Rebuild: the beginning

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Again Rhino, you're just reinforcing my argument. Bailey is building a team and a game plan around players in the under 23 bracket, who can't carry it out. Sylvia falls into the same category as Moloney I assume?

What's your vision of our list in the next 2 years? And it's a given that Neitz, Yze, White, McDonald and Holland would have retired, and Weetra and Warnock will probably be cut. Who will replace them?

No I am not Mo. Bailey is currently identifying which players he can rebuild with and which he cant. He is also seeking to identify where the gaps are in the list and where he needs to draft/ trade to improve the list. CC advised that process was in place some weeks ago. At seassons end some of the U23's will survive some wont and for good reason.

Jones can make it because he has got time to learn. Sylvia was recruited to be a hard head over the ball first dibs midfielder. He has a limited engine, a lack of football smarts in close and is not a first dibs. His past years of OP may have stalled his development but he is definitely treading water and has 18 rounds to show he has something. In five years we have seen little from him plus we get a player who is off field culture problem and that cant follow team discipline rules. His future is in his hands to show something. He has not so far and if he does not do better he is one player I would consider trading if there was a good deal.

The list will change measurably beyond the players you mentioned. Some of the players you mentioned at their peak would be hard to replace. Its a pity MFC list management did not foresee and appropriately address the problem. At the moment their lose would not be too great as none of the players you mentioned are contributing anything substantial to the team effort.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That's my point AOB. Bailey is playing with fire by building a team around players who don't have the physical prowess to play the way he want's them to. And with the advent of the 2 new teams, he won't get any relief in the drafts to come.

And you are right. In football terms there is a difference between quick and fast. Daniel Bell is fast but not quick.

Mo,

If DB wants to be successful and knows from his experience what has to be done on the ground and then comes into a Club which has a playing list with the gaping holes that it does, he does not have a choice but to rebuild. And given the state of the playing list there are no obvious easy or quick trades (no Everett on the list!) that he can benefit from. He is working out which of the players do and dont have it. And some wont

The 17 and 18 team is irrelevant to what has to be done. It only adds to the challenge ahead and acts a crutch for those who want to push their heads further into the sand.

[Rampaging Demons 1]

when jones bangs the ball onto his boot from a clearance and it goes 40 metres, it should be in our forward 50... where the forward should be playing in front - either mark or provide a contest and we have a crumber to tackle or take the crumbs.... that is simplistic but honest footy!!! his general disposal will get better, as he matures and gains support from those around him.... at the moment, he is trying to do everything!!

sylvia for me showed some signs yesterday why we need him to become a player... he is a penetrating kick on both feet, is strong overhead for his height and likes it hard and tough... as he gains fitness, expect to see him spend more and more time up the ground with the ability pinch hit from the goal square...

as much as it pains me, the two players that provided significant run and carry from our defence are no longer with us - daniel ward and nathan brown... yes they turned the ball over but they took on the lines with hard running and actually ran with the ball rather than stop start.... this year we have struggled to do this consistently!!

there will be more to go and we have seen what a talent cale morton is and will be for this footy club....

[beelzebub 23,313]

well ..this is a little bit of a beath of fresh air..of sorts.. Some sense at last being discussed.. and without any undeseved knifing of the fork !! ( sorry )

Not that I thought i had any particular insight or was alone..or whatever in my thinking but am very gladdened to notice it hasnt passed all by as to exactly what Bailey is doing.

Thats right its just wheat and chaff time. Said it elsewhere ..and othrs also agreed..( not that its my idea of course..lol ) but in order to rebuild...first work out what you realy have to work with. From exisitng first 22 ..youd need to be a fool or overly optimistic to say we have lots !! We have some...only some.. Bailey is simply testing and identifying them.

In many ways its irrelevant whether we win 1 , 2 or 6 games this year...or inded any !! Its a learning curve. The benefit is in the knowledge ...not any premeirship points. Many Demons are just going to have to learn how to cope with that ( many of us have had years of practice )

Thats why Bails isnt concerned...he's working off a longer plan to rebuild the club...not any wave of the wand like reincarnations in 4 weeks.

I will be quite open and frank to admit when Im attending any games this year its really to witness the subtle second level happenings.. the game within a game as it were. To see who's paying heed and learning.. to see who wil lbe there next year. Its almost like watchig a babe grwn with in a womb.. its not in public..but its there..you have to look.

Theres the old adage...if you give a person enough rope.. well folks Im sure that just what Bails is doing.. its rope all-round !! The decisions as to who to keep..who to develop...who to remould are all being made out there before your very eyes...there..and at TBO etc.

This year is a start.. its part of a longer many-year program to reinvigourate and consolidate a fighting machine . Others have said it.. and yet many dont listen... you need to weed before you sow and folks its Weedamania out there !!

I disagree with teh idea that the 17-18 effect can be dismissed so lightly. Its very likely that these teams may take what would possibly be some of the better picks that may normally befall us should normal events transpire.. By that I mean..look at the picks the recent cellar dwellars have had ove last ten years. If we are in rebuild then we will undoubtedly finish low and be up for those picks. Along comes the Spider ( AFL ) and takes them off us and others and hands them on a plate as sugar coated goodies for the newbies !! Well that cant be ignored.. If you do..you must have head in sand.

Bails, Cuddles.. Predergast ..Williams etc all have their work cut out..and yet strangely I have full confidence in this mob, more than other recent combos actually.

Dont despair fellow Dees... more burning off is required.,.but then out of the ashes will come a team !!

[Billy Baxter 0]

.....

Very well said!

[fired up 77]

I would like to know how many players have improved become harder, faster, more skilled, strong leadership qualites.The longer they stay the more they seem to lose.This is not to rubbish our past and present but who has actually got better and kept improving. Fair enough some have been limited by injury.This club must be successfull FINALS wise or by having a few guns in the side to promote new supporters and young kids wanting to support us. If not once all of us are gone and theres not many of us WERE ROOTED.

[DemonWorshipper 304]

After reading some of the other threads posted in the wake of the weekends loss, it's nice to see who has some idea of the bigger picture.

It doesn't completely make up for the pain that is being felt now, we are rock bottom and no one enjoys it as a supporter. Our handling errors have been a disgrace but a little confidence can go a long way! If a bit of perspective can help boot this home, a bit of pain may well seem to be worth it in a couple of years time!

[Demon16 69]

Our handling errors have been a disgrace but a little confidence can go a long way!

that is my biggest issue right now. we've got our problems with personnel, but we have skilled, proven, experienced footballers running around right now who can't find a target by hand within 3 mtrs. no matter what the fitness level, the gamplan, the coach says, it will never make a difference until these players can find basic targets. i have no idea why jeff white handball's to the ground 1 mtr behind a teamate who is 2 mtrs away, but i know that a) he isn't that bad and B ) it's not bailey's fault. i don't think WE are that bad, i think our players are alot better than they are being given credit for, and alot better than what they are showing right now. i'm not sure if bailey's gameplan is right or wrong because i haven't seen the players implement it, all i have seen is guys continually turn the ball over with poor skill. i'm slightly concerned that we lack intensity when we have a new coach who the players should want to impress at least in his first year, and that our skills are soo poor since we were all told the balls came out early in pre-season. i'm hoping it is just a lack of confidence and once we gain some we might be able to have a real look at the gameplan.

[gOLLy 401]

Finally a thread worth reading. Intelligence and sense is whats been missing from here for a long time.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Look, I'm the first to agree with you. But how long has this been going on. We 'rebuilded' the club during Barassi's 5 year plan. Swooper got us to the pointy end in the finals. After that he said that he couldnt get any more out of the playing group with the talent they had. He was our best coach since Norm Smith. I pencilled in 10 or 11 win definate wins this year and had us 2-2 at this point. The playing group to be a premiership side has gone and the next competitive phase wont be for another 7 seven years. Tough i know but you have to be realistic.

"He was our best coach since Norm Smith." Rubbish. He gave the players that Barassi/Jordan developed, some confidance & let them play on their ability that was previosly taught to them.

- - "to the pointy end in the finals. After that he said that he couldnt get any more out of the playing group with the talent they had." WHY DIDN'T HE DEVELOPE SOME KIDS WHEN HE WAS THERE????????

Then he may have had some more talent to draw from!

[mo64 5,853]

"He was our best coach since Norm Smith." Rubbish. He gave the players that Barassi/Jordan developed, some confidance & let them play on their ability that was previosly taught to them.

- - "to the pointy end in the finals. After that he said that he couldnt get any more out of the playing group with the talent they had." WHY DIDN'T HE DEVELOPE SOME KIDS WHEN HE WAS THERE????????

Then he may have had some more talent to draw from!

FFS, isn't that the role of a coach? And how was he supposed to "develop some kids when he was there", when the under 19's had just been scrapped, and the draft was in full effect. Balme had a far more talented side in 1994, which included Neitz, Schwarz and Charles, who were all products of our under 19's, when Northey was there.

Northey is easily the best coach we have had since Norm Smith.

[Paul Gardner 6]

FFS, isn't that the role of a coach? And how was he supposed to "develop some kids when he was there", when the under 19's had just been scrapped, and the draft was in full effect. Balme had a far more talented side in 1994, which included Neitz, Schwarz and Charles, who were all products of our under 19's, when Northey was there.

Northey is easily the best coach we have had since Norm Smith.

"Northey is easily the best coach"..Crap! Sacked @ every club he coached & couldn't get another gig after.

A good ordinary coach.

[Nasher 33,607]

In fairness to Northey, his next two clubs were Richmond and Brisbane, both utter basket cases on the field at the time.

[9. David Neitz 0]

"Northey is easily the best coach"..Crap! Sacked @ every club he coached & couldn't get another gig after.

A good ordinary coach.

What an absolute load of garbage, Swooper was an excellent coach, he left Melbourne and Richmond, he was not sacked.

[Paul Gardner 6]

In fairness to Northey, his next two clubs were Richmond and Brisbane, both utter basket cases on the field at the time.

No Nasher, they were before Melb.

[Nasher 33,607]

No Nasher, they were before Melb.

No, he went to Richmond and then the Bears _after_ Melbourne. He and Walls essentially swapped positions.

I wouldn't have known if it was before us, because he was the MFC coach when I started following football and I remember his departure.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

John Northey's record. W/L/D

Sydney 1985 - 6/16

Melbourne 1986-1992 - 90/76/1

Richmond 1993-1995 - 32/34/1

Brisbane 1996-1998 - 29/28/2

I think he did get sacked from his last 3 clubs.

[Rogue 585]

I pencilled in 10 or 11 win definate wins this year and had us 2-2 at this point. The playing group to be a premiership side has gone and the next competitive phase wont be for another 7 seven years. Tough i know but you have to be realistic.

Why did you think we'd win 50+% of our games? We were primed to have many players in our 22 that are young and inexperienced at AFL level, coupled with experienced players that are over the hill. I don't mean this as a stab at your prediction of our season, but I've thought we were over-rated in '06 and have probably only got worse - when it comes to the here and now, but better for the future - right at this moment.

If we are in rebuild then we will undoubtedly finish low and be up for those picks. Along comes the Spider ( AFL ) and takes them off us and others and hands them on a plate as sugar coated goodies for the newbies !! Well that cant be ignored.. If you do..you must have head in sand.

Sure. it might be hurt, but when you say that can't be ignored, what are you suggesting we do?

It reminds me of the 'be alert, but not alarmed' terror ads...

By following these guidelines you improve the readibility of this thread for others and reduce the amount of server space that is taken up and is costly to the owners of this site who are not employed by the Club and fund this site voluntarily.

It's been brought up before, and I totally agree with people not quoting great slabs of text (probably don't need the '....' either, just an empty quotebox). However, the server space taken up by a longer post is so close to nothing it's not worth considering.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Not really suggesting there is that much we can do. Its is something to be aware of and possibly the club may need to add weight to any of its concerns or arguments to the AFL regarding the 17-18 teams to reflect such. Lets not give them any more than we have to give whilst screaming and fighting !! Let the other 15 clubs be magnificent in their gestures. For me think Melbourne..all others are a very distant 2nd

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It's been brought up before, and I totally agree with people not quoting great slabs of text (probably don't need the '....' either, just an empty quotebox). However, the server space taken up by a longer post is so close to nothing it's not worth considering.

It all helps to encourage posters to consider the readibility of the posts.

[Guest fatty]

John Northey was sacked from Sydney as they were looking for a higher profile coach in an emerging market. Hafey took over.

He left Melbourne on "mutual agreement". It was conceded by both parties that the message wasn't getting through anymore.

He took the Tiges to the preliminary final in 1995 (first appearance since 1982 GF) and left in abrupt circumstances shrouded in mystery. Think he resigned before being sacked.

The Brisbane Lions made the finals in 1997 under Northey but a terrible run with injuries in 1998 resulted in his sacking.

Pretty good results. I rate him the 2nd best MFC coach in the modern era. Dennis Jones is streets ahead.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No, he went to Richmond and then the Bears _after_ Melbourne. He and Walls essentially swapped positions.

I wouldn't have known if it was before us, because he was the MFC coach when I started following football and I remember his departure.

Sorry Mate, my memory was the same as you but reversed. Hrrmmn. Yep.