting, one was right big time, was simply was Jack Darling. But Hogan is - and more. I know picking a team for Rd1 will be tougher when Rodan, Byrnes, Pederson and Dawes all demand a game as mature bodies with big pre-season's behind them, encouraging a Dunn to do the same....so that's 5 spots taken, who gets the other 17? unlikely to be weak, skinny but skillful types. Overall I love the Neeld approach - he can lead and make tough calls no doubt, can he coach? McDonald says "yes"; Gysberts says "no"?????? GO Dees.

I'm unsure about what we accomplished with the Martin trade, but other than that I couldn't be happier. The Morton trade was a token trade to get the guy off the list. The coach is clearly not a fan so fair enough. All in all we shed players who can't or won't play the coach's game and replaced them with players who meet a need. I'm happy.

I am overall happy with the fact that we have been aggressive with some trades and mark Neeld is puttin together a team that he feels he can work with. The team clearly needed some turnover. Over the next 2-3 years we will find out if it works... Gysberts was one I really wanted to keep but I don't really know what goes on at the club. In Neeld I trust!

I've been listening to TWR since the start of the trade period. In summary we have been slammed by Barret since the start, and after all the bs opinionated tripe he dished up this year, its clear he has an issue with the MFC - hack journo and a [censored] to boot. We shouldn't waste our breath our Terry Wallace. Apart from blaming the tigers woes under him due to lack of resources, he also claimed partial credit for their resurgent midfield today. Yesterday, after analysing West Coasts list he said the eagles don't have a ruck after Cox and NicNat, to which a caller pointed out Scott Lycett, he then rambled about how he's more of a forward. In short, the blokes opinion matters very little to me. What I'm curious about is why, as a club trying to become competitive, we are continously beaten down by these irrelevant muppets. As for all the people on here complaining about our draft period just think about the players regardless of draft picks- IN Rodan: Senior body, who fills a role for 1-2 years while the younger blokes develop. Win if he stays on the park. Pedo: Similar age to Martin but offers much more. I assume him and sellar will compete for the same spot, thus creating depth. Byrnes: Crying out for even a pass rate small forward this year, he's no star but will fill a gaping void for 1-2 years. Dawes: Straightens our spine, huge win Hogan: Looks the goods, fantastic prospect who has the rig to provide a contest from 2014. Barry: Prospect, doubt he will play next year, thats why the acquisition of a guy like Rodan was important. Viney: Gun attack on the footy, great attitude, mature body Wines/Toumpas/O'Rourke: If wines or toumpas will inject quality from next year, O'Rourke has big upside but will not play much next year. OUT Morton: has shown next to nothing after 70 odd games which is ample time to develop on your shortcomings, has terrible disposal especially on the run that has hurt us numerous times, soft, ran away from lade which I will never forgive him for. Gysberts: Inside midfielder who probably couldn't bench press 75% of his bodyweight and after many years has not improved his upper body strength at all which points to a terrible attitude, can't break into the 3rd worse team in the league. Martin: Key word here is promise. Has promised for years but delivered one decent season. Poor decision making and should be influencing games more than he is at his age. Cook (potential out): Drafted as a forward but without critical skills needed to play his role e.g. lacks pace off the mark, doesn't influence the contest nearly enough and has not come on like he should have in 2 years. Moloney: Flat track bully. Jones does his job far better. Rivers: The only one I'm dissapointed with, however, big questions over his knees. The inclusion of Pederson might soften the blow. Hardwick cleaned out Richmonds list over a few years, the same is happening to us - I just don't see why people are complaining, mediocrity is not fun, nor is getting belted every week. The mature bodies like Rodan & Byrnes won't be around by the time we make finals, but they will mean we are more competitive in the interim while our young list develops.

Think of the Pedersen trade this way - we traded a player out that we didn't see as best 22, and I suspect not even close, for a player we expect to be best 22 and play an important structural role. It's a big win for me.

The good thing about Pedersen is that he offers us a slightly different type of key forward. He is a very mobile player that is as comfortable presenting to the ball as he is carrying the ball from higher up the ground. Dawes is a presenting, competing forward, as is Hogan. Clark is the pea and Pedersen is a more mobile and flexible player. Think of it like West Coast, who ideally play Kennedy, Lynch, Cox and Darling in the same forward line. Pedersen is much more like Darling than our others are. It also indicates that Howe will be almost exclusively a midfielder.

Cale will slip seamlessly into a premiership team next year and will wear his Premiership Medallion with pride................................good chance Claremont will go back to back

I support Neeld mate. I just don't support the bloke who has been making atrocious list management decisions for 3 years. When you're the list manager of the worst list in the league, some questions need to be asked.

Calm down? I'm opening a bottle of my best!!!!! Best trade period EVER.

Not a flattering photo that one. In fairness though, it was a stiff breeze.

and what would be your solution for 2013 Pant?More of the last 5 years?

For those of you that have studied accounting, you would have come across an acronym FIFO in relation stock valuations (stands for First In First Out). When dealing with change management (and clearly Neeld is trying to change MFC) then FIFO has a whole different interpretation - FIT IN or F**K OFF. There comes a point in time in change mangement when all the talking, cajoling, persausion, justification and BS is no longer effective and you just have to FIFO. I believe that time has now come for MFC - either get on board with the plan or get out and let someone else take your ticket. Only time will tell whether these trades are positive or not and that will be determined not by the number of wins we have but the manner in which we execute the plan. To me loses will be acceptable so long as the personnel on and off the field have accepted the plan and executed it to the best of their ability.

Clarke Dawes Pederson. We now Finally have a forward line that will keep opposition defenders busy. Our crumbers will finally have something to crumb to if only our midfield can get it there

We've lost a couple of slow old guys, a couple of softies and one seemingly soft of the mind. We've gained a couple of quick old guys, young KPF's = structure. + Viney and Barry. I give it an A. I don't care what we gave up to get what we want, we got what we needed. Scattergun? At least it's not Barry the sniper Prendagast picking off his own men. The list needed to be shaken up, the culture needs changing, the club and Neeld have started it, I believe it'll work.

They gave us pick 88 and we are paying part of his salary. They didn't want him that much but he is a cheap pick 88 for them. Face it Cale is a pea-heart with questionable skills and ZERO defensive mindset. I am the happiest guy around here now that he has gone. He is a coach killer that refuses to play to team rules and whom other players didn't trust him (direct quote from Rawlings)