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It seems to me that some Melbourne supporters have kind of slipped into a welfare mentality where we think we haven't been afforded enough by the system. We want it all but don't want to have to pay for it. We have been massively overcompensated for Scully, something which we all acknowledge. We've had priority picks and bail outs by the AFL but it's still not enough. Obviously we all hope we can snag young Jack in the second round, but suggestions that we should not take the bloke simply because we have to pay about what his worth is just indicative of the handout mentality we have fallen into. If you'd told me at the start of the year thy we were going to have the picks we have now I would have laughed at you. Even after all of our failed recruiting and our questionable culture we have an opportunity to capitalise on ANOTHER draft. We have the opportunity to draft a heart and soul player. The son of a Demon great. We know better than anyone that there are no guarantees come draft time. Viney is the surest thing we've had come our way in a decade and the idea that some people want a bargain more than they want this animal on our side is unfathomable. Pay up people, I'm going to love watching this bloke play footy and I reckon you are too. Especially alongside his fellow draftees who are bought in under a new regime destined to take this side away from the dark place where we have resided for far too long.

If that is the case it's pretty simple we take him at 3. No drama at all.

Disagree completely. For a start they weren't values they were behaviours. That means they were judged on their actions, not on abstracts like values. There is a large difference imo. These behaviours were decided by the group after a lot of discussion of what they wanted out of their leaders. As Neeld said, if maturity and experience were a criteria it would rule out 90% of the list. What he didn't say was the 10% remaining would be the same guys who were rejected by the process, the same guys who led us to 186. It seems this is Neelds attempt to break the soft leadership culture that has thrived at Melbourne as long as I can remember. Hollywood Boulevarde needed to be demolished and Neeld got out the wrecking ball as soon as he arrived. I just hope he can build something out of the ruins.

honestly mate....just give it a rest....or start being a supporter. you choose

But two Wrights make an aeroplane.

Have they run out of salary cap room? How could that happen, unless they were paying someone way too much?

Especially the way he described Liam Jurrah's predicament. He spoke with warmth and great empathy and I feel better now about the circumstances in which Liam left the MFC.

Prior to immigrating to Australai with my family and in the early to mid 90's as an adult I lived on the foot of the Dublin/Wicklow mountains in Tallaght, which is west of Rathfarnam where the great man hails from. I used to spend a lot of time running in the mountains and Sally Gap is a beautiful place and I can understand why Jimmy wished for his ashes to be scattered there. I am heading back next year for a wedding and shall take my kids to Sally Gap to pay my respects to the great man. R.I.P Jim we (the Dees) will make you proud one day

Just listened to the podcasts- thanks Felix. Just confirmed to me (yet again) that Neeld is the solution for this club. As an aside, I really hope Rivers recommits to the MFC. He should be a one club player.

Haha RR making a poll to work out the most ludicrous poster.... I'm on irony overload

We lost Scully and we got pick 4 and pick 13. If we're forced to draft Viney at 3, we will still have pick 4 and pick 13. How does logic seem to fail some people?

FFS how many threads are going to be started re JV, it's not that difficult he will be a Dee next year and we will use whatever pick it takes. If we want Toumpas or O'Rourke than stay away from the Mini draft another Jesse Hogan will pop up next season and if not and we still have plenty of room in the salary cap Patton and Cameron are only signed up to the end of 2013. Jack Viney at 3 if we have to does not concern me, Fyfe, Rioli, Dangerfield were not rated top 5 now look at them they would all be at least Top 3 Just take him

I thought it was a great opportunity for David King to ask questions to support his rant earlier in the season for MFC to cut their losses and sack Mark after a 8-9 rounds. Of course he wimped out……gees, these journos / commentators love dishing it out when they don't have to face their adversary but when they do, they don't have the guts. It tells me how much of a theatre our game is.

Everyone thats saying he can simply come back after 2 years..Why would we wait. It will cost us as much then as now to secure him. GC wouldnt just hand him up. After 2 years in the system and more than likely a gun, he'll cost. (probably more Why not simply admit this , pay up if we have to and have the benefit of having him now, have others around him enjoying it too. Im sick and tired of planning for 2-3 years down the track by playing with some swap card mentality collecting picks etc. Picks etc are there to be used. ,not collected and banked as such, theyre the coin of the football realm. Yes, you are supposed to spend it, just wisely.

I will start by saying I have a poor opinion of our list and that is probably not news. It astounds me how many people on Demonland are never happy. Here are two guys training early in there holiday period in Melbourne. They are not getting drunk somewhere or being arrested for kicking a car etc. No they training in mid September. Well that looks like good news to me. Can we just for once accept that some of our players are serious about their futures and leave it at that. Please keep your prejudices in check for five minutes.

Dees take flight with Webjet The Melbourne Football Club is delighted to announce that Webjet has extended their partnership with the Club for the 2013 season. Good to see the corporate world has faith in us ( again ) Dees keep BOTH major sponsors. You beaudy !!! Well done to all and thansk Webjet....and Opel

I wouldn't mind if it IS us - there are many players who have shown that they are happy by their leadership and by re-signing with the club. If they were unhappy then they wouldn't have stuck around. The ones who will be unhappy are the ones who got it easy during the Dean Bailey era and are now being asked to work much harder than they want to.

I can't believe how many are missing the main point here. The issue is not "if he is worth pick 3, I'm happy to take him with pick 3". Worth is irrelevant. The issue is "we have an OPPORTUNITY to maximise our drafting position by trying to ensure that we can take him in the second round." Even if JV was far and away the best player in the draft, as a club we would still need to be doing absolutely everything in our power to ensure that we could take him in the second round. It's not about worth, it's about capitalising on an opportunity. Given our recent track record with making the most of our opportunities, I'm not all that confident. But we can only hope. I know what Carlton would be doing.

My Brother sat next to Garry Lyon 10 years ago at a dinner. He'd managed property for Lyon so knew him quite well. He asked whether any of his 3 boys could be potential F/S's. He said no, but keep your eye on young Jack Viney, he's an absolute gun. Viney was 8 at the time. It's fair to say that my Brother and I have been tracking him for a long time, right through 4 B&F's in a row at Ashburton Junior Football Club, when he played with and was better than Toby Greene. He's always been better than Toby Greene. Viney is the best inside mid in the draft and the hardest junior midfielder most observers have ever seen. We're lucky he'll be at Melbourne next year. And it will be the beginning of a new era at the club.

You sort of get the impression from some that JV is just an average player whos old man was a Dee Jack Viney will be one of the most standout impact players weve had in a long long time. and btw... i hear he eats trolls for breakfast !!!

I figured there would be one anyway so I thought Id get it started. For anyone attending can they please answer some questions for me. 1) Was Moloney there and were there other players missing 2) Speeches. I presume Don and Mark will speak. What did they say 3) Im assuming Jones will win. What did he have to say. And was there any other important news. It would be great if someone could report these back.

A very good source has informed me that Eddie has been in contact with Vlad to try and set up a "Judd type" deal to Keep Cloke at the Filth. A supporter is prepared to "sponsor" him as a third party. This must not be allowed to occur. The AFL has already said no to us last year. Keep your eyes and ears open & if anything comes of it Vlad must resign. I hope the MFC are onto it.

Well done to Rivers. Coming 5th while spending half the season in a foreign role in a dead zone where the ball barely appears once a quarter. Very much hopes he stays, but if he leaves, this will help his FA value.

First announcement is that WebJet have signed on for another year... great news!

Please be Morton, please be Morton, please be Morton, please be Morton......

This is one of the worst posts I have ever seen Your logic is this - because Ablett and Watson were taken in the 40's 10 years ago (completely insignificant to whats happening in 2012, but thats another story), the Demons should let Viney go to Gold Coast because we arent going to get him with a 2nd rounder. Never mind the fact Viney is a clear top 5 talent. and pick 3 is a fair price for him. He is clearly better than 2 of the kids you listed, and Id have him equal with Whitfled and Toumpas. Go watch last years TAC cup grand final and then tell me he isnt a top 5 talent. And on top of that he is an animal with his attack on the footy and is a born leader. Cant wait til he lines up for the MFC in round 1 2013.

I'm fairly temperate and measured (most of the time) but if that boy doesn't play in Melbourne colours next year.....fair dinkum, I'll [censored] lose it!!!

I am not too bothered about picking up Caddy and think that taking someone like Oliver Wines with Viney would be a good move. Josh Toy is a guy that I actually taught and I really rate his character and skill. He is quite versatile and can play in the middle as well as down back. He has not gone well at Gold Coast mostly because he is homesick and because he has been dealing with the aftermath of coming to terms with the loss of his father. I think that he is a solid player, with a great 60 metre pinpoint kick who is much tougher than he has so far let on. He is also very mature and would not rock the boat in terms of the club culture.

Jones wins. That is all. 2012 is not mentioned again.

In answer to the questions, I don't really give a crap if the club is ruthless and vicious like Carlton or Collingwood, or a great big happy family like Sydney or Adelaide. All I want is a club with smart leaders that make intelligent decisions; and with that I expect success will take care of itself.

I can understand what Olisik is saying, ideally the club wants it to be 3,4,13, Viney, this is a great result for the club basically giving us 4 top 13 picks. However the MFC will use Pick 3 on Viney if they have to, there is no question about that. It isn't worth worrying about, we will use the pick we have to to get Jack Viney and come round 1 we will all be extremely glad he is playing for us.

I can see where you're coming from and respect your opinion but your central argument, I feel, further illustrates my point. The concern that "we are going to be the first team ever to be disadvantaged by our own father-son pick in the draft! Fact!" is indicative of our "poor bugger us" mindset. (What's your opinion on Ace Cordy?) The father son rule is relatively new to a very old game and the way I look at it a situation like this way always going to happen, of course it was, I just struggle to tolerate the some posters devastation that it has happened to us. The fact that some are unwilling to take him because we 'have to pay a little bit overs' is pathetic. This is a game and in games you play by the rules. I think it's great that we have access to JV and that we can trump other clubs if we want to.

If GC bid for Viney at #2 then that is the best indicator out there of his worth in the market. Which means if we get him at #3 then we will have paid unders for him.

I re-signed me and my kids. Not that slogan's matter to me but we could have gotten a picture of Ivan Drago from Rocky 3 and put Jack Viney's head on him with the quote "I must break you" underneath.

Ok, he is a top 5 pick anyway, just take him at 3 if GC nominate for him. We will then get who we wanted at 3 with pick 4. Come on fellas

Honestly, we have no ideea what the the situation with Viney will be.

Rivers in contract talks with the club - Neeld thinks that Riv needs to consider going to a club that's ready or staying. Sounded confident. Davey almost finished annual leave and doctor confident that the break in his foot healing well and he'll be ready for full training 29/10 - but is already training on the bike at the club. Expained the captain selection process and is rapt with the Jacks - sounded like Trenners has finished high in the b&f. Looks up the Hun daily to see who he's moved on and who's walked out. Explained the Jurrah situation really well. I like this bloke and he keeps rising in my estimation. Cool calm and collected.

I have a membership idea.... We should start winning games, maybe even a premiership, then we'd get heaps of members on board.

I like to think of Jesus as a CHF in a Demon jumper taking a strong grab 30m out straight in front. He's got long hair that glistens and I am 20 rows back in the pocket - hammered drunk.

There are some clubs that expect success. As a Carlton coach you know that it is demanded and if it's not forthcoming the sack isn't far away. Pokies king Bruce Matthieson, who was a Carlton Board member, screwed over Richmond by taking their machines away. Years ago Carlton tried to buy the North Melbourne Football Club. But they also got too big for their boots. Collingwood also won't tolerate a lack of success for too long. Tommy Hafey was sacked even though he got them into Grand Finals in 4 of 6 years. He didn't win one and that was the end. Let's face it, Malthouse got his marching orders, but then won an unexpected flag. Richmond were notoriously ruthless, but that merciless attitude has long left the club. Kennett tried to instill it at Hawthorn. He had a great coach in Clarkson, but he always kept him on his toes. Even though Kennett is a football dunce I quite liked the hard edge approach. I admire clubs that have a unrelenting air of expectation to them. But there's a hard edge and there's also stupidity. Some clubs get spooked into decisions, such as Port when they sacked Primus and some would say Melbourne when they sacked Bailey; a decision I agreed with, but could they have handled it better ? Junior was another example of poorly handling a delicate situation. Collingwood farewelled Buckley brilliantly, while Lance Whitnall was embarrassed by Carlton. I want a ruthless club, but I want one that consistently makes sound decisions and doesn't pander to the type of vocal nuffies that frequent here.

Also shows that we only see the 25% visible aspects of leadership - what our eyes witness on the groundon game day. We know nothing of the talk,encouragement, education and even chastisments on the ground, before the game, in the rooms and after the game.We have little visibility as to what they are doing during the week at training and even in social circumstances. In short we have little insight into the whole leadership window.

Nepotism? Isn't that what the Father/Son rule is all about?

It is unfair on everyone associated with the MFC if nepotism plays any role in our recruiting decisions (coaches, players and supporters). If Jack Viney is nominated and we consider there to be better talent available at our pick we should let him walk. This means we should only use pick 3 on Viney if he is considered to be in the top 2 of our rankings. Our best strategy would be to state this as our policy prior to 5 October 2012. We should also have Viney say in the media that he would be happy to play his first two years in the AFL anywhere, but then he intends to make his way back to Victoria. And that he would have no issues with not compensating the club which drafts him.

Yes we will, if that's what it takes.

Not if they want Tippett. I am sure Crows will tell them if they want Tippett, they better have pick 2 left to trade with.

Here is what I don't understand. Why doesn't he pull a Nik Nat? Come out publicly saying that he has lived around the country but that he want's to stay in Melbourne as he feels it's his home and he'll play his best here. The kid is going to play AFL and get drafted by someone so it's not like he's doing a disservice to his chances on draft day. That way GCS and GWS know that he'll ask to be traded home after 2 years if they chance their hand. It's not draft tampering by us as there is plenty of precedents of this by other players and I think it set's him up well as a future player for the club that he is 97% likely to play for anyway. He starts the relationship on the right foot.

I've been a huge critic of Dunn and won't lose sleep either way, but I lean towards retention. When it's been too hard for others he's still putting his bloody hand in the air and fighting it out. I've written him off more times than I care to count. But he has my grudging respect. He's soft in the air, BUT, he's definitely improved from the early days. Once upon a time it was glaring and all to regular, but it's not as noticeable now, despite the poor attempt in the final game of the year. Josh Hunt has had similar issues and has still been a valuable member at the Cats. I have plenty of others I'd move on ahead of him.

There's plenty of scope for a denial on that one actually.

Bang on What's transpired is that over the last few seasons (decades?) the tail has been wagging the dog, and that's not going to continue under Neeld. And some people want to go back to status quo? Why? It got us where exactly? There's been a lot wrong with the club over the years. The drafting. The development. The coaching. The (dare I use the cliche) culture. Neeld, Misson and Craig IMO are the 3 most important figures with respect of our on field fortunes. Neeld coached one of the best midfields of recent times to a flag at Collingwood, a club renowned for having elite fitness etc Misson helped with his injury management, the Swans to their first flag in over 70 years Craig left Adelaide with a strong, mature, highly disciplined list, primed for the new coach I'll take these guys advice over people who don't like seeing their favourites swept out the door

After Malthouse's first year at Collingwood when they won 5 games he delisted or traded 12 players. He delisted or traded another 6 after year two. That's 18 players he turned over in two years. They went on to play in 4 grand finals over the next 10 years. You do realise that after a terrible 5 year period that judgment calls are made on mediocre players ? Or do you want more of the same ?