Which draftee do you like?

[sylvinator 96]

Palmer wont be that good. One good game in the championships doesn't mean you'll turn out a superstar - Fergus Watts. Palmer doesn't seem to have any strengths that will dominate at AFL level; not the tall, big, quick, exceptional disposal etc.

Definately will be drafted but i dont think is worthy of using the dees number 4 pick on.

your perception of Palmer is misinformed...

he did not simply play one good match...he has been consistently getting big possies this entire season, and has especially kicked on since the championships with a number of very dominant games.

is a definite top 10 pick, could even go as high as pick 3 and i would not be dissapointed if we take him at pick 4...however i agree he is probably more worth pick 7-10 (if only we could somehow get a 2nd top 10 pick!

btw, i think people should remember one thing. Phantom drafts are not always accurate. The people who know the most about the young kidz are 100% the recruiting scouts like CAC. they go out and watch these kidz play every week! they know more than anyone of this board or bigfooty forum...so whoever we pick up we can trust that CAC has the inside knowledge and picked him for a reason.

just to prove my point...

i have been following phantom drafts closely for the last 3-4 years...(i love the speculation and rumours)

When Mclean was drafted pick 5, nearly every phantom draft had him pick 12-15. people straight after the draft believed we picked him up too high. yet within 12 months it was clear he was a clear top 5 pick and imo was the best player drafted that year by a long way. a future star and captain of our club...

Another example is Pendlebry. He was picked up at 5 (i believe) when most predicted him to go around 10-13 and no higher. with his basketball background people saw him as a risk for such a high pick...he is an absolute star in the making...

so people should enjoy phantom drafts and speculation, but know that at the end of the day CAC knows best and has a great track record at picking up guns.

for me, if Kruiser, Cotchin and Morton go 1-2-3 i would definitely take Henderson. Not often do u get an opportunity to take clearly the best KPP in a draft...my next best options are Ebert or Rance.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

btw, i think people should remember one thing. Phantom drafts are not always accurate. The people who know the most about the young kidz are 100% the recruiting scouts like CAC. they go out and watch these kidz play every week! they know more than anyone of this board or bigfooty forum...so whoever we pick up we can trust that CAC has the inside knowledge and picked him for a reason.

Absolutely correct.

just to prove my point...

.....

When Mclean was drafted pick 5, nearly every phantom draft had him pick 12-15. people straight after the draft believed we picked him up too high. yet within 12 months it was clear he was a clear top 5 pick and imo was the best player drafted that year by a long way. a future star and captain of our club...

Unfortunately it does not and your proof is bollocks.

Nearly every phantom draft I saw had McLean in the first half dozen. He was drafted where he was expected to drafted. With the exception of this year, he has exceeded expectations without a doubt. But the best in that draft...your kidding??

Better than Cooney? I doubt it. Where does McLean stand against Adcock (#33 in the draft) nominated in the 2007 AA and Shaw (#48 ) who just missed out after a ripper year.

[sylvinator 96]

Absolutely correct.

Unfortunately it does not and your proof is bollocks.

Nearly every phantom draft I saw had McLean in the first half dozen. He was drafted where he was expected to drafted. With the exception of this year, he has exceeded expectations without a doubt. But the best in that draft...your kidding??

Better than Cooney? I doubt it. Where does McLean stand against Adcock (#33 in the draft) nominated in the 2007 AA and Shaw (#48 ) who just missed out after a ripper year.

i rate Mclean higher than Cooney, Adcock and Shaw. you may think im just biased demon supporter but it's not such a radical call.

Mclean had a mediocre season, true, but last season he ripped it up and anyone following his career would know that this season was crueled by injuries and is not a true indicator.

Cooney: inconsistent and overated. Mclean is a better player. Cooney shows zero leadership ability...Mclean is future captain.

Adcock: had a far far far better season than Mclean. No doubt! he is a great player, i really rate him dont get me wrong. however in the long-run i see Mclean as a better overall player with a bigger upside with Mclean's leadership giving him the edge.

Shaw: r u hoenstly telling me u think Shaw is a better player than Mclean. You really think Shaw was the best player drafted that year. if so, ur argument is bollocks.

who is better is obv subjective and arguable...

none the less, McLean WAS tipped to be pick 10-15 in most phantom drafts. i followed them that year religiously bc we had 2 top 5 picks

[sylvinator 96]

oh and since you seem so sure that phandom drafts didnt rate Mclean a top 5

Matt Burgan is a highly credible maker of phantom drafts. his phantom draft pretty much reflected what most ppl felt pre draft. go to bigfooty search options if you want more, but this is through afl.com.au

http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/News...spx?newsId=5519

Burgatron IV: 2003 Phantom Draft

12:00 AM Thu 20 November, 2003 | Back

Matt Burgan

Exclusive to AFL BigPond Network

13. Essendon – Brock McLean

(Calder Cannons) 11 March 1986, 183.4cm, 86kg

One of the most interesting selections of this year’s National AFL Draft will be the whereabouts of McLean. The strong inside midfielder has been touted as a candidate for Melbourne at No.5, Essendon at No.6, St Kilda at No.8 and the Kangaroos at No.9, but with several other players in the mix, he could be in a similar position to Fremantle’s Byron Schammer, who slipped down the pecking order to No.13 in last year’s draft. There is no doubting his quality, as evidenced with his best-on-ground display for the Cannons in this year’s TAC Cup grand final victory over the Bushrangers. A fine leader both on and off the field, McLean has the ability to bring teammates into play and this was particularly evident at the National AFL Draft camp, when he was urging on Calder teammate and captain Adam Bentick during the grueling beep test. During the camp, McLean also finished in the top 10 per cent for the 3km time-trial. The nephew of former Carlton and Richmond tough-nut Ricky, he was an AIS/AFL academy representative and gained All-Australian status at the National AFL under 18 championships in 2003. Don’t be surprised if Northern Knights midfielder Brent Stanton is also in the mix for the Dons at No.13.

[Mousey 47]

In CAC we Trust!

[Geddy Lee 582]

Better than Cooney? I doubt it. Where does McLean stand against Adcock (#33 in the draft) nominated in the 2007 AA and Shaw (#48 ) who just missed out after a ripper year.

The only thing that isn't contentious is that that draft was absolutely sheizen.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The only thing that isn't contentious is that that draft was absolutely sheizen.

Its been generally average so far. But gee its 4 years old.

[DV8 2,271]

Here are some profiles of the AIS scholarship holders.

By having a look at each profile..who do you like the look of?

Cotchin: http://www.ais.org.au/austrules/cotchin.asp

Ebert: http://www.ais.org.au/austrules/ebert.asp

Cale Morton: http://www.ais.org.au/austrules/morton.asp

Henderson: http://www.ais.org.au/austrules/henderson.asp

Gaertner: http://www.ais.org.au/austrules/gaertner.asp

Some info on the taller draft picks courtesy of Big Footy..... (Borrowed from saintsational)

Matt Kreuzer-199cm, 91kg-Northern Knights. (ruck) The most talked about player in the draft and for pretty good reason. His tap work is good but he holds his own more than dominates. It is around the ground where his class shows. He simply moves around like another midfielder. Has clean hands and good skills and can tackle. Has great running ability and gets to contests all around the ground. To put it plainly guys his size who can play like midfielders are too good to pass up.

Top 5 pick.

Alex Rance-194cm, 87kg-Swan Districts. ( CHB/FB). The star defender of the National champs. His run out of defence was great. His defensive work was excellent. Has good pace and skills for a big bloke. He worked in well with Browne and Meyers to give WA the killer dash from defence. His handballing was creative and he hits targets by foot. He is simply a defender that every club will rate.

Top 15 pick.

Ben McEvoy-199cm, 90kg-Murray Bushrangers. (Ruck, fwd) He has been on the radar for a while and has had good form this year. He was one of Country’s best performers during the champs playing in the ruck and up forward. He looks to have good endurance and moves around the ground well but he is not blessed with a lot of pace. His ruckwork is pretty good and he can read the play. His kicking skills are very good and he can take a good contested mark. He is the type of ruckman that can ruck for a good portion of the match. Where he goes in the draft will be interesting.

Pick 10 to 30

Tom Collier – 192cm, 86kg-Lauderdale TAS. ( RR/CHB). I have Tom in my midfield review as well but he has to be in the backs too given he has played a lot at CHB. Not sure if he will have the height to be an outright KP player but he certainly can play the running half back role and his defensive skills are good. Uses the footy well. Reads the game well. There is no doubt clubs will like his ability to play back or in the middle.

Top 25 pick.

Tate Pears-192cm, 90kg-East Perth-(CHB/HBF). Played at CHB for WA in the champs and played well. Like Collier is probably a bit short of the prototype CHB but he simply gets the job done. Plays tight but knows when to run off. Like his team mates he gave WA great run from defence. He has shown he can spoil well and has played forward at times with East Perth colts and kicked a goal.

Pick 15 to 40.

Thomas Bellchambers-199cm, 91kg-Northern Bombers. (Ruck). Tasmania’s number one ruckman who’s tap work during the champs was very good. Gets in good positions to hit the ball to his team mates but he can be prone to hitting to nothing spots at times. He has a bit or work to do as far as his around the ground stuff goes. He can take a nice mark and kicks the footy ok for a big bloke. I think someone will take a punt on him simply because of his tap skills.

Pick 20 to 50.

Lachie Henderson-196cm, 90kg-Geelong Falcons.(Fwd). Hard to line up this year because he has been injured and missed a lot of the season. Played some good footy last year and he was good around the ground and a good mark. Played pretty well in last years TAC Cup finals which pretty much has to be the guide as he has only played two games this year for the Falcons and I have only seen one of them. He has played in the ruck a bit so far but I don’t think he has the height or leap to be an AFL ruckman. His kicking is good for a big bloke. I am not really sure where he will go in the draft.

Pick 15 to 40

Darcy Daniher – 192cm, 80kg-Calder Cannons. (CHB) Darcy has been played forward and back, sometimes in the same game, all year in the TAC Cup. When he has played forward he has shown he can kick goals. Can take a good grab and he is a free flowing runner who moves around the ground well. During the Champs he played mainly in defence and although he was not a stand out he did play pretty well. His kicking is pretty strong and he hits targets pretty well. Has had a lot of games where he has had 15 to 20 disposals which isn’t bad for a big bloke. Hasn’t really been outstanding too often but has played solid footy all the way through.

Pick 20 to 50.

Steve Gaertner-196cm, 83kg-Dandenong Stingrays. (Fwd). Interesting player this bloke. In the games I have seen him play he has certainly looked very athletic with good pace for a big man and pretty good skills. The problem with him when I have been watching is he often looks like he is going to take a game apart only to fade out of the game. Looks like he is on fire but it only last 10 minutes or so. When he is on song he can take a strong grab.

Pick 20 to 50.

Scott Simpson-194cm, 91kg-Dandenong Stingrays. (Fwd). Good contested marking forward who is a reasonable goal kicker. He has played a bit in the ruck as well but I am not sure he will be big enough to ruck at AFL level. Like Gaertner he looks like he is about to tear a game apart at times but it never really seems to happen. The way he moves around and plays I think he has a huge upside if he can find some consistency.

Pick 20 to 40.

Andrew Renton-202cm, 94kg-Eastern Rangers. (Ruck). Good size ruckman who has done well for Rangers this year. His tap work is good but he could learn to better direct some of his hit outs. He also has to learn that he must jump at all the ruck contests as he sometimes tries to rely on just his height. When he actually does jump at a contest he looks very good. He is a good mark and his kicking is reliable but he needs to do more around the ground and he wanders from contest to contest a lot of the time rather than getting involved. Can take a grab and kick a goal when he is up forward. Someone will take a punt on him and hope they can get his work rate up to match his raw talent.

Pick 25 to 60.

James Mulligan-201cm, 96kg-Southport. (Ruck). I have only seen him play three games and he hasn’t really done a lot but in small patch’s he has shown some raw talent. He is mobile. He can kick the footy a mile and can take a mark. Doesn’t do nearly enough around the ground or in the ruck for that matter. Like Renton I think someone will take a chance with him simply because of the raw product.

Pick 40 plus.

Dave Gourdis-193cm, 88kg-Subiaco. (CHF) Impressed for WA at CHF during the champs. Good sized kid who was very mobile and a good shot at gaol. Kicking skills are pretty good and he was prepared to work hard to present as a target. Seemed to read the play very well and knew where to lead so he could get himself in the game.

Pick 10 to 40.

Dan McKenna-194cm, 82kg-Gippsland Power. (FWD / BCK). Has had a bit of an up and down year playing in a strong side. Has been used at CHF and CHB during the year. Had some good early form as a key forward but it has dropped of a little as the season has gone on. Had a reasonable time at the Champs without being a star. Has shown some sort of ability to read the play as a back man and he can spoil well if needed. Is pretty lightly built at the moment.

Pick 25 to 60.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/viewtop...6d9baae51488e2d

[grazman 7,436]

I'm not a recruiter, and I suspect that there aren't many on this site. But I've been around these sites long enough to know that the pre-draft hype from the media and supporters does not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the club recruiters themselves. Especially this far out from the draft.

Just because the papers have been talking about Kreuzer (as they have since about round 5) doesn't mean that that is what's going to happen.

I'm not saying he isn't going to be pick 1, but there's a chance that he won't be. The way Ratten spoke sounded a little like a forewarning to Carlton supporters by trying build up Cotchin and ignoring Kreuzer.

And who here knows anything about the kids except for what they've seen other people write?

You get one person say something and, because nobody else has seen these kids play much, everyone else just agrees and regurgitates what these people have said. Then everyone gets a favourite from what they've heard. Then everyone moans after the draft that their favourite wasn't picked even though he was available, while also moaning that the one we did pick wasn't touted as highly by the 'experts' and "would have been available much later". Then they forget about it by round 5 the next year.

It happens every year. Watch it happen.

The most pithy and accurate thing I have ever read on this site regarding drafting Bob... absolute Gold!

[Demon Disciple 12,127]

First of all. 1 good game?..he played 3 awesome games for the championships.

There were also 4 trial games leading up to the Championships, in which he averaged 31 possessions. So that's 7 really good games in a row. There are around 7-8 kids that are legitimate top 5 picks. He is top 5 material.

[Jarka 767]

I'm not a recruiter, and I suspect that there aren't many on this site. But I've been around these sites long enough to know that the pre-draft hype from the media and supporters does not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the club recruiters themselves. Especially this far out from the draft.

Just because the papers have been talking about Kreuzer (as they have since about round 5) doesn't mean that that is what's going to happen.

I'm not saying he isn't going to be pick 1, but there's a chance that he won't be. The way Ratten spoke sounded a little like a forewarning to Carlton supporters by trying build up Cotchin and ignoring Kreuzer.

And who here knows anything about the kids except for what they've seen other people write?

You get one person say something and, because nobody else has seen these kids play much, everyone else just agrees and regurgitates what these people have said. Then everyone gets a favourite from what they've heard. Then everyone moans after the draft that their favourite wasn't picked even though he was available, while also moaning that the one we did pick wasn't touted as highly by the 'experts' and "would have been available much later". Then they forget about it by round 5 the next year.

It happens every year. Watch it happen.

Interesting theory, when was the last time the favourite didn't go at number 1?

2006 - Gibbs, umm no, he was the favourite

2005 - Murphy, once again the fav

2004 - Deledio, you guess it

2003 - Adam Cooney, ok this is getting boring

2002 - Bendon Goddard, yawn

2001 - Ludge Hodge - Finally, this was the last uncertain number one, Judd or Ball could have gone here.

Have you ever seen Kreuzer play? No club would pass on him because it's just far too risky, a player of that size with that amount of agility is as rare as they come. Ratten is just wanting the put some doubt into the other clubs, but they'll take him just liek everyone knew they were going to take Murphy and Gibbs.

[Pipefitter 2,159]

when is the draft anyways?

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

Jarka, I'm not here to say that he's not going to go pick 1. I'm saying there's a chance that he won't. Remember that it's still a few months until the actual draft and a lot can change. I have only seen a little bit of Kruezer and, while he does many things very well, he's not the complete package everyone says he is. He's a very good player but remember that Josh Fraser was a "once in a generation player".

The point is that nobody here knows much about the players and is just going on second hand information. I can read profiles and look for things that I like, but unless I watch them I don't know if they're any good.

So when people come on here and actually claim to know about each player it annoys me because I know that they're full of crap.

[QueenC 74]

when is the draft anyways?

The AFL wishes to advise the following key dates as part of the 2007 NAB AFL Draft Process:

Tuesday Oct 2 - Friday Oct 5

NAB AFL Draft Camp

Saturday Oct 6

Victorian State Screening Session

Monday Oct 8 to 2pm Friday Oct 12

Exchange Period

Saturday Oct 13

South Australian State Screening Session

Sunday Oct 14

Western Australian State Screening Session

Wednesday Oct 31 (2pm)

List Lodgement One, including rookie promotions, retained second year rookies and father / son selections

Wednesday Nov 14 (2pm)

Draft Nominations Close

Friday Nov 16 (2pm)

List Lodgement Two

Wednesday Nov 21 (2pm)

Delisted Player Nominations Close

Saturday Nov 24 (10am)

NAB AFL Draft Selection Meeting

Tuesday Nov 27 (2pm)

Uncontracted Listed Player Nominations Close

Friday Nov 30 (2pm)

List Lodgement Three and TPP Estimates

Friday Dec 7 (2pm)

Delisted Player Nominations Close

Tuesday Dec 11 (10am)

NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting

Tuesday Dec 11 (10.15am)

Nomination of Brisbane Lions and Sydney eligible rookie list players

Tuesday Dec 11 (10.30am)

NAB AFL Rookie Draft Selection Meeting

[drdrake 3,163]

I'm still of the opinion that we need to draft a fast skillful midfielder, the three choices seem to be Morton, Palmer or Ebert assuming Cochin is taken in the top three.

Saying that though good KPP are like gold, look at the tale of three clubs, Richmond, Hawthorn and the Bulldogs, Richmond and the Doggies have focused on using early picks for fast midfielders where the Hawks with early picks have got KPP, IMO the Hawks have the much better list by far.

MIdfielders are avaliable through out the draft and good ones can be selected later, but good KPP don't usually get through the top 10, therefore Henderson and Rance could be the way to go. Up to you CAC

[issarab 0]

With Pick 4, we have an opportunity to get an absolute gun. wat type of player is up to Bailey and CAC.

So the question is, who do we have to pick from.

The top 3 looks likely to be Kruiser, Cotchin and Morton. all 3 are outstanding prospects. if one of those slips through to 4, we should definitely take him. but lets assume thats the top 3...

we could choose

a) the next best midfielder behind Cotchin and Morton: this is Ebert no doubt for me. Palmer and Masten are also very close behind and would not be silly selections at pick 4. none of these 3 will slip past pick 8.

B) The best true ruckman (Kruiser is a gun/but in terms of rucking ability, is not the best available. he is more of a 199cm rover): This is definitely McEvoy. he would be a good choice at pick 4 because he will fill up a big problem for MFC and become a 10 yr ruckman we desperately need to replace white. The only problem is that pick 4 is too high a pick for him imo. he is probably worth pick 9-10.

c) The best Key Forward: This is Henderson. I think we should go for him. how often does a team get to pick the best key position prospect in a draft!!! would be an awesome pick up. he would definitely become a quality KPP for us and would take CHF or CHB. both of these positions need filling badly so also fills a requirement.

d) the best key defender: This is Rance. he would be a great pick up. most see him as a top 8 pick, with some seeing him as a top5 pick. He will be awesome key defender and along with Frawley and River would ensure we finally can develop a strong defense. We despereately need a big key defender to go along with carrol, Rivers and Frawley bc none of them are capable of shutting down the best key forwards in the game. Rance could be our man, but i suspect pick 4 is a little too high for him. probably more worth pick 8-9. still he would not be a silly pick up.

So, whoever we pick up, whether it be a midfiedler, ruck, key back or key forward we are getting a really exciting prospect who could fill a big gap in our side.

i am hoping for henderson or hopefully Morton, but any of those are great pick ups.

embarrassement of riches to choose from in the top 10-15 picks this year.

it would be really awesome if we could somehow get 2 top10 picks somehow through trading (of Johnstone/Bruce).

I know it would mean giving up quality...but if we had 2 top10 picks then we could pick up a quality Midfielder and KPP. unfortunately if we only have pick 4, if we get an extra gun midfielder we need, we will still be lacking in KPP or visa versa...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Jarka, I'm not here to say that he's not going to go pick 1. I'm saying there's a chance that he won't. Remember that it's still a few months until the actual draft and a lot can change. I have only seen a little bit of Kruezer and, while he does many things very well, he's not the complete package everyone says he is. He's a very good player but remember that Josh Fraser was a "once in a generation player".

The point is that nobody here knows much about the players and is just going on second hand information. I can read profiles and look for things that I like, but unless I watch them I don't know if they're any good.

So when people come on here and actually claim to know about each player it annoys me because I know that they're full of crap.

Nutshell comment Bob. A perfect summation about the draft discussions on supporter sites.

A very apt comment about Josh Fraser too.

[Pipefitter 2,159]

What number do you think McEvoy will go at? He just kicked seven goals on the weekend, can play most positions...

[issarab 0]

I AGREE WITH SYLVINATOR KNOWING A LOT ABOUT HENDERSON HE LIVES IN THE SAME TOWN AS ME BIRREGURRA (famous for a former great melb player Alan Rowath) I HAVE SEEN HIM PLAY KNOW HIS FAMILY HE HAS A GREAT ATTITUDE HE IS VERY IMPOSING ON THE FIELDDEDICATED SUPRISINGLY QUICK AND LIKE HIS MOTHER VERY STRONG HE HAS THE SAME BUILD AS HAWKINS HIS KICKING NEEDS A BIT BUT CAN TAKE A PACK MARK WOULD BE AN IDEAL REPLACEMENT FOR NETA YOU WOULD BE VERY IMPRESSED ONLY ONE PROBLEM HE BARRACKS FOR COLLINGWOOD HIS PARENTS HOPE THAT MELB PICKS HIM UP

[Jarka 767]

So when people come on here and actually claim to know about each player it annoys me because I know that they're full of crap.

How do you know this?

I'll take bigfooty as an example (because it's the most popular). I agree that 99% of the posts are just the same old views regurgitated around and around, however that are a few regulars who really know their stuff, ie mojo (doesn't post on bigfooty anymore, occasionally on puntroadend though) weaver, footyman. These guys go to many games and their writeups are very insightful, similiar to that Collingwood fan who we read his posts on here from time to time (forget his name)

Ant555 is another example, these are some of his threads that he does descriptions of potential recruits

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360062

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359260

They really know their stuff, so don't be too quick to make assumptions that all are blithering idiots. Sure they're not going to be completely accurate with all of their opinions but no recruiting manager can lay claim to that either. Even CAC has made and will make mistakes. Just because someone at a club has an opinion on something doesn't make it correct.

On a personal level I make no claims to having much knowledge on the topic either, I do however know some junior coaches who has seen alot of these kids play and I trust their judgment.

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

And how many of those posters you mentioned write on this thread, or at Demonland?

All the people who have come on here, so far, and are saying comments like "no team would pass on him (Kreuzer)", mean nothing because they are simply going on regurgitated information from the likes of mojo, Weaver and footyman. The game watchers may have reasons for rating them the way they do, but the others are just hoping they are right. Look at their respective phantom drafts and watch how they change over the course of the season. Then look at a phantom draft being done now and rate it compared with their next phantom draft a week away from the actual draft. Then compare them to the actual draft.

It annoys me when people say 'player X will go first', because they have no basis for making that claim. Everyone just plays follow the leader and says what the last person said. And everyone then thinks that they are right because that's what everyone else said too.

There are judges whose opinion on kids I rate highly. None of them go from second hand information, but instead they actually watch them. None of them have offered player thoughts in this thread.

[Demons 32 235]

And how many of those posters you mentioned write on this thread, or at Demonland?

All the people who have come on here, so far, and are saying comments like "no team would pass on him (Kreuzer)", mean nothing because they are simply going on regurgitated information from the likes of mojo, Weaver and footyman. The game watchers may have reasons for rating them the way they do, but the others are just hoping they are right. Look at their respective phantom drafts and watch how they change over the course of the season. Then look at a phantom draft being done now and rate it compared with their next phantom draft a week away from the actual draft. Then compare them to the actual draft.

It annoys me when people say 'player X will go first', because they have no basis for making that claim. Everyone just plays follow the leader and says what the last person said. And everyone then thinks that they are right because that's what everyone else said too.

There are judges whose opinion on kids I rate highly. None of them go from second hand information, but instead they actually watch them. None of them have offered player thoughts in this thread.

Ever think a few people on here mayb be 17, 18, 19 years old and have played against, know, seen at junior level in there life time. Alot of people are their bloody age and are in their age group at footy!!!!!!!!!

[Guest The Tiger Of Old]

It annoys me when people say 'player X will go first', because they have no basis for making that claim.

I'm sorry if this annoys you but Kreuzer will be pick number 1.

He is the stand-out & deserves to go at number 1.

Furthermore, Carlton need a player like Kreuzer on their list.

They have Murphy, Gibbs, & Walker.

These guys will all be all-australian in years to come. That's 3 midfielders.

They require Kreuzer for list development.

So yes, Kreuzer WILL go number 1 & that's all there is to say.

People say he will go 1st is due to the fact he is the best player in the draft.

[Jarka 767]

And how many of those posters you mentioned write on this thread, or at Demonland?

All the people who have come on here, so far, and are saying comments like "no team would pass on him (Kreuzer)", mean nothing because they are simply going on regurgitated information from the likes of mojo, Weaver and footyman. The game watchers may have reasons for rating them the way they do, but the others are just hoping they are right. Look at their respective phantom drafts and watch how they change over the course of the season. Then look at a phantom draft being done now and rate it compared with their next phantom draft a week away from the actual draft. Then compare them to the actual draft.

It annoys me when people say 'player X will go first', because they have no basis for making that claim. Everyone just plays follow the leader and says what the last person said. And everyone then thinks that they are right because that's what everyone else said too.

There are judges whose opinion on kids I rate highly. None of them go from second hand information, but instead they actually watch them. None of them have offered player thoughts in this thread.

How could you possibly know that everyone who has posted in this thread knows sweet F/A? You're making a generalisation with nothing to back it up.

I know for certain that at least one of those guys I've previously mentioned has posted on this site under a different name, I also know that some junior coaches read club forums, including demonland, and sometimes contributes to discussions.

Bob, the only point I'm trying to make is not to be too quick to make blanket judgements with no evidence on a group of people you know nothing about.

[old55 23,573]

How could you possibly know that everyone who has posted in this thread knows sweet F/A? You're making a generalisation with nothing to back it up.

I know for certain that at least one of those guys I've previously mentioned has posted on this site under a different name, I also know that some junior coaches read club forums, including demonland, and sometimes contributes to discussions.

Bob, the only point I'm trying to make is not to be too quick to make blanket judgements with no evidence on a group of people you know nothing about.

The only people whose opinions matter are Hughes, Miller (unless he's been replaced) and Cameron - all the rest is speculation.

I saw on this thread some reference to Ratten's opinion - his opinion would/should be advisory at most - it's the recruiter's job to select the draft talent.